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Is bullying ever OK?-spin off


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The thread about parents teaching kids how to handle bullies got me thinking. IMO, there is simply no reason whatsoever to allow for mistreatment of others, so I guess that if I discovered a bullying situation (or lets say, WHEN I've discovered them) I simply go straight to the parents and let them know what is happening. In fact I've just done that with a situation with a neighborhood kid. If it's not solved, we try to limit contact. So I guess I'm of the school of thought that absolutely no one is entitled to mistreat, verbally abuse, or taunt my kid, under any circumstances. I assume these things happen often, so I sometimes deal with this child directly if they are in my house and their parents aren't. I assume teaching\civilizing kids is a normal part of growing up, but I also assume that there is no justification for these behaviors. It honestly would have never occurred to me to coach my kid to do anything if they were bullied but to bring it to me. While they are still children, I mean.

 

I posted this spin off because I sensed a---permissability? maybe, in the earlier thread for these behaviors, and a sense that it's a part of life, so we have to teach kids how to handle it. I guess I grudgingly agree, but at the same time, I really want to emphasize to my kids who is in the wrong here. One gripe with how I see some local schools handling the bullying issue is a reluctance to assign blame onto the bully and an eagerness to coach bullied kids on how to be more acceptable to their tormentors.

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Ever ok? Nope. Not in my book.

 

Then again, there IS a difference to me when it comes to bullying. Kids engaged in a verbal sparring match isn't bullying.

 

Bullying, to ME, is something that instills fear in another child. It can be verbal, without any physical violence. You can arrest adults for 'battery' here in Canada. which is solely verbal. So's uttering death threats. And then there's the physical aspect, of course.

 

Imo, (which I may get flame broiled for) I think in the younger set, a bully may be best solved by fighting back. Unfortunately, the victim would get suspended with the bully, but it may solve the bully problem in the long run.

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I agree.

 

I noticed a situation in the high school. I had this one girl in several classes, including an AP course. Was she obnoxious as a protection from the bullying or was she obnoxious which invited the bullying? Who knows at this point. However, it shouldn't matter either. Regardless of how she is, the bullying should not be allowed in any way, shape, or form!

 

I think the problem is that people (teachers) don't know HOW to do something about it. I was sitting in one classroom as the ELL aid (substitute) and saw this dynamic play out further as the teacher had rearranged the classroom and seating chart. Talk about an uproar. But the teacher's response was, "that will be enough" and "give it a chance; let's just see." It's just inefficient and ineffective! That may be an appropriate response for a substitute (along with a note to the teacher), but if that is the best that a high school teacher can do, then bullied kids are in deep trouble!

 

Honestly, that young lady's situation still REALLY bothers me. Is she going to be another news story?

Edited by 2J5M9K
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I do not think anyone has the right to torment or terrorize another person no matter the age.

 

I posted this spin off because I sensed a---permissability? maybe, in the earlier thread for these behaviors, and a sense that it's a part of life, so we have to teach kids how to handle it.

I know there will be those that disagree with me, but I have to say I equate bullying with domestic violence. The above "its a part of life and we need to teach our kids how to handle it" is just like saying "what happens between a man and a woman is no one else's business"

 

In school I was bullied and terrorized by one particular person for 3 years. Not too long after high school I was in a very brief abusive relationship. The fears I felt were the same. Fortunately there was not a great deal of emotional involvement and I could see clearly the need to get out.

 

I think bullying needs to become as socially unacceptable as domestic violence. I think laws need to be passed along the same lines as separate domestic violence laws. There needs to be funding for re-education. There needs to be a zero-tolerance in schools and other places children gather.

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Ever ok? Nope. Not in my book.

 

Then again, there IS a difference to me when it comes to bullying. Kids engaged in a verbal sparring match isn't bullying.

 

Bullying, to ME, is something that instills fear in another child. It can be verbal, without any physical violence. You can arrest adults for 'battery' here in Canada. which is solely verbal. So's uttering death threats. And then there's the physical aspect, of course.

 

Imo, (which I may get flame broiled for) I think in the younger set, a bully may be best solved by fighting back. Unfortunately, the victim would get suspended with the bully, but it may solve the bully problem in the long run.

