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Opinions about odd Homeschooling comment...


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First of all, I rarely get any negative comments about HSing... I usually get the typical "Wow!" "I could never do that!" "That is so great!" type of comments.

 

Last night, we were all at my husband's photo exhibition opening at a gallery downtown (it was also Final Friday, where all the businesses and galleries are open late, lots o' street stuff etc) and I was pleasantly talking with one of my husband's drawing class students. She is MUCH older than me.

 

So... the subject gets to homeschooling, and she says... that she thinks bullying and teasing are a good thing for kids do deal with, in order to understand and deal with "real life" so she isn't 100% on board with the idea of HSing.

 

:001_huh:

 

This is one of my specific reasons that we started homeschooling. I am very opinionated about this issue, as I think that that sort of behavior is totally unnecessary and the damage that is done is far more devastating to a person's future development than a possible (and dubious) "life lesson". Let's just say (even through my slight gallery wine haze) I really let her know what I thought. She actually had the guts to say that she was never even teased in school (so why do you have this opinion?) and that she thinks I might have a point... but of course, as she left she had to say... "Just remember to let go of them when they need to move on...You don't want to end up like your MIL"

 

ARG!!!

 

So... I am wondering (and I know what the prevailing opinion will be) how do you feel about this particular bullying/ teasing comment? (The MIL comment I can let slide, as I will never be like my MIL..... ) I have not ever heard that come out of anyone's mouth as a valid reasoning against home education. Blew my mind.

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Aside from beginning picking on her, and encouraging others to do so, and menacingly instructing her in a stage whisper to meet you out back to settle this once and for all....I think it's probably one of those arguments where no one would change their mind and you'd just get sweaty and grumpy by engaging.

 

However, she might be interested to know that the Department of Education is concerned about the amount of bullying in school and large media outlets (such as NBC nightly news) have been covering bullying, especially given the rise in suicides, and the involvement of technology. I'd just say that things have changed since the old days when "we" were in school.

 

I was a victim of bullying so I get it.

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I was bullied by two different people for two different reasons. This was in elementary and junior high school. I'm 43 and it wasn't until I was almost 40 that I realized how I had let those events creep into my subconscious and it had damaging effects of my self-acceptance.

 

That's my story. However, my gut reply would be "Last time I checked bullying was not acceptable by adults, it becomes assault, blackmail, or sexual harassment." Then give 'em the evil eye.

 

There are plenty of ways we can teach our kids to be street smart, deal with conflicts, and learn what is acceptable behavior without being in a classroom.

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I know bullying from college kids and adults happens. BUT, I think it's much less than from kids.

 

I think that helping your kids grow up confident and with high self-esteem (which isn't helped by babying OR bullying) will allow them to adapt and handle things when they are older.

 

There is a line there where you need to allow them to handle issues, but you have to teach them to handle issues and you need to know when an issue is beyond their ability to handle and requires an adult to intervene.

 

Once that confidence and self-esteem are shattered, I think it's an uphill battle to get them to a confident adult point.

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She has nothing to worry about. Kids will get plenty of opportunities to be bullied, even when they are homeschooled.:glare:

 

:iagree: Siblings can be the meanest. They know ALL of your weaknesses :tongue_smilie:

 

My neighbor is against homeschooling because she thinks kids NEED bad teachers... so they learn how to deal with them, I guess? :confused:

 

I got that one covered too :D

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I can't think of a situation where I have been bullied as an adult. I'm sure that some adults have, but I don't think it is normal in healthy relationships and environments.

 

If an adult is in an unhealthy environment, they can LEAVE. Dc can't leave school unless we take them out.

 

Unless we are trying to get our dc ready for marrying an abusive spouse, I don't think dc need a bullying experience.:glare:

 

One of my main reasons for hs'ing is to keep my kids away from dc who are dangerous.

 

Bullies=dangerous

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Oh I've heard that and read that many times. Kids need to learn to deal w/ bullying blah blah blah. Yes, some adults have to deal with bullying in the work place but I don't see that as any reason to put a child through it.

