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I just moved into a new home. A baptist preacher and a neighbor just dropped by this evening inviting me to their fall festival, or any future activities, as well. (the Baptists have awesome fellowshipping skills, btw) I told them I was a Mormon, but maybe I would come out sometime. (I could tell the preacher was disappointed, but my neighbor didn't miss a beat ;)

 

I would like to come out to meet the people that live around us and make friends, but I'm thinking that would be inappropriate and that I should meet people a different way than showing up to their church functions.

 

Which leads me to my question:

 

At my previous home last summer I was invited to the VBS at the local Baptist church. We went and the kids had a blast. However, I know VBS costs the church money. At the beginning of each VBS day the preacher would give a short sermon and then they would pass around the plate. This was HIGHLY uncomfortable (we don't do it that way at my church) and I felt super guilty for participating in the program without paying. If there was an upfront fee for participation, no problem. But it goes against principle to donate to another church. It was all just awkward. After the first day we would just arrive really late to miss that part.

 

So, I realize it would probably be inappropriate to start coming to all of their activities outside of church. I would just be freeloading. And that fact that I was Mormon would probably make waves there. However, is it inappropriate to attend VBS next summer without donating money? It seems wrong.

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Most churches offer VBS as an outreach/ministry to the community and don't expect any money for attending. Often, they do take up an offering, but it's not usually for the church/VBS costs--it's usually for a missions project or to donate to a local charity (in my experience). So I wouldn't feel bad at all about it if I were you.

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All the VBS's that I've been to pass the collection plate around for a worthy cause...usually a missionary or some sort of ministry project. It is not to offset the cost of VBS. Although I guess anything is possible. Did the preacher say that or did you just assume that? I wouldn't feel bad not to put anything in it and I can't believe anyone would expect you to.

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Whenever an offering is taken at our church, the pastor mentions to guests that it's for the church family and they aren't to participate unless the Lord leads them. It's the responsibility of the church family to pick up the costs.

 

Feel free to participate in VBS or whatever activity without the guilt. The last time I looked there was no 11th commandment stating "Thou shalt drop your money in the offering plate at all times."

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All the VBS's that I've been to pass the collection plate around for a worthy cause...usually a missionary or some sort of ministry project. It is not to offset the cost of VBS. Although I guess anything is possible. Did the preacher say that or did you just assume that? I wouldn't feel bad not to put anything in it and I can't believe anyone would expect you to.

 

As I was talking to some of the adults outside, before it started, the preacher walked by and said, "I guess we need to get started so I can get paid!" So when the plate was passed around I was under the impression that this was his income and that he needed reimbursed for the program he just purchased at the local Christian store.

 

I think that is what made me really uncomfortable, as our local church leaders don't get paid anything. Our activities come out of our church family budget as well, but we never purchase pre-made activities; instead we make them up from scratch, which I'm assuming would be much less expensive.

 

I guess if it is the church family's budget, then I can see how I shouldn't worry about attending the activities. If it were the other way around, we would love for Baptists to attend our activities! Even if they didn't come to church on Sunday or pay tithing.

 

So if you guys say it's fine, I'll try not to worry about it. Thanks!

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As I was talking to some of the adults outside, before it started, the preacher walked by and said, "I guess we need to get started so I can get paid!" So when the plate was passed around I was under the impression that this was his income and that he needed reimbursed for the program he just purchased at the local Christian store.

 

That sounds like a joke to me! Evidently inappropriate since it was so mistaken.

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As I was talking to some of the adults outside, before it started, the preacher walked by and said, "I guess we need to get started so I can get paid!" So when the plate was passed around I was under the impression that this was his income and that he needed reimbursed for the program he just purchased at the local Christian store.

 

I think that is what made me really uncomfortable, as our local church leaders don't get paid anything. Our activities come out of our church family budget as well, but we never purchase pre-made activities; instead we make them up from scratch, which I'm assuming would be much less expensive.

