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SOTW 1 & 2. The huge lack of Biblical history and the tone of what was written was horrible. It would have been better just to leave it out completely. Absolutely no balance between God and gods. Engaging as a storybook, but not much for a balanced view of history.

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SOTW 1 & 2. The huge lack of Biblical history and the tone of what was written was horrible. It would have been better just to leave it out completely. Absolutely no balance between God and gods. Engaging as a storybook, but not much for a balanced view of history.

 

That's rather a harsh way to express your opinion of Susan Wise Bauer's work right here in her living room, here in this forum she has provided for us all for free. Just my two cents.

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That's rather a harsh way to express your opinion of Susan Wise Bauer's work right here in her living room, here in this forum she has provided for us all for free. Just my two cents.

 

Susan is very aware of the fact that not everyone loves her work. She's also aware that there's a wide variety of perspectives where history is concerned. I think she's gracious to allow all of us to participate in these forums, anyway, regardless of those differences. :) In fact, these boards existed long before Susan wrote any history books.

 

Personally, I don't care for SOTW *by itself*, either, for the reasons Alilac mentioned. However, used in the context of something else with a stronger biblical worldview (we use MFW, but there are others that incorporate SOTW as well), I think it's fine. And so far, Peace Hill Press doesn't have a problem selling SOTW to those other curriculum providers with a different perspective. ;)

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Donna, I know of Susan's generosity. And only a child would need to be told that authors are aware of their critics. I was merely commenting on the harsh tone.

 

Only a child? I simply assumed perhaps you weren't aware since you took Alilac's post so personally and seemed shock by it. I mean, it's not like that was the first time it's come up in conversations here. Honestly, I didn't think her tone was harsh at all. She was simply responding to the same question that the rest of us have.... stating facts as to why she doesn't care for it. I didn't hear her personally attacking the author at all. :confused1:

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Up until a few months ago I would have said Winning with Writing. I bought 4 different levels for each of my kids, and I quit using them after a few weeks. The kids writing regressed, and it was NOT teaching them the style or quality of writing that I wanted them to achieve.

 

But then I had a break in sanity around October and purchased Switched on Schoolhouse in a couple of subjects for my oldest. He is very ADD and was really struggling with Tapestry of Grace that the rest of the kids were using. I thought I could just use SOS for history and English because he handles computer-based things well. BIG MISTAKE! He handled the computer part just fine, but there was ZERO recall. I hated it, he didn't like it, and after about 2 months (and some $$), I decided to just have him go back to TOG and do it on a modified level for him. Best correction the the worst (homeschooling) mistake I've ever made.

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Chiming in on the SOTW comments:

 

The Teacher Handbooks for Core Knowledge -- a SECULAR, multi-cultural program used in many schools -- recommend SOTW as a teacher resource.

 

Anything that teaches the Exodus as fact, without qualification, is not secular. Can SOTW be used in a secular homeschool, with the parent adding additional context? Absolutely, and we use it.

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Anything that teaches the Exodus as fact, without qualification, is not secular. Can SOTW be used in a secular homeschool, with the parent adding additional context? Absolutely, and we use it.

 

When I first looked at a copy of SOTW in a local B&N, I thought it was something that I would never use -- too many Bible stories. So, I went looking for a secular, easy-to-use, all in one history for early elementary. Well, SOTW was the best thing out there, IMO. We ended up using Core Knowledge, because it focussed on main ideas, without as much detail as SOTW -- that was a better fit for my dc. But we used the Jim Weiss tapes, some reading from the text, and lots of the activities. Looking back, I wish I had used SOTW more for SWB type narration at some point -- my dc were not ready for that in 1st grade, but it might have helped comprehension later.

 

BTW, we still listen to the SOTW tapes -- it is a great supplement for ds's public school course in ancient history -- much livelier and more enjoyable that the rather dry text he is using in school!

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This thread is hilarious - I used some of the books here when I was being homeschooled!

