"Asian style maths?"

[engu]

I've read a few posts where the "Asian" style of learning maths is used. I can only name Maths Mammoth and Singapore (obviously). Whats the difference and what other flavours are there:confused:

[Spy Car]

Many of the programs that might be called "Asian style math" (including Math Mammoth) are not from Asia. But here are a few than teach in a similar style.

 

Right Start was written by an American author, Dr Joan Cotter, whom was influenced by Montessori ideas and "Asian style" math, including using the abacus as the primary manipulative. On thing RS does is teach many strategies around making 5s rather than just 10s as the basis for mental computation unlike programs like Singapore which make 10s.

 

Miquon was written in the United States for a private school in Miquon, PA by a German Jewish refugee from Nazi Germany named Lore Rasmussen. Her methods included trying to provide young students with simple ways to understand complex ideas, making sure part of their learning came from being guided to "discover" concepts and "proving" mathematical relationships for themselves using such tools as Cuisenaire Rods to make the understanding clear and concrete. Then building on those concrete understandings with elegantly simple ways of making the laws of mathematics clear and comprehensible to young children and clear to their teacher/parents (who may never have learned these concepts themselves).

 

MEP is a program used in the United Kingdom, but it is based on a Hungarian program and model. Like the others it is based on a wholes-parts approach to math. MEP is especially geared towards developing logic and critical thinking. The problems in the student books are often described as "puzzle-like." The Lesson plans reflect that Hungary did not have the money for a lot of fancy "stuff" for teaching math, but that they did have their minds, and could utilize the things around them to engage children. Of all the math programs MEP is perhaps the most "cerebral."

 

There is a Japanese program called Tokyo Shoseki that a few parents here have used. Obviously Asian. It brings more geometry into elementary math than is typical. The books are fairly lint on text in the early levels and teach pictorially. Not as much handholding as a parent would get from a Singapore package.

 

Those are the main ones.

 

Bill

Edited October 11, 2010 by Spy Car

[freerange]

Another big difference is that MEP is free!

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

While MEP is free I found it more difficult to implement than MM, which is very inexpensive and much IMHO more open and go than MEP. I probably wouldn't have had a problem (or as much of a problem) with MEP if I had fewer children (or fewer young children) but I can't change my kids so I changed my math, LOL. I also prefer that MM comes in worktexts organized by subject OR grade level. Since I prefer my math organized by subject instead of grade level (and MEP is only organized by grade level) that was another biggie for me.

[Spy Car]

While I love MEP, I don't think picking it because it can be down-loaded without cost is a very good reason for choosing it as a math program.

 

I fear some people may see "free" and then jump into the deep-end when they and their children might benefit more from something else (like Math Mammoth) to get them started.

 

That said, it does not cost anything to look. The Lesson Plans are filled with easy to implement activities, and the student pages are highly interesting. But it is also "the hardest" program I've seen for elementary school.

 

Bill

[stripe]

I agree; don't pick something because it's free. After all, you will have to print at least SOME of it. And if you are comparing it to something that comes in color, it might not be very expensive, comparatively speaking, to have a flashy colored workbook component. The best thing about having a free program is being able to really look through it, at multiple levels, instead of biting the bullet and buying it, unless you have access to a physical book you can check out beforehand.

 

One could also find whatever is used in other countries, and use that. An example of this would be ordering remotely or buying while traveling. Some textbooks from India are available online, as an example (years 1 to 12). There are some translations of Japanese junior/sr high texts.

Edited October 11, 2010 by stripe

[Poke Salad Annie]

The best thing about having a free program is being able to really look through it, at multiple levels, instead of biting the bullet and buying it, unless you have access to a physical book you can check out beforehand.

 

This is absolutely true! I truly cherish the thought that I can look over the whole of MEP and not make another mistake by choosing it.

[stripe]

Another Asian program I have seen is an oldie from the Philippines called Primary Arithmetic by Mabel Barnsall. Honestly, though, I am not sure I would say this is a native Philippine approach, but it does have a Philippine "flavor" to it (problems about guavas, centavos, with children named Luz and Jose).