 

 

 

First of all, I rarely get any negative comments about HSing... I usually get the typical "Wow!" "I could never do that!" "That is so great!" type of comments.

 

Last night, we were all at my husband's photo exhibition opening at a gallery downtown (it was also Final Friday, where all the businesses and galleries are open late, lots o' street stuff etc) and I was pleasantly talking with one of my husband's drawing class students. She is MUCH older than me.

 

So... the subject gets to homeschooling, and she says... that she thinks bullying and teasing are a good thing for kids do deal with, in order to understand and deal with "real life" so she isn't 100% on board with the idea of HSing.

 

:001_huh:

 

This is one of my specific reasons that we started homeschooling. I am very opinionated about this issue, as I think that that sort of behavior is totally unnecessary and the damage that is done is far more devastating to a person's future development than a possible (and dubious) "life lesson". Let's just say (even through my slight gallery wine haze) I really let her know what I thought. She actually had the guts to say that she was never even teased in school (so why do you have this opinion?) and that she thinks I might have a point... but of course, as she left she had to say... "Just remember to let go of them when they need to move on...You don't want to end up like your MIL"

 

ARG!!!

 

So... I am wondering (and I know what the prevailing opinion will be) how do you feel about this particular bullying/ teasing comment? (The MIL comment I can let slide, as I will never be like my MIL..... ) I have not ever heard that come out of anyone's mouth as a valid reasoning against home education. Blew my mind.

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:iagree: Siblings can be the meanest. They know ALL of your weaknesses :tongue_smilie:

 

My neighbor is against homeschooling because she thinks kids NEED bad teachers... so they learn how to deal with them, I guess? :confused:

 

I got that one covered too :D

:iagree:and :lol:. Too funny!

 

My mil has been saying this to me for 20 years. And yet she retired early (from a teaching career) because a "gang" of high schoolers were bullying her! Seriously, they were making her life miserable (she was in her early 60's at the time and had been teaching for 20+ years). They were throwing things at her and taunting her in the classroom, getting up and leaving the room etc.

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So... the subject gets to homeschooling, and she says... that she thinks bullying and teasing are a good thing for kids do deal with, in order to understand and deal with "real life" so she isn't 100% on board with the idea of HSing.

 

:001_huh:

 

 

 

I hear this a lot, too. After having given it much thought, I have come to the conclusion that these people don't completely understand the magnitude of bullying as of late. When I was in school, there was bullying, but not like now. If this woman is older than you, likely the bullying she may/may not have experienced was even lighter than the sort when I was was in school. I think what they are doing is confusing "socialization" with "bullying". By having you child experience someone being nasty, they will develop the skills to deal with the nasties as an adult, since we can never quite get away from them, can we?

 

So, bottom line is that I don't think she has any idea what she's talking about. She's simplified a social skill at the risk of hurting the child. Every kid will run into the nasties eventually all on their own. No need to lock them up everyday with them, 8 hours a day for the the better part of a year to teach them that little social skill. :glare:

Edited by LauraGB
forgot some words
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First of all, I rarely get any negative comments about HSing... I usually get the typical "Wow!" "I could never do that!" "That is so great!" type of comments.

 

Last night, we were all at my husband's photo exhibition opening at a gallery downtown (it was also Final Friday, where all the businesses and galleries are open late, lots o' street stuff etc) and I was pleasantly talking with one of my husband's drawing class students. She is MUCH older than me.

 

So... the subject gets to homeschooling, and she says... that she thinks bullying and teasing are a good thing for kids do deal with, in order to understand and deal with "real life" so she isn't 100% on board with the idea of HSing.

 

:001_huh:

 

This is one of my specific reasons that we started homeschooling. I am very opinionated about this issue, as I think that that sort of behavior is totally unnecessary and the damage that is done is far more devastating to a person's future development than a possible (and dubious) "life lesson". Let's just say (even through my slight gallery wine haze) I really let her know what I thought. She actually had the guts to say that she was never even teased in school (so why do you have this opinion?) and that she thinks I might have a point... but of course, as she left she had to say... "Just remember to let go of them when they need to move on...You don't want to end up like your MIL"

 

ARG!!!

