Accountability of Outside Instructors

[Gratia271]

When you retain the services of others, whether individuals, coops or online academies, what level of accountability to the parent for quality of instruction do you think is appropriate?

[flyingmommy]

Speaking from current experience, it is really going to depend on the expectations of whoever is running the co-op. Our co-op is run by a mom who frankly doesn't have high expectations of her own children. The only people she seems to expect much from are the ones who aren't teaching her children. Grr! There are several hired teachers and we have many, many moms who are dissatisfied with the level of teaching. Unfortunately, the "director" (ever notice how close that word is to dictator? LOL) thinks they are the greatest thing since sliced bread so she refuses to address the issues.

[Sophia]

I expect they would be able to answer any questions I have about the progress of my student or areas in which they may need help.

I would have expected a syllabus prior to the class beginning that explained student expectations, and how grades are assigned, goals, course objectives.

I think that's all.

[Gratia271]

Speaking from current experience, it is really going to depend on the expectations of whoever is running the co-op. Our co-op is run by a mom who frankly doesn't have high expectations of her own children. The only people she seems to expect much from are the ones who aren't teaching her children. Grr! There are several hired teachers and we have many, many moms who are dissatisfied with the level of teaching. Unfortunately, the "director" (ever notice how close that word is to dictator? LOL) thinks they are the greatest thing since sliced bread so she refuses to address the issues.

 

That has really been my experience too with cooperatives. They do make a good presentation at the outset, but the teachers drop the ball early on (after they have their money), and the director does nothing. I am floored at the lack of accountability in exchange for a significant amount of money. I endeavor to not have a bad attitude toward people or situations, but this is such a lack of integrity and honesty.

 

On the one hand, people run these groups (cooperatives and online academies) as a business (accepting money in exchange for services provided). On the other hand, when I apprise them of problems (such as Latin teacher is not proficient in Latin, or HS Bio teacher is nothing more than a lab proctor), there is NO accountability and NO communication beyond "christian charity" chatter. It is only a business in that they accept my money. They fail to comprehend the contractual obligations on their part in exchange for legal consideration provided. It really leads me to believe that these groups are simply money grubbers. They understand currency to be sure, they bastardize "christian love," and they lack integrity.

:rant:

[Gratia271]

I expect they would be able to answer any questions I have about the progress of my student or areas in which they may need help.

I would have expected a syllabus prior to the class beginning that explained student expectations, and how grades are assigned, goals, course objectives.

I think that's all.

 

How would you handle a situation where the teacher was not proficient in the subject matter (of which fact you were not aware when you registered for the class)?

[Sophia]

How would you handle a situation where the teacher was not proficient in the subject matter (of which fact you were not aware when you registered for the class)?

 

Yeah, I just read your other response.

That stinks.

It's a situation I have not encountered yet, but especially if it was a high school class I'd be moving pretty quickly before the year got away from me.

I'd have to pull him and say since they are not providing the service I signed up for I would not continue in the class.

I expect their Christian love will want the best for my dc who is not being taught anything in the class.

That's awful and I feel for you.

If I outsourced to begin with, that means I did not want to teach the class.

[Gratia271]

That is exactly why I outsourced the teaching. I am beginning to think that these groups assume the parent doesn't know the subject material and, therefore, cannot really ascertain whether they are upholding their end of the bargain. For me, I just needed a break from several courses. Now I am stuck teaching it after spending a significant amount of money to not teach it. :glare:

[Tidbits of Learning]

We are part of a co-op, but I have learned it is more about the social aspect than anything they can take from it. There are a few good "Mom" teachers that take it seriously, but they are few. Our director as well has her own agenda and goals and they do not necessarily correspond to what the other 100 or so families are after now.

In other words, her reason for starting the co-op 5 years ago is no longer relevant and there are other needs and wants that are not addressed each year by other families.

I have also learned that the "hired" teachers are not necessarily trained to teach in their field. Our art teacher is a pretty decent local artist; however, she has had no formal training in teaching art. She also seems to not know the copyright laws on copying characters and just changing them up a bit and calling them your own. This disturbs me as my oldest is talented in art and thinks the artist word is gold. I have had to explain to her that you can't just change the tail or eyes on a cartoon character and sign your name and call it your own creation.