[KristineinKS]

There are also the NCERT textbooks from India. You can download individual chapters here, or the entire books here. We have a set sent by my SIL's in India, but I haven't used them much since we've been very happy with Singapore. Nevertheless, the books are free to download, so they might be worth checking out.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This site has a huge variety of Singapore Math books. I just ordered Math Express Speed Math Strategies to re-inforce Singapore Math:D

 

 

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?N=1111543&Ne=10000

 

Anyone have experience with any of the others listed?

[Spy Car]

 

One could also find whatever is used in other countries, and use that. An example of this would be ordering remotely or buying while traveling. Some textbooks from India are available online, as an example (years 1 to 12).

 

I'llthank you agin for having mentioned these. We've done through level 2 and are into level 3 of this Indian math series. I would not make it my "math spine" but they have proved a very charming supplement.

 

Bill

[MissKNG]

nm...I'm over it.

Edited October 11, 2010 by MissKNG

[Crimson Wife]

Another program that is based on the Asian way of teaching math is Math in Focus: The Singapore Approach. It is an Americanization of the post-2001 syllabus Singapore program My Pals are Here.

 

When most homeschoolers talk about "Singapore Math", they are referring to the pre-2001 syllabus Primary Mathematics program. MIF is similar to PM but it is more incremental and walks the students through the concepts step-by-step-by-step rather than making the conceptual leaps that PM does. Also, from my preview of the 4A materials, the scope & sequence runs a bit behind PM and the "enrichment" book of MIF is less challenging than the PM Intensive Practice book. So I'd say that MIF is not as good of a choice for bright kids as PM.

[stripe]

Liping Ma also has a remedial type program....I have a copy of one of the books but I can't find it!

[Spy Car]

Liping Ma also has a remedial type program....I have a copy of one of the books but I can't find it!

 

It is called "Knowing Mathematics." I have Level 4 and read the students section but got distracted before reading the Teachers portion.

 

Bill

[stripe]

Ah, thanks. I can't find my copy!

[AngelBee]

What kind of math is MUS? I don't understand the differences. :::hiding behind couch:::

[Devotional Soul]

Here's books for teaching Vedic math:

 

http://www.vedicmathsindia.org/book.htm

[michelle l]

What kind of math is MUS? I don't understand the differences. :::hiding behind couch:::

 

:bigear::bigear:

 

Hiding with you.

[AngelBee]

:bigear::bigear:

 

Hiding with you.

Here...have some popcorn. :lurk5: Glad I am not alone! :)

[Beth in SW WA]

We've used a ton of traditional math materials (Saxon, Horizons, Abeka, TT, etc) over the years and are now adding 'Asian' methods (Singapore, MM, RS) to the party. They make students (and parents) think in a deeper way about the concepts. I've seen the light. :)

[Sweetpeach]

Of all the math programs MEP is perhaps the most "cerebral."

 

Bill

 

Hi Bill, I'm one of those gals who started out with MEP because it was "free" and yes, we like it, use it exclusively and have been pleased with the results.

 

Could you expand on your comment above?

 

I'm knee-deep in YR 6 and I'm perfectly embarassed at just how little I know about math. I wonder if I'm doing my boys a disservice b/c I can't see the bigger math picture. Dreaming post YR 6 since I'll be inviting a DVD math prof into our home! :)

 

T

[Spy Car]

Hi Bill, I'm one of those gals who started out with MEP because it was "free" and yes, we like it, use it exclusively and have been pleased with the results.

 

Could you expand on your comment above?

 

I'm knee-deep in YR 6 and I'm perfectly embarassed at just how little I know about math. I wonder if I'm doing my boys a disservice b/c I can't see the bigger math picture. Dreaming post YR 6 since I'll be inviting a DVD math prof into our home! :)

 

T

 

What I mean is that of the math programs I've seen MEP has the most consistently challenging problems. There is an obvious desire to build logic and critical thinking skills from the earliest levels of the program. Children (and their adult partners) really need to "think" to solve many of the problems.

 

I see a contrast between MEP and Singapore (which has challenging problems in the CWP and IP books) in that the Singapore materials clearly build a "method" for problem solving. The whole-parts foundation that starts with what they call "number bonds" evolves into strategies for mental math and solving problems through bar-diagrams. Where the work in Singapore is challenging, there is a clear method to be used for problem solving.

