Elizabeth's Phonics Lessons + Blend Phonics ???

[Rene']

Hello, I'm new to this forum, although I have read posts from here off and on for several years. I have 3 daughters who are 13, 10 and 8, and they have always been homeschooled.

 

All three of them have been late readers. My oldest picked up reading when she was about nine, and she reads A LOT with books ranging from Hank the Cowdog to Journey to the Center of the Earth. She was taught with a hodge podge of phonics lessons ranging from 100 EZ lessons to Alphabet Island to Rod and Staff. I started trying to teach her when she was about 6 and during those years it often seemed to be "2 steps froward, 1 step back", til she finally just picked it up and ran with it. She tries to sound out longer unfamiliar words, but usually sounds it out wrong. Last night she was reading Nancy Drew and came to the word "foreign" and she put in a hard "g" sound and said "forgen?" So I'm thinking she needs more phonics/syllable instructions.

 

My 10 year old also used most of 100 EZ lessons as well as a few lessons from Word Mastery several years ago and some lessons from A beka's New Blue-Backed Speller. She is beginning to read the readers by Harriette Taylor Treadwell. I formatted the stories for the Kindle and she is having a great time using that, but again, she struggles sounding out new words.

 

My 8 year old has *just* now been able to remember the letter sounds. She got about halfway through 100 EZ lessons but it became too hard for her and I was having to tell her most of the sounds anyway so a few months ago I just put it away. I bought the Leap Frog Letter Factory dvd for her and she watched it a few times and it really did seem to help! She has read a couple of stories from the Primer written by Harriette Treadwell, but she doesn't know how to sound out words on her own.

 

I did buy into the Phonics + Sight Word idea, teaching them letter sounds, but when they came to a word they did not know I would just tell them the word most of the time.

 

Okay, after that long intro... I recently came across Blend Phonics on Don's page, and research led me here to read Elizabeth's posts, which led me to her website. I've been reading about reading until my eyes wanted to pop out of my head. I dreamed about words and letters last night.

 

I wrote to Don yesterday and he was so very helpful and suggested that I do Blend Phonics with all the girls, but that I could combine that with Elizabeth's Phonics Lessons for my older two daughters.

 

I can't figure out how to combine them. Or should I? Should I just do the Phonics Lessons with my oldest daughter, and Blend Phonics with the younger two? I also want to use Webster's with all of them. If I use both Blend Phonics and the Phonics Lessons, do I just to Lesson 1 and Unit 1 together and stay at it like that? Blend Phonics is supposed to take 4 months, while Phonics Lessons is supposed to be short - 1 month or 2.

 

Some options I've thought of:

 

Blend Phonics with all 3, then Phonics Lessons with my older two, Word Mastery with my youngest, then Webster's for all?

 

Or skip Blend Phonics for my oldest and do Phonics Lessons, or should I go straight into Webster's with her?

 

OR, is Blend Phonics too young for all of them and I should go with Phonics Lessons?

 

One last thing, (I think) I want to teach the girls cursive now, after reading an article about teaching cursive first on Don's website. Should I teach them how to write in cursive before starting these phonics courses so that their writing and letter sounds and all that is consistent?

Edited October 20, 2010 by Rene'

[Rene']

Bump. :)

Wow, this board moves fast!

[Lolosoli]

I'm interested in your responses as well!

 

My ds is 8 1/2 and is having issues with reading...

 

I'm off to research some more!

[ElizabethB]

First, I would give them all a before and after MWIA and both the NRRF and Wide Range reading grade level tests. The NRRF is a better, more accurate test overall, but the Wide Range test records incremental progress better. (The NRRF grade levels are a grade or two below current norms, they are what the norms were in the late 1800's and early 1900's when phonics was well taught.)

 

Here are the tests:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

 

Then, I would have them all watch through my lesson 14 quickly. You can always repeat them again, and it will give them a good overview and make it easier for you to teach the speller. The long and short syllables have all been taught to that point. (Your 8 year old can wander off for the middle portion of the movies if they are too long and difficult for her, but have her watch the beginning sounds and syllables part and have her come back again for the what a difference 1 letter makes portion at the end.)

 

I have written a guide to using Blend Phonics that adds in the Webster syllables and also adds in Spelling Rules and syllable division rules. After you get through lesson 14 of my online lessons, I would add this in while continuing with my online lessons. How to work through all this is explained on my how to tutor page, and the files you will need are linked at the end. When you finish Blend Phonics, you can move to the Speller.