 

So... I am wondering (and I know what the prevailing opinion will be) how do you feel about this particular bullying/ teasing comment? (The MIL comment I can let slide, as I will never be like my MIL..... ) I have not ever heard that come out of anyone's mouth as a valid reasoning against home education. Blew my mind.

 

This HURTS MY BRAIN.

 

A mom IRL told me that one morning she walked into her then 7th gr. son's room to wake him for school. He wasn't in bed. He was curled in a ball in the corner because he couldn't face going to school anymore b/c of relentless bullying.

 

HOW CAN THIS BE GOOD?

 

This boy is a kind, good-looking, smart athlete.

 

When I asked her how it all finally stopped, she said it was when the bullies changed schools.

 

I am so SICK of it. What happened to decency? What happened to if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything?

 

Where is the smilie for my brain exploding?!?!

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I feel the reason she gave was completely ridiculous and I think you handled the situation well. You can usually defend yourself or walk away from bullying in "real life." Even if it's your boss who is doing the bullying you at least have the option to quit and find another job. What options does a child have?

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It is RIDICULOUS to think that the torture of being bullied is a life lesson. Seriously, what kind of world accepts that??? NOT MINE.

 

I was made fun of all through school for being overweight. Kids would push me down and call me names and throw things at me. Kids are so mean. My littlest sister is gorgeous and thin and since all the girls are jealous they have given death threats to her....death threats! Its insane and my sis is very sensitive and it kills her. She will carry all this crap with her the rest of her life. She is only learning that something must be wrong with her. She isnt learning a single productive thing from this "life lesson"

 

Homeschooled kids will have a chance to get bullied because they are around other kids. But I will be able to stop it dead in its tracks then. I have never been bullied in college or after. Going through the torment of being bullied in high school has done nothing but scar me. And ts not a life lesson, its evil and cruel and no child should be put through it.

 

It is riduculous to think that kids need to be bullied and tortured. That person needs her head examined.

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I use to hear that often.

For some reason people don't give me their reasons for thinking h'schooling is bad anymore.:Angel_anim:

 

I'd be tempted to blurt out "Did you hear someone else say that, or do you really think children learn best under cruel circumstances?"

 

Her parting comment makes me think she just wanted to let you know h'schooling is bad, bad, bad and you probably haven't thought it through very well.

 

Some people :glare:

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We recently found out that all the schools have been re-districted. So the bully school my dd10 (8 at the time of the bullying) was tormented at would not be the school they are required to attend now. We began to talk about sending the girls back after Christmas as this would be a brand new elementary school and the school counselor is dd10's old first grade teacher who does not tolerate any nonsense. She was very excited b/c she is a very social child.

I had been seeing what we would have to do (testing, portfolio, report cards...) to put them in after Christmas. DD10 was totally on board and excited. That is until she realized that next year she would move to the Middle School where the schools would all combine and the bully kids would once again be at school with her. Albeit in a different school with different administration.

She completely changed her tune. She got withdrawn, moody, and very emotional. She is terribly afraid of these children. She had a chair thrown on her by a boy who was almost my size in 3rd grade at her previous school. The school did nothing until I went and complained after they sent her home with an ice bag and no explanation. The boy went to GASP (in school suspension) and the other kids tortured my child for getting him in trouble. This was about 2 months before the end of 3rd grade and she hasn't been back.

Now I have to get DH (who was terribly hard to convince to hs-and only relented after dd had a heart to heart about all the bullying with him--I think she told him more than I even know happened) back on the hs'ing support team. He has family in the school system so he had to take a big stand and tell people things weren't there business. He has been great for supporting us when there was no alternative, but now with the redistricting he thinks a solution is found for them to go to school. It would be a solution for only 6 months though as she will go to Middle School next year. So I do think bullying has profound effects. My dd10 at the mere thought of seeing these children in a year is crying, acting out, not eating, eating too much junk, and just generally getting depressed and acting out. She is also clawing her arms (which she hasn't done in 2 years). She always clawed her "excema" when tortured by these kids and has scars on the inside of her arms from it.

