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He finally is writing, but it is a mess! (dyslexia & dysgraphia)


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Quick background - I pulled my son out of PS 2nd grade a year and a half ago because he was so far behind in reading/writing despite every intervention they could come up with. He was very anxious about all LA work and thought he was dumb. I had to remediate him with phonics and he is now reading pretty well. The writing is ... developing. Six months ago it was pulling teeth to get him to write a three-word sentence because he got so frustrated at not knowing how to do it "right." I worked very hard on decreasing his own expectations and making writing fun. He has made tremendous progress and is now to the point where he will free-write a few sentences in his journal every day and is now writing basic paragraphs for his LA program (CLE 3rd grade LA).

 

The problem is that his actual writing skills are still SO low. I know that I needed to make him relax his standards so he would be comfortable enough to write, but it is still a little distressing to see what he produces. I know I have to start putting more pressure on to write correctly and to try harder on spelling but I don't want him to shut down again. He is doing well with Sequential Spelling but it isn't yet translating to better spelling in his writing (same with grammar, usage, mechanics, etc.) I think it takes everything in him to get the words from his mind to his paper and everything else goes out the window.

 

So here is his latest paragraph - I am so proud of how far he has come, but also so worried about how much work we still have to do. (He was given a topic sentence and had to finish the paragraph).

"James and Alice spent two days at Grandpa's house. at the hass 1 did Brkros shadaheat, So Da Det no wat hpen then So Da Dit Do an sig."

 

Translation: At the house, one died because she had a heart attack. So they didn't know what happened. So they didn't do anything.

 

A few days ago he wrote this one:

 

"I iLck Hrwen becks I sees prepr wess cool ckrosm and I git a lot of cand. And I goen sees Connr."

 

Translation: I like Halloween because I see people with cool costumes and I get a lot of candy. And I am going to see Connor.

 

We have such a long way to go still ...

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Yes, he has a dx of dyslexia and I'm sure he would meet the criteria for dygraphia as well. He's been dx with a number of neuro issues. Late talker (dx with apraxia of speech a while ago), given a very vague dx of "language disorder" when he was 5, further evals showed extremely poor phonological awareness & some problems with sequencing but otherwise a high IQ. He has ADHD on top of it all.

 

He also has Hinman's Syndrome of the bladder and multiple cardiac defects along with a new arrhythmia that's a complication from his last surgery, but those are just bonus issues not related to learning.

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Thank you for the suggestions. We are using CLE LA 3 and it is working very well for him. He gets lots of practice & reinforcement and the pace is just right, so I am not looking to switch. I will look into the inspiration software. I think my dh could even benefit from that as he writes his grad school papers.

 

I have mixed feelings about typing. His hand doesn't get tired, and I think the muscle memory of writing words is important for spelling. Why do you think typing is so important?

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My dd is dyslexic and dysgraphic and her writing was very similar to your son's when she was 11 1/2. What really helped her was tutoring with an Orton Gillingham tutor. The system seemed to really help her spelling and after tutoring she was able to read just about anything. The tutor also had her work on spacing her words and letters appropriately. She would dictate sentences to her based on the spelling words she was learning so that most of the words dd could spell successfully. She would tell her to try to make her letters the same size and that there should be a certain space between words...We did most of our word orally or I would often type or write for her. After tutoring she was obsessed with writing and actually wrote 2 books in a journal of hers. She still spells a lot of things incorrectly but just about anyone could read and understand her writing now.

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My 11yo son is dyslexic and dysgraphic (although the neuropsych suggested the dysgraphia was a result of the dyslexia, not a muscle issue). I can honestly say that time, and directed teaching is going to help. Honestly, you have to keep working, and not comparing. I can say that things WILL improve.

 

I am noticing looking at your son's writing, the majority of his work is in sentences, which is really good. I will say how much I love Verticy/ Writing Skills for helping work on alternative sentence structures, and paragraph structures. I could see this could really help your son.

