Tabrett Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 When and why did such a stringent rules start? I understand not having a car up on blocks as a permanent fixture or throwing out appliances in your yard instead of taking them to the dump, but what made them not allow gardening? It just seems wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I haven't heard of ones that prohibit gardening. I know of quite a few friends who can't have clotheslines due to their HOA's, but gardening is new to me. I would not live in a subdivision that had such stringent regulations. That's why I like my older, not fancy subdivision. No regulations against my chickens, goats, garden, orchard or clotheslines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I guess I could see why they might prohibit growing veggie beds in the front yard, but not the back. I'd be curious to know the rationale for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Basically, they think gardens are ugly and unruly and would detract from the cookie-cutter look they are trying to achieve. And if people divide their yards into gardens it emphasizes the tinyness of the lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Forgive my ignorance. I know that "HOA" means Home Owners Association. To me, "CSA" means Community Supported Agriculture. That is not the context here. So what else does CSA stand for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 For us it is because our lots are .10 of an acre per house, and we have additional lots behind us, so every inch of our yard is viewable by other houses. Because of this, every single "improvement" including gardens, drainage, fences, play structures, additional buildings & storage must be pre-approved. Some people don't think gardens are an appropriate or attractive activity for a suburban neighborhood, and unfortunately when you can see all the yards around, people worry about how that might affect the sale of their house. The HOA rules do make sense if you think about someways - my neighbor did the back wall fence, but he liked to work fast and decided not to cement the shared fence posts. Guess who's yard the fence posts came down in during a wind storm? The idea is to protect the joint or shared areas, which there are a lot of when houses are close together. This has never been our ideal neighborhood, but we came of age to buy a house during the real estate boom and we were trying to buy below our means! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 If it is in your backyard and no one can see it, I don't see how they can say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 If it is in your backyard and no one can see it, I don't see how they can say anything. Our backyard is viewable by many houses (at least 10) so hence the rules & the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 The backyard is viewable by many houses (at least 10) so hence the problem. Could you do more of a landscaped garden? Raised beds or potted? Maybe amoungst decorative plants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Could you do more of a landscaped garden? Raised beds or potted? Maybe amoungst decorative plants? This is what we do. We have a landscaped rock wall garden that was approved, and it does produce some food, but definitely not enough to sustain us all should serious hard times come. It is more of a hobby at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 My sister-in-law's HOA fined her for having a tomato plant on her deck. It was in a beautiful pot but it wasn't on the approved list and they refused to add it to the approved list. Personally, I think a lot of this nonsense will end. With the economy as bad as it is, people are going to a. not be able to afford HOA dues and b. gardens will become the norm anywhere that people can grow some veggies or fruits because the price of food is going up, up, up and isn't likely to come down. I think there will be a lot of pressure put on HOA's to lift those kinds of restrictions. In Michigan, there is a "right to farm" law built into the state constitution. We had several families in Ann Arbor, Auburn Hills, Rochester Hills, and even one guy in West Bloomfield that have used it to successfully keep chickens in otherwise covenanted communities. There are a couple of books devoted to "ornamental" food production in which vegetable and fruit plants are incorporated into the landscaping in non-traditional ways. So, tomatoes may be growing next to cone flowers, which are growing next to peppers, which are growing next to roses, and so forth. One thing to check are the actual zoning laws. Zoning laws trump HOA rules and if there is an educational exemption, then homeschoolers could make a huge case for having a garden. In our area, animals can be kept in town if they are for single family purpose and nothing commercial is taking place or for educational purposes including 4-H. So, though we are on a half acre surrounded by a little town, we have show ducks which also provide me with eggs and my sister-in-law has chickens. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsbaby Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 You may want to double check on the zoning overruling the HOA or CC&R's. In out neighborhood it is not the case. I called zoning and was told we were zoned agriculture, but that HOA override them. This may vary in different areas:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 They live in a golf community and no gardens are allowed. You are allowed containers on your patio, and they provide a lot where you can plant things. I'm not sure where the lot is, my parents have no interest in gardening. It's prohibited because it would distract from the look they (the golf club) is going for. Places I know that don't allow garden usually do so for that reason. Some people think gardens bring down property values and make you look "poor". I think for many places that will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick_Mom Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Forgive my ignorance. I know that "HOA" means Home Owners Association. To me, "CSA" means Community Supported Agriculture. That is not the context here. So what else does CSA stand for? I think it stands for Community Services Association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 hsbaby, Hi, Thanks for the response. This kind of thing is definitely going to vary by state. Though the Michigan Right to Farm law was originally brought into being to prevent farmers from harrassment due to ridiculous "nuisance" suits, it has been upheld in several lower courts as trumping HOA rules. We have not had a supreme court ruling