So if presented with this argument, I would show them my child's scars (physical and emotional) and ask them would they send their child or grandchild back for more of that to learn a life lesson.

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I've never understood this comment. Bullies are bullies. Homeschooling is certainly not a guarantee that your child won't be bullied.

 

My oldest was roughed up at a homeschool park day by a boy a few years older than her. He used to pick on all of the littler girls. You know the difference in homeschooling, though? Finally a boy who was bigger than him came to park day, and things were taken care of. ;) No one suspended (one bully mom a bit miffed, of course,) no one expelled. Just good old fashioned justice.

 

My youngest was the youngest boy in our group of homeschool friends. He was routinely taunted, left out, and bullied. He learned to deal with it and defend himself (which resulted in one bully's mom calling foul when the tables turned, but the bully was four years older and bigger than him, so we weren't that upset about it.) He learned different tactics, from ignoring it to fighting back. All within a group of "nice Christian homeschoolers." :D

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I think your husband's drawing student may be my (former) hairstylist.

 

At my last appt, I sat through the same comments. Lacking the wine haze though, I wasn't brave enough to challenge the woman with the scissors. (Snip, snip - oops!)

 

Evidently she is thrilled that her son is being bullied in school this year. It's apparently an essential component of his freshman year and necessary for his growth??

 

Ugh. My kiddo is going to have plenty of opportunities for growth without having his clothes stolen while he's in the shower at school.

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There's a difference between experiencing bullying & teasing in small doses (as unfortunately does happen even among homeschoolers) and having to endure it day in and day out for *years* the way many traditionally schooled kids have to. An adult who is being bullied can always get out from the abusive situation- quit the job, end the relationship, etc. Schoolkids typically are powerless to do so.

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:iagree: Siblings can be the meanest. They know ALL of your weaknesses :tongue_smilie:

 

My neighbor is against homeschooling because she thinks kids NEED bad teachers... so they learn how to deal with them, I guess? :confused:

 

I got that one covered too :D

 

This cracked me up!! This is true for my house as well.

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My son takes music lessons at the same time as two brothers, and their mother and I have gotten to know each other over the past few years, just chatting during the children's lesson time.

She tells me often about the problems the oldest boy is having in school with bullying. Literally, it has brought tears to my eyes, what she has described. In my opinion, it crosses the line from 'bullying' to assault and battery. Her son is in counseling and is on anxiety medications. They keep extra glasses at the school, as her son has his glasses broken by this boy at least once a week. :001_huh: She was telling me recently that the superintendent of the school district had to step in and lead a counseling session for this class, as the bullying had escalated.

And yet -- every time she talks about it, she ends with, "Yeah. You homeschool. But I think kids need to learn how to deal with the bullying."

I seriously want to ask her what she thinks her son is learning from all this. Nothing good, that is for sure!

 

My son has recently become the target of a bully in an after-school sport's program.

So - yeah, even homeschooled only children can be bullied and "learn how to deal with it." :tongue_smilie:

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Bullying is a part of life for many children, and it has been on my mind for the last week. As one poster wrote, even homeschooled only children will have plenty of opportunity to deal with bullying. The bullying may be subtle rather than in the form of overt threats (subtle bullying is often more difficult to deal with), but we've seen bullying in all kinds of situations; i.e. ballet class, youth group, etc. as well as from other homeschoolers. Yes, it's more difficult for school children because they can't get away, but even weekly exposure to bullying, especially when it occurs in a situation that the child enjoys, can be draining and discouraging. We talk to our children about pack mentality and try to teach them when to walk away and when to push back.

Edited by 1Togo
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Stupid comment.

 

What I find interesting is that, when pressed, those who say it's good for kids to experiece bullying so they can learn to deal with it seem to have absolutely no idea how one DOES deal with it! Not many people really do.

 

Her last comment, tho--well, it is a fear of some that kids will become overattached to their "mommies" (suck thumb-twirl hair-drag blankie around) as teens because they've spent too much time "in the womb" of the home. Bah. I don't believe it.