 

The phonics concentration game linked from my how to tutor page can also be played while watching the movies, it is a good fun way to reinforce what is being learned. And, you can play with 3 players, so you can help moderate while your daughters play. They should take turns keeping score to help with their math. The game is correlated to both the phonics lessons and blend phonics. Play only with tiles for which you have watched movies or done Blend Phonics lessons.

 

Word Mastery is nice, but I would just stick with the things above for ease of use.

 

When you do Blend Phonics, you can have your daughters take turns spelling and reading words from each unit. And, Webster's Speller will work the same way, but you should start each day with a few syllables together but and allow your girls to work through at their own pace, alternating who you are working with. (The others can follow along, it will either be review or preview for them.)

 

If they are guessing a lot, you should use the uppercase 1824 Webster's Speller. If they don't guess much and just need to build up confidence, I would use the 1908. Don has a file he made with the reading grade level of each of the stories for the 1908 speller, my remedial students love to tell their parents "I read 5th grade level today, or 8th grade level today or 12th grade level today!"

 

I don't think he has posted the grade level document online yet, I can e-mail it to you if you send a regular e-mail.

[grace'smom]

The link to the Step by step guide to using blend phonics with webster's syllables included does not seem to be working...

[ElizabethB]

The link to the Step by step guide to using blend phonics with webster's syllables included does not seem to be working...

 

Hmm...It is working on my computer. Maybe you have an old version in your cache? If you refresh the page, it should show the new link. I had to change some of the links when our computer crashed, it was pointing to a hard drive that doesn't exist anymore, I've been changing them over the last 2 months as I find them.

 

Here is the link:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/Resources/Blend%20Phonics%20Syllablesa.pdf

Edited October 20, 2010 by ElizabethB

[Rene']

Thank you so much Elizabeth!

 

The pdf links are not working for me either - they say 404 not found. I opened your website in a different browser to try the links there and they still did not work, however the link you just posted opened.

 

ETA: The links at the very bottom under your summary are working fine, but the ones found within your article are not working.

 

I printed out your game yesterday and have the cards all laminated with contact paper and cut out. It looks like fun! :)

 

What do you think about my cursive question?

Edited October 20, 2010 by Rene'

[kwickimom]

The pdf links are not working for me either - they say 404 not found. I opened your website in a different browser to try the links there and they still did not work, however the link you just posted opened.

 

ETA: The links at the very bottom under your summary are working fine, but the ones found within your article are not working.

 

I had the same issues, only the bottom links worked.

Edited October 20, 2010 by kwickimom
typo

[ElizabethB]

ETA: The links at the very bottom under your summary are working fine' date=' but the ones found within your article are not working.

 

I printed out your game yesterday and have the cards all laminated with contact paper and cut out. It looks like fun! :)

 

What do you think about my cursive question?[/quote']

 

I had the same issues, only the bottom links worked.

 

OK, they should all be fixed now. Fixing all the pdf links has been quite a pain! I hope our hard drive does not crash again, I don't recommend it. (We had back-ups, but it was still a pain, there have been a lot of little things to fix and adjust with our files and the website.)

 

The game is a hit with all my remedial students. Even older students and adults enjoy it, although I haven't yet tried it with older teens.

 

I like to combine cursive with spelling and phonics practice. You don't have to wait. I use the ZB self-instruction manual and have students write on a white board. At first, we just learn how to write the letters one at a time while saying their sounds. Then, they write simple words and sound them out while saying them. I use the order in the manual, and also do some nonsense words and syllables, so I start with things like it, if, ip, et, then lip, let, jet, etc. I also like to contrast vowels while teaching spelling rules: oi within a word, oy at the end, I will have the student spell coin and coy then boil and boy. Another example: ou within a word, ow at end: out, how. Or, eu within word, ew at end: europe, few; au within word, aw at end: autumn, draw. (Native english words don't end in u or i. I would give help for autumn or track down an easier au word from "The ABCs and All Their Tricks," that's just all that came to mind right now.)

[MicheleinMN]

:lurk5:

[Rene']

First, I would give them all a before and after MWIA and both the NRRF and Wide Range reading grade level tests. The NRRF is a better, more accurate test overall, but the Wide Range test records incremental progress better.

 

I'm not quite sure how the Wide Range Reading Test works. The notes at the bottom say "Seven consecutive failures indicate Frustration Level." - what if they miss some but it's not consecutive? I was reading through it myself, and about the twelfth line down (raw score 88) I did not know a couple of words, but in the next line there were several that I could read. It was that way from that point on. I'd miss one or two and then I knew several. Are there points taken off from the Raw Score for missing one or two?

