ps highschool, already flunking?

[simka2]

Updated to inform that the teacher entered the wrong grade for the second time, and the girl actually has a B in the class.

 

 

I have know idea what to title this, but I have a question...especially for any ps highschool teachers.

 

I have a riding student who is a sophmore. She's in a year 1 french class. It's October and she has 16% F in the class. She has attended every class, but has had 2 close relationships (one a relative, another a horse trainer) pass away this in the last 1.5 months. She has been a bit distracted. She's done her homework, but she is not getting it.

 

I'm not trying to make to many excuses for her, but I cannot fathom a teacher giving that sort of a grade 2 months into the semester. Right now my heart is heavy for her.

 

Is this normal? How do teachers think this helps?

 

PS, her parents have high expectations of her and have suspended all showing privledges until her grades are up.

Edited October 27, 2010 by simka2

[Chris in VA]

Well, it probably just means she has that grade so far on the assignments that she's been graded on--probably homework and a couple quizzes, and maybe a chapter test.

I don't see what would be so unusual?

[Caroline]

If a kid has a 16% in my class, then that is what she has. (I teach high school math. My students' grades are based on 15% homework, 30% quizzes, 40% tests, and 15% final.) Will I work with her to help her catch up? Sure. But what good would it do her for me to lie about her grade? That 16% is based on something. The teacher didn't just make it up.

 

I have know idea what to title this, but I have a question...especially for any ps highschool teachers.

 

I have a riding student who is a sophmore. She's in a year 1 french class. It's October and she has 16% F in the class. She has attended every class, but has had 2 close relationships (one a relative, another a horse trainer) pass away this in the last 1.5 months. She has been a bit distracted. She's done her homework, but she is not getting it.

 

I'm not trying to make to many excuses for her, but I cannot fathom a teacher giving that sort of a grade 2 months into the semester. Right now my heart is heavy for her.

 

Is this normal? How do teachers think this helps?

 

PS, her parents have high expectations of her and have suspended all showing privledges until her grades are up.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, I feel for the kid. I definitely think her parents need to make sure she is getting her needs met in regards to the grief. Maybe the school counselor could help?

 

However, I'm unsure why you think this is the teacher's fault. The child is either doing the work and getting the answers correct or she's not. It's not subjective, really. Of course, hopefully they are offering help, time, extra credit, etc; but seriously, it isn't their fault that something is up with the child. Would it be fair to give her Bs she isn't earning when the rest of the students have to actually do the work, study, make arrangements for tutoring, etc?

 

Anyway, just my two cents. If I were a teacher, I would be there for a kid the best I could and I would offer every opportunity to help with the work. But I most certainly would grade the work that is assigned and give the student a fair grade, even if that was failing. It would not be helping her academically or fair to her or the other students otherwise.

[Perry]

My dd is in 10th grade at ps. I can look at her grades whenever I want through Power School, a computerized student grade information system. For each class, there is a list of all homework, projects, tests, quizzes, etc. Everything that is graded is listed. I'm looking at her French grades right now, and so far since the beginning of the year she's had 23 homework assignments, 10 quizzes, 1 test, 5 participation grades, and 5 projects. There is no curve. It's all objective.

 

 

So the grades are visible from day one. Two months into the semester doesn't seem at all early to me. It isn't like college where you get a grade based on a midterm and final.

[simka2]

If a kid has a 16% in my class, then that is what she has. (I teach high school math. My students' grades are based on 15% homework, 30% quizzes, 40% tests, and 15% final.) Will I work with her to help her catch up? Sure. But what good would it do her for me to lie about her grade? That 16% is based on something. The teacher didn't just make it up.

 

 

I'm with you, I think I struggle with how early in the semester it is. I could see this for someone that has been missing a lot of school, but this girl has been going early and staying late for the last 3 weeks ( with other teachers). She was a straight A student last year, and it is the French teachers 1st year. She has tried to talk to the teacher, but is not getting help in this class.

