New DOE standardization of high school diploma

[Maryalice]

This document is causing some concern. The issue of standardizing high school diplomas may become a problem when the DOE gets involved. They are proposing a DOE maintained list of acceptable high schools for colleges and universities to check. I do not see how homeschools will fit into the new standards.

 

p. 20

 

http://www.nasfaa.org/PDFs/2010/PILinkedNPRM.pdf

[8filltheheart]

This document is causing some concern. The issue of standardizing high school diplomas may become a problem when the DOE gets involved. They are proposing a DOE maintained list of acceptable high schools for colleges and universities to check. I do not see how homeschools will fit into the new standards.

 

p. 20

 

http://www.nasfaa.org/PDFs/2010/PILinkedNPRM.pdf

 

I agree. It sounds like it would also apply to a lot of the smaller, non-accredited private schools as well.

 

It seems to me that the attempt is to control education on the federal level via the flow of $$. It would seem that a less invasive and more logical approach would be to tie continued loan qualifications to GPAs at the higher level institution (an easily monitored situation at the university level) than attempt to regulate every single high school in the country.

 

But far be it for a logical, easily accessible approach be taken. (FWIW.....TN already does this in regards to the HOPE scholarship $$)

[In The Great White North]

It sounds like a back-door route to outlawing homeschooling by denying Federal Student Aid to anyone who does not go to a school on their list.

[FaithManor]

This is a huge RED FLAG to me!

 

Besides the fact that the DOE is definitely likely to use this a back door way to regulate homeschooling, it's so hypocritical. I can guarantee that our local public high school would be on the list and they let kids graduate that can't even read on a 5th grade level nor are capable of actually doing long division by hand or adding and subtracting simple fractions. As far as I am concerned, a diploma from C.C.High is virtually worthless because there is no distinction between the diploma for the kid that took all college prep courses and was an honor roll student and the one that is illiterate. The diplomas are all the same and the school does not suffer any wrath for it's population of illiterate alumni!

 

Faith

[Elizabeth in WA]

HSLDA's take is that this is a major power grab with respect to regulating higher education: http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/201010250.asp

 

I haven't had time to read the whole thing yet to form a clear opinion, but there do seem to be ways to demonstrate "ability to benefit" beyond possession of a high school diploma, so I am less worried about that part so far.

[Corraleno]

This document is causing some concern. The issue of standardizing high school diplomas may become a problem when the DOE gets involved. They are proposing a DOE maintained list of acceptable high schools for colleges and universities to check. I do not see how homeschools will fit into the new standards.

 

Actually, the "standardization" aspect of the proposed regulations are directed at colleges, not high schools. The 2 sections that seemed to directly apply to homeschoolers, "Evaluating the Validity of High School Diplomas" and "Ability to Benefit," both include explicit wording that a home school diploma is acceptable. The section on high school diplomas seems to be directed at weeding out diploma mills that sell bogus diplomas; that's the point of the "approved" and "disapproved" lists, not to pass judgement on the quality of individual public schools, or to exclude homeschoolers. Here is the passage from the section on Evaluating the Validity of High School Diplomas:

In order to be eligible to receive title IV, HEA aid, current §668.32(e) (Student eligibility) requires a student to have a high school diploma or its recognized equivalent, have completed secondary school in a home school setting, or pass an independently administered examination approved by the Secretary.

This part of the regulation would not change; the new proposal adds that the college would be required to check the validity of any diploma from a secondary school that seemed suspicious. The text on the HSLDA website expresses concern about the effect of the regulations on private colleges, but they don't indicate any concern about it's effect on homeschooling.

 

Jackie

[RanchGirl]

the Feds messing around with K-12 has been so successful, why not expand their regulatory influence to pre-K and college level?

 

/end sarcasm.

[8filltheheart]

Actually, the "standardization" aspect of the proposed regulations are directed at colleges, not high schools. The 2 sections that seemed to directly apply to homeschoolers, "Evaluating the Validity of High School Diplomas" and "Ability to Benefit," both include explicit wording that a home school diploma is acceptable. The section on high school diplomas seems to be directed at weeding out diploma mills that sell bogus diplomas; that's the point of the "approved" and "disapproved" lists, not to pass judgement on the quality of individual public schools, or to exclude homeschoolers. Here is the passage from the section on Evaluating the Validity of High School Diplomas:

 

In order to be eligible to receive title IV, HEA aid, current §668.32(e) (Student eligibility) requires a student to have a high school diploma or its recognized equivalent, have completed secondary school in a home school setting, or pass an independently administered examination approved by the Secretary.

