Are people who travel a lot more likely to be conservative voters?

[jld]

If so, why do you think this is?

 

If this has not been your experience, would you be willing to share why you think this is not true?

 

(This question is inspired by what has been posted on the lib/con friends thread.)

[Mrs Mungo]

That depends upon what you mean by conservative. In my experience people who travel a lot are less likely to fall on an extreme end of the political spectrum.

[Perry]

People who travel extensively are likely to be wealthy, or at least financially well off. Wealthy people are more likely to be conservative. So my guess is yes, they are more likely to be conservative, but traveling doesn't have much to do with it.

[jld]

MM, please feel free to define conservative. It would be interesting to hear!

[regentrude]

In my experience, frequent travel (and I do not mean jetting to business meetings, but really taking the time to be exposed to another culture) has the effect of broadening the mind, being exposed to different viewpoints, realizing that things can be done in different ways. This means they would be more open to try something new, to explore a new idea etc - which, by definition, is the opposite of being conservative (i.e. wanting to keep things the way they always were.

The term conservative in the political sense is not very strictly defined; people can be fiscal conservatives and social liberals at the same time.

 

Generally, travel puts things into perspective and people who travel extensively tend to not view the US the center of the universe and the measure of all things- which, in turn, will shape their political views.

[sparrow]

I didn't read the other thread, so this question leaves me a little :001_huh:.

 

In my experience, our friends who travel a lot are artists that are child free and fairly liberal.

[Mrs Mungo]

MM, please feel free to define conservative. It would be interesting to hear!

 

Hey, it's your thread, lol!!

 

The people I know who travel a lot are mostly military. That is a particular segment of society that is unique. They do not tend to be wealthy. They *do* tend to have conservative values. However, they also tend to be tolerant of diversity because of their experiences. The military has loads of interracial marriages, for example. That sort of makes them a mixed bag on a political level. pqr mentioned that in his experience they tend to be conservative. But, I would guess (correct me if I'm wrong, pqr) his associates are mostly high-ranking (officer or NCO) retirees working as ex-pats overseas. That's a different group than the military in general.

 

eta: The other problem is that people self-identify with different definitions in mind. I have a friend who considers himself a raging conservative. BUT, he's from NYC. He's really only a raging conservative in comparison, kwim? He would be a liberal in the South, he just doesn't realize it. ;) editing again to add more: His wife is an Air Force officer. Their kids are in daycare/Catholic kindergarten. They consider homeschooling weird, but make an exception for me. So, they don't fit with your thoughts of a conservative that you mentioned in the other thread.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[stripe]

Do you mean travel internationally?

 

Who has a passport, among Americans? A large number of them are immigrants and children of immigrants. Also senior citizens. I am not certain the political views of immigrants are monolithic.

[JeneralMom]

I traveled alot growing up and would still like to, but don't because of time/work/kids, but will once the kids are older, and I am very liberal. Maybe it is the type of traveling that I prefer (backpacking, trekking, etc.) but I would say almost everyone I have met leans on the more liberal side.

[LimitBreak]

This is just my opinion. I think it depends on where they are traveling to. If it's for a vacation in Hawaii I think that they will be likely conservative voters.

 

If it's for adventure like hiking in the mountains of Iran, maybe they will be more liberal voters.

 

I myself like to travel within the US because I don't have a lot of money. I am a lib.

 

A cousin of mine also likes to travel within the US, she is a con.

 

My sis likes to visit Europe, she is a lib.

 

Another cousin is a total con and loved to visit Hawaii, he now lives there.

[EmilyK]

In my experience, frequent travel (and I do not mean jetting to business meetings, but really taking the time to be exposed to another culture) has the effect of broadening the mind, being exposed to different viewpoints, realizing that things can be done in different ways. This means they would be more open to try something new, to explore a new idea etc - which, by definition, is the opposite of being conservative (i.e. wanting to keep things the way they always were.

The term conservative in the political sense is not very strictly defined; people can be fiscal conservatives and social liberals at the same time.

 

Generally, travel puts things into perspective and people who travel extensively tend to not view the US the center of the universe and the measure of all things- which, in turn, will shape their political views.

 

This has been my experience.