 

I guess if it is the church family's budget, then I can see how I shouldn't worry about attending the activities. If it were the other way around, we would love for Baptists to attend our activities! Even if they didn't come to church on Sunday or pay tithing.

 

So if you guys say it's fine, I'll try not to worry about it. Thanks!

 

Definitely a joke.

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That sounds like a joke to me! Evidently inappropriate since it was so mistaken.

 

:iagree: I have been in several churches who do VBS, and EVERY single one of them took up an offering ONLY for a missions project of some sort - not a dime went in the normal church budget. You shouldn't feel obligated to give anyway.

 

I think a fall festival would be a good way to meet people. It's in no way a commitment to attend the church and it should be a relaxed time.

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As I was talking to some of the adults outside, before it started, the preacher walked by and said, "I guess we need to get started so I can get paid!" So when the plate was passed around I was under the impression that this was his income and that he needed reimbursed for the program he just purchased at the local Christian store.

 

I think that is what made me really uncomfortable, as our local church leaders don't get paid anything. Our activities come out of our church family budget as well, but we never purchase pre-made activities; instead we make them up from scratch, which I'm assuming would be much less expensive.

 

I guess if it is the church family's budget, then I can see how I shouldn't worry about attending the activities. If it were the other way around, we would love for Baptists to attend our activities! Even if they didn't come to church on Sunday or pay tithing.

 

So if you guys say it's fine, I'll try not to worry about it. Thanks!

Totally a joke. I can see my pastor saying this because he is a joking kind of person.:001_smile:

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So how does it work at most churches? Is not the preacher paid?

 

Most pastors are paid -- a salary. Based on the offering taken up on Sundays (Or however the church handles their offerings). Many see their income cut when tithing drops off because it is one of the few expenses that can be cut, unfortunately.

 

Not all are paid. Some, especially of small churches, are "tentmakers" that do the preaching on top of a day job that pays the bills (this is my BIL)

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Most churches offer VBS as an outreach/ministry to the community and don't expect any money for attending. Often, they do take up an offering, but it's not usually for the church/VBS costs--it's usually for a missions project or to donate to a local charity (in my experience). So I wouldn't feel bad at all about it if I were you.

 

:iagree:

 

Whenever an offering is taken at our church, the pastor mentions to guests that it's for the church family and they aren't to participate unless the Lord leads them. It's the responsibility of the church family to pick up the costs.

:iagree:

 

(Regarding comment from pastor about being paid) Definitely a joke.

 

Again, :iagree:.

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hmsmith

 

I am a member at a Baptist church. Our church is very active and has TONS of things for children to do. We also pay so a great many kids around here who do not attend our church (just the fun stuff) can go do all the fun stuff we do. We don't pay to make them feel bad. We don't invite people to guilt them. We do this, because as Christians we are supposed to love each other. We do this, because we love you, even if we disagree with you.

 

Please do not feel guilty. You'll run into congregants that grumble. They have spiritual issues they need to work out. Please, don't let them turn you away.

 

Speaking as a soon to be AWANA T&T leader, I'm telling you. We sponsor you, because we love you. We plan events, because we love you. We want your children there and we do NOT want money to be an issue.

 

:grouphug:

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Definitely go!! Those churches fund their activities through the budgetary process (including the pastor's salaries) that come from tithes and offerings. MOST churches do collections at special events for missions work, be it community care, mission work, etc.

 

Go - have fun, enjoy what they have to offer. It's what they're doing it for. Sure..there's a bit of mission work going on, :P but it's for fellowship and outreach and community service, cause we like to do that!

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You should go and not worry about the money. Churches put money into community events in order to establish a relationship with the community. Visitors to the churches "free events" are not expected to chip in for an offering.

:iagree: At our church, we just want people to come. The more the merrier! I don't think you should feel bad at all about going and not giving money.

