News story about food stamps on msnbc

[Ravin]

If you wouldn't allow your own kids to eat Little Debbie snacks for breakfast, why is it fine for someone who is low income because we dare not question their 'right' to spend money on whatever they want.

Maybe because low income people on food stamps aren't my children, but adults capable of making their own food-buying decisions. The government isn't their parent, either. Having the money to have some food buying options makes a difference all in itself.

 

I reiterate my earlier observations that people on food stamps buy food much the same way as those without them.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

After a time of poverty, stress, and freakouts about how I was going to fill my dc bellies the next meal, we recently and finally got on food stamps.

 

1. My hubby is nearly a Nutritional Therapist. We know how to eat healthy and hardly agree with the government food pyramid or modern nutrition propaganda. So we would not be interested in their "education".

 

2. There was a time when we would, say, drop 10k to help someone adopt. We knew a friend (barely making it) who needed their car repaired, so we called their mechanic and paid their bill. We did the same for another friend who in an emergency situation, racked up a huge hospital expense. We've given large amounts of money to some wonderful charities who make a real difference in other's lives.

 

We lost everything the last few years in the real estate market crash, including our car. We've recently been given an old but running van after borrowing a truck for over a year. What a blessing that van is! We love it! The money we lost was our own. It was not from property sales. We invested into property because it was one of the safest places to invest. :001_huh:

 

Anyway, my face burns with shame when I use our food card, but I thank God and am so appreciative as well. I've received nasty looks and rude treatment when purchasing time comes around. The shame is a good thing, I think. I don't think one should be comfortable taking handouts. We hope to not need gov't aid in the near future. My hubby is gone 24/7. I am basically a single mom and have been for the past few years as dh has been busy providing. We are frugal. We never take vacations and work most holidays. When he is not out milking cows, he is out trying to bring in income other ways. He is starting a CSA and it looks promising. Who knows what the future holds. It's hard right now, especially since I am very, very sick on top of it all (getting better though, especially since we can eat healthily now!)

 

We are hardworking, educated folks on food stamps. Hard times for lots of ppl right now.

Edited October 9, 2010 by mommyjen

[Tea Time]

We are hardworking, educated folks on food stamps. Hard times for lots of ppl right now.

 

:grouphug:

 

I wish that we were all getting a clearer picture of what is really happening to people out there. It is hard to know! I hope things turn around for you soon.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

:grouphug:

 

I wish that we were all getting a clearer picture of what is really happening to people out there. It is hard to know! I hope things turn around for you soon.

:crying: Thank you! There's so much emotion, but you just stay strong and do what you gotta do. I miss my hubby most of all. It was good to cry a little and let it out.

Edited October 9, 2010 by mommyjen

[Amy Jo]

Oh god, I still have nightmares about the WIC "nutritionist." We received it up until my dd was around two, and we kept dd on a vegetarian diet from the start of solids up until, oh, maybe eighteen months, simply because I didn't see the need for her to eat meat right away. I've done more research than the average joe on nutrition, and her diet was healthier than most adults. Her baby food was all made at home, and when she started real food, she ate an amazing variety. Lentils and avocados are still two of her favorite foods.

 

The WIC nutritionist, however, yelled at me every single time I had to go in for our appointments. Meat, meat, meat. That was all I heard. Dd needed meat at lunch and dinner, every day, or she'd never be healthy. She'd cut me off if I didn't start feeding her meat. Never mind that dd's ped said after he checked her blood at one checkup that she had the best iron levels he'd ever seen in a toddler. Nope, she must have meat, or I was neglecting her.

 

Aaargh. To get back to the general topic, we receive foodstamps now because dh just cannot find a job- he's been looking for a year now- and the idea that because I'm on assistance I need nutrition classes to eat well is, frankly, insulting. I am college educated. I've read probably twenty books on nutrition, just for my own knowledge. Couple that with the fact that the people the gov't appoint to tell us what to eat seem to be idiots, and I'd rather choose myself what I eat.

 

We spend $450 a month for the three of us, and let me tell you, it doesn't go far. Whoever said that preparing food from scratch is so much cheaper than processed convenience food obviously hasn't shopped in Minnesota. Produce is outrageously expensive. Hamburger helper is dirt cheap. We eat healthy, and buy certain things, such as milk, organically. The money doesn't go very far, and I am a fairly good cook, if I may say so. I do make bread from scratch, and almost everything else.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[mommytobees]

:D

 

:D

 

That's too bad, really. I wonder if they'll ever get WIC on a card somehow, like ebt to avoid this type of fraud. And I'm glad to know the changes are across the board.