 

:iagree:

No flame here...just had this experience w/ 5 yr old dd. She's been relentlessly harassed by another 5 yr old girl on her soccer team...calling names, bossing her around, stepping on her foot, crushing flowers she's looking at during practice (there's a lot of flower picking in this age group!), telling the other kids to ignore and exclude her...the coach has 12 kids to keep track of, so it's too much for the coach to really fix...we told our dd to just avoid her, move away from her during warm ups, and ignore her, which she attempted to do.

 

...well, week 4, and the brat was up to her nonsense during a game (both were on the sidelines resting)...and my dd5 finally had enough...after getting pulled on by the brat, mine proceeded to windmill punch and push this little brat all the way down the sidelines! The coach stepped in and made both kids sit for the rest of the game...after the game the brat went home screaming her head off, mine was fine...we discussed the event at home, but I saw no need to punish her...she was protecting herself, when no adult would on her behalf.

 

Week 5, the FORMER brat was completely sweet and kind to my DD5 !!!! and it held up for the whole game! So, maybe getting 'stood up to' made an impression! Maybe her mom & dad finally recognized the problem and delivered some justice at home...I hope so, for both kids' sakes. We'll see how this weekend's game goes...

 

I think a lot of the real violence and bullying nonsense we see today could be fixed by self-regulation, or fighting back...I wish I could go back in time and deliver some well-earned bloody noses, myself, but I was too fearful of getting in trouble (zero-tolerance, you know), getting suspended, and not getting into the college of my choice :001_huh:. So I suffered with bullying pretty much my whole PS career.

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:iagree:

No flame here...just had this experience w/ 5 yr old dd. She's been relentlessly harassed by another 5 yr old girl on her soccer team...calling names, bossing her around, stepping on her foot, crushing flowers she's looking at during practice (there's a lot of flower picking in this age group!), telling the other kids to ignore and exclude her...the coach has 12 kids to keep track of, so it's too much for the coach to really fix...we told our dd to just avoid her, move away from her during warm ups, and ignore her, which she attempted to do.

 

...well, week 4, and the brat was up to her nonsense during a game (both were on the sidelines resting)...and my dd5 finally had enough...after getting pulled on by the brat, mine proceeded to windmill punch and push this little brat all the way down the sidelines! The coach stepped in and made both kids sit for the rest of the game...after the game the brat went home screaming her head off, mine was fine...we discussed the event at home, but I saw no need to punish her...she was protecting herself, when no adult would on her behalf.

 

Week 5, the FORMER brat was completely sweet and kind to my DD5 !!!! and it held up for the whole game! So, maybe getting 'stood up to' made an impression! Maybe her mom & dad finally recognized the problem and delivered some justice at home...I hope so, for both kids' sakes. We'll see how this weekend's game goes...

 

I think a lot of the real violence and bullying nonsense we see today could be fixed by self-regulation, or fighting back...I wish I could go back in time and deliver some well-earned bloody noses, myself, but I was too fearful of getting in trouble (zero-tolerance, you know), getting suspended, and not getting into the college of my choice :001_huh:. So I suffered with bullying pretty much my whole PS career.

 

Great story!

 

Keep us updated!

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I guess that if I discovered a bullying situation (or lets say, WHEN I've discovered them) I simply go straight to the parents and let them know what is happening ... So I guess I'm of the school of thought that absolutely no one is entitled to mistreat, verbally abuse, or taunt my kid, under any circumstances. I assume these things happen often, so I sometimes deal with this child directly if they are in my house and their parents aren't. I assume teaching\civilizing kids is a normal part of growing up, but I also assume that there is no justification for these behaviors.

 

I kind of agree with this, and kind of don't. One one hand if I'm observing someone being deliberately cruel to my child (or any other child), there's no way I could stop myself from saying "That is not acceptable!"

 

On the other hand, there is a lot of behavior that falls into "teasing" and not bullying. Kids are emotional, temperamental, impulsive, and immature. ALL children, no matter how well parented, are capable of being mean to others. They lash out at each other and there's just no way to prevent that 100%. I also can't take over and act as the behavior police for every kid I meet (trust me, other parents don't like that).