 

Truthfully, I do have a bad taste in my mouth for this district, so I'm not unbiased. The whole reason I pulled my kids was over a "blame the kid" mentality (granted mine were 2 and 3rd graders)

 

In every class she has been able to get the extra help in, she has pulled her grades up from F and D to B and A's. Anyway, I'm probly just blowing off steam after seeing her work so hard and then end up with this grade. (Also, this teacher gave her a 0 on an assignment when she had a 65%, granted not great, but that grade went home and her parents freaked!!!!! Then, this girl called the teacher on the mistake and it was fixed, but her parents are already mad at her for her grades)

 

I see this girl in danger of dropping out, because she does have a lot of family issues as well.

 

PS...I really do like ps teachers...and am not anti-ps on the whole, I'm just frustrated with everyone involved (includeing the student) and I care about her a great deal!

[1bassoon]

I'm with you, I think I struggle with how early in the semester it is.

 

My dh taught public school - and they HAD to send out progress reports, even if there were not many grades on which to base it. Could be an administrative requirement, kwim?

[simka2]

My dd is in 10th grade at ps. I can look at her grades whenever I want through Power School, a computerized student grade information system. For each class, there is a list of all homework, projects, tests, quizzes, etc. Everything that is graded is listed. I'm looking at her French grades right now, and so far since the beginning of the year she's had 23 homework assignments, 10 quizzes, 1 test, 5 participation grades, and 5 projects. There is no curve. It's all objective.

 

 

So the grades are visible from day one. Two months into the semester doesn't seem at all early to me. It isn't like college where you get a grade based on a midterm and final.

 

I wish her parents would be this involved. Her mom told me this evening, that she will not force her dd to study...she will just take away her horses.

 

Hence, my concern for her just "giving up." Dh asked me how we would handle it if it was our dd, and I said...her social life would be non-existent, and her behind would be camped at the kitchen table...where I can see her working!

 

These parents have a different mentality, she has free rein to make her own choices, go out when she wants, but when the grades roll in she loses the one thing she loves.

 

I'm torn on this.

[fhjmom]

Former high school teacher here. There used to be a policy here that many schools used that no student could be given a grade lower than 50% for the first two grading periods of the semester, no matter what grade the student earned. The thinking was that if a student was so far in the hole at the beginning of the semseter that they could not passed, they would just give up and not try or become a behavior problem.

 

Recently the state passed a law that this was not allowed and a student had to be given the grade actually earned. I doubt the teacher "gave" her that grade, I would say that she earned that grade by the quality of work turned in or not turning it in at all (for a grade that low, I am willing to bet that there is a lot of missing assignments; it's very hard to give grades for work that doesn't exist).

 

If she was having a hard time with the losses, I would hope that her parents would notify the school and help her with counseling or what she needs to get things pulled together. If a teacher knows there are extenuating circumstances and those circumstances allow, a student might be able to receive an incomplete for missing assignments but the teacher can't seek that alternative if they don't know what is going on.

[simka2]

My dh taught public school - and they HAD to send out progress reports, even if there were not many grades on which to base it. Could be an administrative requirement, kwim?

 

 

I know, and I realize that...part of me wishes there was a way of protecting students in difficult family situations. Her parents won't factor this in. :glare:

[msjones]

I haven't read all the replies, but it sounds like she's simply failing the class.

 

I'm sorry for her personal issues, but the teacher can't lie and give her credit if she's not doing the work or passing the quizzes and tests.

 

She should approach the teacher and ask what will be required for her to get her grade up to passing. A reasonable teacher will probably work with her to develop a plan.

 

Hopefully, this is just a bump in the road for her.

[simka2]

Former high school teacher here. There used to be a policy here that many schools used that no student could be given a grade lower than 50% for the first two grading periods of the semester, no matter what grade the student earned. The thinking was that if a student was so far in the hole at the beginning of the semseter that they could not passed, they would just give up and not try or become a behavior problem.

 

Recently the state passed a law that this was not allowed and a student had to be given the grade actually earned. I doubt the teacher "gave" her that grade, I would say that she earned that grade by the quality of work turned in or not turning it in at all (for a grade that low, I am willing to bet that there is a lot of missing assignments; it's very hard to give grades for work that doesn't exist).