As long as the parent doesn't suffocate the kids, I think it's fine.

 

Why in the world is she going around giving her opinion and advice about kids to other parents, anyway?

Something I'D never do...:D

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And what about when the bully is the teacher??? My dh was tortured by an elementary school teacher for the whole year and my mil only found out about it at the end of the year, when another mom told her, "My dd comes home in tears every day about what the teacher is doing to your ds." The damage was done. My dh feels completely incompetent with school and learning, and it stems from this teacher.

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I heard the whole, "Kids need to learn how to deal w/negative ppl" crudola when we first pulled Diva out of school. Apparently, hsing is about parents keeping their kids completely coddled and sheltered. I was even asked if I would be there through her adult life to yank her out of bad situations, and told that by pulling her out of school I was teaching her to just run away from problems rather than dealing w/them.

 

Ppl are nuts. Its as though they're attempting to justify bullying as a 'growth' experience.

 

I was bullied through school. I know it left me with lifelong scarring. Why would I want the same for my kids?

 

I've even been asked why I'd hs Tazzie and Princess. Since I couldn't predict if they'd be bullied or not, I should let them at least try ps and see what happened. :001_huh:

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Call me crazy, but I don't have it in me to have an opinion on every opinion. I mean, people have opinions , but I don't have a need to spend too much time thinking about all of those opinions. :auto::D

 

Or sharing them unless specifically asked. And even then, only if I'm quite sure I feel I know what I'm talking about.

Edited by LauraGB
fixed LL's typo ;-)
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I agree. Bullying is not a growth experience. It leaves forever pain. The difficult part is dealing with it. How do you help your children deal with bullying? We have changed situations, classes and teachers or even dropped activities when the sitution became unbearable for our children. We've also tried talking to the parents of the bully, which has helped on occasion. More often, though, the parent's response is negative and/or defensive, showing the source of the bullying.

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I just watched several talk shows deal with SUICIDE due to excessive bullying in school. One kid was ELEVEN years old and killed himself.

 

I am quite positive that the parents of those kids would beg to differ with that mom!

We had a 9-year-old boy in our school district commit suicide. Every news article cited how much he had been bullied in school.

This was several months ago, before it became such a 'hot' news story like it has been the past few weeks.

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I agree with the pp who said that bullying is a lot different now than when we were in school. The fact that she was never a victim of bullying proves she has no idea what she's talking about.

 

Also, I think MIL issues cross all educational lines, so that was just a silly thing to say. Homeschooling has nothing to do with it.

:iagree:

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My son takes music lessons at the same time as two brothers, and their mother and I have gotten to know each other over the past few years, just chatting during the children's lesson time.

She tells me often about the problems the oldest boy is having in school with bullying. Literally, it has brought tears to my eyes, what she has described. In my opinion, it crosses the line from 'bullying' to assault and battery. Her son is in counseling and is on anxiety medications. They keep extra glasses at the school, as her son has his glasses broken by this boy at least once a week. :001_huh: She was telling me recently that the superintendent of the school district had to step in and lead a counseling session for this class, as the bullying had escalated.

And yet -- every time she talks about it, she ends with, "Yeah. You homeschool. But I think kids need to learn how to deal with the bullying."

I seriously want to ask her what she thinks her son is learning from all this. Nothing good, that is for sure!

 

 

Oh my. I think I actually would ask her what beneficial things she thinks her son is learning from the bullying. Maybe it would get her to think about it a little bit!

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I've heard that before and I think it's ridiculous. When my kids have had time to become who they are and know how to handle these things, then they can go out in the world and deal with mean people. Why would I want to force that on them now when they are still figuring out themselves?

 

It's not like they won't encounter mean people as young adults at work and college. But even with mean people in the world, I don't think bullying really happens the way it does in a school setting with kids- largely due to the artificial environment of having people sorted by age groups. So why is this a skill my kids even need to have? (Dealing with bullying).

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So... the subject gets to homeschooling, and she says... that she thinks bullying and teasing are a good thing for kids do deal with, in order to understand and deal with "real life" so she isn't 100% on board with the idea of HSing.