 

Several states have WIC on cards. My mom is a WIC nutritionist/ director and has worked WIC in 5 different states. The one she currently works in doesn't have electronic cards, but the previous state she worked in does. She said it has its own set of hassles, but is a good program (the electronic systems).

 

Kris

[kalanamak]

Shame destroys people.

 

.

 

Well, then, we have different definitions. By shame I mean a desire to live up to the kind of person you think you should be, and an internal negative feedback when you don't, such that it makes you strive to be better. I don't mean guilt or embarrassment. I grew up in a guiltless family. My mother was vehemently anti-guilt (as a non-legal term....as a feeling). If you can't, you can't, such is life, but if you CAN, you SHOULD. "Shame", by how I mean it, has served me well to be better than I would have been if I thought there was no need to have ideals.

 

So when umbrage is taken over a line like "it is not unhealthy to feel shame", I now assume we are talking apples and oranges. If healthy pride pulls one along, healthy shame pushes on the tailgate.

 

As to "people who abuse the system", I certainly see it in my line of work. If you have a conscienceless criminals who fakes mental illness to get a warm place to stay (or get out of a legal charge), who use their stay as a time to financially and sexually mistreat the other patients (and oh, so slyly), to get free dental work and eyeglasses, and who run a social worker ragged getting housing and "bennies" because it is more expensive to keep that person in the mental institution than in the community....well I have seem more of those than I can count.

 

I have also witnessed various abuses, such as a Canadian student who "borrowed" her roomie's ID to get on various programs, etc. (roomie didn't even know).

 

As to "nutrition and purchasing rules or classes", when you have a person who doesn't even comprehend how to wash and dress a skinned knee, I do not assume they have the basics of nutrition down. This is more common than you think, too.

 

I am certainly not anti-food stamp. I know that there are people who just can't get by due to physical, mental, or emotional limitations. I know there are people who are down on their luck and trying hard. I doubt that any of us, however, care to support those who can but have found an easier way of getting through life: scheming for handouts in whatever way they can. The effort and intelligence put into it is amazing. To say that such people exist is not an insult to the other categories and should not be taken as such.

[Renee in NC]

Well, then, we have different definitions. By shame I mean a desire to live up to the kind of person you think you should be, and an internal negative feedback when you don't, such that it makes you strive to be better. I don't mean guilt or embarrassment. I grew up in a guiltless family. My mother was vehemently anti-guilt (as a non-legal term....as a feeling). If you can't, you can't, such is life, but if you CAN, you SHOULD. "Shame", by how I mean it, has served me well to be better than I would have been if I thought there was no need to have ideals.

 

So when umbrage is taken over a line like "it is not unhealthy to feel shame", I now assume we are talking apples and oranges. If healthy pride pulls one along, healthy shame pushes on the tailgate.

 

As to "people who abuse the system", I certainly see it in my line of work. If you have a conscienceless criminals who fakes mental illness to get a warm place to stay (or get out of a legal charge), who use their stay as a time to financially and sexually mistreat the other patients (and oh, so slyly), to get free dental work and eyeglasses, and who run a social worker ragged getting housing and "bennies" because it is more expensive to keep that person in the mental institution than in the community....well I have seem more of those than I can count.

 

I have also witnessed various abuses, such as a Canadian student who "borrowed" her roomie's ID to get on various programs, etc. (roomie didn't even know).

 

As to "nutrition and purchasing rules or classes", when you have a person who doesn't even comprehend how to wash and dress a skinned knee, I do not assume they have the basics of nutrition down. This is more common than you think, too.

 

I am certainly not anti-food stamp. I know that there are people who just can't get by due to physical, mental, or emotional limitations. I know there are people who are down on their luck and trying hard. I doubt that any of us, however, care to support those who can but have found an easier way of getting through life: scheming for handouts in whatever way they can. The effort and intelligence put into it is amazing. To say that such people exist is not an insult to the other categories and should not be taken as such.

 

I agree. The other side of that, though, is that these people do not represent the majority of people getting food stamps or other benefits. Unfortunately, many people do see just those people and tar everyone with that same brush.

