Math for a Very Young K5 Boy (Poll)

[Crimson Wife]

(Poll will appear shortly)

 

My DS doesn't turn 5 until next month but CA has a cutoff of 12/2 and he was reading so I enrolled him in the virtual charter for K this year. I did it mostly so that I could get the stipend for classes & materials. Unless something changes dramatically by this spring, he will do a 2nd year of kindergarten rather than move on to 1st next year.

 

I tried going slowly through Right Start Level A but it became clear to me that he wasn't ready. He liked the secondary topics in the lessons like the geometry and patterns but was getting frustrated with the main thing of visualizing numbers as 5 + __ . After a month, we were still on lesson 11 and he just wasn't "getting" it.

 

So I shelved RS and switched to MEP Reception. He :001_wub: it but it seems way too easy. He is flying through it, doing 3 or 4 lessons in a single day (and asking for more). I just don't know what I should do with him regarding math. I want to challenge him but not to the point of frustration.

 

ETA: He isn't writing yet so any program that includes a lot of workbook exercises would not be a good fit. I also don't have any charter funding left for materials until January & I really don't want to invest a lot of my own money on a different math program.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Crimson Wife

[zookeeperof3]

If he's enjoying MEP, I'd give year 1 a try.

Kim

[Karen in CO]

If he is loving the MEP you are doing, then stick with it. The main goal at this point is to wait until his brain is ready for visualising numbers. Until then, no math program is going to be any better than any other. Keep doing what you're doing so that he has a habit of "doing math" and thinks math is enjoyable.

[LoveBaby]

If he is loving the MEP you are doing, then stick with it. The main goal at this point is to wait until his brain is ready for visualising numbers. Until then, no math program is going to be any better than any other. Keep doing what you're doing so that he has a habit of "doing math" and thinks math is enjoyable.

:iagree:

[Zoo Keeper]

Your 5 year old and my five year old sound very similar; we're doing MEP reception, and while he does love it and wants to do more and more, I'm letting him have lots of time to explore math before I go on to MEP 1. He gets math concepts quickly, but I'm giving him time to time to explore these concepts frontwards, backwards, and inside out before we move on. I've done year one with my older two, and I think my younger one would get a lot of year one, but other aspects of it would be really frustrating for him. I want to keep that love of math and not push him over the edge.

 

So, we are playing around with some of the Miquon Orange book, and just having lots of free play with the c-rods. Just this morning, he was having a blast making rod stairs, and seeing that the orange rod (the ten) was the same as 10 whites (the ones). He then went on to do comparisons of more and less with the rods. I wrote some numbers out for him, and traced what he could with his crayons. We do a lot of "math talk" during the day informally (one to one correspondence, more or less, finding pairs and shapes, etc.) while setting the table, putting the shoes away, etc.

We are also doing a lot of sorting, patterning and sequenceing with blocks, stringing beads, empty yogurt containers, etc.

 

I know from your other posts that you are a good "math mom":), and that you are probably already doing this sort of stuff, but I thought I'd share what is working well for us.

[FO4UR]

If he is loving the MEP you are doing, then stick with it. The main goal at this point is to wait until his brain is ready for visualising numbers. Until then, no math program is going to be any better than any other. Keep doing what you're doing so that he has a habit of "doing math" and thinks math is enjoyable.

 

:iagree:

 

You could give Cuisenaire Rods a try as a manip. Some dc visualize those better/earlier/easier.

 

MEP year1 is challenging compared to all of the other math currics I've seen, and I wouldn't rush into it. He'll get more out of it with more maturity.

[Brenda in FL]

I said other - I would use math books form the library for children - read and do the activities. Play math type games once a week - (cards, uno, dominos).

 

Do you have to use a formal curriculum for him per the charter?

 

Not cheap, unless you can borrow or get used - go through the lesson activities in Saxon 1 without doing the worksheets. He gets solid math concepts and no writing.

[Farrar]

I put other. I would maybe start the MEP year 1, but not expect to finish it - it ramps up pretty fast. Since you already have RS A, I might also use that a little if the MEP gets frustrating. And then I would just play with cuisenaire rods and play math games and so forth. Maybe read math stories (like the Stuart J Murphy mathstart books from the library) and do puzzles and dot to dots. In other words, make use of what you've got, but don't push it.

 

But I'm less curriculumy than some. We did not do a formal math curriculum last year for K.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Since you have already said you will do 2 years of kindergarten, then I would continue with MEP reception. I would re-evaluate after finishing.