 

If she was having a hard time with the losses, I would hope that her parents would notify the school and help her with counseling or what she needs to get things pulled together. If a teacher knows there are extenuating circumstances and those circumstances allow, a student might be able to receive an incomplete for missing assignments but the teacher can't seek that alternative if they don't know what is going on.

I wish that were the case. She kinda falls into the caterory of having all her physical needs met, but no other support. Sometimes she reminds me of a princess who has access to a bunch of "stuff" but no practical training, support, or investment. Then when she fails...the are severe with the punishment.

 

It's been a good lesson for me. Realizeing that a social station doesn't insulate a child from needing guidance, emotional investment, and structure.

[myfunnybunch]

At my daughter's school, they send out progress reports in October so that parents know if the child is doing poorly. It may seem early, and it may be discouraging, but it gives parents an opportunity to figure out how to help the student get caught up. Like you said, if it was your child, her behind would be camped at the table catching up.

 

Better that than find out when the grading period is over and the student is so far behind that there is no chance in h-e-double hockey sticks for him or her to fix it.

 

Cat

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Our school year began in mid August. They had mid-terms two weeks ago. There are only 7 weeks left in the current semester. This is not early to be failing a class. I would actually consider it late notice of a student's lack of progress. With a 16% there isn't a lot of time left to raise that grade to more than a C - unless the teacher allows makeup and/or late assignments to de turned in.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Do y'all's schools only have term periods rather than grades every 6 or 9 weeks? I've never heard of that in a high school. Wouldn't high schoolers get report cards? not just a progress report in Oct? And even still, the end of Oct is about 1/4 of the school year, isn't it?

 

Anyway, I feel for the kid. She's had a tough situation, unsupportive parents, etc. It sounds like the teacher may not be effective. If she's getting help in other classes, she may not have been able to focus on this class but now she probably should try.

[Caroline]

Do y'all's schools only have term periods rather than grades every 6 or 9 weeks? I've never heard of that in a high school. Wouldn't high schoolers get report cards? not just a progress report in Oct? And even still, the end of Oct is about 1/4 of the school year, isn't it?

 

Anyway, I feel for the kid. She's had a tough situation, unsupportive parents, etc. It sounds like the teacher may not be effective. If she's getting help in other classes, she may not have been able to focus on this class but now she probably should try.

 

In my school district, high school grades are by semester for block-scheduled classes. We do progress reports every six weeks. For schools on traditional schedules, they give a grade at the end of the semester and the end of the year that go into the GPA. However, they, too, give out progress reports every six weeks.

[myfunnybunch]

In my school district, high school grades are by semester for block-scheduled classes. We do progress reports every six weeks. For schools on traditional schedules, they give a grade at the end of the semester and the end of the year that go into the GPA. However, they, too, give out progress reports every six weeks.

 

Ditto for the high school my daughter attends.

 

Cat

[NCW]

We enrolled our dd in ps this year as a freshman. Feedback from her indicates to me that teachers at times modify their policies based on input from the principal (granted this is a new school, so the principal and teachers are still getting their systems in place).

 

An example is that her Latin instructor used to allow extra credit to bring a grade up, but no opportunities to retake exams. That has been reversed - no extra credit, but you are allowed to retake exams. All of the teachers are available for tutoring sessions either before or after school. If the other instructors are being flexible with providing extra tutoring, etc., perhaps going beyond the teacher to administrative staff would benefit. Wish her parents were more proactive.

 

While I like to believe teachers are sympathetic and objective, I observed one or two occasions where a bad personality match between teacher and student really got in the way of that child's education.

 

I also wish her parents could understand how horseback riding might be a big part of her healing and keeping her grades up. It's tough to keep grades in perspective.

[hoosiermom]

Another former high school teacher here--is the 16% the cumulative grade for the first semester thus far? If so, my guess is there are many, many assignments which have not been turned in. Otherwise, it's almost impossible to have a grade this low. The only other possibility I can come up with is that there have been 0's given on major tests--the only reason this would have happened in my class, other than cheating, would be an unexcused absence on test day (and that would be an administrative decision, not mine). Missing a test for a funeral or other serious family emergency would be considered excused.

