Roxy Roller Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 I am frustrated. I have tried many programs, but I can't seem to find one that fits me, as a teacher. I want to teach, not have my child watch a DVD(tried EIW). I want a program that teaches great sentences, as well as, paragraphs, moving into essays. We are doing WS3, but I feel it is moving too slowly - can I speed it up? Does it get better? I would really like to be able to use my history and lit to make up my own assignments, but with 5 kids in the grammar stage, I just don't have time. I have listened to SWB's lectures for grammar and logic and I love them, but feel that I need a little more hand-holding. Is there a program out there for me? Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Hey Roxanne (it's Hillary H from the world of scrapbooking ;) Have you tried WWE? We use it in conjunction with WS3 and we enjoy it. ETA: i see from your siggie that you already use WWE--do you not like it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 Wow, Hillary...great to 'see' you! You have moved to Florida? What a change from NYC! Is your husband able to work from there? I thought his job was pretty specialized. Are you still scrapping? I haven't touched a thing since last spring, I stepped down from my design teams, we moved and all of my things are still packed. I will go back to it someday, but right now I am pretty consumed with homeschooling. I am using WWE. I guess I am looking for something that is probably non-existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaReads Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Have you looked into the Michael Clay Thompson materials? I haven't used them yet but I've heard great things. http://www.rfwp.com/series91.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 I used Writing Strands, and also used SWB's techniques as well as some Writer's Jungle. Writing Strands really gets better and better, IMO. If you start with Book 3, and alternate it with subject area writing, you can suggest improvements in subject area writing based on recent WS progress. WS is a more subtle program that depends more on the teacher than, for instance, IEW does. I like it very much because it covers different types of writing, alternating between them in a way that is pretty engaging. You don't pick one aspect of writing and beat it to death like you do in some other programs. Also, it leaves enough room for some creativity on the part of the students in their choices of assignment topics, so you can give them that freedom or you can tilt the topics toward subject-area work pretty easily. If you want a very good approach to the basics that has more handholding but is still not video-driven, Rod and Staff writing lessons are like that. The TE's are very reasonably priced and included scripted writing as well as grammar lessons. They also include a lot of review. I noticed that the writing in RS really doesn't take off until the 4th or 5th grade book. If, like many of us, you use RS a year behind, the writing instruction will not be up to grade level, even though the grammar instruction will still be outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 It is really hard to find a writing program, because they ALL STINK!! I have been buying and trying writing programs for 16 years!!! THEY ALL STINK!!! But, parts of them are ok.... Listening to SWB's writing mp3's confirmed my suspicions.... Understanding what I was trying to accomplish...and a simple, thought out, reasonable way to achieve that result made me see the real shortcomings of "real" writing programs. We are not all going to become professional writers, and not all of us are going to enjoy "creative" writing but, we all have to be able to communicate with words. We need to communicate clearly, effectively using correct grammar and syntax. We all need to be able to write persuasively. We want our children to be able to write effective college level papers. Knowing the ages and stages, what to expect and what to look for. What the next step is etc. helped me tremendously in planning and gave me the tools to implement writing across the curricula in a meaningful way. The MP3's also solidified my own ideas and gave me the confidence to implement them and toss other styles which I thought were cumbersome and unnecessary. HTH Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Jo Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 It is really hard to find a writing program, because they ALL STINK!! I have been buying and trying writing programs for 16 years!!! THEY ALL STINK!!! But, parts of them are ok.... Listening to SWB's writing mp3's confirmed my suspicions.... Understanding what I was trying to accomplish...and a simple, thought out, reasonable way to achieve that result made me see the real shortcomings of "real" writing programs. We are not all going to become professional writers, and not all of us are going to enjoy "creative" writing but, we all have to be able to communicate with words. We need to communicate clearly, effectively using correct grammar and syntax. We all need to be able to write persuasively. We want our children to be able to write effective college level papers. Knowing the ages and stages, what to expect and what to look for. What the next step is etc. helped me tremendously in planning and gave me the tools to implement writing across the curricula in a meaningful way. The MP3's also solidified my own ideas and gave me the confidence to implement them and toss other styles which I thought were cumbersome and unnecessary. HTH Faithe Yes, this....:iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Bravewriter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 Thank you for all of the insight! I am using R&S English a year behind, for the grammar instruction. I feel that the writing is too spread out. Maybe I need to look at it again. I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that finding a writing program that fits your homeschool (you, as well as, your kids) is hard. I know there are good ones out there, or parts of ones that are good. I just wish I didn't have to go searching and spending