[Kuovonne]

[He] ...was getting frustrated with the main thing of visualizing numbers as 5 + __ . After a month, we were still on lesson 11 and he just wasn't "getting" it.

 

Does he not understand that 6 = 5 + 1, or does he simply not have the facts memorized? If he does't understand the concept that larger numbers are composed of smaller numbers, I'd set RightStart aside. If it's a question of memorizing the specific combinations, I'd work on the memorization separately and continue slowly through RightStart. (I'm a big RightStart fan.)

Edited October 19, 2010 by Kuovonne

[Tabrett]

I would stick with MEP and forget RS. My dd is not a visual person. I tired when she was your ds age, I tried the next year just like you are wanting to do and it just didn't work.

She did the first half of CLE 1 just fine and is doing SP 1 this year without problems.

 

I much as *I* loved RS and as much as *I* wanted it to work, it wasn't a fit for my dc. She is not a visual person and trying to make her visual is like this:banghead:

 

She is an aural learner and needs to count out loud.

[Crimson Wife]

I said other - I would use math books form the library for children - read and do the activities. Play math type games once a week - (cards, uno, dominos).

 

Do you have to use a formal curriculum for him per the charter?

 

This particular charter does require use of a formal math curriculum because in the past when they didn't, some of their students bombed the math portion of the STAR test & the poor results were threatening the renewal of the charter. Our Educational Specialist has told me that she doesn't care which curriculum we use or how quickly or slowly we go through it, just that we're using something consistently that has a logical sequence.

 

I do like "living math" books, math games, and hands-on activities like Family Math for Young Children but if I want to get the charter stipend, I need to have a formal curriculum in addition to the informal activities.

 

Not cheap, unless you can borrow or get used - go through the lesson activities in Saxon 1 without doing the worksheets. He gets solid math concepts and no writing.

 

I could call the charter's library to see if they have a copy of Saxon 1 that I could borrow. It often does have Saxon textbooks as that's a popular program & families are required to return non-consumable items. I previewed a copy of Saxon 5/4 for my oldest and didn't think it was a good "fit" for her but I haven't actually seen the lower levels of Saxon.

[TKDmom]

I'd finish MEP Reception, and then start with Miquon, if you felt that MEP Yr1 was going to be too much.

[Crimson Wife]

Does he not understand that 6 = 5 + 1, or does he simply not have the facts memorized? If he does't understand the concept that larger numbers are composed of smaller numbers, I'd set RightStart aside. If it's a question of memorizing the specific combinations, I'd work on the memorization separately and continue slowly through RightStart. (I'm a big RightStart fan.)

 

He can repeat the words to "Yellow is the Sun" but it's clear that he's just parroting something he doesn't really understand. If I show him fingers, tally sticks, the abacus, a picture of 5 objects circled plus some leftover objects, etc. he insists on counting from the beginning rather than recognizing the quantities or even counting up from 5 (which would at least show a basic understanding). I don't think he's ready for RS A at this point. I'm fine shelving it until later but that means figuring out what to do with him in the interim.

[Rivka]

I put other. I would maybe start the MEP year 1, but not expect to finish it - it ramps up pretty fast. Since you already have RS A, I might also use that a little if the MEP gets frustrating. And then I would just play with cuisenaire rods and play math games and so forth. Maybe read math stories (like the Stuart J Murphy mathstart books from the library) and do puzzles and dot to dots. In other words, make use of what you've got, but don't push it.

 

:iagree:

How nice that I don't have to type out a whole post, since Farrar did it for me.

[stripe]

I'd do MEP reception + other games. Including maybe Miquon or something? Perhaps when you finish reception?

[Spy Car]

I tried going slowly through Right Start Level A but it became clear to me that he wasn't ready. He liked the secondary topics in the lessons like the geometry and patterns but was getting frustrated with the main thing of visualizing numbers as 5 + __ . After a month, we were still on lesson 11 and he just wasn't "getting" it.

 

 

For a child who is not "getting it" I would really recommend Cuisenaire Rods combined base-10 "flats" (the latter serve as 100 values). There was a "mega-thread" on the topic of the Al Abacus vs C Rods, and I don't want to re-spark a "debate" (but you might want to search, or someone else may be able to provide a link).

 

It is no surprise I love Miquon for this age. But I also found great utility in using RS methods gleaned from the Activities for AL Abacus and "adapting" them to rods and blocks.