[Ester Maria]

Not necessarily... While travel may greatly affect people, most people who travel remain tourists to the places they travel to; their travels are rarely truly the kind of inter-cultural experiences you assume them to be. :) The sole fact that somebody spent a week here, a week there, saw a few monuments, tried some new food or small talked to some new people doesn't mean much. On the other hand, people who have actively lived in different societies for extended periods of time, been insiders in them, might have a very "affected" perspective of their own culture and how things "should" be done, which would manifest itself also in their political opinions.

 

I don't see such a strong link of political views - of any kind - to having been a "tourist" to many places as to age and experience, education, "social class" (in lack of better expression), specific subculture values, etc.

[lisabelle]

Yeah, I agree with others that the reason why one travels is more likely to indicate politics than frequency of travel.

 

If one travels for business, then it doesn't say much about politics. But a person who likes to explore the world is probably more likely to be liberal.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

My folks, Mom and Dad, are retired military and of course we traveled a lot growing up.

 

They have continued to travel extensively since retirement as they are both youngish, neither are even in their 60's yet, but are fairly well off financially.

 

They are a mixed bag. My Mom is very religious and conservative, my Dad is non-religious and liberal. Somehow they've made it work all these years. They're a great, funny couple. Hilarious, in fact.

 

The older my Mom gets, the more conservative she gets. The older my Dad gets, the hippie-er and more liberal he gets.

 

I guess I just feel it's individual. Nothing really MAKES a liberal or conservative.

[pqr]

Hey, it's your thread, lol!!

 

That sort of makes them (military)a mixed bag on a political level. pqr mentioned that in his experience they tend to be conservative. But, I would guess (correct me if I'm wrong, pqr) his associates are mostly high-ranking (officer or NCO) retirees working as ex-pats overseas. That's a different group than the military in general.

 

.

Staying clear of political judgement.

 

 

Actually the ex/military guys I was thinking of run the gammut. Yes some are senior officers/NCOs who have retired but a fair number were roughnecks working on oil rigs, who did a tour of duty because that is what is done, or who are teachers in schools and did a tour years back.

 

As to the military being a mixed bag, I honestly don't think so.

 

Poll after poll, 2 years ago, found that the military was no where near a mixed bag but overwhelmingly went in one direction.

 

I would be interested to see any or data that does not indicate this. Just as my experience may be judged by those I see and know and by my views the same could be said of others so I would be interested in data.

[DawnM]

What do you mean by traveling? Traveling for work or recreation, missions, or what?

 

I have traveled the world a few times over growing up as a missionary kid, and so have most of the missionaries I know, but they are all very conservative voters.

 

I tend to be moderate, but among my parent's generation, they are conservative, I would even call them extreme.

 

Dawn

[pqr]

In my experience, frequent travel (and I do not mean jetting to business meetings, but really taking the time to be exposed to another culture) has the effect of broadening the mind, being exposed to different viewpoints, realizing that things can be done in different ways. This means they would be more open to try something new, to explore a new idea etc - which, by definition, is the opposite of being conservative (i.e. wanting to keep things the way they always were.

The term conservative in the political sense is not very strictly defined; people can be fiscal conservatives and social liberals at the same time.

 

Generally, travel puts things into perspective and people who travel extensively tend to not view the US the center of the universe and the measure of all things- which, in turn, will shape their political views.

 

I would disagree, I too am not speaking of spending a week in Rome and a week in Paris, but rather people who live overseas, who know the culture, in my experience (with over 20 years living abroad) these people tend to be more conservative.

 

"Broadening the mind, being exposed to different viewpoints, realizing that things can be done in different ways" is all wonderful and valuable, but sometimes one learns that people in other nations do not do something well.

When one lives in a nation where the electricity does not work, where the crime rate makes Detroit look like Mayberry and the health system is put to shame by Andersonville the "things done differently" approach fails.

When one lives in a nation where women have fewer rights than men and my wife would be viewed as a piece of my property the "different viewpoints" aspect does not carry much water.

When friends pay 52% income tax before the 21% VAT (sales tax) and with other fees and taxes bring home less than 25% of their pay the "different ways" idea falls flat.

When freedom of speech is curtailed.... well the list goes on.

 

In one respect you are correct and perhaps I was not clear in my earlier post. People who live and work in places such as the UK and Australia are probably not greatly impacted in their political views.