 

That's just ridiculous. I think it's the other way around. Bullying lowers kids self-esteem, injures them mentally and emotionally, and makes it more difficult to have normal relationships later on. I had a really hard time in Jr. High, and my self-image is still damaged. It's not at all conducive to dealing with "real life". :glare:

Edited by bonniebeth4
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I had almost the exact same conversation with my 36yo neighbor. My dd was bullied in Kindergarten. I said something about it just being a rough time and the teacher didn't tell me or address it with me until my dd vomitied on her desk. I went on to tell her how negative it was my for dd's self-esteem, etc... Add to that the fact that the teacher KNEW and didn't tell me, despite my dd missing days for a vague stomach ache, just made me see red.

My neighbor's comment was "...well I just worry about what happens when she gets out into the real word and has to get a job and all."

:001_huh:

Um, yeah, ok.... this correlates HOW exactly? Is she supposed to make bullying into + thing?

But I live in a very "hard" town. My neighbor *is* hard. We live different lives. Of course we have different philosophies in general.

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I too was bullied all through elementary school. Bullying was limiting because I made choices out of fear rather than personal interest. It is one reason, among many, that helped us to decide to homeschool. I want my kids to be free to explore their world, their ideas, their interests, and their friendships.

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I personally disagree with the argument that bullying prepares a child for life.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe there is ever a time in adult life in this country (USA), outside of public school (elementary, middle school, and high school), thanks be to God, where a person is subject to a situation where they are not able to get help or have some recourse against a bully. So I don't see how bullying prepares a person for anything in life.

 

I was bullied and I was so relieved to graduate from high school and go to college, where I actually got to choose my friends and stay away from people who were not friendly.

 

Is there ever a time in adult life in this country where you are forced to socialize and spend so much direct time around people who you do not like, people who do not like you, or people who harass you?

 

I know at work sometimes you cannot choose your colleagues, but if they do anything to threaten you or hurt you they will be in trouble.

 

Children are completely physically, emotionally and intellectually at a disadvantage, placing them in a situation where they endure bullying with no recourse is cruel, and I don't see that it serves as practice for anything.

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Her statement reminds me of a conversation I had with a special ed TEACHER earlier this year.

 

Our son had testing with the school district this past winter and his results were consistent with math and language LDs, in addition to being high functioning, but somewhere on the autism spectrum due to some repetitive and social behaviors. We elected to allow him to attend the special ed classroom at the PS for 2 hours a day. He really did well socially, but academically, I could do more with him at home, so we decided that he wouldn't be coming back in the fall. His teacher was disappointed and said that her recommendation was to integrate him into a regular classroom and, "oh, by the way, 5th graders are being moved to the middle school.":001_huh: That sealed the deal for us. He would not be going back.

 

His teacher went on about how he thrived socially with kids that are "down here" and she held her hand to her waist, "but don't you want him to socialize with the kids up here?" and held her hand above her head. I told her I really didn't care *where* he found his friends, but I didn't think a regular classroom would work form him socially or academically. She simply said, "Isn't that what middle school is for? Getting your hard knocks?" Um, no. Mind you, this is a special ed teacher talking!

 

As someone else said, my husband was also bullied and he is dead set against our son attending school until high school, and hopefully not then.

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Is there ever a time in adult life in this country where you are forced to socialize and spend so much direct time around people who you do not like, people who do not like you, or people who harass you?

 

Jail is the place that comes to mind.

 

I do think there are some people who are stuck in jobs where they are really trapped and don't have many options (my in-laws) and that would be a place where you might be stuck to keep a job. But that's also why we want to be sure our son has a really good education - it gives lots more options.

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It is true Dana, about work being like that sometimes.

 

Perhaps I am being naive, but I guess I meant that even at work the law still works here, and you can report someone who is threatening you or threatening to harm you.

 

Am I naive to think that something gets done about it?

 

Perhaps I am, and I am sorry then, and sorry to hear of adults who do not have any recourse.

 

I just know that I never had any experiences in adult life that were like the experiences I had in school with bullying, thankfully.

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