I feel bad for my 12yo dd

[AngieW in Texas]

I knew this was going to be a hard year for her as soon as I found out that one of her best friends would be going to ps this year. Then I found out that her other best friend was almost never going to be at parkday either because of a conflicting activity.

 

There used to be a pretty decent-sized group of 11-13yo girls at parkdays. Now there are frequently parkdays where my 12yo is the only girl over the age of 10yo. While one of her best friends is 10yo, most of her other friends are 13yo. Only one of the girls she used to do things with ever comes to parkdays anymore and even she doesn't come all that often.

 

On top of that, she's been having a breathing problem and pain and sleeping issues. At first we thought the chest pain and breathing problem was precordial catch syndrome, but then it morphed into just breathing issues and became very frequent. From everything that I have read, precordial catch syndrome always has the chest pain. She almost never has the chest pain now, but has the breathing issue several times a day, nearly every day.

 

She's also having a lot of problems sleeping. She wakes up during the night and can't go back to sleep or she actually does sleep, but feels like she just dozed all night long. She has tried taking benadryl and melatonin, but they haven't helped much.

 

She has seen our regular family doctor, a cardiologist, an E.N.T., and an allergy/asthma/immunologist. Everything has come back normal from all tests (bloodwork, EKG, pulmnology function, chest xray, physical exam). The E.N.T checked her out for vocal chord dysfunction, but said he saw no signs of it. He thought that her tonsils were pretty huge, but said they wouldn't cause the breathing problem she's having.

 

She is sick and tired of going to different doctors, but she really wants to know what is wrong and wants to stop feeling sick. The breathing problem scares her. She suddenly starts panting and can't stop. I can't correlate the panting episodes to anything. It has happened at home, at the pool, at a birthday party, in the car, on a walk, while sitting in a chair watching a movie, while laying down reading a book, ... There is absolutely no way to predict when it's going to occur. During the really scary ones, she feels like she can't get any air.

 

She had one episode that lasted a full hour (they usually last 30seconds-2minutes). I got her to doctor's office during that one. The doctor had no idea what it was. Her oxygen sat was good even though the episode had already been going on for 30 minutes and kept going on for another 30.

 

I just don't know what to do at this point.

[SonshineLearner]

So sorry... sorry for the sickness and loss of friend time. Perhaps they could schedule a different activity? Maybe like... craft oriented or something (knitting etc...??)

 

Sorry :(

[Hannah]

:grouphug:

[AngieW in Texas]

We can usually get together with her younger friend 2-3x/month. She lives just 20 minutes away and has a fairly flexible schedule, more flexible than ours.

 

The older friend is harder because of the ps schedule and her activity schedule. The friend just doesn't have much downtime now. It doesn't help that she's about 30 minutes away either.

[Alyce]

she might just be having brief panic attacks or periods of anxiety. These would be normal symptoms for someone under a lot of stress. I also might ask for a sleep test. It may show that she has some sleep apnea.

 

I'd try to get her interested in some other outside activity at this point. One where she can meet new friends. Like Dance, Martial Arts, Church Group, mine even did rock climbing for a while. It's not uncommon for kids at this age to get busier and get interested in other things and play dates just don't mean as much to them as they used to. Could you do sleepovers or girls night out. Something like that.

[Rosie_0801]

Take the xrays to a chiropractor and see what s/he has to say about them.

 

As for the friend thing, well, :grouphug:

 

Rosie

[Pippen]

she might just be having brief panic attacks or periods of anxiety. These would be normal symptoms for someone under a lot of stress. I also might ask for a sleep test. It may show that she has some sleep apnea.

.

 

My friend's daughter was having similar sounding attacks and thought they were asthma or some other breathing problem. It didn't respond to asthma treatment (she did have asthma so that was the first assumption). They went through a mess of medical tests and finally it happened while she was being tested by the cardiologist and he recognized it as a panic attack. Knowing that, they were able to help her get over it and get her back up to her normal activities.

 

If she's having that many sleep issues, I'm surprised they haven't set her up with a sleep study.

[Parrothead]

Panic attack was my first thought when I read what you described.