 

It is those who live a little closer to the "ragged edge" of whom I was speaking.

Edited October 17, 2010 by pqr

[creekland]

We've met all sorts traveling. We travel, and we're conservative... our preference is for hiking, camping, and nature of all sorts. We mostly avoid cities due to my crowd allergy.

 

And again, we've met all sorts. I'm not sure I could say it leans one way or another. I think the travel gene is independent of politics.

[stripe]

Not necessarily... While travel may greatly affect people, most people who travel remain tourists to the places they travel to; their travels are rarely truly the kind of inter-cultural experiences you assume them to be. :)

As well as the fact that sometimes people may enjoy certain kinds of interactions, for example, taking advantage of child prostitutes or partners who are desperately poor and therefore willing to do anything. We had a handyman who began a crude rant about his travels to (place), where he has a woman waiting for him, before the topic was rapidly changed.

 

There are also a fair number of tourists who have absolutely no interest in the people of a place at all. For example, people who want to go see museums, animals, or other aspects of a location.

 

I agree with pqr that not all travel should require you to like the new place better than your home. I think Americans don't realize how good the infrastructure is. Oprah remarked on what a blessing she realized potable drinking water readily available from a tap is.

[Meriwether]

Yeah, I agree with others that the reason why one travels is more likely to indicate politics than frequency of travel.

 

If one travels for business, then it doesn't say much about politics. But a person who likes to explore the world is probably more likely to be liberal.

 

 

:001_huh: I don't consider myself to be particularly well-traveled. I've been on three continents (although that may be a loaded comment after the recent thread on what makes a continent). I spent a semester in one country. A summer in another. I am very familiar with half a dozen states and have visited a good twenty more. I would like to spend more time exploring the world.

 

Because of my studies, interests, and friendships, I have spent a lot of time with people of other cultures.

 

And politically speaking, I am about two steps to the right of Ronald Reagan.

 

ETA: I should mention that the most well-traveled member of our families is my BIL who is very conservative. The second, though, is my Dh's sister (a very warm and lovely woman) who is just as liberal as I am conservative. I just can't think what reasoning the above quote would be based on.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Meriwether

[Medieval Mom]

Well, I can only speak from my own experience. I left the USA quite liberal. In fact, I'm ashamed to say that my sentiments were quite typical of the small hometown where I grew up. Around there, people are fond of making stupid American jokes, such as "What do you call someone who speaks two languages?" "Bilingual." "What do you call someone who speaks one language?" "American." Har, har, har. :tongue_smilie: Or, when reading some horrible or stupid article in the news, people would often roll their eyes and exclaim, "ONLY IN AMERICA, would... fill in the blank".

 

Then I lived in a very socialist, European country for a year. I came home to kiss the asphalt on the O'Hare runway, and thank the lucky stars that I have the great privilege of being an American. (And I now know that people can be stupid, or wonderful, anywhere. ;) )

 

My dh's family all live in another VERY socialist country. Their views, and the views of many of their laws and countrymen, SCARE me.

 

So for me, travel has meant that I've become much more conservative and MUCH more patriotic. :patriot: I appreciate, most of all, our FREEDOM. Freedom of thought, of choice, of religion, of education, etc. I won't get on my soapbox here, but I resist change that takes away our basic choices and freedom. It's a road I just don't want to go down again. Politically, I'm moderate.

 

Now, whenever I hear someone tell an anti-American joke, or go on and on about how horrible it is here, I tell them (or WISH I could tell them) to go live somewhere else for a year-- not as an art student in Paris (where the excellent cheese and pastries may well lure you to stay forever! :) ), but as an average, working citizen *just* about anywhere else. (I say *just* about, because, quite frankly, there are some beautiful, wonderful countries out there I really wouldn't mind calling home. ;) )

Edited October 18, 2010 by Medieval Mom

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If so, why do you think this is?

 

If this has not been your experience, would you be willing to share why you think this is not true?

 

(This question is inspired by what has been posted on the lib/con friends thread.)

 

I think a great deal depends on where you are traveling to and what your responsibilities are while you're there. I had the experience of being a summer exchange student in high school, visiting the same country as a college student and then living there as an adult (married with children).