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Whew! I feel so much better. I just didn't know how it worked and I sure was confused by the preacher's statement. It never occurred to me that he might be joking. Thank you for explaining it to me. Maybe I will go out and meet people at their church functions! Yay! Sounds like fun. :001_smile:

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Most churches offer VBS as an outreach/ministry to the community and don't expect any money for attending. Often, they do take up an offering, but it's not usually for the church/VBS costs--it's usually for a missions project or to donate to a local charity (in my experience). So I wouldn't feel bad at all about it if I were you.

:iagree:

This is what our church does.

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As I was talking to some of the adults outside, before it started, the preacher walked by and said, "I guess we need to get started so I can get paid!" So when the plate was passed around I was under the impression that this was his income and that he needed reimbursed for the program he just purchased at the local Christian store.

 

I think that is what made me really uncomfortable, as our local church leaders don't get paid anything. Our activities come out of our church family budget as well, but we never purchase pre-made activities; instead we make them up from scratch, which I'm assuming would be much less expensive.

 

I guess if it is the church family's budget, then I can see how I shouldn't worry about attending the activities. If it were the other way around, we would love for Baptists to attend our activities! Even if they didn't come to church on Sunday or pay tithing.

 

So if you guys say it's fine, I'll try not to worry about it. Thanks!

 

I'll be the dissenter. :D

 

If you have moral issues with donating a couple of dollars to the church, then you shouldn't attend activities there. (Now, if you didn't want to pay because of financial issues, I'd have an entirely different opinion.)

 

And I disagree that Mormons "never purchase pre-made activities." Have you never been to Deseret Book? And in churches that have a less centralized structure than Mormonism (and that's pretty much everyone except possibly Catholics), there is no manual or Primary program that gets shipped out from SLC. Local congregations buy those themselves. Sometimes from web sites, sometimes from local Christian bookstores.

 

Now, I agree with other posters that churches like to provide VBS as a service. But if you are thinking your church is superior to theirs because your bishop isn't paid and their pastor is, and so you couldn't possibly support the church with a few dollars . . . then, yes, I think it's wrong to go.

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I've had pastors say it. And speakers in other situations. "Got to go do the day job" type of joke.

I'm surprised more of you have not heard that expression before. I've never heard if from a priest/pastor, but I've heard it plenty from other people about to start their job.

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I'll be the dissenter. :D

 

If you have moral issues with donating a couple of dollars to the church, then you shouldn't attend activities there. (Now, if you didn't want to pay because of financial issues, I'd have an entirely different opinion.)

 

And I disagree that Mormons "never purchase pre-made activities." Have you never been to Deseret Book? And in churches that have a less centralized structure than Mormonism (and that's pretty much everyone except possibly Catholics), there is no manual or Primary program that gets shipped out from SLC. Local congregations buy those themselves. Sometimes from web sites, sometimes from local Christian bookstores.

 

Now, I agree with other posters that churches like to provide VBS as a service. But if you are thinking your church is superior to theirs because your bishop isn't paid and their pastor is, and so you couldn't possibly support the church with a few dollars . . . then, yes, I think it's wrong to go.

 

I don't recall the OP saying she believed her church was "morally superior" because of having a lay clergy. Just that, not being used to having a paid clergy, she wasn't sure how other churches functioned financially, and what the "etiquette" related to it is (like paying for VBS or not).

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I don't recall the OP saying she believed her church was "morally superior" because of having a lay clergy. Just that, not being used to having a paid clergy, she wasn't sure how other churches functioned financially, and what the "etiquette" related to it is (like paying for VBS or not).

 

These were the comments from the OP that made me think she might have an issue with the idea of a paid clergy:

 

If there was an upfront fee for participation, no problem. But it goes against principle to donate to another church. (post #1)

 

I think that is what made me really uncomfortable, as our local church leaders don't get paid anything. (post #6)

 

But I'll admit that I could be misunderstanding the OP's position or attitude (which is why I did say "if" in my post). I have Mormon family members for whom the idea of paid clergy is a big deal, so that might be tainting how I read the OP's posts.

