Poll: Is marriage forever?

[Audrey]

I can't either. I really, really, want you to know that a true strong man does not say this kind of thing. I mentioned this to my husband and "appalled" does not begin to describe his reaction. I suspect that if your husband's friends knew that he does this kind of thing they'd be appalled too.

 

 

Absolutely! You are the latest of SEVERAL posters who have shown this to our husbands and our husbands were all appalled.

 

I hope that Dawn can see in all of this that it is not normal, nor is it excusable. MANY men have chimed in (through their wives) to say that this is wrong, wrong, wrong. Good, loving husbands do NOT say those kinds of things to their wives.

[KidsHappen]

He thinks I'm weird to have a problem with what he said. He also thinks we are well-matched. I told him other women would have a problem with what he said if their husbands said it to them, and he said we all settle when we choose someone -- that I settled too.

 

I just watched a documentary on Netflix called The Science of Sexual Attraction and one of the points that it makes is that repeated studies have shown that people almost universally pair with someone of equal attractiveness to themselves. If you are using a ten point scale, people generally end up with someone within one point of themselves as rated by the individuals themselves and other people as well. It was a fascinating. You should check it out.

[Mom0012]

Thank you. No, it was said a few months ago when Aaron began looking for female companionship. He said Aaron has a lot to offer a woman, so he won't have to settle like he did. John always brags about my character, my intelligence, etc., so I asked for clarification. It was referring to my appearance. He said, "we don't plant ugly flowers, what's wrong with wanting a beautiful woman?"

 

I said, "I don't think you settled at all. I think I am quite a catch (I wasn't referring to merely the physical -- I just meant in general, I feel I have a lot to offer a person."

 

He replied, "Yeah, that's why no one wanted you. You were 25 and the only one that wanted you was a divorced 38 year old with a kid. I was mature enough to choose based on what's most important."

 

Well, I strongly disagree with your husband. I think you are beautiful and he just has some problem that has nothing to do with you.

 

Lisa

[MamaSheep]

Thank you. No, it was said a few months ago when Aaron began looking for female companionship. He said Aaron has a lot to offer a woman, so he won't have to settle like he did. John always brags about my character, my intelligence, etc., so I asked for clarification. It was referring to my appearance. He said, "we don't plant ugly flowers, what's wrong with wanting a beautiful woman?"

 

I said, "I don't think you settled at all. I think I am quite a catch (I wasn't referring to merely the physical -- I just meant in general, I feel I have a lot to offer a person."

 

He replied, "Yeah, that's why no one wanted you. You were 25 and the only one that wanted you was a divorced 38 year old with a kid. I was mature enough to choose based on what's most important."

 

I told my dh about this and he said that sounded like an invitation for you to remind him what it's like to be divorced with a kid, and then he would remember how lucky he was that you were willing to "settle" for him. (To be clear, he didn't mean a verbal reminder, but rather an experiential one.)

[annandatje]

What your husband said to you is just plain disrespectful; my husband used a much more colorful gutter term to described your husband's behavior.

 

Why he is behaving in this manner is not relevant. He is an adult who needs to grow up. An object lesson just might be in order.

[Tree House Academy]

He replied, "Yeah, that's why no one wanted you. You were 25 and the only one that wanted you was a divorced 38 year old with a kid. I was mature enough to choose based on what's most important."

 

I just looked up this thread due to the other post you made. Gosh, this hurts ME to read. I am SO SORRY you had to hear something like this. I see your pictures on here and you have always stood out as a truly natural and beautiful woman. Maybe your dh is in his mid-life crisis. :( :grouphug:

 

I am among the ranks of women here whose husband was shocked by what your dh said to you. It is not that he can't FEEL this way, I guess, but more than he felt he needed to hurt you so much by saying it! Goodness.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Tree House Academy

[Mom-ninja.]

I'm really concerned that Aaron and your other boys have (or will have) learned this attitude and behavior is ok for husbands. Their father is the #1 role model for how a husband should treat a wife, and he's setting a horrible example.

 

Horrible is not a strong enough word.

