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Do you do "literature analysis" with your 3rd grader?


Halcyon
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I am wondering if I should be doing more formal lit study with my 3rd grader. I found a literature guide for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory on currclick and it looks quite nice. My concern is that...welll...it might be sort of...annoying for my son to fill out. I mean, one of the things I love about my kids' reading these days is that they'll just grab their book, snuggle into the bed and read for a while. I can't imagine stopping them to fill out a lit guide or answer questions about what they've read. Maybe when they're older, but now? I don't know. But the guide I saw at currclick made me think "hmm, he's never really had to answer questions like that about his reading..." I just let him....read.

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I know in SWB lit analysis download she advises against lit analysis before the logic stage. In the early years, your main objective is to teach how to read and foster a love of reading. The most you should ever ask about a book they are reading is, "Tell me what happened." She does mention a few terms they should be familiar with such as fiction, nonfiction, fable, etc., but really, she advises hsers to toss any lit "programs" in the early years.

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Before the logic stage, stick with general comprehension questions - things that might make them dig a bit, but still pretty surface. Before that stage, kids don't generally have the abstract thinking skills to analyze - hence, "lit analysis" would be useless and would pretty much backfire.

 

Did I? Yes...but I have a son who's off-the-charts gifted and pretty much walked out of the womb with abstract thinking skills lol. I've been racing since he learned how to walk and talk just to keep up with him and keep him challenged. For gifted kids, the rules kinda change...like daily ;) In general, though, nope - wouldn't touch it till at least 5th grade, probably closer to 6th.

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Nope. Never have, never will. I taught third and fourth grade in a public school. Literature guides were all the rage. My students hated them for the most part, and I always felt like they were senseless. Then, I listen to SWB's audios, and she says very plainly---don't do it! Don't kill their love for reading by spending weeks on a book until it's dead! I can't tell you how good it was to hear someone I respect say that. It's what I always knew to be true. Just let them read. It's very freeing.

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Everytime I sign on to WTWforum, Floridamama keeps asking just the question I've wondered. In this, I seem to hit a wall b/c I've wanted to read and explore the Narnia series with a Veritas Press study guide I bought maybe 2 years ago. It was premature of me to assume my kids could try it. So, I'd go with the others and just read and narrate and have fun with the story. Some day the kids will read the story and ask what the meanings behind the characters etc are and you both can discuss it together.

 

BTW, thanks for the input on outlining with the logic stage. I'm freakin out about that issue for next year. More later...

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It depends on what you mean by lit analysis. I see some say I'd never do lit analysis in grammar or logic stage and then say, "we discuss setting and plot." For some I think lit analysis equates to boring lit guides that kill the joy. So sometimes I think we are all not discussing the same animal. I do lit analysis with my advanced 2nd grader. He tags along w/ his brother, a 5th grader. We do lit analysis ala Teaching the Classics. We use picture books. We are in and out in 15-20min, including reading the story. Setting, main character, what's the problem, whose standing in the way, resolution. With good picture books, you can cover all that in a matter of minutes. My 2nd grader LOVES it. We analyzed "Two Eggs, Please" and we had the BEST discussion about people's pre-conceptions and bias about others. A picture book! With about 20 words! Most of the story was told in the pictures. I asked my 2nd grader who the main character was and he accurately stated, "They all are. And they all are the antagonists as well. THey are all equal in this story." We do about 3 picture books a year, that's it.

 

My boys have LA as a strength. They love pointing out similes, metaphors, onomatopoeia, alliteration, rhymes ... do folks consider that lit analysis?

 

So, I would say, it depends on what you mean by "lit analysis" and it depends on your child. I think SWB's suggestions are great. I think in grammar stage it was just 1-2 questions - who is it about. then in logic stage add "what does she want? Who is in the way? Does she get what she wants?" I'd listen to her Literary Analysis MP3 for more info or read WTM 2009 edition.

 

Capt_Uhura

Edited by Capt_Uhura
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Setting, main character, what's the problem, whose standing in the way, resolution

 

I do this. Basic terms. Things that would be covered in a pretty basic narration, anyway.

 

Nothing more than that, though. They can go back and analyze the children's books when they are older, if desired. For now, just enjoy reading.

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Nope. Never have, never will. I taught third and fourth grade in a public school. Literature guides were all the rage. My students hated them for the most part, and I always felt like they were senseless. Then, I listen to SWB's audios, and she says very plainly---don't do it! Don't kill their love for reading by spending weeks on a book until it's dead! I can't tell you how good it was to hear someone I respect say that. It's what I always knew to be true. Just let them read. It's very freeing.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Hooray! Just let them read.

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It depends on what you mean by lit analysis. I see some say I'd never do lit analysis in grammar or logic stage and then say, "we discuss setting and plot." For some I think lit analysis equates to boring lit guides that kill the joy. So sometimes I think we are all not discussing the same animal. I do lit analysis with my advanced 2nd grader. He tags along w/ his brother, a 5th grader. We do lit analysis ala Teaching the Classics. We use picture books. We are in and out in 15-20min, including reading the story. Setting, main character, what's the problem, whose standing in the way, resolution. With good picture books, you can cover all that in a matter of minutes. My 2nd grader LOVES it. We analyzed "Two Eggs, Please" and we had the BEST discussion about people's pre-conceptions and bias about others. A picture book! With about 20 words! Most of the story was told in the pictures. I asked my 2nd grader who the main character was and he accurately stated, "They all are. And they all are the antagonists as well. THey are all equal in this story." We do about 3 picture books a year, that's it.