 

I stand by my statement that IF a person has a problem with the idea of supporting a church with money, that person probably should not participate in the programs offered by that church.

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Not to hijack but do LDS members have a specific issue with contributing financially to another church?

 

It's neither here nor there for me but an acquaintance from co-op who is usually an easy going gal is a little up in arms about fundraising at our co-op. She is very concerned that the money might be going to the church where we meet. I didn't quite understand but maybe now I do.

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I don't recall the OP saying she believed her church was "morally superior" because of having a lay clergy. Just that, not being used to having a paid clergy, she wasn't sure how other churches functioned financially, and what the "etiquette" related to it is (like paying for VBS or not).

 

:iagree: That's what I meant. I don't look down on other churches because they don't run the same way. Why would that matter?

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:iagree: That's what I meant. I don't look down on other churches because they don't run the same way. Why would that matter?

 

Honestly, I think it's sort of poor form to take services from a church (when you are capable of contributing to the cost of those services), and not contribute because you don't feel comfortable donating to a church outside of your own denomination. Basically: you're okay with another denomination providing spiritual education to your children, but you're not willing to help fund that education because it's outside of your spiritual education?

 

It's like saying "oh, that restaurant is giving away free hot dogs? Great! We'll take two. We won't contribute to the fundraiser they're doing because we don't eat meat." Or something.

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Not to hijack but do LDS members have a specific issue with contributing financially to another church?

 

It's neither here nor there for me but an acquaintance from co-op who is usually an easy going gal is a little up in arms about fundraising at our co-op. She is very concerned that the money might be going to the church where we meet. I didn't quite understand but maybe now I do.

 

I do have a problem with contributing financially to another church, as I pay my tithing to my own church . I would be promoting a doctrine I do not fully agree with and that would be dishonest, would it not? Maybe I'm wrong on my stance. I've never really put much thought into actually.

 

However, like one poster said, I do not mind donating to charities, or even VBS if asked. I appreciate the efforts of other denominations in promoting the Bible and bringing people to Christ and encouraging them to change their lives in accordance with the commandments, and their humanitarian efforts. I praise the efforts of the JW that go door to door encouraging people to read the Bible. We NEED the cause of Christianity and the goodness it promotes in our communities. However, deeper than that, on a doctrinal level, we diverge in some foundational beliefs. On that level I do not support them.

 

So I have one vote saying it's not right to go to functions if I'm not willing to support their clergy. Anyone else? Is it wrong for me to go to fall festival, or any activities, at the Baptist church down the road? :tongue_smilie:

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Honestly, I think it's sort of poor form to take services from a church (when you are capable of contributing to the cost of those services), and not contribute because you don't feel comfortable donating to a church outside of your own denomination. Basically: you're okay with another denomination providing spiritual education to your children, but you're not willing to help fund that education because it's outside of your spiritual education?

 

It's like saying "oh, that restaurant is giving away free hot dogs? Great! We'll take two. We won't contribute to the fundraiser they're doing because we don't eat meat." Or something.

 

This may be true; what I'm trying to find out. However, I stuck around and listened to what they were teaching at VBS and doctrinally it stayed on the surface of things. We weren't there for the spiritual education part of it anyway. We went simply because we were invited.

 

So that's two votes?

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I do have a problem with contributing financially to another church, as I pay my tithing to my own church . I would be promoting a doctrine I do not fully agree with and that would be dishonest, would it not? Maybe I'm wrong on my stance. I've never really put much thought into actually.

 

I don't think you are wrong. I am Catholic and used to being misunderstood so I was just trying to extend an understanding to my LDS acquaintance :) Even though I support my own parish and diocese with tithing I have never hesitated to give a small donation toward things at other churches. I guess I see the good these churches do even if I disagree with some doctrine. I don't think your stance is wrong, though.

 

Sorry I don't have something more to offer to the original question. Personally, I think it is fine to attend the festival and VBS but I am not from that particular faith culture so my vote is uninformed.