To me, it is a great outlet for your child to make friends; but not a great outlet for true academics. There is no accountability and I often wonder what is being taught in the classes.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

We should stop making these one-sided arrangements in our co-op situations.

 

When we give over our children and our resources, crossing our fingers and hoping they'll actually get a good teacher this year, we are imitating the public school situation!

 

There should be a contract between teacher and parents (or students, if they are high school age).

[MomOfOneFunOne]

I rather think that the responsibility lay squarely on the shoulders of the parents. If a teacher/tutor/whatever isn't up to snuff, he should be sent packing.

 

Also, though, what about slacker parents? I can tell you it's pretty frustrating to try to do a good job teaching students who have parents who don't follow through at home.

[myfunnybunch]

How would you handle a situation where the teacher was not proficient in the subject matter (of which fact you were not aware when you registered for the class)?

 

I'd politely ask for my money back, or credit to re-take the class in the future from a different intructor if that's an option.

 

I'd probably not say that I don't think the teacher is proficient, unless the teacher is grossly ignorant of the subject and/or is teaching incorrect information. Instead I would say politely that I'd expected the children would be taught xyz to a particular level, and that the class isn't really what you'd expected. "It's not really meeting our needs," is true and courteous, and it puts the ball in the director's or instructor's court to find out more specifically what the problem is if they wish (or let the matter drop if they and the other class participants are happy with instruction).

 

Cat

[2cents]

These are the main reasons I've been mostly disappointed with co-op experiences. I expect at least a normal range of competency in the teacher and usually end up feeling like they dropped the ball. Many classes start off well and go downhill quickly and never fulfill the stated goal. On the other hand, I've also found that many of the homeschool parents balk at having homework or rigor in the co-op classes as well. Classes that clearly state there will be homework and expectations all too often don't make the required class enrollment and don't materialize. There is also a wide range of what is acceptable behavior in the coop classroom. Some children behave very well and are attentive and then there are the 'free spirits' that are just all over the place and just plain disruptive and their parents rationalize their lack of respect by claiming they are 'curious' or 'free' (blah). I avoid coops and try to find classes that are run more like a business because I find that there is more accountability. I've liked our museum courses and those offered by the virtual school. If we were to do any coops, it wouldn't be for a class that I wanted any academic mastery of. It would be for fun and socialization (and even that is if-y).

[Parrothead]

How would you handle a situation where the teacher was not proficient in the subject matter (of which fact you were not aware when you registered for the class)?

I'd pull the child out of the class. No since wasting money with no results.

[angela in ohio]

It depends on the amount paid.

 

A co-op, by defininition, should be a group in which parents trade services (each mom teaches a subject.) At the point where instructors charge over and above supply fees, it becomes a business, not a co-op. At that point, there need to be contracts, agreements, and accountability.

 

I have long been a critic of parents either in co-ops or other services to homeschoolers who charge money to teach material they don't know. I left an organization that did just that thing (and makes no effrorts whatsoever to guarantee quality despite charging a hefty fee.) The only time I have accepted money for teaching a homeschool class of students has been when I knew the material AND knew how to teach it. Otherwise, I do it for free or trade. (Actually I've done it for free or trade even when I knew how to teach the material, too.)

 

Side note: One the other end, I have been supremely disappointed in parents who were happy to outsource a subject to me (for free, at a co-op) and then didn't require any work of their student outside of class. I cannot teach a high school student Latin or essay writing in one hour a week, sorry! :glare: All the parent had to do to have a FREE high school class from someone qualified to teach was to make sure their student did the (reasonable amount of) work at home, and 75% of the parents didn't.

 

I recommend asking for a refund, but I can't think you will get far with that request.

[Gratia271]

We should stop making these one-sided arrangements in our co-op situations.

 

When we give over our children and our resources, crossing our fingers and hoping they'll actually get a good teacher this year, we are imitating the public school situation!

 

There should be a contract between teacher and parents (or students, if they are high school age).

 

I agree! In actuality, it is a contractual arrangement whether or not they realize it, but it should be reduced to writing and signed by all parties. In our case, this coop charged $750. for HS Biology, and the online academy charges $400./class in exchange for people who misrepresent themselves as qualified. It is complete misrepresentation from a legal standpoint.