 

My experience was very different as an adult, where I was responsible for all of the daily duties of running a household, driving, traveling on public transportation with my kids in tow. Risks I would have taken as a teen were not things I would have done as a parent.

 

I also think that when you travel and see things that are different than your own country, you want to adopt what seems good and fix what seems wrong. As a young person, I tended to think of government answers to problems (ie, give these people an apartment) while as an adult I found myself wondering at our local church that was thrilled to collect pocket change in offerings for various projects where our old home church was known to collect millions in a weekend. [And while the size of one was bigger if you count actual attendance, the "members" of our overseas church were far larger if you base it on those who were "church members" by virtue of paying church tax, they were about the same on a socio-economic basis.]

 

I think that I had my eyes opened quite a bit in traveling. But that experience was both to broaden my horizons and to make me think that there are also great ills and evils in the world. I had the curious experience of becoming a defender of Reagan by hearing the caricatures of the US put out by my high school host brother. I no longer think that everything done by my native culture is automatically the right way. But neither do I think that other countries' ways are good or better simply by virtue of being different.

[Mrs Mungo]

Staying clear of political judgement.

 

 

Actually the ex/military guys I was thinking of run the gammut. Yes some are senior officers/NCOs who have retired but a fair number were roughnecks working on oil rigs, who did a tour of duty because that is what is done, or who are teachers in schools and did a tour years back.

 

As to the military being a mixed bag, I honestly don't think so.

 

According to YOUR OWN experience the military guys you know run the gamut, but you don't believe the military is a mixed bag? :confused:

 

Again, *as I already stated*, part of the problem is with how people self-identify according to varying definitions. The male Air Force spouse I mentioned in my post being a classic case. He and I are in total agreement when it comes to a lot of issues, but he considers himself a conservative. I consider myself to be a moderate. You have insisted that I'm a liberal in the past. We're not all working with the same definitions. That makes it tough.

 

Poll after poll, 2 years ago, found that the military was no where near a mixed bag but overwhelmingly went in one direction.

A poll of self-selected Army Times readers is not a scientific poll of the military, by any stretch.

 

I would be interested to see any or data that does not indicate this. Just as my experience may be judged by those I see and know and by my views the same could be said of others so I would be interested in data.

What sort of data would you like? Voting tends to fall about 65% Republican. Exit polls of the last presidential election showed that 54% of those who had ever served in the military voted for McCain. You can call that a majority, but it leaves a pretty good percentage who do not vote Republican. There are a LOT of former military serving in Congress who are Democrats.

 

According to wiki, there are a total of 121 members of the 111th Congress who are former military. I gleaned a short list of former military off another site, it is incomplete. I will try to complete it, anyone feel free to add to the list.

 

Alabama-Sessions, R

Arizona-McCain, R

Arizona-Giffords, D (she's a former military spouse, not a soldier herself)

California-Thompson, D

Connecticut-Dodd, D

Delaware-Carper, D

Florida-Rooney, R (he's former military, his wife is military)

Georgia-Isakson, R

Hawaii-Inouye, D

Hawaii-Akaka, D

Illinois-Hare, D

Indiana-Lugar, R

Iowa-Boswell, D

Iowa-Harkin, D

Kansas-Roberts, R

Massachusetts-Delahunt, D

Massachusetts-Kerry, D

Minnesota-Walz, D

Mississippi-Taylor, D

New Jersey-Lautenberg, D

New York-Rangel, D

North Carolina-Coble, R

Pennsylvania-Carney, D

Pennsylvania-Murphy, D

Pennsylvania-Sestak, D

Rhode Island-Reed, D

South Carolina-Graham, R

Texas-Paul, R

Virginia-Warner, D

Virginia-Webb, D

 

eta: Medieval Mom, not every liberal is a snotty college student who has disdain for the US.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Medieval Mom]

eta: Medieval Mom, not every liberal is a snotty college student who has disdain for the US.

 

I never said they were! :confused: Sorry I gave that impression. My hometown is NOT made up of snotty college students. Indeed, my hometown is, for the most part, made up of people who have only a high school degree. ;) And, ironically, most of my liberal-arts college friends (most of whom have lived extensively abroad) are... gasp.. conservatives! Meanwhile, many in my family who ARE liberal, are also rather patriotic.