 

Our local school has the semester divided into 3 six-week grading periods. Currently, they are finishing the 2nd grading period. Each grading period is a fresh start, and then the 3 six-week grades, plus semester exam, are averaged to get the semester grade. I can easily understand how a student could have a 16% in the first week or so of a grading period if there had been a low quiz grade or a couple of poorly done assignments.

 

Teachers don't "give" this kind of grade to crush a student's spirit. In my classes, you got the grade you earned. I was willing to come in early or stay late to give extra help, although I know some teachers that did not do this.

 

Perhaps if this particular teacher is not willing to provide extra help, a tutor could be found??

 

Cathy

[DawnM]

Oh, that makes me sad. When I was a high school counselor I often had parents who were very "all or nothing" when it came to punishments and there was no real incentive for the child to do better when it would be all the way to the next grading period before he/she could "prove" him/herself. I always encouraged parents to have smaller consequences first and build up to the "take it all away" thing AND have a very set redemption "scale" so that the child could start earning back privileges. Otherwise it sets up a very angry child who feels he/she can't do "anything right" (even if it isn't true that tends to be a teen's response) and won't ever get his/her privilege back. They need to know EXACTLY what to do to get it back and not just a "get the grade up." Something like, "do all of your homework in the class with a C or better for two weeks and we will give you limited privileges back" or some such.

 

Dawn

 

I wish her parents would be this involved. Her mom told me this evening, that she will not force her dd to study...she will just take away her horses.

 

Hence, my concern for her just "giving up." Dh asked me how we would handle it if it was our dd, and I said...her social life would be non-existent, and her behind would be camped at the kitchen table...where I can see her working!

 

These parents have a different mentality, she has free rein to make her own choices, go out when she wants, but when the grades roll in she loses the one thing she loves.

 

I'm torn on this.

[hsbeth]

My dh is a public high school teacher. I'm not sure what your local calendar is like, and I haven't read through all of the responses, but we are 10 weeks into a 36 week school year. Most teachers are required to document students in danger of failing by the half way point of a given marking period. For most this means by the 4 1/2 week mark of school.

 

While I'm sympathetic to your student's situation, she is most likely getting the grade that she earned. I would guess that there is are many missing assignments involved here. My husband will often work with a student who is behind, but he ultimately cannot force them to complete their at home work. I would think it near impossible to have an average of 16% unless there were many, many uncompleted assignments.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that many public school teachers are held closely accountable for their failures. In my husband's district. failure rate is tabulated for each instructor. My husband is required to document extensively in cases of low student achievement and even then it is still somewhat derogatory to his record. My husband does everything short of manipulating grades to ensure that his students succeed. Not only is that the right thing to do, it is also frankly in his own self interest.

 

Many high school teachers have a student load of 130+ students. If a student is not doing their work and is not showing up before or after school for help she may go unnoticed. If she is asking for help and not receiving it she should let her parents know as well as the guidance department. She should talk with the guidance counselor at school and have her parents contact the school's administration.

 

Often times mid quarter failures serve as a warning to a student and their family that missing work must be made up. In this case teachers are doing the students a service by letting them know in time to make a correction.

[kiana]

Just one quick question -- you're sure that this isn't a clerical error, and she hasn't earned 16% of the possible points for the entire semester, out of a possible 40% available so far, or something like that? That would be bad, but not quite as disastrous. Sometimes the automated grade display comes out funny like that -- especially if it's her first year, she may be unfamiliar with the software and have simply either hit 'print' or 'send' and sent the wrong column.

 

Otherwise, I agree with everyone else -- there's no way a score of 16% should be a surprise. Either there are many very, very low scores on assignments or many skipped assignments and a few decent ones.

 

Really, what she needs to be doing is talking directly to the teacher, getting advice on if she has any chance of passing and what she has to do, and getting a tutor.