[Gratia271]

I rather think that the responsibility lay squarely on the shoulders of the parents. If a teacher/tutor/whatever isn't up to snuff, he should be sent packing.

 

Also, though, what about slacker parents? I can tell you it's pretty frustrating to try to do a good job teaching students who have parents who don't follow through at home.

 

I agree with you about slacker parents. In fact, it has made it much more difficult for me when I attempt to hold these online academies accountable because the other parents are totally disconnected and have no cognizance of what is occurring during class.

[Murphy101]

Well I agree with Gratia.

 

I also think home school parents tend to not expect much of their kid when a subject is outsourced. They tend to look at it as a social event only. So a parent actually expecting professionalism from the teacher by asking said teacher to have a syllabus, grading plan, class requirements and such laid out BEFORE class starts sticks out like a thorn in their side. For that matter, I wouldn't sign up unless I had that information. Which means I rarely sign up for much.

 

And it just ticks me off to hear them yammering about how they are "volunteering" and Christian charity. What carp.

 

Some here get paid $600 or more per semester per student, plus books, and they require a LOT of the parents to volunteer in class and they aren't any more qualified than any other mom most of the time. That is a HUGE financial and time commitment in exchange far too often for nothing more than a social time.

 

If that's what parents want fine.

 

But it should be billed that way so parents looking for academics aren't suckered in and then made to feel either snobbish or unchristian when they want their money back.

 

So I guess accountability is on the parents, like always. Though sadly most of the time it looks more like getting ripped off than accountability.:glare:

Edited November 3, 2010 by Martha

[Gratia271]

These are the main reasons I've been mostly disappointed with co-op experiences. I expect at least a normal range of competency in the teacher and usually end up feeling like they dropped the ball. Many classes start off well and go downhill quickly and never fulfill the stated goal. On the other hand, I've also found that many of the homeschool parents balk at having homework or rigor in the co-op classes as well. Classes that clearly state there will be homework and expectations all too often don't make the required class enrollment and don't materialize. I avoid coops and try to find classes that are run more like a business because I find that there is more accountability. I've liked our museum courses and those offered by the virtual school. If we were to do any coops, it wouldn't be for a class that I wanted any academic mastery of. It would be for fun and socialization (and even that is if-y).

 

In terms of the coop, it is purportedly run on a business model (given the fees charged alone). Since this is a HS class, high standards were touted and delineated yet have not materialized. I specifically avoided any such places in the younger years because of the lack of academic rigor, but I have been shocked at the pathetic performance of the teacher in a HS Biology course. Of course, payment is required up front.

 

In respect of the online academy, I chose it on the understanding that it was a "business." As it turns out, they don't have qualified instruction in at least one of their classes, and mistakes are the norm. On one occasion, they didn't even comprehend what was wrong until I spelled it out for them. This is pretty disturbing for a presumably credible organization. When I brought this to the attention of the "person in charge," there was NO response. They apparently have no intention of acknowledging responsibility for their obligations notwithstanding acceptance of $800.00. At this point, my only conjecture is that this is easy money, and that's their bottom line. They require payment in full for the entire year in advance. Since they have it, they don't care whatsoever about honoring their part of the contract.

 

The most pathetic part about these groups is that they're religious and spout off regularly about integrity. How ironic.

[Gratia271]

And it just ticks me off to hear them yammering about how they are "volunteering" and Christian charity. What carp.

 

AMEN!

[Ester Maria]

How would you handle a situation where the teacher was not proficient in the subject matter (of which fact you were not aware when you registered for the class)?

We don't do co-ops or outside classes (at least not for the time being), but kids have a few tutors, some of them for regular work and some of them occasionally.

 

The question you ask is why you might wish to check their credentials before you start working with them - degrees, where obtained, specializations, possible teaching experience, etc. Granted, none of those is an ultimate guarantee of quality, but I find that it's still very useful to know who you're dealing with. That way you can eliminate a lot of people right away, especially those without high educations in the field (or a related one).

 

When you do come across a lack of proficiency, stop hiring them right away - or, if in a class, pull the child out and request the return of money for the rest of the classes, if the contract allows such a situation. I pulled my children once after an experiment of having them "socialize" a bit and learn with other children, because the quality of instruction was ridiculously low and they benefitted in no way whatsoever. That's my only bad experience, though, since usually we get to people via somebody who knows them and has had a great experience with them.