 

I was only speaking to my own experience, not trying to pigeon-hole liberals as anti-American, nor conservatives as über-patriotic. Indeed, in the town in which I am NOW living, the majority are politically conservative with a rather strong disdain for America. :lol: On the other hand, my dh's family is extremely liberal and patriotic to the point extreme-nationalism (in a rather scary way). :eek:

Edited October 18, 2010 by Medieval Mom

[pqr]

According to YOUR OWN experience the military guys you know run the gamut, but you don't believe the military is a mixed bag? :confused:

 

.

 

You misread me they run the gamut in rank and service not so much in political views.

[pqr]

Voting tends to fall about 65% Republican. .

 

 

Pretty close to 2 to 1

[Mrs Mungo]

Pretty close to 2 to 1

 

Exit polls of the last presidential election showed that 54% of those who had ever served in the military voted for McCain.

 

That is almost half. And you TOTALLY ignored most of my post, including all the former military serving in Congress as Democrats.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[TravelingChris]

I took a sociological class in college on the military. Now this was the early 80's but the stats then where that AF was most conservative, Navy most liberal and Army in the middle. OVer all, I would say in our almost 24 years in the military (dh as AD, me as a spouse), if anything, it has become more conservative. But I think that is simply because the Democrats have moved far to the left in that same 24 year period.

 

Anyway, we travel a lot and we are conservatives. However, we aren't blind and ignorant conservatives so we definitely do see things that other countries do better than ours (we can start with parking garages). I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that conservatives travel more or that liberals travel more. I think better educated travel more and probably richer better educated travel the most.

[Mrs Mungo]

Anyway, we travel a lot and we are conservatives. However, we aren't blind and ignorant conservatives so we definitely do see things that other countries do better than ours (we can start with parking garages).

 

I would start with trains, but that is because of the INSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE traffic here. Seriously!

[Daisy]

I imagine it depends on whether the person traveling is a liberal or conservative. :lol:

 

Okay, I guess I think you won't find a correlation between frequency of travel and political beliefs.

 

Missionaries travel.

CEO's travel.

Actors travel.

College students travel.

Teens on mission's trips travel.

People on vacation travel.

Hippies travel.

Environmentalists travel.

Employees travel.

And heck, we KNOW politicians travel.

 

My cousin travels all over the world working doing computer security type stuff. Makes the big bucks. He's liberal.

 

My good friend travels all over training missionaries. He's a conservative.

 

Because of their political beliefs, they will filter their travel through different lenses. I don't think frequency of travel is an accurate indicator of what their political ideology is most likely to be.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Daisy

[Medieval Mom]

:iagree: Well put, Daisy! :)

[Mrs Mungo]

I imagine it depends on whether the person traveling is a liberal or conservative. :lol:

 

Okay, I guess I think you won't find a correlation between frequency of travel and political beliefs.

 

Missionaries travel.

CEO's travel.

Actors travel.

College students travel.

Teens on mission's trips travel.

People on vacation travel.

Hippies travel.

Environmentalists travel.

Employees travel.

And heck, we KNOW politicians travel.

 

My cousin travels all over the world working doing computer security type stuff. Makes the big bucks. He's liberal.

 

My good friend travels all over training missionaries. He's a conservative.

 

Because of their political beliefs, they will filter their travel through different lenses. I don't think frequency of travel is an accurate indicator of what their political ideology is most likely to be.

 

I tend to agree.

[pqr]

. And you TOTALLY ignored most of my post, including all the former military serving in Congress as Democrats.

 

 

I ignored because it is completely irrelevant. There are no protestants on the Supreme Court, using your logic that is because protestants don't care about law and order.

 

For good or bad. The military votes conservative, every poll has shown that. Simply because in one poll (the one you like, not the others that you discount including ones from military publications) on one election they voted a mere 54% conservative does not indicate much, it was the same election that other demographics also voted in heretofore unusual patterns.

[catz]

I imagine it depends on whether the person traveling is a liberal or conservative. :lol:

 

Okay, I guess I think you won't find a correlation between frequency of travel and political beliefs.

 

Missionaries travel.

CEO's travel.

Actors travel.

College students travel.

Teens on mission's trips travel.