 

BJU Math - the thing about it, I think, is that it is really designed to be used in a classroom with a teacher lecturing the lesson. It's pretty hopeless for independent learning. I remember getting completely stuck at long division. When I asked my mom to teach it to me we pulled out a stack of blank pages and just started writing on those. I went through some of my old textbooks a few years ago (my mom, for some reason, had put them in a box in the garage) and noticed that all the BJU Math books had writing all over the pages.

 

I did Saxon Math for Pre-Algebra, and I guess it went better, I learned Algebra OK. But I remember it being completely uninteresting.

 

Writing Strands - I remember my mom bought that, but I don't think we ever used it. I guess my mom thought it was pretty bad.

 

I do fondly remember a spelling book I had. How to Spell Cat or something. Maybe it was A Beka? Gosh, some of the stuff I used probably isn't even in print anymore...

 

Teach Your Child to Read in a Hundred Easy Lessons - this is really funny. I was at a bookstore last year and came across this book and it sparked my childhood memory of being taught to read from it. Since my son was clearly showing a desire to read then, I bought it and used it. I found it easy to use, and the script made it possible for my husband and I to switch off doing lessons with him. DS learned how to read with it, but since he is a quick learner I started just skipping some of the "slow" and "fast" parts. We only got up to about lesson 35 or so with him, and when I talked to my mom about using it she mentioned that I only did "about half" of the book as well. Moral of the story? I found it helpful in introducing the concept of phonics and reading. And son liked the stories. A year later and he's reading on the second grade level, so, I think the book is worthwhile.

 

I'm looking into homeschooling DS next year, and when I first started browsing the internet I came across a website that complained about how there was the popular Christian history textbook which didn't talk about Adam and Eve as the "earliest humans" but some nomadic girl instead. My response was, "zomg! I wants it!" So then I found SOTW, hurray! To all the critics: When I took World Civ I at a large secular university a part of the assigned reading was a big chunk of Genesis and Exodus. The curriculum treated it as a "primary source" along with The Epic of Gilgamesh and Plato's Republic. I haven't read SOTW entirely, but it looks like the balance is about right, imo. If you want your kid to know the Bible then you can read the Bible through. That's what my mom did, alternating reading verses aloud, King James Version, starting with Genesis 1:1 (lol). The Bible should be read as it's own entity (however you want to do that). Why I am saying that isn't something I've found out how to say in just a few sentences, but I hold two graduate degrees in theology (from Christian schools), and this is what I've decided.

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The absolute worst for us was Abeka Math 4. My daughter did a dance and tore up her notebook at the end of the year. It took a solid 12 months to get her to tolerate math again...ugh.

 

Never liked SOTW as much as everyone else. My children never seemed to retain any of the info.

 

Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons was a bust for us.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Slow & Steady was great for year 1 for my oldest daughter, but she was super precocious (which I didn't really realize at the time, so I thought the book was perfect). My second had a speech delay and so many of the ones that year involve having full conversations with the child... totally impossible expectations for most kids that age. Then by the time you're on year three, and a lot of the developmental stuff evens out, it's half the year year spent learning the alphabet! My kids already knew the alphabet at that point, thanks to all the hours I neglected them in front of Leapfrog games while I cleaned and cooked and did whatever else I need to do. There's so much fun stuff you can do with kids that age, and devoting so much time to the letters was deadly.

 

So, basically, I liked it at the beginning for my oldest, and then quickly realized how much I hated it.

 

ETA: even worse, the alphabet is year 4! I realize that the book was written at a different time, when there wasn't so much emphasis on early literacy, but stilll... I'm sure I knew my alphabet by age 4 thanks to Sesame Street!