 

As for the friends, I know the feeling. We lived 2.5 years with little to no friends. It was heart breaking. Try different activities.

[Journey]

I don't want to minimize her episodes but I am thinking panic attacks too. Why? Because my 16 year old daughter used to have them. She still says that she didn't sleep on a particular night, even though I KNOW she did. She went through a very hard time when she was 12 too. We had been going to a particular church since the day she was born and had made friends....one of whom was her very, very best friend. Well, I took my two girls and left that church...when she was 12 and EVERYONE that we had come to know and love dumped us. My girls had NO friends left because we had made that church and the people our lives. They (we) were devastated. This is when she started having the panic attacks. Visits to the ER were becoming more and more, doctors couldn't find anything wrong but she would have some of the same symptoms that your daughter is having. It is SO scary and I know that many many people think panic attacks are for the weak but that's not true. I'm not saying that your daughter's symptoms are definately panic attacks but I think they might be. If so, that's a good thing because most likely when her life gets more "normal" again, they will go away.

[Mandamom]

Panic attack was my first thought when I read what you described.

 

As for the friends, I know the feeling. We lived 2.5 years with little to no friends. It was heart breaking. Try different activities.

 

I've been dealing with similar attacks for the past month and I'm pretty sure it is panic attacks. They are scary, with a feeling of not being able to breath and the chest pain feels like a heart attack. Sleeping is really hard many nights.

 

My stress level is out the roof so it is not unexpected and even when I know what it is it is hard to control.

 

The best relief I had was the day 2 days I got a really good massage (my dh is able to do it)-- stretching and loosening the muscles in the chest area and front and back shoulders shoulders along with a good stretching. I was amazed at what a difference that made in the ability to breathe. I am trying to get a 2 or 3 mile walk in everyday and I notice improvement on those days but it is hard with my work schedule and it getting dark early (I work 2 jobs in order to support my family).

 

I hope you figure out what is wrong with your daughter. I just thought I'd throw out my experience with panic attacks to see if it might help you. If it isn't your daughter's problem maybe it will help others.

[DianeW88]

Panic attacks. Have her checked out for an anxiety disorder. There are meds to control it.

[sheryl]

I knew this was going to be a hard year for her as soon as I found out that one of her best friends would be going to ps this year. Then I found out that her other best friend was almost never going to be at parkday either because of a conflicting activity.

 

There used to be a pretty decent-sized group of 11-13yo girls at parkdays. Now there are frequently parkdays where my 12yo is the only girl over the age of 10yo. While one of her best friends is 10yo, most of her other friends are 13yo. Only one of the girls she used to do things with ever comes to parkdays anymore and even she doesn't come all that often.

 

On top of that, she's been having a breathing problem and pain and sleeping issues. At first we thought the chest pain and breathing problem was precordial catch syndrome, but then it morphed into just breathing issues and became very frequent. From everything that I have read, precordial catch syndrome always has the chest pain. She almost never has the chest pain now, but has the breathing issue several times a day, nearly every day.

 

She's also having a lot of problems sleeping. She wakes up during the night and can't go back to sleep or she actually does sleep, but feels like she just dozed all night long. She has tried taking benadryl and melatonin, but they haven't helped much.

 

She has seen our regular family doctor, a cardiologist, an E.N.T., and an allergy/asthma/immunologist. Everything has come back normal from all tests (bloodwork, EKG, pulmnology function, chest xray, physical exam). The E.N.T checked her out for vocal chord dysfunction, but said he saw no signs of it. He thought that her tonsils were pretty huge, but said they wouldn't cause the breathing problem she's having.

 

She is sick and tired of going to different doctors, but she really wants to know what is wrong and wants to stop feeling sick. The breathing problem scares her. She suddenly starts panting and can't stop. I can't correlate the panting episodes to anything. It has happened at home, at the pool, at a birthday party, in the car, on a walk, while sitting in a chair watching a movie, while laying down reading a book, ... There is absolutely no way to predict when it's going to occur. During the really scary ones, she feels like she can't get any air.