 

At a more basic level, I am wondering if you are working on the correlation between letter/sound relationships, for example, his choice Hrwen (for Halloween) shows the substitution of r for l, which are the same tongue shape but in different parts of the mouth (I think I got that right). Some people use LIPS for this, Linguistic Remedies/ Wired for Reading are popular in our neck of the woods. Also, my sense looking at the spelling is to wonder what you are doing with phonics-- are you using Barton, Wilson or anything along those lines?

 

 

We are using Verticy, going on our second year, second level. It has honestly been a wonderful curriculum for us. My ds would cry and be in tears (at about 9 yo) if he had to write. Now he can easily write paragraphs (still not his favorite thing) but I now have confidence that he can do it. I think others have commented on Writing Skills (which Verticy uses), but what has been so helpful is the very structured work on identifying complete sentences, and writing those, and then slowly building to writing paragraphs.

 

Finally, I will be a proponent of typing. I am in favor of it for the prime reason that it has freed us all from the majority of spelling issues. Seriously. Ds knows that spellchecker (we use Ginger) is going to fix his spelling issues, he doesn't get paralyzed and stuck trying to puzzle out a word. I don't freak out about his spelling (which I will add is immeasurably improving with NO structured work on spelling on our part). Also, the word processor does automatically help correct initial capitalization issues, along with highlighting in green some of the grammar issues. This is giving my ds both independence, and me the ability to help him focus on writing, and not fretting about spelling, punctuation.

 

I will also add that ds hated to learn to type. I sent him to an almost bootcamp class (within the first day he had learned the entire keyboard), but I wanted him typing as soon as possible. We are both now so glad he did that because he uses it in all his subjects now.

 

And :grouphug:. I do know this very feeling of freaking out, and tremendous worry, but these days I feel so very much more optimistic. Hang in there, things are, and will improve.

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Hi Andrea,

 

Can he do copywork? I'm wondering if you could separate the tasks of coming up with ideas and organizing thoughts from the physical act of writing by scribing for him. Then, he could copy what you have written into his own hand. Would that work for him?

 

If possible, let him know when he copies that he needs to say the sounds as he writes (to help reinforce the sound to symbol correspondence). I notice that at least some of his errors are not phonetic (the "r" in Halloween), and it might help for him to slow down and think about the sounds separately from trying to come up with words.

 

However...he really HAS come a long way, and that is worth celebrating! You are doing a great job, he'll get there! Merry :-)

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At a more basic level, I am wondering if you are working on the correlation between letter/sound relationships, for example, his choice Hrwen (for Halloween) shows the substitution of r for l, which are the same tongue shape but in different parts of the mouth (I think I got that right). Some people use LIPS for this, Linguistic Remedies/ Wired for Reading are popular in our neck of the woods. Also, my sense looking at the spelling is to wonder what you are doing with phonics-- are you using Barton, Wilson or anything along those lines?

 

Oh, where to start. He definitely has difficulty discerning sounds in words. His articulation is also poor and this is something we have done years of therapy for with little improvement. He also did 5 months of O-G tutoring (1 hr day/5 days week) which led to MORE anxiety and negative self-image.

 

We are taking a therapy break and are working on phonological awareness through our spelling lessons (about 30 min. each day). We did AAS for a year but he couldn't achieve mastery of the rules to keep progressing. We have moved to Sequential Spelling and his improvement in this area has been AMAZING. He does add the letter "r" randomly and I tease him about becoming president and ordering that all words should have an r in them.

 

Although he has passed several hearing tests, he has to read my lips to accurately discern the sounds I am saying when he is taking dictation. I am pretty confident that it is a processing issue and not a hearing issue. He has abysmal scores in auditory memory, and he has a lot of trouble "hearing" a word in his head to break down the spelling, plus he pronounces it incorrectly anyway so what he does "hear" is often not accurate! Consequently, he does even worse spelling on his own than when he is spelling from dictation.