 

MEP, while using some similar techniques, seems (and we are only in Level 2, so "grain of salt" time) to push reasoning skills somewhat ahead of a "method." There are precursor lessons, and the Lesson Plans activities are hugely helpful, but the "logic" has to be worked out more by the student (it seems to me) using MEP with strategies of their own making rather than working a method as in Singapore.

 

I see upsides and downsides to both. MEP certainly works the noodles.

 

Bill

[Sweetpeach]

Hi Bill,

Yes, it's true about MEP and noodles --- I often feel immensely inadequate to do the math bit. MEP 6 is already giving me a run for my money and we're not even 30 lessons in. Math is always on my mind. I have this idea that a teacher should be a few steps ahead and be able to see the coming mathematical landscape. Sadly, I don't.

 

It's true that MEP doesn't have a set "math path" for each question. Often, three of four different solutions are offered, with the hope that the student would dig out each different path. It often makes sense to me, but somedays, the digging is long and tedious.

 

[a wee little party never hurt anyone, 'specially after five straight days of rain!]

 

T

[Spy Car]

Hi Bill,

Yes, it's true about MEP and noodles --- I often feel immensely inadequate to do the math bit. MEP 6 is already giving me a run for my money and we're not even 30 lessons in. Math is always on my mind. I have this idea that a teacher should be a few steps ahead and be able to see the coming mathematical landscape. Sadly, I don't.

 

It's true that MEP doesn't have a set "math path" for each question. Often, three of four different solutions are offered, with the hope that the student would dig out each different path. It often makes sense to me, but somedays, the digging is long and tedious.

 

[a wee little party never hurt anyone, 'specially after five straight days of rain!]

 

T

 

If it is any consolation to you, I ran into a problem in Level 3 (working one day with my nephew) that stumped me at first. After a few moments of incredulity that I had not solved the problem correctly, I did re-group and found my error. But MEP can be hard. And almost always takes "brain-work." But that's why I like it, and why (I believe) many bright kids who might otherwise find math "boring" (because it is all mindless drill, drill, drill, in some programs) find it is actually a very stimulating and intellectually satisfying subject.

 

I also believe that the hard mental work actually builds a better brain. The science of how the brain builds the neural network and what stimulates dendritic branching is still evolving, but is seems clear mental stimulus makes for a stronger brain much like weight lifting builds stronger muscles.

 

So keep at it. You are going to the "brain gym." :D

 

Bill (who is glad he's in 2A :tongue_smilie:)

[Testimony]

Isn't Kumon math Asian? I could be totally wrong.

 

Blessing in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[engu]

If it is any consolation to you, I ran into a problem in Level 3 (working one day with my nephew) that stumped me at first. After a few moments of incredulity that I had not solved the problem correctly, I did re-group and found my error. But MEP can be hard. And almost always takes "brain-work." But that's why I like it, and why (I believe) many bright kids who might otherwise find math "boring" (because it is all mindless drill, drill, drill, in some programs) find it is actually a very stimulating and intellectually satisfying subject.

 

I also believe that the hard mental work actually builds a better brain. The science of how the brain builds the neural network and what stimulates dendritic branching is still evolving, but is seems clear mental stimulus makes for a stronger brain much like weight lifting builds stronger muscles.

 

So keep at it. You are going to the "brain gym." :D

 

Bill (who is glad he's in 2A :tongue_smilie:)

 

I always learn heaps from your post bill. We've finally decided to order Miquon with cusineaire rods because I think it will suit dd's learning style - dd's a kinesthetic learner.

 

In the meantime we've been trying out MEP - the Reception Year materials. To my surprise dd really loves it. However at 4.4 do you think she's ready for a brain workout? I've always thought that at such an early age, that they're better off absorbing information.

[bethben]

MIF is similar to PM but it is more incremental and walks the students through the concepts step-by-step-by-step rather than making the conceptual leaps that PM does. Also, from my preview of the 4A materials, the scope & sequence runs a bit behind PM and the "enrichment" book of MIF is less challenging than the PM Intensive Practice book. So I'd say that MIF is not as good of a choice for bright kids as PM.

 

I am working through 1A (MIF) with my ds and am finding it to be a much gentler speed. Halfway through Singapore 1A, I found that he really wasn't understanding, so I switched and am starting over with MIF. For, him, he is finally getting some concepts Singapore jumps quickly through. I don't know if we'll keep with MIF, but for now, it's really helping. His older brother was able to make the jumps singapore throws at them so he did level 1 no problem. I'm really liking MIF right now.