[missmoe]

What responabilities do parents have to make sure the teachers are qualified to teach before handing over large amounts of money?

 

Before I hire a plumber or painter or landscaper I research the credentials, business licenses, experience, ect of said person.

[Gratia271]

Being an attorney, I don't blithely delegate instruction to outsiders. They are credentialed instructors in the fields in which they teach, and the online academy specifically touts itself as one of the best classical online opportunities available.

 

It is difficult to ascertain integrity until one has experienced the environment. I am discovering that there is often misrepresentation at the outset. Credentials don't necessarily equate with competence in transmitting knowledge to a student base. I surmise I should resume my skepticism about humanity in general and believe nothing without a signed contract.

[Murphy101]

What responabilities do parents have to make sure the teachers are qualified to teach before handing over large amounts of money?

 

Before I hire a plumber or painter or landscaper I research the credentials, business licenses, experience, ect of said person.

 

Really? When my toilet is overflowing and I have 11 people in need of a squat, I call the first plumber in the yellow pages that can get his equipment here the fastest.

 

As for the painter and landscaper, usually it is work of mouth. BBB status not withstanding, I'm interred in how satisfied their actual customers are with the work.

 

Sadly word of mouth isn't always helpful in the home school community.

 

"They were great!" could mean anything from they gave my kid an easy A even tho the mom claims he worked his tail off for it to meaning the teacher spouted lots of christian stuff they liked hearing to meaning the course wasnt that hard but was very engaging for a student who didnt like the subject to meaning their kid got a 5 on the AP at the end of class.

 

Being an attorney, I don't blithely delegate instruction to outsiders. They are credentialed instructors in the fields in which they teach, and the online academy specifically touts itself as one of the best classical online opportunities available.

 

It is difficult to ascertain integrity until one has experienced the environment. I am discovering that there is often misrepresentation at the outset.

Credentials don't necessarily equate with competence in transmitting knowledge to a student base. I surmise I should resume my skepticism about humanity in general and believe nothing without a signed contract.

 

This. Of course now I'm writhing with curiosity about which provider you are referencing. Hint hint. Spill the beans woman!;)

[flyingmommy]

We are part of a co-op, but I have learned it is more about the social aspect than anything they can take from it. There are a few good "Mom" teachers that take it seriously, but they are few. Our director as well has her own agenda and goals and they do not necessarily correspond to what the other 100 or so families are after now.

In other words, her reason for starting the co-op 5 years ago is no longer relevant and there are other needs and wants that are not addressed each year by other families.

I have also learned that the "hired" teachers are not necessarily trained to teach in their field. Our art teacher is a pretty decent local artist; however, she has had no formal training in teaching art. She also seems to not know the copyright laws on copying characters and just changing them up a bit and calling them your own. This disturbs me as my oldest is talented in art and thinks the artist word is gold. I have had to explain to her that you can't just change the tail or eyes on a cartoon character and sign your name and call it your own creation.

To me, it is a great outlet for your child to make friends; but not a great outlet for true academics. There is no accountability and I often wonder what is being taught in the classes.

 

Openminded, I'm starting to think we are in the same co-op! :)

[LizzyBee]

I think the quality is pretty good in my area because of the large number of homeschoolers. If a co-op (parent-led, no fees) is meeting primarily for social reasons and to learn some fun subjects that parents typically don't teach, that is usually known up front, and people only participate if that's what they're looking for. There are some excellent co-ops that are heavy on academics.

 

People who offer classes in exchange for fees don't stay in business long if their classes are sub-par because there are other options.

[Gratia271]

I think the quality is pretty good in my area because of the large number of homeschoolers. If a co-op (parent-led, no fees) is meeting primarily for social reasons and to learn some fun subjects that parents typically don't teach, that is usually known up front, and people only participate if that's what they're looking for. There are some excellent co-ops that are heavy on academics.

 

People who offer classes in exchange for fees don't stay in business long if their classes are sub-par because there are other options.

 

That is great! I wish there were more like that around here. Full disclosure would be helpful.