 

It IS a useful skill for kids to learn to defend themselves verbally without relying on Mom to handle it. Short of full-on bullying, I prefer my kids use their own skills to deflect a kid who is making trouble. One of the best ways to disarm a meanie is to grow a thick skin and not let the meanie bother you, but it's difficult to shrug off teasing if Mom treats every misbehavior as a criminal act.

 

Kids act mean when they feel bad about themselves. Escalating a relatively minor situation (shaming the meanie, confronting the parents) is probably not going to improve anything, and may even make your child a bigger target when your back is turned.

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The thread about parents teaching kids how to handle bullies got me thinking. IMO, there is simply no reason whatsoever to allow for mistreatment of others, so I guess that if I discovered a bullying situation (or lets say, WHEN I've discovered them) I simply go straight to the parents and let them know what is happening. In fact I've just done that with a situation with a neighborhood kid. If it's not solved, we try to limit contact. So I guess I'm of the school of thought that absolutely no one is entitled to mistreat, verbally abuse, or taunt my kid, under any circumstances. I assume these things happen often, so I sometimes deal with this child directly if they are in my house and their parents aren't. I assume teaching\civilizing kids is a normal part of growing up, but I also assume that there is no justification for these behaviors. It honestly would have never occurred to me to coach my kid to do anything if they were bullied but to bring it to me. While they are still children, I mean.

 

I posted this spin off because I sensed a---permissability? maybe, in the earlier thread for these behaviors, and a sense that it's a part of life, so we have to teach kids how to handle it. I guess I grudgingly agree, but at the same time, I really want to emphasize to my kids who is in the wrong here. One gripe with how I see some local schools handling the bullying issue is a reluctance to assign blame onto the bully and an eagerness to coach bullied kids on how to be more acceptable to their tormentors.

 

The problem arises when there are different interpretations of what constitutes bullying. I've seen this so many times in during my involvement with Boy Scouts and working in co-ops and working in other settings with children and adults. Some adults and children are overly sensitive to *any* uncomfortable situation and call it "bullying". Others are too thick skinned and refuse to recognize when a situation is out of hand.

 

Anytime one deals with individuals, one will have issues. We all raise our children differently, we all have different goals for our children and ways to accomplish those goals, and we all will see the actions of others through our own personal lens and interpret any behavior based on our own perceptions. None of us is unbiased. That's why we need to extend as much grace as possible to those around us, and keep a close eye on our kiddos :D

 

Another thing to teach our kids is that they should expect to receive unwelcome treatment from another if they are tormenting another or being otherwise obnoxious. Some of our younger scouts are great "button pushers", but they run crying to momma when the one whose buttons were pushed react in kind. The older scouts are still kids too and may not be mature enough to handle a young rooster.

Edited by CynthiaOK
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No, it is never permissable. Yes, we need to teach our kids how to deal with being picked on, unless we plan to be in their physical presence at all times. Part of this means telling mom/dad if there's a situation they can't handle themselves. But kids also need to learn to stand up for themselves and to learn when to ignore a bully or mean kid.

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Well, in high school I was pretty quiet. One day I found out that the school bully had targeted my precious baby brother. Bully was a year younger than me, and a jock. I was a cheerleader and had a pretty strong backup system, and I devoted myself to making the bully miserable for a while. This included laying violent hands upon him in the hallway at school with plenty of witnesses. Everyone looked the other way, including teachers. I think everyone knew he had it coming to him. Since I was not a bully, (believe it or not I'm very easy going) I got away with it.

 

So, I was bully for a while and fully justified, at least I think so.

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TIt honestly would have never occurred to me to coach my kid to do anything if they were bullied but to bring it to me. While they are still children, I mean.

 

 

The problem with this is that unless you are with your child every minute, then by the time your child can come to you for help, it is too late. Then, it becomes your child's word against the other child or even a pack of children, and it may be very difficult for you and the other adults to fully understand what is happening.