 

Beth

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

What kind of math is MUS? I don't understand the differences. :::hiding behind couch:::

I'm not sure I'd classify it as Asian but it's definitely not traditional. When reading Liping Ma's book and it discussed dividing fractions I realized that the only place I'd seen one of the conceptual examples used by the Chinese to help the student understand dividing fractions in MUS (where you actually divide across the numerator and denominator instead of just multiplying by the reciprocal). That sounds confusing so here's an example:

 

4 divided by 2 = 4 divided by 2 = 2

9xxxxxxxxxxx3XX9 divided by 3xxx3

 

Still, I'm not sure if I would classify MUS as Asian because I'm far from an expert on Asian math and even though MUS seemed to cover the ways the Chinese teachers taught elementary math I don't think it's an Asian style math but more of a conceptual US math, if that makes sense. It's definitely unique though and definitely not traditional US math.

 

I'm tired and rambling so I think I'll stop:lol:

[AngelBee]

I'm not sure I'd classify it as Asian but it's definitely not traditional. When reading Liping Ma's book and it discussed dividing fractions I realized that the only place I'd seen one of the conceptual examples used by the Chinese to help the student understand dividing fractions in MUS (where you actually divide across the numerator and denominator instead of just multiplying by the reciprocal). That sounds confusing so here's an example:

 

4 divided by 2 = 4 divided by 2 = 2

9xxxxxxxxxxx3XX9 divided by 3xxx3

 

Still, I'm not sure if I would classify MUS as Asian because I'm far from an expert on Asian math and even though MUS seemed to cover the ways the Chinese teachers taught elementary math I don't think it's an Asian style math but more of a conceptual US math, if that makes sense. It's definitely unique though and definitely not traditional US math.

 

I'm tired and rambling so I think I'll stop:lol:

Thank you for your response. I couldn't figure out where it "fit". ")

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Thank you for your response. I couldn't figure out where it "fit". ")

You're welcome:001_smile: That's my take but I'd love to know what those more experienced with Asian math think. From what Dr Demme says the DVD's, it's clear that he didn't design it after Asian math but there does seem to be some overlap in the way the concepts are taught, especially in the elementary courses. Liping Ma only discusses elementary math so I don't know how upper level course would be different in Asian math.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I'llthank you agin for having mentioned these. We've done through level 2 and are into level 3 of this Indian math series. I would not make it my "math spine" but they have proved a very charming supplement.

 

Bill

Bill, is this free? Can you download without cost? How do you use it? We are doing MEP 3 online so I don't have to print anything and ds 8 likes it enough and it lines up with data analysis in the end of Singapore 3A.

J

[Spy Car]

Bill, is this free? Can you download without cost? How do you use it? We are doing MEP 3 online so I don't have to print anything and ds 8 likes it enough and it lines up with data analysis in the end of Singapore 3A.

J

 

Yes, they are free to download. The early books (at least) are sort of story oriented. I've just put them on our iPad (perfect for this use) and used them in lieu of bed-time stories on some evenings as we wind down.

 

We are just treating them very informally, having my son solve the problems mentally, enjoying the different cultural perspectives and the interesting art and patterns incorporated in the texts, and not treating it like another "math curriculum."

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I always learn heaps from your post bill. We've finally decided to order Miquon with cusineaire rods because I think it will suit dd's learning style - dd's a kinesthetic learner.

 

In the meantime we've been trying out MEP - the Reception Year materials. To my surprise dd really loves it. However at 4.4 do you think she's ready for a brain workout? I've always thought that at such an early age, that they're better off absorbing information.

 

Thank you for the kind words.

 

I owe you a long answer about "brain work-outs" for young children. The short answer is I'm convinced children have an amazing capacity to learn. We all know that. We just need to be sensitive to creating both opportunities for them to engage with the world (including, but certainly not limited to, learning math) and not rushing into things that are inappropriate to their intellectual development.

 

There is a 3rd way in-between "delayed academics" and advancing "formal academics" to an age where it really isn't appropriate. I think Miquon has wonderfully ideas on how to make for a more "Math Lab" kind of approach to early math education. I hope you find these materials enriching.

 

Best wishes!

 

Bill