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This may be true; what I'm trying to find out. However, I stuck around and listened to what they were teaching at VBS and doctrinally it stayed on the surface of things. We weren't there for the spiritual education part of it anyway. We went simply because we were invited.

 

So that's two votes?

 

Just to be clear: you're okay with paying for VBS supplies, but not the pastor's salary? I've only attended Methodist churches, and it never occurred to me to want to differentiate where my funds went ("I'm okay with paying the minister's salary, but I disagree with the current Mission plan."). It's all the same money - if you threw all the change in the pot and then redistributed it, would you know that your quarters paid salary rather than supplies, or heat or air conditioning, or something else?

 

That said, I don't really understand the point of sending children to Vacation BIBLE school if not for spiritual education.

 

The point of the Fall Festival is fun and games and possibly good public relations - the church wants the public to come to those things: then other people get to know that particular church and possible get a little money to come in (since often there is food for sale or something). I think it's perfectly fine (and most likely encouraged) to attend those kind of activities and others like them (Pancake Breakfasts, Roast chicken dinners, Rummage Sales, etc) regardless of your religious background. You just have to know that the point of those things is to benefit the church financially somehow. It might be buying a new furnace, or funding a mission activity, or repairing the roof.

 

I'm looking at this like a consumer: if I'm not willing to support Wal-Mart, then it doesn't matter how great their pancakes are - I'm not buying them. If I really disagreed with the policies or belief systems of a church/denomination, I wouldn't be there - even for free stuff.

 

It sounds, however, that most other people think it's perfectly okay for you to go to VBS even if you don't share the same beliefs. This is VERY different from some of my devout friends who absolutely do NOT allow their children to attend other religious services until they're very well versed in their own. If MY way is the only way to heaven, then I don't want that muddied up with other paths. KWIM?

 

Sincerely,

The agnostic.

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Baptist churches want people who do not share their beliefs to come to their fall festivals and VBS programs. Really. In the churches I've been a part of, I think the people would feel that a program was a flop if only people from their church participated. You would be welcomed and not in any way be looked at as a freeloader. The money raised at VBS's usually go to missions, as others have said. The purchase of the supplies and the salaries of paid staff come from different parts of the budget and the money should not mingle. But- if you strongly believe in not supporting the spread of the Baptist doctrine, or doctrine of whatever church you are at, then you may want to find out exactly what charity the money is going to. Many times it will be to sponsor missionaries of that particular faith and not organizations that provide charity with no religious agenda.

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I just stumbled across this thread while I was looking for something else. I hope resurrecting it after a couple of days isn't too much of a problem, I just thought maybe another LDS point of view might be helpful to the OP.

 

One thought I had was that if the person inviting you is a friend, you could ask them how this would be viewed at their church. It's not necessarily the kind of thing that would be the same from one Baptist church to another, and your friend would likely be able to give you some insight into proper ettiquette for her specific church. If the person is not a friend, but more of an acquaintance, and you're not comfortable asking that kind of question yet, you could call up the church's office and just explain the situation to the church secretary (or whoever answers the phone) and then ask them your question.

 

Having lived a number of years in the "Bible Belt" I would guess that the fall festival is intended as a community event where friends and neighbors are welcome as guests. Kind of like if your family invites the neighbors over for dinner you don't expect them to chip in on your grocery bill.

 

I don't know about the VBS, though. When we lived there we didn't have kids that age. But it's something you could definitely ask about. From hearing it talked about, I would guess that some churches view VBS as a laid back, fun, Bible-themed community outreach program for kids, and the more guests the merrier (with the general hope that at least some of those kids and their families will start attending the church regularly after tasting the free sample, but also with the understanding that some people are just there to be neighborly), but other churches have seemed to view it more as an opportunity for serious religious education (in which case they might be expecting everyone who benefits from the education to help chip in for materials or whatever). So it might be something to ask some more questions about.