 

One child says the other kids were being mean. The other child says he wasn't being mean on purpose and didn't realize how much it bothered the first. Or, he claims the other child was bullying him. Or they say nothing happened, or whatever....People are going to be unkind and hurtful and I think children should be given the tools to practice handling it themselves as soon as they are old enough to play without direct supervision. If they can't resolve it themselves, of course they should be able to get help from adults and parents but I don't think it should be the first and only thing they have been taught to do.

 

As for if bullying is ever acceptable, I guess it depends on how you define it. I think it is never acceptable to intentionally hurt another person and especially to target someone for repeated insults and attacks. On the other hand, I don't think children should be forced to be friends and play with everyone all the time. For instance, we met a friend of my son's at a park last week. The boys hadn't seen each other in months and really wanted to just sit and talk and play their own games together. A little boy they didn't know wanted to play with them and they told him that they hadn't seen each other in a long time and really just wanted to play by themselves. I give that it would have been nice for them to include the boy, but I didn't feel that I needed to step in and make them play with him. As the time went on, the boy wouldn't leave them or the mom of my son's friend and me alone. He kept getting in their faces and shouting "play with me." He told them they were bullies because they were leaving him out. He followed them and alternated between telling them they were mean and begging to play. He came up to me and my friend and told us how rude our boys were and that they were bullying him. It was ridiculous. I'm sure he went home thinking he had been bullied. Maybe his mom (who watched but never intervened) thought he was bullied too. But, all our kids did was say they wanted to play alone, and I think that is something kids should be allowed to do. Not everyone has to be best friends. Our boys never touched him or hurt him. They didn't follow him around calling him names. They just didn't want to play with him. I think kids should learn not to bully but they should also learn that not every social insult is bullying.

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"Kids act mean when they feel bad about themselves."

 

I don't agree that this is always the case. Sometimes, definitely. But I've seen too much of this to agree completely. In many cases, kids bully because they can, basically. They are driven to it for more complicated reasons, IMO. Case in point-neighbor boy, who is friends with my middle ds, bullies my youngest. It takes the form of, "You don't know the square root of 25? You're stupid!" or taunting him when he can't physically do something boys 3 years older do-just stupid, meaningless, do-it-because-I-can stuff, aggravated by their desire to drive him away so they can do stuff he's not allowed to be included in.

 

I just don't think helping bullies to feel better about themselves is the solution (not saying that anyone suggested that in this thread, but I have seen that as a partial solution in school-based anti-bullying campaigns). What's effective that I've seen is: 1) Remudamom's solution, and my dh's-punch the tormentor in full view of an approving adult. Although I can't help think-if those adults were aware and approved, why didn't they address the bully in the first place?? 2) Adults confront the bully and lay out absolutely clear consequences. Worked in two situations I'm personally aware of. 3) Supervise closely and nip it in the bud-what I use for younger kids. I tamed a notorious neighborhood bully by catching him in the act several times and putting clear consequences in place. He loves to come over now and has learned how to be a nice person-when he is here at least.

 

In the end, as a parent I think defending my kids in whatever way is needed is far more important, for me, than teaching them how to avoid being bullied.

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The problem with this is that unless you are with your child every minute, then by the time your child can come to you for help, it is too late. Then, it becomes your child's word against the other child or even a pack of children, and it may be very difficult for you and the other adults to fully understand what is happening.

 

One child says the other kids were being mean. The other child says he wasn't being mean on purpose and didn't realize how much it bothered the first. Or, he claims the other child was bullying him. Or they say nothing happened, or whatever....People are going to be unkind and hurtful and I think children should be given the tools to practice handling it themselves as soon as they are old enough to play without direct supervision. If they can't resolve it themselves, of course they should be able to get help from adults and parents but I don't think it should be the first and only thing they have been taught to do.