on it however, so it would be interesting to see what would happen if an HOA could afford to and the gumption to pursue it to that level. Since that has never happened, most of the lower courts are ruling based on the precedent of the two districts in the urban areas that made their decisions a few years back. In our area, zoning laws override HOA rules. The HOA's have not been able to implement any rules that violate zoning laws. So, since our zoning laws contain a single family use agricultural clause as well as an educational exemption, there are 4-H kids that have gardens and animals in covenanted sub-divisions. I doubt that the neighbors are happy about it but it is happening more and more. Now, admittedly, we do not have a lot of HOA's. There is only one HOA in the town with the largest population but several more in the county to the north of us along the lake. This may be one reason that HOA's don't trump zoning laws on the local level. I would imagine that things might be very different in heavily tourist communities such as Traverse City, Petoskey, and Charlevoix. Given how the "look" of the community contributes so greatly to the income of the community, I could see very stringent zoning laws and local courts supporting HOA's. That said, I still don't know how they would fair beyond their own district courts since we have a fairly conservative, agriculturally supportive appeals and supreme court. I am still uncertain as to how my sister-in-law's tomato plant in a gorgeous copper container with an ornate iron trellis was detracting from the look of the community! I have a feeling it had a lot more to do with control than anything else. Personally, when it comes to agricultural "rights" in Michigan, I think we have it far better than many other states. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I read that in Detroit they're trying to make a law against some of these smaller gardens. I'll have to see if I can find a link. Here's one:http://www.mackinac.org/13629 Boo. Hiss. Anyway, I have a friend who made a garden of her entire yard. Front and back. She said her neighbors were VERY skeptical at first. But, you should've seen it. It was gorgeous!!!! And, she involved the neighbor kids - which won over their parents. Then, she threw a "garden" party at the end of the summer where she served things made with the items in her garden. Now, she's teaching her neighbors to do it! These types of laws are ridiculous - IMHO, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Jennifer, all I can think of is "ARE THEY NUTS????" Honestly, Detroit has bigger "fish to fry" than somebody's garden! Let's see, the unemployment rate is nearly 33% in Detroit city proper, and nearly 20% in some of the communites surrounding Detroit. They have about 8000 houses they will be demolishing soon because of blight. In the city, one out of every three offices is vacant and it's one out of every four in the suburbs. There are people who are going hungry in that city. They should be encouraging city gardens, suburban gardens, patios of veggies in containers, etc. They should be looking at reclaiming empty lots and allowing communities to grow food! Wow, all we can do is hope that this fries the tail of some very good attorney who will pursue the constitutionality of such a law! At any rate, I am going to email my legislators and see what they know about it and let them know that this voter thinks this is completely absurd! Thanks for letting me know that this is in the works. Also, I loved the story of your friend and how she got the neighbor kids involved in gardening and won over the community. That's the way to do it! Kudos....would she ever consider being a 4-H leader and spreading her knowledge to a wider audience? Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Our HOA allows vegetable gardens in backyards. They can be seen by others, in their backyards. Clotheslines can not be visible from the road. I like it this way, keeping things looking nice is one of the reasons we picked a neighborhood with an HOA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psm321 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Sorry to bump up such an old topic, but could someone (FaithManor if still around?) help with information on Michigan HOA cases with the Right to Farm Act? I haven't been able to find any information suggesting that it applies to gardens and HOAs and am trying to deal with an HOA that is picking on a garden (not even really correctly applying their own rules, but if RTFA applies that would be an easier slam dunk). Thanks in advance to anyone that may be able to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Here's a new trend you will like. Developments that come with their own farms! http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/12/17/251713829/forget-golf-courses-subdivisions-draw-residents-with-farms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Sorry to bump up such an old topic, but could someone (FaithManor if still around?) help with information on Michigan HOA cases with the Right to Farm Act? I haven't been able to find any information suggesting that it applies to gardens and HOAs and am trying to deal with an HOA that is picking on a garden (not even really correctly applying their own rules, but if RTFA applies that would be an easier slam dunk). Thanks in advance to anyone that may be able to help! I'm in a different state, but CA (Community Association) laws here allow CAs and HOAs to be more restrictive than state and local laws. The only thing they can't do is be less restrictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Our backyard is viewable by many houses (at least 10) so hence the rules & the problem. So what? Is having to view a garden so horrific that delicate suburban eyes can't bear it? Clearly, I'm not a fan of HOAs or the mentality behind them. (ugh - just realized this is a zombie thread.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I have heard of some HOA's being like this. I think it is the feeling of control from the HOA board. But our HOA is not like this. If anything, our HOA doesn't control anyone. I wish they would not allow tall play structures that loom over neighbors fences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I read comments on a recent news article about front yard gardening where a few people said that they strongly associated gardens, no matter how nice, with immigrants in low-income neighborhoods. I suspect that similar sentiments are the root of many HOA rules. (Not agreeing! I'm happy to live with no HOA!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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