 

Please teach your sons, with action and words, that your husband's behavior is not acceptable.

[Jamee]

I just looked up this thread due to the other post you made. Gosh, this hurts ME to read. I am SO SORRY you had to hear something like this. I see your pictures on here and you have always stood out as a truly natural and beautiful woman. Maybe your dh is in his mid-life crisis. :( :grouphug:

 

I am among the ranks of women here whose husband was shocked by what your dh said to you. It is not that he can't FEEL this way, I guess, but more than he felt he needed to hurt you so much by saying it! Goodness.

 

I showed this to my DH as well and "shocked" isn't quite strong enough to describe his reaction. I then showed him your blog with your picture. He wondered what the heck your husband was thinking. (We both have curly hair. After having kids, my hair has never been the same and I have to keep it a lot shorter than I'd like. Your hair is GORGEOUS!!!!! I'm very jealous.) Anyway, I hope this can be worked out however you manage. :grouphug:

[lionfamily1999]

That's an interesting perspective. The first thing I thought when I read that was "Typical of older man with control issues." He can say whatever he wants, hurt your feelings, and if you call him on it, he does not want to discuss it.

He says he never wants to discuss it again,

 

People in my life that have a tendency to run roughshod over the feelings of others tend to use that as their apology. Ime, if you really push them on it you end up with, "What do you want? I said I was sorry!" Which they never did, but like to point to that moment when they said it should be dropped.

[Nestof3]

We ended up talking again last night. I hadn't planned on it, but we had something really bad happen with Aaron, and the conversation morphed into a conversation about our marriage.

 

He swears I misunderstood him -- that he thinks everyone settles on some things. He says he never used the words "like I did with you" when he was saying Aaron had so much going for him that he wouldn't have to settle, and he didn't mean only in appearances.

 

He thinks I settled because I ended up with a married guy with a child. He does think the fact that I was single at 25 indicates I didn't have too many suitors, but I tried to explain my relationship with my best friend at the time, and how busy my life was at that time. Honestly, I remember having a hard time finding an earnest Christian who actually acted like one.

 

He says that yes, it kind of bothers him that he was never the kind of guy that women flirted with or found attractive, etc. He says he has no insecurities with how he looks, that as long as I am content, he's happy.

 

He said, "I am the same guy that married you. I thought you were amazing then, and I think you are amazing now. You're the best thing that ever happened to me." He thinks I have twisted the conversation somehow, inserting his feelings about me into a conversation that had nothing to do with me but all about his hopes for his son. He says he just wants his son to be happy and have the best he can have overall. He doesn't want him to make the same mistakes he made. I cannot go into it on the boards, but he was referring to his former wife.

 

No, he doesn't find me drop-dead gorgeous or anything, but he finds me attractive. He says he knew on the first day that he met me that I was the kind you snatch up and marry. He did tell his son when leaving that day, "I'm going to marry her." Aaron remembers that.

 

He says after 12 years of marriage, things get pretty ho-hum. He still finds me attractive, but the newness has worn off. I know what he means there. Sometimes it's hard to find the spark. It's kind of like, "oh, there you are" for both of us. He says he used to go dizzy just kissing me. The spark returns now and then, and from my perspective, a lot of it has to do with me. I used to not be able to keep my hands off him, but now it's more like he's just a permanent fixture I can count on, you know?

 

He says whenever he does tell me how beautiful I am or now nice I look that day, I blow it off and say something about how fat I am. He reminded me that he told me I looked so delicious the other day, and I blew him off. He came up the other day and said, "There's my pretty wife," and I shrugged.

 

I told him it's not that I don't feel pretty, but that I reflect back to the conversation about settling and get cold. He says he wishes we never had the conversation because it had nothing to do with him. He says he would never say he settled for me.

 

Well, please pray for Aaron and us. He left the house last night and is staying with a male mentor from church to clear his mind about a relationship he has. I don't want to speak of it on the board. John and I are both hurting very much right now, and I am sure Aaron is as well.