People on vacation travel.

Hippies travel.

Environmentalists travel.

Employees travel.

And heck, we KNOW politicians travel.

 

My cousin travels all over the world working doing computer security type stuff. Makes the big bucks. He's liberal.

 

My good friend travels all over training missionaries. He's a conservative.

 

Because of their political beliefs, they will filter their travel through different lenses. I don't think frequency of travel is an accurate indicator of what their political ideology is most likely to be.

 

Totally agree Daisy! I know lots of avid world travelers, and most are liberal. But I'm in a liberal area and most of the people I know lean liberal. I imagine more missionaries and business travelers might be more conservative? Who knows.

 

I've traveled world over and I'm moderately liberal.

[PiCO]

But a person who likes to explore the world is probably more likely to be liberal.

 

Huh?

[KingM]

I have the odd sensation of being a flaming liberal in some circles (e.g. the WTM board) and a conservative in others. One of those places I feel like a heartless conservative is here in Vermont, where my neighbors want to shut down all power sources in the state and run our homes and cars on sunshine and wishful thinking.

 

Another place is when I am out of the country and run into expats. Maybe it's just my experience, but it seems the ratio of liberals to conservatives among the independent travelers I meet is about 3:1.

[ourjourneys]

I think traveling makes one more educated. I do not know how one can actually vote from their own opinion if they do not know what the real issues are in the world. Here in America I see many people just watching their choice of news station and feeling that it is 100% true and they are persuaded by what they see and hear.

I feel like traveling makes one more liberal overall, but that is not necessarily always the case (missionaries, military, etc). I think if one is traveling to explore the cultures which is how we travel then they are going to learn more about the world and it will make a difference in their lives politically because they will be more educated about the world and they will learn about themselves by being in different settings. However, if one is going to tourist resorts and hot vacation spots then they are really not leaving home. Just going to a fancy hotel in the weather of the other country. Personally, I see that as a waste :confused: when there are so many beautiful countries, lands and people to meet! So much to learn!!:auto:

[Laura Corin]

I think it depends why and how you travel. I have met expatriates for whom travel narrowed the mind: the more they saw, the more they were reinforced in their beliefs that their own country and opinions were the only correct ones. They were often overseas for reasons of career or money, rather than because they actually wanted to live abroad. Others travel with an open mind and a spirit of adventure, and tend to become more appreciative of the views and issues of others.

 

Laura

[Meriwether]

I think traveling makes one more educated. I do not know how one can actually vote from their own opinion if they do not know what the real issues are in the world. Here in America I see many people just watching their choice of news station and feeling that it is 100% true and they are persuaded by what they see and hear.

I feel like traveling makes one more liberal overall, but that is not necessarily always the case (missionaries, military, etc). I think if one is traveling to explore the cultures which is how we travel then they are going to learn more about the world and it will make a difference in their lives politically because they will be more educated about the world and they will learn about themselves by being in different settings. However, if one is going to tourist resorts and hot vacation spots then they are really not leaving home. Just going to a fancy hotel in the weather of the other country. Personally, I see that as a waste :confused: when there are so many beautiful countries, lands and people to meet! So much to learn!!:auto:

 

So, based on your assumption that travel makes one more liberal and your belief that one can't vote responsibly until they are well-traveled, I guess only liberals whose travels have educated them should have voting rights? I guess you didn't say others couldn't vote - they just shouldn't vote based on their own opinion. How...tolerant.

 

Meriwether - who knows many world travelers, both conservative and liberal, including one man who spent years in Ukraine as both a missionary and a businessman (but of course his observations and experiences did not educate him).

[Meriwether]

I think it depends why and how you travel. I have met expatriates for whom travel narrowed the mind: the more they saw, the more they were reinforced in their beliefs that their own country and opinions were the only correct ones. They were often overseas for reasons of career or money, rather than because they actually wanted to live abroad. Others travel with an open mind and a spirit of adventure, and tend to become more appreciative of the views and issues of others.

 

Laura

 

 

People often use the words narrow-minded and open-minded to describe conservative and liberal. I think it is a bit disingenuous. A business man might become more "narrow-minded" and appreciate his home country more because of his experiences, and a person who is living abroad because they "actually wanted to" would, I hope, appreciate the culture they are living in.