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I love the 1st edition of TWTM. I don't like to USE most of the later PHP books; they just don't suit MY needs as a self-educator or tutor. I think I can be harsh sometimes in my reviews. Sometimes I forget there is an person behind the product I am discussing. It's just the product I'm talking about at the moment, though. I don't like sushi either. At all! :ack2: Sometimes I'm not at careful as I should be in my reviews of sushi. :001_unsure:

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The worst ones for us:

 

Phonics Pathways (child burst into tears every time she saw the book)

Teaching your child to read in 100 easy lessons (ditto---we ended up very happy with Explode the Code and Dick and Jane books)

Miquon Math (simply could not wrap my brain around it, even as a "math/science person," ended up giving it away)

MCT Town level (I really wanted to like these, but couldn't make it work for us)

Singapore math (struggled for *years* to make this work well to no avail---Saxon is a godsend for us and she's doing very well)

Life of Fred (again, I really wanted to like it, but just didn't work for us---the story was engaging but it didn't help my child learn math)

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Anything that teaches the Exodus as fact, without qualification, is not secular. Can SOTW be used in a secular homeschool, with the parent adding additional context? Absolutely, and we use it.

 

 

I agree.

 

Amusingly, when we got to the part about Abraham, my 6 year old turned to me and asked "Is the author of this book Christian?" :rofl: Even he could tell the "tone" changed. But it is only part of the book. It was our first discussion on bias. How sweet.

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SO THEN.....What about those Dodgers??

 

 

 

Well, my opinion is that they've become more of a collection of high-priced players and not so much a team. I'm not sure if Mattingly is the right person to corral all those egos and make them mesh together. It might take the hand of a more experienced manager to do this, a la Joe Torre and the Yankee teams of later 90s-2000s.

 

:-D

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Well, my opinion is that they've become more of a collection of high-priced players and not so much a team. I'm not sure if Mattingly is the right person to corral all those egos and make them mesh together. It might take the hand of a more experienced manager to do this, a la Joe Torre and the Yankee teams of later 90s-2000s.

 

:-D

he he he.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Our duds were:

 

OPGTR - The student text is inline with the teacher's text. A whole page of text was too overwhelming for my non-reader. It needed to be separate. I ended up typing all the student parts and printing them in large print, a few to a page, and storing them in a binder. We made it through the first 20 lessons and my kids took off reading. We never looked back. And my 3rd child taught himself to read, presumably by observing his older siblings, so I never had to find a replacement.

 

Writing With Ease - We had such success with FLL, that I assumed we'd do well with this too. Just tears and fights everyday.

 

Spiral math - several different kinds.

 

Tapestry of Grace - The biggest hit to our pocketbook. Boy, do I love that program on paper...it is nearly impossible to wade through. I've kept it and we'll try again in the next cycle, but it really did not work well for us in 1st grade.

 

Lisa

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I enjoyed reading this old post too. And yes, one man's trash is another man's treasure! So true!

 

Only thing that left a bad taste in my mouth was RightStart Math. We tried it for 2-3 months last fall and I thought I was going die! It was so painful for me and my kids weren't a fan either. I really loved looking at the program and gave it rave reviews when we sold it, but it was not for us. I know other that it fits perfectly. Now I don't regret buying it as I would have never known and would still be wondering if it was the math program for us. :lol: Now I know! It was a huge waste of $400 for both my boys. Yes, I bought the kits with all the hands on stuff. Still have it thinking we may use it. Hasn't happened in the past year. It was a costly experiment!

 

 

I have loved RightStart math. I agree that is is time intensive; it would be so much easier to give my kiddos a worksheet. However, I can see those lightbulb moments of when they are getting the mental math and why it works. I truly feel this will make future math go so much easier for them bc they "get it".

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Don't tell me that - my choice in our curriculum next year is Saxon 5/4 or 6/5. LOL

 

 

It's my understanding that Saxon K-3 is quite different from 5/4 and up. I haven't had any experience with Saxon K-3 (we were suffering through Singapore at those levels), but have found Saxon 6/5 and up to be a godsend (she finally gets it----no more tears over math! :hurray: ). Adding in the Art Reed dvds in Alg 1/2 has made it even better, so don't despair ;) .

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It's my understanding that Saxon K-3 is quite different from 5/4 and up. I haven't had any experience with Saxon K-3 (we were suffering through Singapore at those levels), but have found Saxon 6/5 and up to be a godsend (she finally gets it----no more tears over math! :hurray: ). Adding in the Art Reed dvds in Alg 1/2 has made it even better, so don't despair ;) .