 

As for if bullying is ever acceptable, I guess it depends on how you define it. I think it is never acceptable to intentionally hurt another person and especially to target someone for repeated insults and attacks. On the other hand, I don't think children should be forced to be friends and play with everyone all the time. For instance, we met a friend of my son's at a park last week. The boys hadn't seen each other in months and really wanted to just sit and talk and play their own games together. A little boy they didn't know wanted to play with them and they told him that they hadn't seen each other in a long time and really just wanted to play by themselves. I give that it would have been nice for them to include the boy, but I didn't feel that I needed to step in and make them play with him. As the time went on, the boy wouldn't leave them or the mom of my son's friend and me alone. He kept getting in their faces and shouting "play with me." He told them they were bullies because they were leaving him out. He followed them and alternated between telling them they were mean and begging to play. He came up to me and my friend and told us how rude our boys were and that they were bullying him. It was ridiculous. I'm sure he went home thinking he had been bullied. Maybe his mom (who watched but never intervened) thought he was bullied too. But, all our kids did was say they wanted to play alone, and I think that is something kids should be allowed to do. Not everyone has to be best friends. Our boys never touched him or hurt him. They didn't follow him around calling him names. They just didn't want to play with him. I think kids should learn not to bully but they should also learn that not every social insult is bullying.

:iagree:You put this very well! We have been dealing with situation at church, and unfortunately because of the over-use of the word "bully" it's harder to recognize real bullying.

 

I have 3 boys...and our church is filled with a ton of little rambuncious boys. Last week they jumped in the car saying "So in so...was bullying us!!!! They locked us in a room!!!!" At first I freaked, but something gave me a bit of check. SO I began asking questions...Were you ruffhousing? Yes. Did you ask them to stop? "they wouldn't!" "DID YOU ASK?" "no."

 

What do you mean "they locked you in the kids church room?" "Well we all ran down there, and they wouldn't let us out!" "How did you get out?" "We told them we would tell Pastor DH." "So...they did let you out?" hmmmmmm...

 

So, they got new ground rules on WHERE they could play, what to say when they wanted something to stop, to come to us, and if they were incapable (being restrained) of coming to us...and they had told them to stop...then they could bite, claw, kick, or punch there wat free to us.

 

We had a long discussion about walking away and coming to find us, but what they could do if all other options were discussed.

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Bullying is never ok unless it is in self-defense. Other than that it really is hard to know the best way to handle it. When my 14 yr. old got her facebook acct. a boy made a mean remark to her. Not crude or obscene but just mean. I very politely post that what he said was inappropriate. I was the first person to comment. 25 of her friends followed suit. The boy apologized and removed his comment. However, my dd removed my comment because it was embarrasing but who knows if the other 25 people would have said anything if I had not. I have to be a little bit sneakier now by pointing things out to her girlfriends and then they take over but it still works.

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I posted this spin off because I sensed a---permissability? maybe, in the earlier thread for these behaviors, and a sense that it's a part of life, so we have to teach kids how to handle it. I guess I grudgingly agree, but at the same time, I really want to emphasize to my kids who is in the wrong here. One gripe with how I see some local schools handling the bullying issue is a reluctance to assign blame onto the bully and an eagerness to coach bullied kids on how to be more acceptable to their tormentors.
:iagree: Telling the victim that they need to change something about themselves to avoid those problems in the future makes it their 'fault' that they were bullied.
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I do not think anyone has the right to torment or terrorize another person no matter the age.

 

 

I know there will be those that disagree with me, but I have to say I equate bullying with domestic violence. The above "its a part of life and we need to teach our kids how to handle it" is just like saying "what happens between a man and a woman is no one else's business"

 

In school I was bullied and terrorized by one particular person for 3 years. Not too long after high school I was in a very brief abusive relationship. The fears I felt were the same. Fortunately there was not a great deal of emotional involvement and I could see clearly the need to get out.

 

I think bullying needs to become as socially unacceptable as domestic violence. I think laws need to be passed along the same lines as separate domestic violence laws. There needs to be funding for re-education. There needs to be a zero-tolerance in schools and other places children gather.

 

This is a very good point. My sister was bullied in HS - proceeded to an emotionally abusive relationship and now, 10 years later is divorced and dealing with the results of an emotionally abusive marriage with 3 children. No one at the school thought there was a problem with verbal bullying - she didn't get her rear kicked by these kids, but the acceptance of their treatment told her it was her problem, not a problem with others. She still views her relationships that way - if there's a problem it must be her fault, not the fact that the man is a scumbag.