[simka2]

Just one quick question -- you're sure that this isn't a clerical error, and she hasn't earned 16% of the possible points for the entire semester, out of a possible 40% available so far, or something like that? That would be bad, but not quite as disastrous. Sometimes the automated grade display comes out funny like that -- especially if it's her first year, she may be unfamiliar with the software and have simply either hit 'print' or 'send' and sent the wrong column.

 

Otherwise, I agree with everyone else -- there's no way a score of 16% should be a surprise. Either there are many very, very low scores on assignments or many skipped assignments and a few decent ones.

 

Really, what she needs to be doing is talking directly to the teacher, getting advice on if she has any chance of passing and what she has to do, and getting a tutor.

 

 

Actually, I do think this is what's going on....but it won't matter to her parents. It's very frustrating to watch.

[In The Great White North]

If she is asking for help and not receiving it she should let her parents know as well as the guidance department. She should talk with the guidance counselor at school and have her parents contact the school's administration.

 

:iagree: Are there any other French I teachers?

 

Ds only took one course in the ps, but managed to be sick the week before the marking period ended, so the major project due that week didn't get turned in. Instead of averaging in a zero, they gave him an incomplete on his mid-term report card.

[CAMom]

It's sounds like your frustration should be directed towards her parents rather than the teacher.

 

How do you know she's doing her work? Because it would seem impossible to only be getting a 16% if she really is turning in her assignments.

 

Poor girl...what a tough road she's walking. Are her parents always like this or is this a new thing in their own grief as well? Maybe they would all benefit from grief counseling.:grouphug:

[simka2]

It's sounds like your frustration should be directed towards her parents rather than the teacher.

 

How do you know she's doing her work? Because it would seem impossible to only be getting a 16% if she really is turning in her assignments.

 

Poor girl...what a tough road she's walking. Are her parents always like this or is this a new thing in their own grief as well? Maybe they would all benefit from grief counseling.:grouphug:

 

No..they are like this regularly. There is a lot of pain and pride in this family. The girl is already in couseling for a variety of other things (family related.) I walk a fine line with this family, so there is only so much I can do :confused:

 

Anyway, my only frustration with the teacher had to do with the % at how early in the year. I know she's in school every day, because I am the one who picks her up from school. But, I do not know if she has been turning in assignments.

 

This young lady and I will be sitting down and having a bit of a heart to heart this afternoon.

[simka2]

Oh, that makes me sad. When I was a high school counselor I often had parents who were very "all or nothing" when it came to punishments and there was no real incentive for the child to do better when it would be all the way to the next grading period before he/she could "prove" him/herself. I always encouraged parents to have smaller consequences first and build up to the "take it all away" thing AND have a very set redemption "scale" so that the child could start earning back privileges. Otherwise it sets up a very angry child who feels he/she can't do "anything right" (even if it isn't true that tends to be a teen's response) and won't ever get his/her privilege back. They need to know EXACTLY what to do to get it back and not just a "get the grade up." Something like, "do all of your homework in the class with a C or better for two weeks and we will give you limited privileges back" or some such.

 

Dawn

 

 

Exactly!!! This is my concern. She's becoming very beat down and angry. My concern is for when she say's..."Fine just get rid of the horses!!!" So, they can't be used as a weapon. Then what will she turn to? She's already got a lot to be angry about :glare: Sometimes I can see her mind working..."Why am saying "no" to these's parties?" "Why do I work so hard at keeping a horse fit, when I have a rough time it all gets yanked away?"

 

Further more, she works a partime job to pay for her horse shows and equipment.

 

I'm not denying that she has probly let some things slide here at the beginning of the year, but I'm not sure how much she will be able to take.

 

Oh well, we will see what this afternoon brings :)

[simka2]

Update: The teacher entered the wrong grade for a 2nd time. She really has a B in the class. How frustrating!!! :glare:

[kiana]

Update: The teacher entered the wrong grade for a 2nd time. She really has a B in the class. How frustrating!!! :glare:

 

Okay, it's frustrating, but it's also a great relief -- better than any of the other options that were being floated. :)