[In2why]

Sweetbasil, I think it is fantastic that your family eats so well on such a shoestring budget. My family is fortunate to be able to do something similar.... but I think that there are many factors that go into how far a family can stretch their food money. I used to wonder how on earth families could receive food stamps that were twice the amount I was spending each month. What could they possibly be buying with that money? Well, some of them are buying convenience foods because they are living in a motel with no way to even heat their meals. Or their oven is out of commission and there is no chance that it can be fixed or replaced, possibly for months. They might have food stamps but have had their electricity shut off -- even boxed mac and cheese can't be made without power. That convenience food might be meant for their children to prepare for themselves while the parents are working and aren't able to be home at mealtime. Maybe that frozen pizza is the only thing they can reasonably expect a teenage babysitter, the only one they can afford to pay, to prepare for their kids while they are working. Maybe those convenience foods are going into the cart so that they can spend an hour helping a child with homework or caring for elderly parent, or attending a job training workshop...... maybe an hour in the kitchen is an hour they don't have to spare while they are juggling multiple part-time jobs while they search for the full-time job they hope will mean no more food stamps. And food stamps don't stretch quite as far when you can only get to the stores that are on the busline, or within walking distance, and you certainly can't stock up on sale items or buy in bulk without access to a car.

 

I appreciate you writing this post. I never considered the point you brought up.

[RoughCollie]

Well, then, we have different definitions. By shame I mean a desire to live up to the kind of person you think you should be, and an internal negative feedback when you don't, such that it makes you strive to be better.

 

I call that personal responsibility -- and it stops where events beyond my control begin. I try hard to minimize the effects of those events and to foresee them, of course, but I am not always successful. An example is that DH's income decreased by 67% over a two year period. This was unexpected (could not have been foreseen) and completely beyond DH's control. Since I had been my usual very frugal and practical self during the 18 years of our marriage before that happened, I did not take personal responsibility for the effects of our reduced circumstances, although our entire family was affected by them. (I sure hope I used affect and effect correctly in that sentence.)

 

I call "internal negative feedback" guilt -- I listen to it as part of self-monitoring. I don't like feeling guilty, and I do whatever is necessary not to feel that way. It is a handy reminder that I am doing something that is out of alignment with my preferred opinion of myself.

 

Sometimes my guilt is unwarranted. For instance, I was sick yesterday from 3 p.m. onward, and had no energy. I told the family that this was fix your own sandwich night. At 10:30 p.m., DS3 and I were the only ones home. I realized I had not seen him eat anything that day. (He is like me - when he is busy, he forgets to eat and he disregards hunger pangs.) I fixed him some eggs, biscuits, and OJ. I told him I felt guilty that I hadn't provided him with a meal earlier or reminded him to eat dinner. He said that this was misplaced guilt because he is perfectly capable of fixing himself a meal but it wasn't a priority for him. He was right, so I stopped feeling guilty.

 

The other thing about feeling guilty is that I sometimes wonder if I would have been an uncaught (of course), rich, master criminal if I did not have a conscience, and how I ended up with one in the first place. Is it from God? Are people born with this? Did I talk myself into it to prevent myself from becoming a master criminal because the thought of going to prison horrifies me? This comes up because I am good at figuring out perfect crimes due to interest, intelligence, education, and work experience with actual criminals.

Edited October 10, 2010 by RoughCollie

[m0mmaBuck]

Well, then, we have different definitions. By shame I mean a desire to live up to the kind of person you think you should be, and an internal negative feedback when you don't, such that it makes you strive to be better. I don't mean guilt or embarrassment. I grew up in a guiltless family. My mother was vehemently anti-guilt (as a non-legal term....as a feeling). If you can't, you can't, such is life, but if you CAN, you SHOULD. "Shame", by how I mean it, has served me well to be better than I would have been if I thought there was no need to have ideals.

 

So when umbrage is taken over a line like "it is not unhealthy to feel shame", I now assume we are talking apples and oranges. If healthy pride pulls one along, healthy shame pushes on the tailgate.

 

As to "people who abuse the system", I certainly see it in my line of work. If you have a conscienceless criminals who fakes mental illness to get a warm place to stay (or get out of a legal charge), who use their stay as a time to financially and sexually mistreat the other patients (and oh, so slyly), to get free dental work and eyeglasses, and who run a social worker ragged getting housing and "bennies" because it is more expensive to keep that person in the mental institution than in the community....well I have seem more of those than I can count.

 

I have also witnessed various abuses, such as a Canadian student who "borrowed" her roomie's ID to get on various programs, etc. (roomie didn't even know).

 

As to "nutrition and purchasing rules or classes", when you have a person who doesn't even comprehend how to wash and dress a skinned knee, I do not assume they have the basics of nutrition down. This is more common than you think, too.