 

This part of the regulation would not change; the new proposal adds that the college would be required to check the validity of any diploma from a secondary school that seemed suspicious. The text on the HSLDA website expresses concern about the effect of the regulations on private colleges, but they don't indicate any concern about it's effect on homeschooling.

 

Jackie

 

Jackie,

 

When I read it, the part bolded in your post referred to the current language. The new proposal excludes any reference to homeschoolers and only refers to valid high school diploma.

 

That is what concerns me. Unis used to (and many still do) refuse financial aid to homeschoolers w/o a GED (read the thread on the college board about CNU). If homeschooling is removed from the language and replaced with the wording of the new proposal, I can't see how it won't have repercussion on homeschoolers.

 

Current Regulations: The current

regulations do not define the term ‘‘high

school diploma’’ or otherwise include

provisions regarding the evaluation of

the validity of a student’s high school

diploma. While the term recognized

equivalent of a high school diploma is

defined in 34 CFR 600.2 (Definitions),

the term ‘‘high school diploma’’ is not

defined anywhere in the HEA or its

implementing regulations.

 

Proposed Regulations: Under

proposed § 668.16(p), an institution

would be required to develop and

follow procedures to evaluate the

validity of a student’s high school

completion if the institution or the

Secretary has reason to believe that the

high school diploma is not valid or was

not obtained from an entity that

provides secondary school education.

Edited November 2, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[Corraleno]

When I read it, the part bolded in your post referred to the current language. The new proposal excludes any reference to homeschoolers and only refers to valid high school diploma.

The wording of the new regulation says:

We propose adding paragraph (p) to §668.16 to provide that it is the institution’s responsibility to evaluate the validity of the diploma if either the institution or the Secretary believes that a closer examination of the diploma is warranted.

In other words, the new regulation would be added to the existing regulation, but would not replace it. So the wording to include home school in 668.32(e) would remain as is, along with the wording allowing college entrance by examination. And the colleges are only required to check out a "secondary institution" if they're suspicious the diploma is bogus. Colleges are already free to question a homeschooler's diploma, and ask for additional SATII tests, a few non-mommy grades, etc., so I honestly don't see how this would impact homeschoolers.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

They are proposing a DOE maintained list of acceptable high schools for colleges and universities to check.

To clarify, the original proposal was for the individual colleges to maintain a list of acceptable/unacceptable schools and the colleges requested that the DOE maintain a centralized list instead.

 

There really is a huge problem in this country with "diploma mills" offering fake high school and college diplomas over the internet — this is a billion dollar industry and has been the subject of several Congressional Hearings and FBI sting operations. Some of the mills claim they only offer the certificate "for novelty purposes," but others claim to offer a "recognized diploma" based on "life experience" or a brief online test. These include fake transcripts, complete with grades. (Do you balance your checkbook every month? You get an A in Consumer Math! Do you cook? You get an A in Chemistry! Ever watch the news? A+ in Current Global Issues!) Belford High School is an example of a company offering what they call an "accredited" HS diploma for $249. (They list 2 bogus accrediting agencies.) They provide complete, graded transcripts and even "Honors Certificates." This is the kind of thing the DOE regulations are aimed at, not homeschoolers.

 

Jackie

[Guest Martin999]

DOE needs to do a good job here. Homeschoolers, traditional schools and virtual schools all need to be recognized with a balance. Even diploma mills who are actually gaining reputations and providing proper education now need to be given some weightage. Many virtual schools have also gained reputation and still remain unrecognized. These institutes are bringing in great traffic and probably something is being done correct at their end as well. DOE before considering all of them illegitimate, needs to dig deeper and understand their reasons for being successful and what positives do they have at the ground level.

[8filltheheart]

The wording of the new regulation says:

 

In other words, the new regulation would be added to the existing regulation, but would not replace it. So the wording to include home school in 668.32(e) would remain as is, along with the wording allowing college entrance by examination. And the colleges are only required to check out a "secondary institution" if they're suspicious the diploma is bogus. Colleges are already free to question a homeschooler's diploma, and ask for additional SATII tests, a few non-mommy grades, etc., so I honestly don't see how this would impact homeschoolers.

 

Jackie

 

I went back and read that section. I missed that part where it was adding that section.

 

I still have major concerns over this, however. I am a skeptic. :D

 

I received an email from Cardinal Newman Society yesterday about concerns that this will impact the freedoms of Catholic universities via regulations that directly conflict with Catholic identity and make their educational philosophies a target for attempted control.