 

 

Thank you.

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I have loved RightStart math. I agree that is is time intensive; it would be so much easier to give my kiddos a worksheet. However, I can see those lightbulb moments of when they are getting the mental math and why it works. I truly feel this will make future math go so much easier for them bc they "get it".

 

 

 

I had to go searching through this post to find my original post as I didn't remember posting it. I may have posted more than once since this post has been around for years. But, it is funny that we are back at using RightStart and this time it is a good fit. :rofl:

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It's my understanding that Saxon K-3 is quite different from 5/4 and up. I haven't had any experience with Saxon K-3 (we were suffering through Singapore at those levels), but have found Saxon 6/5 and up to be a godsend (she finally gets it----no more tears over math! :hurray: ). Adding in the Art Reed dvds in Alg 1/2 has made it even better, so don't despair ;) .

 

 

I might need you to hold my hand next year!! :)

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Professor B math - wish I wasn't so stubborn and that I'd switched from this earlier. Love Singapore

 

Climbing to Good English - the guys didn't learn anything for a couple of years

 

CLE Social Studies 3 - we're still doing this one and will complete it, but I don't feel good about selling the text to anyone else.

 

Oh, and Lyrical Life Science - boring

 

LLAT - too simplistic

 

Not so much of a miss of a program, but I wish I'd pushed writing more in the early years with the older guys.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Making Math Meaningful.

My engineer husband was out of work that year and did most of the 1st grade teaching. He repeatedly came to me to ask me what the book was talking about. Of course, if he doesnt understand something mathematical, you can be sure I don't either! Oddly, there were many times when neither of us could understand how a concept was being taught, but as we read it out loud, our 1st grader would understand and explain it to us. Even then, we still did not often understand.

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Making Math Meaningful.

.... Oddly, there were many times when neither of us could understand how a concept was being taught, but as we read it out loud, our 1st grader would understand and explain it to us. Even then, we still did not often understand.

 

 

Well then, it worked! :lol: Seriously, if the *student* that you were trying to teach with that material understood it, then it was effective. But it's also possible that any curriculum would've worked if you knew up front that that 1st grader could "talk it out" and share what he/she had learned. My oldest is this way. Sometimes all it takes is me asking her a question and/or making one small observation, and she proceeds to explain to me what she's done up to that point, then Bingo! she's nailed it. It took YEARS for me to figure this out, though. :glare:

That said, the parent *does* need to be able to understand, or at least decipher enough to give those little prompts to the student, in order to communicate math with the child. Buying a math curriculum that the child understands more than the parent will only go so far. The child needs the parent (or tutor or whoever) to be able to explain things when they get stuck. (Or at least understand enough to be able to make a prompt.)

 

Anyway.... your post just made me chuckle because of our own math woes and the journey we've been on. :D

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I had to go searching through this post to find my original post as I didn't remember posting it. I may have posted more than once since this post has been around for years. But, it is funny that we are back at using RightStart and this time it is a good fit. :rofl:

 

 

Oh I need to talk to you. I did RS B and part of C with DS1. Then he went back to school for a year and I tried to pick up C again. I couldn't manage the time, so I just went w/ Abeka 3 as part of MODG. Next year it moves to Saxon 5/4. In theory I want to do RS, but I just don't know that I can make it work. Especially since he's now moving to 4th grade, and I don't know where he'd fit. I do think I'll use A and B next year for my younger two and utilize the games. That may be our happy medium.

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  • 1 month later...

Rightstart math didn't work for us and it was pretty expensive. We have used some of the manipulatives for other things and the card games are nice.

 

SOTW wasn't our favorite either.

 

All about spelling hasn't been working well but I'm still undecided. I really want it to work. The problem I have is having to get the big whiteboard out and arranging the tiles while trying to keep the little ones away from it. I don't think it's a good program for a family with little kids around grabbing at things and making noise during lessons. If I had time to teach it where the kids can hear the sounds and not have to worry about keeping the board neat when siblings want to play with it I might like it better.