 

I am certainly not anti-food stamp. I know that there are people who just can't get by due to physical, mental, or emotional limitations. I know there are people who are down on their luck and trying hard. I doubt that any of us, however, care to support those who can but have found an easier way of getting through life: scheming for handouts in whatever way they can. The effort and intelligence put into it is amazing. To say that such people exist is not an insult to the other categories and should not be taken as such.

 

:iagree:

[In2why]

I'm going to come down on both sides of this issue. I'm glad there are programs to help people who are down on their luck and I think these are the hallmark of a healthy, caring society.

 

I don't, however, think that it's unhealthy to feel a bit of shame when you are on them. One's goal in life should be to become self-sufficient, to take the help when needed, but to get back on one's feet as soon as possible. It's important to recognize that food stamps and other forms of welfare come from other people's taxes, and there are people delaying their families, working second shifts, dropping out of school, and making other sacrifices because those taxes are high. We should do what we can to get off public assistance and to use it wisely, rather than look at it as a birthright or free money from the sky.

 

Mmmm, sugary carp. ;)

 

 

I think the bolded part is important. I am also glad that there are programs to help people. I needed them and took advantage when I was divorced with 3 small children. But I also think that if there isn't any type of stigma it is easy to see government assistance as a generational lifestyle choice. I believe that when people feel frustration at the people getting assistance these are the situations they are thinking about. Women who choose to have babies because they have seen their family members do so, and get more help because of it. The people who work the system, so that they don't have to work, or because they actually don't know any other way due to the generational component. Luckily that isn't the majority of the people on assistance.

 

My daughter had a child when she was 19 and would have qualified for assistance, but we were her welfare system. I didn't want her to get caught up in government programs that are at time barbaric, and actually can reward people for not working. She was at an impressionable age, and there were other factors too, but because we helped her financially she was able to get the benefits of help and working until she was able to become financially independent. She never had to decide if this job, or those hours, or this school program would cut her assistance, or hurt her childcare. Instead she could focus on doing what needed to be done to long term be in the best situation for her and her son. Actions become habit if done long enough, whether they are good or bad. Take away the stigma, and do it long enough for it to become a habit and it is possible to become a lifestyle. IMO

[cathmom]

I would like to also point out that many people who receive assistance have paid into the system in the past and hopefully will again. In the meantime, they are still most likely paying all sorts of taxes - property taxes, sales taxes, taxes on their utilities, state income taxes, etc.

 

I do not think that people should feel shame because they qualify for something that their duly elected representatives have put into place to assist the citizens of this country.

[Joaly]

I grew up in a family of ten - my mother never worked - and my father was a farm laborer. We were poor! All of my clothes were hand-me-downs and I was lucky to get one pair of shoes per week. Although we qualified for many aid programs, including food stamps and reduced lunch, my parents would never accept it. We never had health insurance. We never owned a single book. If we didn't have money for something, we went without - and we went without very often. It was a weekly occurance for us to be out of food and have to wait until payday to get groceries. Everything was rationed to try to make it through the week.

 

This taught my siblings and I to be careful stewards of what we have earned over the years. If my own family were in need of aid, however, I would accept and use the aid with no qualms whatsoever, partly because I simply don't have the fortitude that my parents had and partly because I believe that that would enable me to stretch all of my resources more wisely.

 

I think that if people are in circumstances where they quality for aid, they should participate and use these resources as carefully as possible, considering that this is a shared resource and if everyone does their part, then the resource will stretch to help more families. The stigmas that exist about the abuses of aid come about because we all know someone - neighbors, friends, and family members, etc. who do indeed abuse aid programs.

 

The issue that I see as most disturbing in all of this is the trend to settle for less and less in our pursuits of excellence and the constant need for affirmation that it is OK to just accept failure or affirmation in our being 'victims'. And, if someone is unwilling to affirm that acceptance, then they are surely haters and just don't have empathy for another's circumstances. Sure, we all have our seasons of problems, pitfalls, health issues, etc. but we must continue to move forward, always striving to do better. Our society has many ills, but this trend is causing us to spiral beyond our ability to repair the damage.

[Mejane]

 

The issue that I see as most disturbing in all of this is the trend to settle for less and less in our pursuits of excellence and the constant need for affirmation that it is OK to just accept failure or affirmation in our being 'victims'. And, if someone is unwilling to affirm that acceptance, then they are surely haters and just don't have empathy for another's circumstances. Sure, we all have our seasons of problems, pitfalls, health issues, etc. but we must continue to move forward, always striving to do better. Our society has many ills, but this trend is causing us to spiral beyond our ability to repair the damage.

 

:iagree:

Edited October 10, 2010 by Mejane