 

She had one episode that lasted a full hour (they usually last 30seconds-2minutes). I got her to doctor's office during that one. The doctor had no idea what it was. Her oxygen sat was good even though the episode had already been going on for 30 minutes and kept going on for another 30.

 

I just don't know what to do at this point.

 

Angie, Sorry for what you're going through. We're in a similar boat with our only child....11 1/2 yo dd. There just aren't many girls in her age range....the kids are boys. That's fine for now, but very soon, it will be better for those close friends to be girls in terms of play, etc.

 

Take her to a neurologist. They deal with sleep issues. My dd goes to one. Make sure it's a pediatric n. as opposed to adult n.

 

HTH. Sheryl <><

[kwickimom]

I've been dealing with similar attacks for the past month and I'm pretty sure it is panic attacks. They are scary, with a feeling of not being able to breath and the chest pain feels like a heart attack. Sleeping is really hard many nights.

 

My stress level is out the roof so it is not unexpected and even when I know what it is it is hard to control.

 

The best relief I had was the day 2 days I got a really good massage (my dh is able to do it)-- stretching and loosening the muscles in the chest area and front and back shoulders shoulders along with a good stretching. I was amazed at what a difference that made in the ability to breathe. I am trying to get a 2 or 3 mile walk in everyday and I notice improvement on those days but it is hard with my work schedule and it getting dark early (I work 2 jobs in order to support my family).

 

I hope you figure out what is wrong with your daughter. I just thought I'd throw out my experience with panic attacks to see if it might help you. If it isn't your daughter's problem maybe it will help others.

 

 

Same symptoms for me when I was back in college. I waas having panic attacks. Took the docs forever to diagnose me and i had to go through 3 meds until we found lovely Prozac. With some counseling and a lot of prayer I have been panic attack free for 10 years!

[AngieW in Texas]

What kind of doctor do you go to for panic attacks?

[bettyandbob]

Since your 12 yo is your youngest child, I'd suggest trying another social group for homeschoolers that are middle school age and up. If there is no one there or only one younger child there, does she really want to participate anymore? If there isn't a homeschool social group geared to older children, then I'd start looking for a more formal activity. What are her interests? You may find a homeschool activity for her age group that fits her interests or you may need to try activities that are community based. Art classes, 4H, church or community chorus groups. My dd has done a lot of different activities over the years that have fulfilled both social and interest needs at the same time.

 

I also agree with the pp that suggested looking into an anxiety disorder.

[Alyce]

A family Dr might recognize it once all the other tests are done. You might even mention it to them. Sometimes they get caught up with physical causes and forget to pay attention to the emotional issues. Also ae they aware of all the events you have told us about. If not it would also make them more likely to push for a physical diagnosis. A psychiatrist would be a better choice to treat them since they are more familiar with that kind of thing as well as more knowledgeable about the medicines to treat them.

[Harriet Vane]

We have had a similar process with friends. For many years dd had a great little group of girl friends. As they have grown through the middle years, though, a combination of two factors has broken down the group significantly. One is that several girls are no longer homeschooling--it's just so much harder to keep up with friends when your lives do not naturally intersect, and the public school schedule is so very different from our home school schedule. The other factor is that as they have grown older, their interests and passions have grown stronger and more pronounced, so there are not so many common activities. They still like each other, but have drifted in different ways.

[AngieW in Texas]

Neither of us ever thought to mention the sleep issues to the doctor because we didn't think of them as possibly related. The doctor did mention the possibility that the breathing episodes could be panic attacks when we went to the office during the really long one, but the referral she gave us was for the allergy/asthma/immunology specialist. I wouldn't have thought that would be the case because of how randomly it occurs. She's even had it occur during a birthday party while she was having a great time. I don't think panic attacks have to actually have a trigger though.

[Jean in Newcastle]

She could be low on magnesium. I was having panic attacks just like you describe when I was low on magnesium. You might look for a supplement called "Children's Calm" at a health food store. It is a powdered magnesium that you mix into water. It is citrus flavored (at least the adult version is) and doesn't taste bad. In fact, if you google 'Children's Calm' it should tell you a bit about it. Magnesium also helps you to sleep better.