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This is a very good point. My sister was bullied in HS - proceeded to an emotionally abusive relationship and now, 10 years later is divorced and dealing with the results of an emotionally abusive marriage with 3 children. No one at the school thought there was a problem with verbal bullying - she didn't get her rear kicked by these kids, but the acceptance of their treatment told her it was her problem, not a problem with others. She still views her relationships that way - if there's a problem it must be her fault, not the fact that the man is a scumbag.

Exactly. She must have done her hair wrong, or chosen the wrong clothes, or liked reading too much :glare:

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I know there will be those that disagree with me, but I have to say I equate bullying with domestic violence. The above "its a part of life and we need to teach our kids how to handle it" is just like saying "what happens between a man and a woman is no one else's business"

 

 

Just as there are women who will accuse a man of abuse because he is crabby or uncommunicative, there are people who will call it "bullying" when children are engaging in normal childhood teasing.

 

And just as the man probably should restrain his crabbiness, children probably shouldn't tease. But it's not necessarily bullying when they do in milder ways, and I don't want my children to come tattle to me every time someone teases them. I do expect them to learn to handle that gracefully, and I trust them and think they need to learn to trust themselves to deal with some negative interactions without my help.

 

I guess bullying is like p@rn, it's hard to define where the line is, but we all believe that we know it when we see it. There is some quality of meanness, persistence, threatening, etc that make someone bullying rather than teasing. I can't say where the line is, but I personally want my children to figure out what is clearly just teasing, one-upsmanship, sports related smack talk etc and just cope. If I had reason to believe someone was harrassing, hurting or threatening my child, I would take that very seriously.

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I disagree that teaching kids how to deter bullies will make them think the bullying was their fault. The techniques I'm referring to are things like making strong eye contact, saying "No!" loudly and firmly, explaining that the behavior is not going to be tolerated and will be reported, etc. Of course the child didn't invite bullying and shouldn't be blamed, and of course adults should be involved. But at the same time, why deny him self defense tactics?

 

There are plenty of reasons to be comfortable being assertive. Becoming "bully-proof" is only one of them. If my child is not assertive enough in peer interactions, I will help her learn to be more assertive. Not necessarily because I'm concerned she'll be bullied, but because I want her to grow into a confident, assertive woman.

 

Learning that one can stand up to a bully is empowering. It does not shame the child. It lets him know that he can take an active and vocal role in refusing to be mistreated. I'm not arguing that other action shouldn't be taken. But helping a child be a less appealing victim is not going to make the problem worse.

 

On the other hand, I'll admit that teaching kids to stand up for themselves is only a bandaid. We need to address why kids become bullies. I believe the longer term solution is the one described in the book Hold on to Your Kids, which was mentioned earlier in this thread. The author believes that when kids are excessively "peer oriented," and get out of the habit of looking to adults for frequent guidance, both bullies and victims are the natural result. The whole book is about why and how to avoid excessive peer orientation.

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And yet, if a child has a behavior that IS socially unacceptable, and is bullied as a result, isn't it more merciful to coach the child toward more acceptable behavior?

 

My oldest had to be coached about maintaining proper personal space. He spent much of his childhood with low vision and I think that played into his difficulty in recognizing personal space. Even though there was actually a physical cause, I think it would have been remiss of me to not tell him "People, other boys, etc... don't LIKE IT when you get that close. That makes them uncomfortable and they want to get further away from you. You need to back off a bit, son."

 

Some kids NEED to be taught how not to make others uncomfortable. It isn't their fault that their behavior makes other people uncomfortable, but that doesn't change the fact that it does have that effect.

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My point of view is that all of of those views are correct in their given contexts.

 

1. It's not okay to BLAME, the victim.

 

2. It is good and healthy to TEACH the victim skills needed to avoid neg. situation and relationships.

 

3. It's good to EMPOWER victim to take care of themselves, or get themselves the care they need.

 

;)

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My point of view is that all of of those views are correct in their given contexts.

 

1. It's not okay to BLAME, the victim.

 

2. It is good and healthy to TEACH the victim skills needed to avoid neg. situation and relationships.

 

3. It's good to EMPOWER victim to take care of themselves, or get themselves the care they need.

 

;)

 

:iagree:

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And yet, if a child has a behavior that IS socially unacceptable, and is bullied as a result, isn't it more merciful to coach the child toward more acceptable behavior?