 

Manassas, Va. -- In its latest threat to the religious liberty and independence of Catholic colleges and universities, the Obama administration has issued new regulations that open the door to possible state intrusion into curriculum, student policies and hiring decisions.

 

The regulations issued Friday effectively force many states to increase oversight of postsecondary education through state chartering or licensing, which is a necessary condition for colleges to participate in federal student aid programs.

 

Most Catholic colleges accept low-cost federal student loans and grants. If forced to forego federal aid, these colleges would be at a disadvantage in recruiting students.

 

"The door is opened for state politicians and bureaucrats who would impose their social agendas on private and religious colleges," warned Patrick J. Reilly, President of The Cardinal Newman Society.

 

"Already the Obama administration has seized direct ownership of student loans, and now a college's eligibility for student loans is subject to the political whims of its state legislators and regulators. Many states have demonstrated callous disregard for the religious identity of Catholic colleges, from mandating contraceptive coverage in student and employee health plans to requiring employee benefits for same-sex couples."

 

Although the Higher Education Act has long required state authorization for a college to participate in federal aid programs, many states do not aggressively monitor colleges and their consent was assumed unless otherwise reported to the U.S. Education Department. The new regulations require state approval of colleges "by name" and a state process "to review and appropriately act on" complaints about any approved institution.

 

When issuing the regulations Friday, the Education Department acknowledged that it had received complaints from college leaders that "a State's role may extend into defining, for example, curriculum, teaching methods, subject matter content, faculty qualifications, and learning outcomes." Others feared that states might "impose homogeneity upon institutions that would compromise their unique missions."

 

In response, federal officials agreed that the new regulations do "not limit a State's oversight of institutions."

 

 

The bolded part is alarming in regards to non-homogenuous higher education.

Edited November 3, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[TravelingChris]

Some non religious schools and a Presbyterian school have withdrawn from Federal funds to have freedom. I am specifically thinking about Hillsdale, Grove City and Patrick Henry. SO any Catholic colleges that want to be independent need to do that.

[8filltheheart]

Some non religious schools and a Presbyterian school have withdrawn from Federal funds to have freedom. I am specifically thinking about Hillsdale, Grove City and Patrick Henry. SO any Catholic colleges that want to be independent need to do that.

 

I'm going to have to research this further, but I do not believe it is federal funding that they receive. (If that is the case, I agree with you.) However, I think it is now that student loans are no longer privatized and are now all federally controlled and so no student can take out a college loan that isn't connected to the federal gov't. I think (I am not positive) that it is that they accept student financial aid.

 

If there is complete gov't control over all college loans and those loans can only be used by approved schools, it will skew higher education to only that which has "gov't approval."

 

I refuse to discuss the political implications of that on this forum. However, mandates have consequences. If private industry can provide college loans for private institutions, than I have no problems with that route. However, if private companies cannot provide college loans for private choice, I do have a serious problem with that.

[TravelingChris]

NO, it is not true that all college loans are made by the govermment. Only Federal college loans are like the Stafford loans. Those colleges do not participate in the federal loan program or the federal aid program. They have their own aid programs. I think that all three are lower cost than most private schools.

[Guest Michellebrian]

Reading the bold part above, I feel DOE is going perfect about it. Autonomy for visions helps people differentiate between the better and the best. Not just that, it also helps in brewing competition. These standards and a university’s evaluation makes it extremely challenging for even good institute to maintain their standards. That’s brilliant in fact. It would have been miserably wrong had it been otherwise.

[8filltheheart]

NO, it is not true that all college loans are made by the govermment. Only Federal college loans are like the Stafford loans. Those colleges do not participate in the federal loan program or the federal aid program. They have their own aid programs. I think that all three are lower cost than most private schools.

 

Ok.

 

I haven't had time to look into it. I get really :banghead: when it comes to the entire college loan process, anyway. But, regardless, I question linking college loans to "gov't approved" universities.

[FaithManor]

Hillsdale in Michigan, about a three hour drive from us, does not receive federal and state funds at all. So, when it comes to financial aid, the students do not receive from those sources. However, they are very generous with privately donated forms of financial aid...grants, scholarships, work on campus, etc. Total cost with room, board, tuition, and fees was about $28,500.00 this year which is $7,000.00 per year less than my alma mater which is a private institution.

 

Hillsdale has an amazing reputation in the humanities, poli-sci, pre-law, history, etc.

 

Faith