 

In fact, google magnesium deficiency and you will see panic attacks, pain (esp. muscle) and insomnia all listed.

[AngieW in Texas]

I checked my dd's vitamin supplement and it doesn't contain magnesium. I checked the lists of foods that are rich in magnesium and she doesn't eat any of them.

 

I'm going to try People's Pharmacy to see if they have Children's Calm or some other magnesium supplement I can give her. I know that she would prefer a pill version.

[Sparkle]

I think panic attacks are a quite likely explanation. I started having them at a young age as well. Also, agreeing with above posters about having a sleep test done. It can be very informative for diagnosing and treating sleep disorders.

 

I'd look into another type of activity for your dd to get involved in. Church, volunteer work, 4-H, recreation league sport, dance, martial arts... I sympathize...my dd's closest friend went back to ps this year too.

[Alyce]

Panic attacks don't have to have a trigger as many people think although they usually do. When they do it can be very subtle. Sometimes they can be triggered by just a certain smell or sound. Just being at a birthday party can make a girl very anxious. She may be worried that the other girls won't like her or it may cause her to miss her friends even more. I can think of dozens of things that would go through a young girls head that she would never tell anyone about. It may even be something buried in her subconcious. Your Dr probably sent you to the other Drs to rule out those other issues. If the other Dr has found nothing wrong I think it's time you go back to original Dr and have a good talk about all the issues your Dd has been going through. Include even the things that you think are small and probably don't matter. The more the Dr knows is going on the better able he is to help. Unfortunately we as a society tend to have already made our minds up about what's going on or we're so focused in on one issue we don't realize that there may be other things going on and so we give the Dr only limited information. They start going in a different direction and you may go through all sorts of uncessary Dr visits and test. If you had just told them everything that going on instead of editing, they would might have an easier time figuring out what is going on and may save you valuable time and money. It's very important for your Dr to know everything. It will help him better figure out what's going on. Before you get and give her the magnesium supplements take time to learn everything you can about the bodie's need for it and how it helps the body. There is blood work that can be done to determine if you have a low magnesium level and if it is then you can treat it aproprietly and that might be all that you need but you need to discuss this issue with your Dr as well. The important thing now is that the solution is found soon. Panic attacks if not treated properly can get worse over time and are then even harder to treat and take more of a tole on the child's life and health. I will keep you all in prayer and that hope these issues are resolved soon.

[plansrme]

I checked my dd's vitamin supplement and it doesn't contain magnesium. I checked the lists of foods that are rich in magnesium and she doesn't eat any of them.

 

I'm going to try People's Pharmacy to see if they have Children's Calm or some other magnesium supplement I can give her. I know that she would prefer a pill version.

 

Do you have some Epsom salts lying around? Magnesium is the active ingredient in Epsom salts (until recently, I had no idea there actually was an active ingredient in Epsom salts--thought it was an old wives' tale) and is easily absorbed through the skin.

 

Terri

[unsinkable]

I knew this was going to be a hard year for her as soon as I found out that one of her best friends would be going to ps this year. Then I found out that her other best friend was almost never going to be at parkday either because of a conflicting activity.

 

There used to be a pretty decent-sized group of 11-13yo girls at parkdays. Now there are frequently parkdays where my 12yo is the only girl over the age of 10yo. While one of her best friends is 10yo, most of her other friends are 13yo. Only one of the girls she used to do things with ever comes to parkdays anymore and even she doesn't come all that often.

 

On top of that, she's been having a breathing problem and pain and sleeping issues. At first we thought the chest pain and breathing problem was precordial catch syndrome, but then it morphed into just breathing issues and became very frequent. From everything that I have read, precordial catch syndrome always has the chest pain. She almost never has the chest pain now, but has the breathing issue several times a day, nearly every day.

 

She's also having a lot of problems sleeping. She wakes up during the night and can't go back to sleep or she actually does sleep, but feels like she just dozed all night long. She has tried taking benadryl and melatonin, but they haven't helped much.