[ElizabethB]

I'm not quite sure how the Wide Range Reading Test works. The notes at the bottom say "Seven consecutive failures indicate Frustration Level." - what if they miss some but it's not consecutive? I was reading through it myself' date=' and about the twelfth line down (raw score 88) I did not know a couple of words, but in the next line there were several that I could read. It was that way from that point on. I'd miss one or two and then I knew several. Are there points taken off from the Raw Score for missing one or two?[/quote']

 

Your score is based on the number of words right. If you get 76 words right, you score a 7.6 grade level. If they miss some but not consecutive, that's fine, you just mark up the words (I like to put an X above the wrong words on my copy of the test, I make two copies for all the tests I do so I'm not looking over their shoulder) and count the total correct at the end. You quit when they miss 7 in a row, or for younger students or students who don't have a high tolerance for frustration, after they miss 3 or 4 in a row and are starting to get frustrated with themselves and the test. With my older students, they will often miss 3 or 4 or 5 in a row but then go on to get a few right on the next line.

[Rene']

Thank you! I understand now.

[Rene']

Elizabeth, I have a quick question about the tests. My 13 yr old daughter took the Reading Competency Test and was able to read through all the groups on both parts 1 and 2. it says group 6 of part 2 would be equivalent to high-school level reading today.

 

On the Wide Range reading test, she scored a 66 - so grade 6, 6th month.

 

So, how do I tell her what grade level she is reading at?

[ElizabethB]

Elizabeth' date=' I have a quick question about the tests. My 13 yr old daughter took the Reading Competency Test and was able to read through all the groups on both parts 1 and 2. it says group 6 of part 2 would be equivalent to high-school level reading today.

 

On the Wide Range reading test, she scored a 66 - so grade 6, 6th month.

 

So, how do I tell her what grade level she is reading at?[/quote']

 

She's reading at at least the 6th grade level. To find out what grade level, have her take the rest of the test on the bottom of my reading grade level test page, it goes up to 12th grade level. The Wide Range test is a flat curve, higher at the bottom levels than in should be and lower at the top levels than it should be. The NRRF norms are higher than todays norms, but where a student well taught with a conventional phonics program should expect to be if there are no underlying problems.

 

Here is the page with the tests:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

[Rene']

Elizabeth, I just have to tell you thank you so much for the online phonics videos. We've been doing them this week and already we are seeing so much progress. My girls really enjoy them! I can't tell you how excited they all were when they were able to sound out "ESTABLISH" on their own. :hurray:

 

My oldest daughter, who is 13, told me that the videos are really helping because, in the past, when she came to a word she didn't know she would just skip it, but now she is sounding it out. Last night my 8 yo dd read Hop On Pop to me and when she came upon a two-syllable word she told me where the divide would be!

 

I am thrilled with how well this is working. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

[ElizabethB]

Elizabeth' date=' I just have to tell you thank you so much for the online phonics videos. We've been doing them this week and already we are seeing so much progress. My girls really enjoy them! I can't tell you how excited they all were when they were able to sound out "ESTABLISH" on their own. :hurray:

 

My oldest daughter, who is 13, told me that the videos are really helping because, in the past, when she came to a word she didn't know she would just skip it, but now she is sounding it out. Last night my 8 yo dd read Hop On Pop to me and when she came upon a two-syllable word she told me where the divide would be!

 

I am thrilled with how well this is working. Thank you, thank you, thank you!![/quote']

 

:party:

 

That is great!! I'm glad they are working so well for you!!! :001_smile::001_smile:

[AngelBee]

Taking notes...

[Rene']

Elizabeth, I have a question concerning Lesson 9. A Spelling Rule says that if long A is in the middle of a word it's spelled "ai" and at the end it's spelled "ay" - the first spelling word you gave in the lesson was "fame". Two of my daughter's spelled it "faim".

 

The next word was "rail" - so, because they got "fame" wrong, they spelled this word "rale".

 

Is there any rule that says when to use "a_e" and when to use "ai" or is it more by sight and just knowing the word?

[ElizabethB]

Elizabeth' date=' I have a question concerning Lesson 9. A Spelling Rule says that if long A is in the middle of a word it's spelled "ai" and at the end it's spelled "ay" - the first spelling word you gave in the lesson was "fame". Two of my daughter's spelled it "faim".

 

The next word was "rail" - so, because they got "fame" wrong, they spelled this word "rale".

 

Is there any rule that says when to use "a_e" and when to use "ai" or is it more by sight and just knowing the word?[/quote']

 

Sorry, there is no rule to tell if it is male or mail. (I'm pretty sure! I've searched through hundreds of old spelling books and have never found a rule for this. Of course, I have been surprised with new rule and explanations for things in the past, but I'm pretty sure on this one.)