 

Every child is going to be different. My boy took to the rods in a big way, while the abacus had to be parent-directed. We also bypassed the RS emphasis on making 5s in favor of the Singapore style of making 10s.

 

But bottom line, the C Rods gave my son a very strong way of comparing relative values, making and solving equations, understanding wholes and parts (making "concrete" number bonds). And (very importantly in our situation) he could do it rather than my having to show him. The rods made him the "active" partner.

 

So you could try Miquon (and I think the Teachers books are hugely valuable, and fill in much of what is "missing" from Singapore in terms of teaching the laws off mathematics in an easy to understand yet "explicit" fashion).

 

Or, you could just adapt RS and think of your own activities to do with the rods. "Greater than/less than" and "how much greater than or less than" are very important ideas that I think are better understood with C Rods than diving straight into MEP (which uses inequalities that contain the "difference" in a subscript much like Singapore uses "number bonds."

 

MEP after understanding "how much greater" in concrete terms is so much easier than starting with somewhat of an abstraction that is prone to semantic confusion, which could lead to frustration.

 

It does not take that long to cement the ideas using Miquon-like techniques. One they "get it" MEP is great. But without that you could spend a lot of time trying to explain in words what the child could be directed to learn themselves with far less stress or frustration. When we make the methods really age appropriate clarity follows, and they are ready for the next level of abstraction or symbolic notation.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Bill

Edited October 19, 2010 by Spy Car

[Kuovonne]

There was a "mega-thread" on the topic of the Al Abacus vs C Rods, and I don't want to re-spark a "debate" (but you might want to search, or someone else may be able to provide a link).

 

 

Here's that thread: http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152125

 

I think that the C Rods would be a great manipulative to help promote understanding the relationships between numbers without counting.

[siloam]

He can repeat the words to "Yellow is the Sun" but it's clear that he's just parroting something he doesn't really understand. If I show him fingers, tally sticks, the abacus, a picture of 5 objects circled plus some leftover objects, etc. he insists on counting from the beginning rather than recognizing the quantities or even counting up from 5 (which would at least show a basic understanding). I don't think he's ready for RS A at this point. I'm fine shelving it until later but that means figuring out what to do with him in the interim.

 

A couple of things.

 

First, if you are not into the visualization thing, you can just move on and either let him count or use the abacus. RS is still strong program without the visualization, but stronger with (as any program would be).

 

Two, you can play the picture card memory games daily, and usually they will get it. Either let them count or limit it to cards under 5 and use more sets. Either way it is good practice. But I wouldn't camp out on it any longer.

 

Three, go ahead and move on. This is all covered again in B and you can worry about it then, or if you can't let it go do the one game a day thing. If it didn't click in B then you would have to make a decision to either do without the visualization piece or use a program like On Cloud Nine to teach it.

 

My ds still prefers to count base 10. We practice the teens daily with the warm ups, and he gets them. He just doesn't like them. I do make him repeat the correct name when doing school, but he has a stubborn streak a mile long. I figure he will eventually get board with it and move on.

 

Heather

[lionfamily1999]

He's little and he's finally enjoying math. I would not change a thing :D

[MissKNG]

There was a "mega-thread" on the topic of the Al Abacus vs C Rods, and I don't want to re-spark a "debate" (but you might want to search, or someone else may be able to provide a link).

 

 

 

Did you get "banned" because of that one too??:lol::lol:

[shinyhappypeople]

He's little and he's finally enjoying math. I would not change a thing :D

:iagree::iagree:

[Crimson Wife]

I tend to feel about C-rods the way Dr. Cotter does but it probably makes sense to pick up a set from our local Lakeshore to see if they would work as a manipulative for my DS. If the C-rods help him understand math, it doesn't really matter that I personally prefer the AL Abacus :)

 

MEP Reception is short and he really likes it so I'm now leaning towards letting him fly through it. Once he's finished, I'll see if he's ready for RS A.

[Brenda in FL]

 

I could call the charter's library to see if they have a copy of Saxon 1 that I could borrow. It often does have Saxon textbooks as that's a popular program & families are required to return non-consumable items. I previewed a copy of Saxon 5/4 for my oldest and didn't think it was a good "fit" for her but I haven't actually seen the lower levels of Saxon.

 

With the homeschool version you have a teachers manual and separate student worksheets. I do not know how the school editions are set up - but you would want to look at the equivalent of the teacher's manual as that's where the lessons are scripted for you. If non-consumables have to be returned - you may even be able to get some of the necessary manipulatives.