 

She has seen our regular family doctor, a cardiologist, an E.N.T., and an allergy/asthma/immunologist. Everything has come back normal from all tests (bloodwork, EKG, pulmnology function, chest xray, physical exam). The E.N.T checked her out for vocal chord dysfunction, but said he saw no signs of it. He thought that her tonsils were pretty huge, but said they wouldn't cause the breathing problem she's having.

 

She is sick and tired of going to different doctors, but she really wants to know what is wrong and wants to stop feeling sick. The breathing problem scares her. She suddenly starts panting and can't stop. I can't correlate the panting episodes to anything. It has happened at home, at the pool, at a birthday party, in the car, on a walk, while sitting in a chair watching a movie, while laying down reading a book, ... There is absolutely no way to predict when it's going to occur. During the really scary ones, she feels like she can't get any air.

 

She had one episode that lasted a full hour (they usually last 30seconds-2minutes). I got her to doctor's office during that one. The doctor had no idea what it was. Her oxygen sat was good even though the episode had already been going on for 30 minutes and kept going on for another 30.

 

I just don't know what to do at this point.

 

I am so sorry your dd is going thru this!

 

I hope you get some answers!

 

:grouphug:

[TXMomof4]

she might just be having brief panic attacks or periods of anxiety. These would be normal symptoms for someone under a lot of stress. I also might ask for a sleep test. It may show that she has some sleep apnea.

 

 

 

That was my very first thought as well. Insomnia can be a symptom of stress issues, which makes the panics worse, which makes the insomnia worse - it's a vicious cycle.

 

:grouphug: to you and your girlie.

 

ETA: My panic attacks are almost entirely related to hormones. I'm prone to it, but don't actually have many panic attacks except the week and 1/2 before my period. Recognizing what they are is a powerful tool in stopping them for me. Medication is a necessity sometimes though. Tension tamer tea really does help me.

Edited October 25, 2010 by TXMomof4

[higginszoo]

I'm so sorry that she's having problems being a medical mystery.

 

I have an 11 year old who would LOVE a new friend. We moved here 18 mo ago, and it seems that all of our social circles mostly (or only) have boys in the 10-14 age group. We tried the LWL park day a couple of times, but we all felt conspicuously ignored, so we just stopped going to avoid the awkwardness. It's a shame because I know they often meet at Milburn which is literally our back yard.

I don't know how you feel about Girl Scouts, but Nichelle N. has a group with about half homeschoolers. They're mostly a bit younger (10-younger 11), but we're trying to get some older girls in (my daughter is one as an older 11). Both leaders tend to be more on the conservative side and steer clear of some of the more controversial options in the GS programming. There are also weekly programs down at council for the older girls that I've been driving to every week and sometimes bringing a group down to. As we get more older girls (and some of the others age up) there's a lot for them to do.

I also have a friend with a 14 year old dd who is looking for social outlets. We're doing a bio lab co-op right now, just us and her, but I know her mom is open to other things as well, they live down off of Spicewood.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Do you have some Epsom salts lying around? Magnesium is the active ingredient in Epsom salts (until recently, I had no idea there actually was an active ingredient in Epsom salts--thought it was an old wives' tale) and is easily absorbed through the skin.

 

Terri

 

:iagree: I don't know why I forgot to mention that. You can actually get more magnesium through the skin through an epsom salt bath than you can orally. That's because too much magnesium orally will make you have diarrhea. So yes, if you have epsom salts, draw her a bath!

[AngieW in Texas]

I started my dd on a magnesium supplement on Monday last week. Since then she has had only one breathing problem and that was the day after she started.

 

She's taking 240 mg of magnesium glycinate (two 120 mg capsules) about one hour before she goes to bed.

http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Encapsulations-Magnesium-glycinate-vcaps/dp/B001T8IPLS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1288582036&sr=8-2

 

So far this appears to be working, but her breathing problem did stop for a week once before. After she had her horribly bad one-hour long panting episode, she went 6 full days without another breathing problem. Then it came back just as bad as before.

 

Historically, Mondays are her worst days for the breathing problem, so we'll see how tomorrow goes.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Praying that tomorrow is a uneventful day for her.