[lionfamily1999]

Well Dawn, that was a much nicer apology :D

 

I'll pray for Aaron, I've already been praying for the two of you.

[teacalm]

We ended up talking again last night. I hadn't planned on it, but we had something really bad happen with Aaron, and the conversation morphed into a conversation about our marriage.

 

He swears I misunderstood him -- that he thinks everyone settles on some things. He says he never used the words "like I did with you" when he was saying Aaron had so much going for him that he wouldn't have to settle, and he didn't mean only in appearances.

 

He thinks I settled because I ended up with a married guy with a child. He does think the fact that I was single at 25 indicates I didn't have too many suitors, but I tried to explain my relationship with my best friend at the time, and how busy my life was at that time. Honestly, I remember having a hard time finding an earnest Christian who actually acted like one.

 

He says that yes, it kind of bothers him that he was never the kind of guy that women flirted with or found attractive, etc. He says he has no insecurities with how he looks, that as long as I am content, he's happy.

 

He said, "I am the same guy that married you. I thought you were amazing then, and I think you are amazing now. You're the best thing that ever happened to me." He thinks I have twisted the conversation somehow, inserting his feelings about me into a conversation that had nothing to do with me but all about his hopes for his son. He says he just wants his son to be happy and have the best he can have overall. He doesn't want him to make the same mistakes he made. I cannot go into it on the boards, but he was referring to his former wife.

 

No, he doesn't find me drop-dead gorgeous or anything, but he finds me attractive. He says he knew on the first day that he met me that I was the kind you snatch up and marry. He did tell his son when leaving that day, "I'm going to marry her." Aaron remembers that.

 

He says after 12 years of marriage, things get pretty ho-hum. He still finds me attractive, but the newness has worn off. I know what he means there. Sometimes it's hard to find the spark. It's kind of like, "oh, there you are" for both of us. He says he used to go dizzy just kissing me. The spark returns now and then, and from my perspective, a lot of it has to do with me. I used to not be able to keep my hands off him, but now it's more like he's just a permanent fixture I can count on, you know?

 

He says whenever he does tell me how beautiful I am or now nice I look that day, I blow it off and say something about how fat I am. He reminded me that he told me I looked so delicious the other day, and I blew him off. He came up the other day and said, "There's my pretty wife," and I shrugged.

 

I told him it's not that I don't feel pretty, but that I reflect back to the conversation about settling and get cold. He says he wishes we never had the conversation because it had nothing to do with him. He says he would never say he settled for me.

 

Well, please pray for Aaron and us. He left the house last night and is staying with a male mentor from church to clear his mind about a relationship he has. I don't want to speak of it on the board. John and I are both hurting very much right now, and I am sure Aaron is as well.

 

THis is soooo much better. I've been lifting you up in prayers. As you can see, I'm pro-marriage, and I know that all marriages goes through ups and downs. And there's no way he cannot have loved you as you deserved to be loved; you're such a lovely lovely person. Ahhh...The course of true love never did run smooth...(Shakespeare).

[RenayofRohan]

Dawn ~ Lifting up your family in prayer today. :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

I'm late to this thread because I've been um, on my honeymoon. :001_huh:

 

Marriage is intended to be forever. I sure meant for my first marriage to be forever. I put up with too much from my x in perhaps an over zealous effort to honor my vows. One day, 25 years into the marriage, it occured to me....*I* had honored my vow. HE had made it impossible for the me to stay married to him. That didn't make ME a failure.

 

So I've been married 6 days now. Definitely gonna be forever. ;)

Edited November 11, 2010 by Scarlett
Should have read the end of this long thread before posting.....my post sounds so out of place in the midst of the rest of it

[MamaSheep]

We ended up talking again last night. I hadn't planned on it, but we had something really bad happen with Aaron, and the conversation morphed into a conversation about our marriage.

 

He swears I misunderstood him -- that he thinks everyone settles on some things. He says he never used the words "like I did with you" when he was saying Aaron had so much going for him that he wouldn't have to settle, and he didn't mean only in appearances.