 

My BIL managed a large plant overseas. His company was willing to pay the 20 million dollars in severance fees to walk away when the labor laws made it too difficult to do business in that country. Nobody ever quits a job in that country, they just don't show up for work. The company either has to keep paying them a salary or pay them a "huge" severance fee (several years worth of salary). My BIL, who liked the people and culture of this country, very definitely prefers to do business in the U.S.A. He had a different experence in his 3 and 1/2 years in this country than many visitors. To say that his experience "narrowed" his mind isn't quite fair.

[Laura Corin]

Your BIL learned to like another country's people, but disagreed with some parts of its business culture. That's not narrow-mindedness, just critical thinking.

 

I was thinking about a woman whom I knew in Taiwan, who had followed her husband unwillingly when he was appointed to lead the Taiwan branch of a French bank. She spent her whole time grouching about everything that was not like France. She didn't open her eyes to what was good about where she was living. She was conservative in her thinking, and living overseas only reinforced that.

 

Laura

[smrtmama]

In my experience, frequent travel (and I do not mean jetting to business meetings, but really taking the time to be exposed to another culture) has the effect of broadening the mind, being exposed to different viewpoints, realizing that things can be done in different ways. This means they would be more open to try something new, to explore a new idea etc - which, by definition, is the opposite of being conservative (i.e. wanting to keep things the way they always were.

The term conservative in the political sense is not very strictly defined; people can be fiscal conservatives and social liberals at the same time.

 

Generally, travel puts things into perspective and people who travel extensively tend to not view the US the center of the universe and the measure of all things- which, in turn, will shape their political views.

 

 

This.

[creekland]

I still don't think the two are necessarily connected. I grew up staunchly democrat and liberal (parents were the same). Yes, I suppose my travels have affected my views - changing them to be far more conservative - but I, personally, think experiencing life outside academia has done far more to change my views.

 

I could happily live in many countries, but there are several I wouldn't want to own a business in.

 

Regardless of views, traveling and seeing the great (for us, natural) sights this planet has to offer is one of the absolute best things in life. And while we're there (usually camping)... we still meet all sorts of people - all beliefs. Thinking about it, the younger someone is the more liberal they tend to be. The older they are the more conservative they tend to be. (Generalization - not 100%). And since I'm thinking while typing... I have to admit when I was younger I was liberal too... for whatever that is worth. For me, life changed my views, not traveling. There are very few areas of this planet that I don't love, but I've always been that way.

[mcconnellboys]

Wealthy people are more likely to be conservative? Maybe we're using different definitions of "wealthy", but the mega-wealthy folks I know are all very liberal.

 

The more wealthy they are, the more removed from the realities of the majority of others they seem (to me) to be.

 

They may travel as widely as a lot of comfortable, upper-middle class folks, but they again tend to be removed from the mainstream, staying at ultra-exclusive locations and waited on by virtual servants (i.e., wait staff) who attend to their every need....

 

So I would agree that the middle or upper middle class may be more conservative, but the *truly* wealthy tend to be liberal in my experience....

[creekland]

Wealthy people are more likely to be conservative? Maybe we're using different definitions of "wealthy", but the mega-wealthy folks I know are all very liberal.

 

The more wealthy they are, the more removed from the realities of the majority of others they seem (to me) to be.

 

They may travel as widely as a lot of comfortable, upper-middle class folks, but they again tend to be removed from the mainstream, staying at ultra-exclusive locations and waited on by virtual servants (i.e., wait staff) who attend to their every need....

 

So I would agree that the middle or upper middle class may be more conservative, but the *truly* wealthy tend to be liberal in my experience....