 

I do remember going to a VBS a few times as a child. It was held in our neighbor's back yard, and I think it was funded through some kind of mission program. I don't remember there being a fee, but I don't recall there being any kind of collection either. As a child I didn't pay much attention to that sort of thing, I just wanted to hang with my friends. What I remember about it was feeling awkward because I didn't know the songs and memorized poem-type prayers they said, and I felt I stood out as a foreigner there, which was uncomfortable. The only other things I really remember about it were that the classes seemed very shallow and didn't arrive at a "point", like I was used to. For example, if I was taught the story of Noah at church, it usually ended with some kind of statement about the importance of obeying God or whatever, but when they very enthusiastically went through the same story at VBS the story just kind of...ended...and then we went off to string macaroni into necklaces, and it left me feeling like the job was unfinished...lol. Also I remember that we learned the song "Jesus Loves Me" and it made me very sad to think that the only way that these kids knew Jesus loved them was because the Bible said so, and not from the personal experience of that love. I'm sure that's not how that song is intended to be understood, but that's how it struck me back then. It's funny how you see things as a child, and the random odd things that stick in memory into adulthood...lol. It was definitely an interesting cultural experience.

 

Also, FWIW, I can understand and relate to your feelings of ambivalence about monetary donations. I know that the LDS church, as well as individual members, do certainly contribute money (and time and labor) to projects and organizations that are operated by other churches and religious organizations, such as the Salvation Army and Catholic Charities. In Utah, near where we live now, there is a Krishna temple, and I have been given to understand that when they had difficulty during construction the LDS church helped out, and it has made for very good community relations. They have a "Llama Fest" there every summer that is really kind of fun. (Actually, just telling your friends you've been to "Llama Fest" is fun...lol.. :) )And I recently read an article that described how an LDS meetinghouse was being utilized as a place for Friday prayer services by a Muslim group...somewhere...I forget...that didn't have a community center of their own for the purpose. Another article I read a while ago told of a soup kitchen that served the homeless, which was owned and operated by an Evangelical group but most of the food was donated by the LDS welfare program. And I think it's great when we can find at least some common ground with other faiths, and can pool our resources to work toward shared goals like feeding the hungry and helping with disaster relief and so forth, and I am more than happy to contribute to that kind of effort.

 

That said, though, there are some other activities and programs administered by other churches to which I would not feel at all comfortable contributing to, so when asked for just a general donation, I too would feel a little awkward. If I knew the money was intended to fund the general budget for facilities maintenance, electricity, etc. at a Baptist church where my kids were attending a VBS just for fun and to get to know the neighbor kids, I would be fine with chipping in for that. I would also be fine with it going toward paying the pastor, as I know that in their church that's how he earns his living, and if I'm using his services I should help pay his salary. I would be fine with it funding a local charitable effort, like a soup kitchen or women's shelter, or whatever. But, I know from experience that some Baptist missions programs tend to target "Mormons" in some ways that I find offensive, and some Baptist-affiliated organizations publish and distribute materials that badly misrepresent the teachings of the LDS church, and I would not want to feel that I was contributing toward that sort of thing.

 

I think if it were me, I would want some clarification on some of those kinds of things before sending my kids to their VBS. Is it for fun and fellowship, or for serious religious education? If I send my kids just to VBS for fun and fellowship, with no intention of their ever becoming part of that particular church otherwise, will that be offensive to anyone or distract from the educational purpose of the activities? What is the purpose of the donation at the beginning of each sesson? If it is for a missions fund that I can't in good conscience support, could I instead make a contribution in another way to a different fund so that I am not just freeloading? About what would the expected amount of such a donation be? Would it be alright if instead of making a donation of cash, I committed to bringing cookies every week for the kids? That sort of thing.

 

HTH

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:iagree:

Most churches offer VBS as an outreach/ministry to the community and don't expect any money for attending. Often, they do take up an offering, but it's not usually for the church/VBS costs--it's usually for a missions project or to donate to a local charity (in my experience). So I wouldn't feel bad at all about it if I were you.
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