so much money to try to find the elusive one that fits us. I have looked at MCT and Bravewriter, but I have to be honest, I was a little confused by both. My kids and I really like R&S for grammar, so I will not be looking for grammar instruction, just writing. I will look at them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 ETA: i see from your siggie that you already use WWE--do you not like it? I really like WWE, we are currently using Levels 1, 2 and 3. I love the copywork, narration and dictation all laid out for me. I feel that my 6th grader needs more. I am using WS3, with her this year, because that is where I was told an older student needs to start. It is moving slowly. Maybe I need to just stick it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Wow, Hillary...great to 'see' you! You have moved to Florida? What a change from NYC! Is your husband able to work from there? I thought his job was pretty specialized. Are you still scrapping? I haven't touched a thing since last spring, I stepped down from my design teams, we moved and all of my things are still packed. I will go back to it someday, but right now I am pretty consumed with homeschooling. I am using WWE. I guess I am looking for something that is probably non-existent. Hey there! I can't believe you remember my dh's job LOL. Yes it IS specialized, but people send him work here in Florida (he runs his own business) so it's working out. Plus the cost of living here in Florida is MUCH less than Manhattan, so that's nice ;) Re scrapping--gosh, I've done so little in the last couple of years. I was designing for scrapbookgraphics.com and dabbling in digital, but I stopped doing that last March. I quit all my DTs also, and didn't even expend much energy to promote my book :leaving:. I just felt like the industry was changing so much, and I guess I lost my mojo somewhere. I did recently have a dream about scrapping (remember when that used to happen regularly LOL?) and I think I am going to start up again. I sold a lot of my stash but still have enough for some simple pages, and my boys love scrapbooking, so we'll probably do it together. Hey, it's Art! I think you could probably move to WS4 with your older. We whip through WS3 even though the author says not to move ahead too quickly--it's just too slow sometimes. Combine it with WWE, though, and I think it's reasonably ok. I was looking through the Rainbow Resource Catalog yesterday (got the paper brick in the mail) and I think it's an easier way to compare different writing curriculum than looking at their online site. The catalog is free, so it's worth having mailed to you just to see. Some that popped out to me were BraveWriter and Jump In (Jump out? Jump up? :tongue_smilie:) and I think if you look at the catalog and narrow it down to 2-3 that look interesting, you could get some opinions here. Right now, I think IEW looks interesting for the younger grades, and next year I may try it out. Good luck--are you still on 2peas at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 I guess I lost my mojo somewhere. I can relate! I think I hit burnout with all of the assignments I was doing. I occasionally lurk on The Pub, but I haven't posted in over a year or so. I haven't let my DD take the breaks that are suggested in WS3. Maybe for right now, we will breeze through it and move on to 4. I have been perusing my Rainbow Resources catalog as well, and nothing is really jumping out at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Writing is complex, and there are many good programs that bring different ideas to the table. We used Bravewriter for several years with our oldest son, and Julie helped me finally understand how to mentor writing. Before Julie, I could only see the lack of commas, weak verbs, lack of noun/verb agreement, etc. I did not know how to be a partner in the writing process. Julie jumpstarted writing in our house -- for me and our children. After that, we used IEW for several years because it fit the needs of one of our children, and we learned from IEW as well. Last year we used Lost Tools of Writing Level 1 with dd, and it was a tremendous year. LTW gave us tools for inventing ideas, and we will review it later this year. At the moment, we are working through MCT Level 2 which focuses on paragraph skills. I was intriqued by MCT and haven't regretted using it because dd is learning new skills. MCT breathes life into language work. Sometimes I think that it's not so hard finding a writing program, but rather sticking with one. The issue is staying with a program long enough to mine the gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txhomemom Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 I am having the same problem finding the perfect writing program. There are a few I have been researching, but have not pulled the trigger on yet. I REALLY do not want to waste more money on another program unless I know it is nearly 100% what I want. Anyway, here is a list of a few you may want to consider: http://www.createbetterwriters.com/The_Complete_Writing_Pro.html http://rdlco.com/products.php Put That In Writing http://barrettsbookshelf.com/ Meaningful Composition http://www.tfths.com/comp.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Well we use Classical Writing. I can't tell you how much of a difference it has made over the years developing my oldest into not just an excellent writer, but and excellent thinker. IMHO too may writing programs spend an excess of time on the structure of writing and give very little attention to the content of the writing. And by content I really don't mean can they write a pretty sentence (although that is part of it early on). But when they get to jr and sr high (as well as college) they need to write effective, well-composed arguments. They need to know how to present a well-supported position. CW focuses on teaching them what makes up an effective argument and what kind of information makes the essay work. Structure is easy. The hard part is content. It incorporates logic and rhetoric studies to aid in this process. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaney Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I am glad to here that WS gets better. I am using it with DD for 5th grade and while it is very directed I still struggle to get her to follow and understand the directions while she gets her thoughts together. I guess if I need to handhold for awhile that isn't bad. I just don't think that 5-6 sentences in a paragraph is too much to ask! We are also using WWE and she likes that-especially the copywork:tongue_smilie: Meaningful composition does look interesting though but I MUST STOP BUYING CURRICULUM!!!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 Well we use Classical Writing. I can't tell you how much of a difference it has made over the years developing my oldest into not just an excellent writer, but and excellent thinker. IMHO too may writing programs spend an excess of time on the structure of writing and give very little attention to the content of the writing. And by content I really don't mean can they write a pretty sentence (although that is part of it early on). But when they get to jr and sr high (as well as college) they need to write effective, well-composed arguments. They need to know how to present a well-supported position. CW focuses on teaching them what makes up an effective argument and what kind of information makes the essay work. Structure is easy. The hard part is content. It incorporates logic and rhetoric studies to aid in this process. Heather Heather...I have looked at Classical Writing, but I have to admit it intimidates me. I received a mediocre PS education and I am learning alongside my children. Could my DD11 do the Aesop's and Homer for the Older Beginner or would it be too much? She is probably reading at a 5th grade level. I need to teach the structure, but I agree that the structure is meaningless if the content is abysmal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsjamiesouth Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I am frustrated. I have tried many programs, but I can't seem to find one that fits me, as a teacher. I want to teach, not have my child watch a DVD(tried EIW). I want a program that teaches great sentences, as well as, paragraphs, moving into essays. We are doing WS3, but I feel it is moving too slowly - can I speed it up? Does it get better? I would really like to be able to use my history and lit to make up my own assignments, but with 5 kids in the grammar stage, I just don't have time. I have listened to SWB's lectures for grammar and logic and I love them, but feel that I need a little more hand-holding. Is there a program out there for me? Anyone? THis: http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?series=2561M I found this last year and I loved it. We did Book A and Level 1. What I liked most was that it really taught you how to write a sentence, it taught you how to write and recognize a Topic Sentence, and it taught you all the other parts to a paragraph. There is also some grammar in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATTIPEANUT Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Take a look at Razzle Dazzle. I saw them at a convention in the spring. The approach is similar to IEW but does not have the dvds and such to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Last year we used Lost Tools of Writing Level 1 with dd, and it was a tremendous year. LTW gave us tools for inventing ideas, and we will review it later this year. At the moment, we are working through MCT Level 2 which focuses on paragraph skills. I was intriqued by MCT and haven't regretted using it because dd is learning new skills. MCT breathes life into language work. Sometimes I think that it's not so hard finding a writing program, but rather sticking with one. The issue is staying with a program long enough to mine the gold. 1TOGO - Could you please expound upon using LToW in a separate thread? I'm particularly interested in how it might mesh with MCT. Did you use LToW before MCT Town level? Capt_Uhura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) Well we use Classical Writing. I can't tell you how much of a difference it has made over the years developing my oldest into not just an excellent writer, but and excellent thinker. IMHO too may writing programs spend an excess of time on the structure of writing and give very little attention to the content of the writing. And by content I really don't mean can they write a pretty sentence (although that is part of it early on). But when they get to jr and sr high (as well as college) they need to write effective, well-composed arguments. They need to know how to present a well-supported position. CW focuses on teaching them what makes up an effective argument and what kind of information makes the essay work. Structure is easy. The hard part is content. It incorporates logic and rhetoric studies to aid in this process. Heather This is another one I've been looking at. What ages is it geared towards? ETA: okay, found the age range on Rainbow, but is there somewhere where Ii can see more sample pages? I am very interested in this for my 8 year old, as WS3 is almost done (and I'm not 100% in love with it) Edited October 17, 2010 by Halcyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leann_in_tx Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 To view samples for classical writing, you can go to www.classicalwriting.com, and click on the book you are interested in on the sidebar. If you scroll down, there's a preview option. The books are printed-on-demand through Lulu. OP, you mentioned you wanted something that would help would incorporate history - I know IEW sells books that are theme based, many of them on different historical time periods. I think they reccommend using them with the videos, but I've read reviews by people who don't and find the writing instruction in the books to be sufficient, particularly if you are already familiar with IEW. There are some other subjects besides history as well. Just another option to consider. http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/catalog/theme-based-writing-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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