 

He thinks I settled because I ended up with a married guy with a child. He does think the fact that I was single at 25 indicates I didn't have too many suitors, but I tried to explain my relationship with my best friend at the time, and how busy my life was at that time. Honestly, I remember having a hard time finding an earnest Christian who actually acted like one.

 

He says that yes, it kind of bothers him that he was never the kind of guy that women flirted with or found attractive, etc. He says he has no insecurities with how he looks, that as long as I am content, he's happy.

 

He said, "I am the same guy that married you. I thought you were amazing then, and I think you are amazing now. You're the best thing that ever happened to me." He thinks I have twisted the conversation somehow, inserting his feelings about me into a conversation that had nothing to do with me but all about his hopes for his son. He says he just wants his son to be happy and have the best he can have overall. He doesn't want him to make the same mistakes he made. I cannot go into it on the boards, but he was referring to his former wife.

 

No, he doesn't find me drop-dead gorgeous or anything, but he finds me attractive. He says he knew on the first day that he met me that I was the kind you snatch up and marry. He did tell his son when leaving that day, "I'm going to marry her." Aaron remembers that.

 

He says after 12 years of marriage, things get pretty ho-hum. He still finds me attractive, but the newness has worn off. I know what he means there. Sometimes it's hard to find the spark. It's kind of like, "oh, there you are" for both of us. He says he used to go dizzy just kissing me. The spark returns now and then, and from my perspective, a lot of it has to do with me. I used to not be able to keep my hands off him, but now it's more like he's just a permanent fixture I can count on, you know?

 

He says whenever he does tell me how beautiful I am or now nice I look that day, I blow it off and say something about how fat I am. He reminded me that he told me I looked so delicious the other day, and I blew him off. He came up the other day and said, "There's my pretty wife," and I shrugged.

 

I told him it's not that I don't feel pretty, but that I reflect back to the conversation about settling and get cold. He says he wishes we never had the conversation because it had nothing to do with him. He says he would never say he settled for me.

 

Well, please pray for Aaron and us. He left the house last night and is staying with a male mentor from church to clear his mind about a relationship he has. I don't want to speak of it on the board. John and I are both hurting very much right now, and I am sure Aaron is as well.

 

Whew! Sometimes it really does help to talk about things. Good for you!:grouphug:

[texasmama]

:grouphug: Dawn I'm so glad that you are both continuing to talk about this hard, hard topic. I pray that healing will abound in your marriage and that it will be better in the future than it has ever been in the past. Again, you are a lovely person (and I'm not referring to physical looks when I say this). You are persevering and being respectful of your husband and marriage even during the hard times and misunderstandings which bring hurt. God honors that. Your heart shows through in your posts and that touches me (and so many others). Thank you for sharing a bit of your struggle.:grouphug:

[Scarlett]

You do realize this is a control thing, right? Because, Dawn, bad picture or not, you are lovely. I'm not even trying to be nice here (because, honestly, that's not my style), it's simply a fact.

 

Dawn you are gorgeous. Having an attractive spouse is a legitimate 'need' that should not be lightly discounted....but you far and away exceed that 'need'. It isn't as if you have gained 200 pounds or don't wash your hair or things like that.....so what he said to you (and I know there has been much further discussion on this since I got in the thread) was just needlessly cruel.

 

And that is the problem. This is not the first time you have been pained by your husband's obession with your weight/looks. You are pained because he is being cruel! HE has the problem. I had a similar problem with my now X-husband. No matter that I kept myself well and no matter how I REALLY look...there is no way to keep up with some twisted version of what is 'attractive' to a man like my X. When I was young and my X told me I was hot and beautiful....it felt good. I should have known something was up when he started trying to get me to lose 'just 5 lbs' within our first year of marriage. (120 at 5'6" wasn't good enough for him....he wanted 115). Then as the years went by I remember how it hit me one day how totally shallow and unrealistic he was about my looks! Then he started obsession about his own looks. Working out....new clothes....that kind of thing.

 

So no real surprise that he began an affair with a 24 year old.

 

Trouble is....none of us stay 24.