 

My oldest had to be coached about maintaining proper personal space. He spent much of his childhood with low vision and I think that played into his difficulty in recognizing personal space. Even though there was actually a physical cause, I think it would have been remiss of me to not tell him "People, other boys, etc... don't LIKE IT when you get that close. That makes them uncomfortable and they want to get further away from you. You need to back off a bit, son."

 

Some kids NEED to be taught how not to make others uncomfortable. It isn't their fault that their behavior makes other people uncomfortable, but that doesn't change the fact that it does have that effect.

 

This is a great example.

I agree that it is more merciful to coach children toward more acceptable behavior -- especially if they must spend 30 hrs each week in a largely unsupervised peer situation.

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:iagree:

No flame here...just had this experience w/ 5 yr old dd. She's been relentlessly harassed by another 5 yr old girl on her soccer team...calling names, bossing her around, stepping on her foot, crushing flowers she's looking at during practice (there's a lot of flower picking in this age group!), telling the other kids to ignore and exclude her...the coach has 12 kids to keep track of, so it's too much for the coach to really fix...we told our dd to just avoid her, move away from her during warm ups, and ignore her, which she attempted to do.

 

...well, week 4, and the brat was up to her nonsense during a game (both were on the sidelines resting)...and my dd5 finally had enough...after getting pulled on by the brat, mine proceeded to windmill punch and push this little brat all the way down the sidelines! The coach stepped in and made both kids sit for the rest of the game...after the game the brat went home screaming her head off, mine was fine...we discussed the event at home, but I saw no need to punish her...she was protecting herself, when no adult would on her behalf.

 

Week 5, the FORMER brat was completely sweet and kind to my DD5 !!!! and it held up for the whole game! So, maybe getting 'stood up to' made an impression! Maybe her mom & dad finally recognized the problem and delivered some justice at home...I hope so, for both kids' sakes. We'll see how this weekend's game goes...

 

I think a lot of the real violence and bullying nonsense we see today could be fixed by self-regulation, or fighting back...I wish I could go back in time and deliver some well-earned bloody noses, myself, but I was too fearful of getting in trouble (zero-tolerance, you know), getting suspended, and not getting into the college of my choice :001_huh:. So I suffered with bullying pretty much my whole PS career.

 

Week Six UPDATE: my DD5 and the Former Bully got along again today like best buddies...the other girl was sweet, friendly and playful with none of the former maliciousness! My DD was delighted, as were her older sisters. DW's comment was, "she figured out it was easier and safer to be friends than to pick on her, I guess!" Season is over next week...Guess this is a happy ending for DD5.

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I agree. When my oldest was in K and was bullied on the playground, the teachers who were monitoring and saw what was occurring refused to deal with the problem. They wouldn't even allow him to tell them about the problem. He was "tattling" and all such behavior was to be discouraged. *He* was the problem for drawing attention to it, rather than the bully.

 

The same thing happened to us later in a scouting situation. When he reported to adults who were supposed to be in charge that some boys were using aerosol cans to make flame throwers (an extremely dangerous endeavor), he was first ignored, but when he persisted he was told not to be a "tattle tale".....

 

I'm not quite sure when it happened that children are not supposed to come to adults to deal with inappropriate behavior by other children, but it seems to be pervasive in schools these days.... And then in situations where "everyone" in the school knew that some kid was going to kill himself or come to school and kill others and they didn't tell the adults, the adults can't figure out why......

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The problem with this is that unless you are with your child every minute, then by the time your child can come to you for help, it is too late. Then, it becomes your child's word against the other child or even a pack of children, and it may be very difficult for you and the other adults to fully understand what is happening.

 

Exactly. Bullying is never acceptable, and that's why you have to teach your child how to "handle" a bully. They will be bullied, and they need to know how to defend themselves. With regard to the comparison to domestic violence, yes domestic violence is never OK, but ultimately women have to be empowered to be able to recognize the abuser's manipulative tactics and to resist them and leave. I think empowering kids to handle bullying is the best way to minimize bullying.

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