 

Real science 4 kids has been so so. The textbook is fantastic and we will collect the whole set at all the levels but the experiments have been a pain. They assume you have lots of things on hand so I have to read the lesson, make a shopping list, bring all the kids out to several stores..... If they made a kit with all the materials (except things like fresh lemons) it would be great.

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Spelling Workout. We never made it past A. I could not for the life of me understand how a phonetic reader was supposed to pick out misspelled words. My son would look at the list, sound each word out, and say, "they're all right." I suppose if I had made him memorize the lists he might have gotten them, but that didn't seem like learning how to spell to me.

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I like how this thread keeps getting revived.

 

For us it was Explode the Code Online. Total waste of money.

 

Since then there have been some things we haven't used but nothing that was really a total dud.

 

Can I ask why? I have had that on my radar for a few weeks for my 5yods who is really dragging his feet about learning to read. He loves computers so I thought that maybe it would help him be a bit enthusiastic about ONE thing during his school day.

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Can I ask why? I have had that on my radar for a few weeks for my 5yods who is really dragging his feet about learning to read. He loves computers so I thought that maybe it would help him be a bit enthusiastic about ONE thing during his school day.

 

I'm not sure I would spend a ton of money for an online program for a 5yo boy who's dragging his feet learning to read. He's 5, and he's a boy. Maybe just continue exposing him to a lot of great reading and words in general, then look for more signs of readiness a little later.

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Can I ask why? I have had that on my radar for a few weeks for my 5yods who is really dragging his feet about learning to read. He loves computers so I thought that maybe it would help him be a bit enthusiastic about ONE thing during his school day.

 

Sure. I have posted here a bunch badmouthing it. Some people apparently love it, but it didn't work for us because...

 

* emphasized speed over accuracy

* funny pictures that are cute in the books are just annoyingly obscure when you're timed

* does not let the parent control the levels (you must log the child out, log yourself in, change the level, log out, log the child back in, and then the computer will reset it and not let him go on anyway)

* emphasized typing and typing speed far too much (I have read that there is a rationale for writing the words as a method for learning them in the ETC workbooks, but I think it's inappropriate to have such young children have typing - especially TIMED typing! - so heavily emphasized in a program)

 

I had two final straws. One was that my ds who was barely blending when we used it began gaming it out, memorizing the pictures as sight words, and beating my kid who was starting to read early chapter books at the time. :glare: Then I tried it and *I* couldn't get the highest rank on one of the levels. And I was like, okay, this is just stupid. There's mastery and there's perfectionism.

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Sure. I have posted here a bunch badmouthing it. Some people apparently love it, but it didn't work for us because...

 

* emphasized speed over accuracy

* funny pictures that are cute in the books are just annoyingly obscure when you're timed

* does not let the parent control the levels (you must log the child out, log yourself in, change the level, log out, log the child back in, and then the computer will reset it and not let him go on anyway)

* emphasized typing and typing speed far too much (I have read that there is a rationale for writing the words as a method for learning them in the ETC workbooks, but I think it's inappropriate to have such young children have typing - especially TIMED typing! - so heavily emphasized in a program)

 

I had two final straws. One was that my ds who was barely blending when we used it began gaming it out, memorizing the pictures as sight words, and beating my kid who was starting to read early chapter books at the time. :glare: Then I tried it and *I* couldn't get the highest rank on one of the levels. And I was like, okay, this is just stupid. There's mastery and there's perfectionism.

 

 

Thank you! You just saved me some money!

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Spelling Workout. We never made it past A. I could not for the life of me understand how a phonetic reader was supposed to pick out misspelled words. My son would look at the list, sound each word out, and say, "they're all right." I suppose if I had made him memorize the lists he might have gotten them, but that didn't seem like learning how to spell to me.

 

 

We're using Spelling Workout B... Curious... What do you use for spelling? And why? (anyone can answer :o)

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