 

My boys have LA as a strength. They love pointing out similes, metaphors, onomatopoeia, alliteration, rhymes ... do folks consider that lit analysis?

 

So, I would say, it depends on what you mean by "lit analysis" and it depends on your child. I think SWB's suggestions are great. I think in grammar stage it was just 1-2 questions - who is it about. then in logic stage add "what does she want? Who is in the way? Does she get what she wants?" I'd listen to her Literary Analysis MP3 for more info or read WTM 2009 edition.

 

Capt_Uhura

 

Thank you! this is a nice middle ground.

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I do this. Basic terms. Things that would be covered in a pretty basic narration, anyway.

Nothing more than that, though. They can go back and analyze the children's books when they are older, if desired. For now, just enjoy reading.

 

I was just thinking that, that those questions would belong in a good narration about a story! :001_smile:

 

When we do read alouds, I might point things out such as, "WOW, I think that paragraph just foreshadowed something is about to happen," and just keep on reading. That way, they are hearing terms but we're not beating it to death by any stretch of the imagination.

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Thanks for making me feel better. I don't really discuss our books, or the books they are reading. I want them to enjoy reading for the pure joy of it! I don't really remember doing too much analysis til later anyway, even book reports. Seems pointless. I'd like to do a little more narration, but not so much with our literature. I don't really assign stuff to read on their own, either...though I do provide things to give them a nudge, lol!

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I didn't. We just vaguely chatted about the books we read - which bits we liked, what we thought when such-and-such happened. There's plenty of time for more formal work later.

 

We did use a book with comprehension passages at that age, which encouraged close reading, but kept that separate from our reading of whole books.

 

Laura

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It depends on what you mean by lit analysis. I see some say I'd never do lit analysis in grammar or logic stage and then say, "we discuss setting and plot." For some I think lit analysis equates to boring lit guides that kill the joy. So sometimes I think we are all not discussing the same animal. I do lit analysis with my advanced 2nd grader. He tags along w/ his brother, a 5th grader. We do lit analysis ala Teaching the Classics. We use picture books. We are in and out in 15-20min, including reading the story. Setting, main character, what's the problem, whose standing in the way, resolution. With good picture books, you can cover all that in a matter of minutes. My 2nd grader LOVES it. We analyzed "Two Eggs, Please" and we had the BEST discussion about people's pre-conceptions and bias about others. A picture book! With about 20 words! Most of the story was told in the pictures. I asked my 2nd grader who the main character was and he accurately stated, "They all are. And they all are the antagonists as well. THey are all equal in this story." We do about 3 picture books a year, that's it.

 

My boys have LA as a strength. They love pointing out similes, metaphors, onomatopoeia, alliteration, rhymes ... do folks consider that lit analysis?

 

So, I would say, it depends on what you mean by "lit analysis" and it depends on your child. I think SWB's suggestions are great. I think in grammar stage it was just 1-2 questions - who is it about. then in logic stage add "what does she want? Who is in the way? Does she get what she wants?" I'd listen to her Literary Analysis MP3 for more info or read WTM 2009 edition.

 

Capt_Uhura

 

I was just thinking that, that those questions would belong in a good narration about a story! :001_smile:

 

When we do read alouds, I might point things out such as, "WOW, I think that paragraph just foreshadowed something is about to happen," and just keep on reading. That way, they are hearing terms but we're not beating it to death by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes! Yes! Yes! That's a nice explanation of our house :) Simple explanations for the outline of the story: character, setting, plot, problem, solution. Mine like the fun grammar stuff, too, so they tend to point them out.

 

PR starts this in level 2, so I just have to follow along and I generally apply our studies from PR across the board.

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No, we do not do formal studies, nor should we.

 

At this stage in their development, there are some areas that require development.

 

The most important goal to meet is comprehension. Ask questions about the book before, during, and after reading.

 

Expose and explain the genres. Read a book from a particular genre and discuss the characteristics of that story that classifies it within this particular genre.

 

Finally, basic literary terms should be introduced. (e.g., setting, point of view, simile, metaphor, rhythm) Use current book selections or passages to identify the terms within context.

 

These goals should be met in the 3-5 grade. All of the above are needed prior to a literary analysis.

 

HTH :D

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argh, i thought i replied to this post earlier...

 

we belong to a book club in which we have a discussion about a book once it is read and we base it on the book "deconstructing penguins" we just talk about the setting, characters, protagonist, antagonist. etc...might be a good read at this age to ask some thoughtful and simple enough to answer questions...

 

and we keep a reading journal in which my 7 year old draws and writes a little bit about the book underneath it for certain books.

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Nothing formal, but we do discuss books as they are being read. We had quite a long discussion last year on a Narnia book and the possible symbolism. I think it all depends on what you mean by literature analysis. I think little ones are capable of discussing books even before they can read like discussing what you think will happen next, talking about why someone is doing something, etc.

 

It will probably be awhile before we do anything formal and I don't know if we will ever do literature guides like that. They seem too much like busywork to me.

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