 

I feel like I know where his gaps are, and have addressed what can be "fixed" through an educational approach (learning the phonograms, learning rules). I'm doing my best to help him with his phonological awareness because I know that is what is holding him back, but I am not interested in another big formal program. I still hurt over how much time and how many thousands of dollars we wasted on the O-G tutoring, and how after five months they told me there was nothing else they could do except worry about him because he kept saying he wanted to kill himself. At age seven.

 

I think others have commented on Writing Skills (which Verticy uses), but what has been so helpful is the very structured work on identifying complete sentences, and writing those, and then slowly building to writing paragraphs.

 

CLE does this as well. When he really applies himself he can do much better, but when he rushes he spits out the stuff in my opening post. He is able to diagram basic sentences, identify several parts of speech (nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, pronouns, articles) and I am just really happy with how CLE progresses. He knows more than his writing samples reflect, kwim? If I prompt him, such as "'ck comes after a _____? (short vowel) Right, so it can never be used at the ______? (Beginning of a word) Right." He can fix his errors.

 

Finally, I will be a proponent of typing. I am in favor of it for the prime reason that it has freed us all from the majority of spelling issues. Seriously. Ds knows that spellchecker (we use Ginger) is going to fix his spelling issues, he doesn't get paralyzed and stuck trying to puzzle out a word. I don't freak out about his spelling (which I will add is immeasurably improving with NO structured work on spelling on our part). Also, the word processor does automatically help correct initial capitalization issues, along with highlighting in green some of the grammar issues. This is giving my ds both independence, and me the ability to help him focus on writing, and not fretting about spelling, punctuation.

 

Given that ds is volunteering to write without any coercion, I don't yet see the need for typing, but I will keep an open mind.

 

Thank you for your thoughts!

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Hi Merry! We have done daily dictation/copywork until recently (he would dictate, I would type using StartWrite and print it out, and then he would copy). Honestly I didn't see any improvement in his skills. I still scribe for him with book reports and that's fine. He's very proud of his finished product.

 

We constantly dialog over our spelling lesson about the MANDATORY STEPS :lol:

 

1. Repeat the word I've said

2. Say it slowly

3. Say the sounds

4. Say the sounds slowly as you write

5. Read the word you wrote. Does it match?

 

Even with me right next to him he often rushes ahead and starts writing the letters he thinks belong in the word and I have to make him re-start. I think it's part of his impulsiveness. When I am not sitting there to remind him he just merrily writes away without even thinking about the steps. He is SO compliant and cooperative that I don't want to crack down on him too hard, but maybe I should do a little incentive plan. Every time he uses the 5 steps without prompting I could make a tic mark and then if he gets a certain number there's a reward.

 

He currently has a love affair with the letter r. He inserts is VERY OFTEN where it has no business being. Even today when he had to write the word "stood" he first wrote "strood." I had him read the word he wrote and he caught it immediately, but he does this so often! I just want him to try a little harder during the assignments, and he can write whatever way he wants in his journal.

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Hi Paz,

 

Thank you for sharing your daughter's success. We did do O-G but it was not the right program for him (more about that in my reply to one_l_michele). I got him reading last year so maybe this will be the year for spelling. Of course if you asked anyone in my dh's family, they would shake their heads and say he's cursed by the Lindgren genes. I hope he develops a passion for writing so that he will be self-motivated to improve. He did write his sister a birthday card without any prompting and it was very sweet.

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[quote name=ondreeuh;2143770

CLE does this as well. When he really applies himself he can do much better' date=' but when he rushes he spits out the stuff in my opening post. He is able to diagram basic sentences, identify several parts of speech (nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, pronouns, articles) and I am just really happy with how CLE progresses. He knows more than his writing samples reflect, kwim? If I prompt him, such as "'ck comes after a _____? (short vowel) Right, so it can never be used at the ______? (Beginning of a word) Right." He can fix his errors.

 

 

I used CLE for my son with lds last year and for my daughter. My daughter has continued because it is a good fit for her, but I've found something else that works better for my son. CLE actually has very little writing and is not meant to be a complete writing program. You might think about adding something like the Writing Skills program to CLE when you think he is ready.

 

Lisa

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