 

I haven't seen this at all. All the wealthy folks I know, except one, are definitely conservative on most issues. BUT, I'll say all the wealthy folks I know (except the one) got there via business and not inheritance or lottery or Hollywood or anything. That probably makes a difference. It's being in business that has changed my views the most - not travel - but we are far from wealthy. I've seen about half a dozen "coverts" in my own circle due to being in business for themselves. They have always converted liberal to conservative. The rest I don't know about - whether they were always conservative or not. These topics don't come up all the time, but they certainly have the past couple of years. :tongue_smilie:

Edited October 19, 2010 by creekland

[TravelingChris]

I am very well educated, well traveled, and also conservative. As I already stated, I certainly do think there are good things about most places. (I reserve the right to deny that there is anything good in North Korea:001_huh:). Having lived abroad for three years I can say there were many great things there. Bakeries, chocolate, much lower flower costs and greater variety, parking lots, trains (as Mrs. Mungo said), restaurants, amusement parks, playgrounds, liability laws, and I could go on and on. I can also say a long list of great things about everywhere I have lived. I am still a conservative and by the way, although I always was in favor of tort reform, first hand experience with a system that had the elements that I want showed me how much our system costs us. I could see the difference in costs of various products. Also, Belgium has true school choice which is another typically conservative position. Also, they have everyone paying something for medical care each time they use it. So although it is much more liberal than the US in many respects, it is also more conservative in a number too.

[mcconnellboys]

Ahhhh, now I see. Yes, I know many business owners who are more conservative. I'm thinking more of the mega wealthy whose lives are somewhat divorced from reality. I'm thinking, for instance, of my husband's cousin who married a very wealthy doctor and who spends an amount equal to a new car every year on her wardrobe.....

[Mrs Mungo]

I ignored because it is completely irrelevant.

 

Let me get this straight. The point we are debating is whether the military is strictly conservative or whether it is a mixed bag, correct? I post a list of Democrats *in Congress* with military service and that is somehow irrelevant? It is relevant because it shows that *many* people with military service *do* align themselves with the Democratic party.

 

There are no protestants on the Supreme Court, using your logic that is because protestants don't care about law and order.

You are going to have to explain how that is analogous. That makes zero sense to me.

 

For good or bad. The military votes conservative, every poll has shown that. Simply because in one poll (the one you like, not the others that you discount including ones from military publications) on one election they voted a mere 54% conservative does not indicate much, it was the same election that other demographics also voted in heretofore unusual patterns.

The Army Times poll is not a proper poll of the military. It isn't. It's a poll of self-selected Army Times readers. That's like saying a poll by Esquire proves some point about what *all* men think because it's a magazine aimed at men.

 

You have yet to link a poll or article *of any kind* in this thread, much less one that shows the military *overwhelming* votes Republican vs. it being a mixed bag. Do you have a poll that shows *not* that the military community has conservative values (which it does, including me), but that they *overwhelmingly* vote Republican, in other words greater than say...70%? I gave polls and other evidence that showed it was a mixed bag. Can you provide evidence for your side or you just gonna keep talking? Put your money where your mouth is, pqr.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Your BIL learned to like another country's people, but disagreed with some parts of its business culture. That's not narrow-mindedness, just critical thinking.

 

I was thinking about a woman whom I knew in Taiwan, who had followed her husband unwillingly when he was appointed to lead the Taiwan branch of a French bank. She spent her whole time grouching about everything that was not like France. She didn't open her eyes to what was good about where she was living. She was conservative in her thinking, and living overseas only reinforced that.

 

Laura

 

I think there are some people who just don't travel well. I remember meeting a woman who had been in Hawaii for about six weeks. We had only been on island about 4 months. I asked her how she liked it and she went on a tirade about how horrible it was and how she couldn't wait to get home and never leave again. (And this from someone living in middle of the road but spacious for Hawaii housing, so it wasn't like she was living in a slum or surrounded by meth heads.)

 

Similarly, I've met Europeans who spent time in the US and loved the differentness of it and others who rued every moment they were in the US.

 

I think that traveling exposes you to a lot that you might not otherwise encounter. Some good and some bad. But I also think that we often tend to want to correct the ills that we see with the political/social bent that we already have. So someone who sees high unemployment might think of the need for more government programs or more free markets depending on their viewpoint. Someone seeing poverty might be inspired to petition the government for aid or to start a non profit or to sponsor a local missionary.

 

I think the same goes for what we see that we think is good. We will use our pre-existing viewpoint to try to bring it home.

[jld]

I agree, Sebastian. The economic inequality in India is what disturbs me the most about that country; it's actually the whole problem, I think. The rich feel completely entitled to their wealth, and the Hindu religion seems to support that. It wasn't long ago in the West when kings had all wealth and power, supported by religion, and the common person hardly had any way to fight that oppression.