 

All I can tell you is to not let his twisted reality become your reality. You are beautiful. Your husband is wrong on so many levels.

[Rosie_0801]

That was a better conversation. I'd hate to have to start stitching a quilt patch for you, Dawn.

[Joanne]

I am going to have to vote "no".

 

I am voting "no" because marriage, in this thread and in millions of other setttings, marriage is defined as "not divorced". IOW, "no paperwork is offered to say divorced".

 

For me, marriage is interaction, healthy interdependency, honoring mutually decided upon rules and values.

 

I've known too many "marriages" that were dead. And, frankly, I've known some relationships that were like marriages but didn't have the paper.

 

So, no. A marriage can be "intact" and abysmal. That's not a marriage.

[Gooblink]

We ended up talking again last night. I hadn't planned on it, but we had something really bad happen with Aaron, and the conversation morphed into a conversation about our marriage.

 

He swears I misunderstood him -- that he thinks everyone settles on some things. He says he never used the words "like I did with you" when he was saying Aaron had so much going for him that he wouldn't have to settle, and he didn't mean only in appearances.

 

He thinks I settled because I ended up with a married guy with a child. He does think the fact that I was single at 25 indicates I didn't have too many suitors, but I tried to explain my relationship with my best friend at the time, and how busy my life was at that time. Honestly, I remember having a hard time finding an earnest Christian who actually acted like one.

 

He says that yes, it kind of bothers him that he was never the kind of guy that women flirted with or found attractive, etc. He says he has no insecurities with how he looks, that as long as I am content, he's happy.

 

He said, "I am the same guy that married you. I thought you were amazing then, and I think you are amazing now. You're the best thing that ever happened to me." He thinks I have twisted the conversation somehow, inserting his feelings about me into a conversation that had nothing to do with me but all about his hopes for his son. He says he just wants his son to be happy and have the best he can have overall. He doesn't want him to make the same mistakes he made. I cannot go into it on the boards, but he was referring to his former wife.

 

No, he doesn't find me drop-dead gorgeous or anything, but he finds me attractive. He says he knew on the first day that he met me that I was the kind you snatch up and marry. He did tell his son when leaving that day, "I'm going to marry her." Aaron remembers that.

 

He says after 12 years of marriage, things get pretty ho-hum. He still finds me attractive, but the newness has worn off. I know what he means there. Sometimes it's hard to find the spark. It's kind of like, "oh, there you are" for both of us. He says he used to go dizzy just kissing me. The spark returns now and then, and from my perspective, a lot of it has to do with me. I used to not be able to keep my hands off him, but now it's more like he's just a permanent fixture I can count on, you know?

 

He says whenever he does tell me how beautiful I am or now nice I look that day, I blow it off and say something about how fat I am. He reminded me that he told me I looked so delicious the other day, and I blew him off. He came up the other day and said, "There's my pretty wife," and I shrugged.

 

I told him it's not that I don't feel pretty, but that I reflect back to the conversation about settling and get cold. He says he wishes we never had the conversation because it had nothing to do with him. He says he would never say he settled for me.

 

Well, please pray for Aaron and us. He left the house last night and is staying with a male mentor from church to clear his mind about a relationship he has. I don't want to speak of it on the board. John and I are both hurting very much right now, and I am sure Aaron is as well.

 

I'm relieved to see you were able to talk things through, at least a bit. Although I was aghast to read your dh's comment in the first place, I started to feel a little sorry for him as more and more comments rolled in against him.

 

Contrary to what others may feel about "abusive" behavior, what I read into his comments was more a gross thoughtlessness, than an outright effort to hurt you (just intuition, of course I can't know). And, from what you've said regarding his character in all other aspects, I tend to give him a little grace. If he were a knave, he'd probably be a knave in all areas and to everyone. :)

 

I know what it's like to say something totally stupid and thoughtless and hurtful, in the heat of the moment or just without thinking. I'd always been pretty blunt, selfish and tactless until I was called on and convicted of my behavior. Maybe this will serve to better your husband, as well.

 

Your family will continue to be in my prayers! :grouphug: