News story about food stamps on msnbc

[Mejane]

Stacey, NYC's Mayor Bloomberg agrees with you.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/nyc-food-stamp-users-soda/story?id=11825037

[m0mmaBuck]

I never said anyone was poor and stupid. I have been there. I raised 4 kids alone, babysat 60 hours a week and typed till 1 or 2 in the morning for a detective agency to make ends meet so I could stay home with my kids. I GOT food stamps. There ARE ways to stretch the dollar amount.

 

And maybe some people can't have beans and rice, but most people can eat foods from at least some of the basic food groups. I merely said that buying a lot of frozen, prepared foods will use your allotment up faster. It'd be nice for there to be some guidelines so SOME people who might need help stretching the funds could get good ideas.

 

I often think the same thing. I don't think it is a bad idea to encourage people to eat a balanced, healthy diet. I definitely do so when I am stretching my own food budget, and I think people receiving food stamps should at least be educated on how to do the same.

 

When people receive WIC, it can only be used for certain foods because the government is apparently concerned about the nutritional intake of those families. Apparently it is OK to mandate healthy choices food for a pregnant woman or very young family but not for other people.

[justamouse]

I used to look down on people on foodstamps too. I'm ashamed of it now.

I'm a mother of 3, with a masters degree, and a husband with Ph.D. and now we're on food stamps. We're doing the best we can, and we're looking for a job, and we live very simply. We get just over 200 dollars a month in aid. I try not to be embarassed when I swipe my foodstamp card. But I know there are people looking down on me, like I once looked down on people who are where I am now.

 

I'm glad that one day we'll have a job and be able to return what we've been afforded. And that these food stamps have filled the gap when we were in a bad way, so someday we can, in turn, help others.

 

I have learned a thing or two about humility, I can tell you.

 

T.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Don't be embarrassed. I've been on WIC, Food Stamps. I've worked two jobs back to back and shuffled my kid around to do it, come home at 10 pm, gone shopping, slept 6 hours and started over again the next day. I happily pay my taxes now, knowing that I'm helping someone through the struggle.

 

It's just for a season, it will turn around. Keep hope. :grouphug:

[Joanne]

I often think the same thing. I don't think it is a bad idea to encourage people to eat a balanced, healthy diet. I definitely do so when I am stretching my own food budget, and I think people receiving food stamps should at least be educated on how to do the same.

 

When people receive WIC, it can only be used for certain foods because the government is apparently concerned about the nutritional intake of those families. Apparently it is OK to mandate healthy choices food for a pregnant woman or very young family but not for other people.

 

Sometimes, for some families, volume and simply eating gives way to healthy. A case could even be made for embracing quick and convenient over "healthy" because of the stress, time and cost of so-called healthy.

 

Whose standard of "balanced and healthy" rules? The WIC program is terribly flawed and debatable in terms of "healthy". I consider the program helpful, yes. But healthy? Nope.

 

How is it that being impoverished, in need, unemployed, or poor should also come with the indignity of having the government decide what we should eat? Trust me, being poor/below the poverty level carries enough indignity.

 

About the bold, the assumption that food stamp recipients 1) don't know and 2) should all be on the same program as some arbitrary standard is insulting.

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

I guess the reason people make judgements is because there are people who really abuse the system. I honestly think that most people could Lower their grocery bill if they were willing to change things and cut out treats.

 

I have an aquaintance that abuses the system big time, it is hard to see that. Her husband was drunk driving on a motorcycle on a night when it was sleeting, hit a mailbox, and was paralyzed 5 years ago. At the time she was pregnant with their 3rd child and a stay at home mom. Her mother also lives with them. She refused to get a job because she was angry. He refuses to get a job because he feels sorry for himself, but he drives around town and takes care of himself without help. The grandmother does all the childcare, cooking, cleaning, and also has a part time job. They are on Disability, food stamps, medicaid and WIC. They receive more Money a month than my dh makes as a Firefighter!! And yet they waste their money and go cry to people about their hardships, and people keep giving them more money! I do not see why they cannot survive on $700 a month in grocery money. I don't see how they cannot pay their bills while being given $3200 a month. Their cars were given to them and their mortgage was also paid off by donations. And yet she will call me to ask for food because they don't have any, and then in the next breath tell me about the new curriculum she just bought for their child.

[Joanne]

I guess the reason people make judgements is because there are people who really abuse the system. I honestly think that most people could Lower their grocery bill if they were willing to change things and cut out treats.

 

I have an aquaintance that abuses the system big time, it is hard to see that. Her husband was drunk driving on a motorcycle on a night when it was sleeting, hit a mailbox, and was paralyzed 5 years ago. At the time she was pregnant with their 3rd child and a stay at home mom. Her mother also lives with them. She refused to get a job because she was angry. He refuses to get a job because he feels sorry for himself, but he drives around town and takes care of himself without help. The grandmother does all the childcare, cooking, cleaning, and also has a part time job. They are on Disability, food stamps, medicaid and WIC. They receive more Money a month than my dh makes as a Firefighter!! And yet they waste their money and go cry to people about their hardships, and people keep giving them more money! I do not see why they cannot survive on $700 a month in grocery money. I don't see how they cannot pay their bills while being given $3200 a month. Their cars were given to them and their mortgage was also paid off by donations. And yet she will call me to ask for food because they don't have any, and then in the next breath tell me about the new curriculum she just bought for their child.

 

Before I qualified for assistance, and before I had to stand in the lines at Department Of Human Services offices, before I experienced the system, I believed that the abuse of the system was the norm.

 

I don't believe that anymore. I believe that most people who need and qualify for help due in fact need and qualify for help. I don't believe that most, many or the majority abuse the system at all.

 

My perspective changed when my life experience changed. It's been a humbling experience.

 

Joanne, who has purchased her fair share of frozen pizza and steak with food stamps

[Rebel]

I'm right there with you Joanne. KJ and I have been on food stamps since my divorce and me returning to school. Frozen pizza is a staple for hungry college boys.

[TravelingChris]

ONe of the PP posted the USDA website for how much food should cost for a family. Now we are not on Food Stamps nor WIC. We aren't low income and I haven't had to watch my food spending for at least 7 years and probably more like 11years. So I started off by thinking I have a liberal spending budget since I am not doing anything particular to economise except that I don't like paying high prices. But we are not eating beans and rice, nor mac n cheese and chicken nuggets. (Two of my kids occasionally eat mac n Cheese for lunch:001_smile:). I was surprised by the amount of money they expected us to spend. It was way,way more than I did. THen I went to the moderate amount and that was still too much. So I tried the low budget amount and that was right around what I have spent the last seven weeks when I have been not very mobile recovering from a broken leg. Normally I don't even spend that.

 

Now what do we eat for this low spending- meat or fish almost every day for dinner (we occasionally have a meatless entree),pasta, potatoes or rice or other starch, vegetables, fruits, cereals, milk, juices, yogurts, cheese, cold cuts, salad fixings, eggs, cookies, bread, coffee, etc. I don't know why my spending is so low since I have two teenagers, one young adult male, and two adults. No one is starving and no one is malnourished. I just don't get it how the costs could be so high. I mean I do buy things like shrimp and steaks. I don't buy one steak per person, unless they are very small. I tend to allow about a quarter pound of meat per person.

[MSNative]

Sometimes, for some families, volume and simply eating gives way to healthy. A case could even be made for embracing quick and convenient over "healthy" because of the stress, time and cost of so-called healthy.

 

Whose standard of "balanced and healthy" rules? The WIC program is terribly flawed and debatable in terms of "healthy". I consider the program helpful, yes. But healthy? Nope.

 

How is it that being impoverished, in need, unemployed, or poor should also come with the indignity of having the government decide what we should eat? Trust me, being poor/below the poverty level carries enough indignity.

 

About the bold, the assumption that food stamp recipients 1) don't know and 2) should all be on the same program as some arbitrary standard is insulting.

 

I find it interesting that there are numerous threads on the boards about how to stretch a grocery dollar to provide healthy meals for families, yet some people think that food stamp recipients wouldn't be interested in that. I'm pretty sure they'd like their kids to eat healthy foods. Plus, this whole debate started out with a story about people running out of money for food at the end of the month. Frozen pizza sure is easy, but it's not cheap. And while, yes, healthy food is usually more labor intensive, usually it just involves some preplanning. Trust me, my husband and I both work 2 jobs and we have to plan and coordinate schedules pretty carefully. However, we make it work because we want to stay on budget and feed our kids nutritious meals. We've read tons of books and websites to learn tricks and tips to make healthy foods fit in our busy lives. Suggesting that people on food stamps may want to learn about healthier, possibly cheaper options that would help them stretch their dollars and tricks to fit it in their schedule doesn't seem offensive to me, but that suggestion seems to have offended many on this thread. Not sure why.

[Impish]

From a completely different perspective:

I kinda envy the foodstamps, WIC programs that you have in the States.

 

I was a single mom, have been on welfare. My personal fave of how the program is run is when they take $x off the monthly allotment because of money (Child Tax Benefit) that came in on the 20th of the month. If I remember right, at one time I received $180. :001_huh: Factor in the monthly bus pass to work ($75) and I had $105 to get groceries, etc until the 20th. Foodstamps would have been an incredible thing for me.

[Delighted3]

I was on food stamps about 20 years ago when it was the fake dollars. We were also on WIC and we ate well during that time, but we only had a family of 4 and our children were small.

 

I don't think suggesting that food stamps be given out on a bi-weekly basis is in any way demeaning to someone. My husband only gets paid once a month on the last Fri. of the month and so sometimes it can be 5 weeks between pay checks. We have lived this way for 10 years and I often wish I could get my grocery money bi-monthly instead. I don't think it is a statement about someones intelligence or education to say it is easier to budget for groceries for 2 weeks than it is for a month.

JMO,

Joy

[Joanne]

I find it interesting that there are numerous threads on the boards about how to stretch a grocery dollar to provide healthy meals for families, yet some people think that food stamp recipients wouldn't be interested in that. I'm pretty sure they'd like their kids to eat healthy foods. Plus, this whole debate started out with a story about people running out of money for food at the end of the month. Frozen pizza sure is easy, but it's not cheap. And while, yes, healthy food is usually more labor intensive, usually it just involves some preplanning. Trust me, my husband and I both work 2 jobs and we have to plan and coordinate schedules pretty carefully. However, we make it work because we want to stay on budget and feed our kids nutritious meals. We've read tons of books and websites to learn tricks and tips to make healthy foods fit in our busy lives. Suggesting that people on food stamps may want to learn about healthier, possibly cheaper options that would help them stretch their dollars and tricks to fit it in their schedule doesn't seem offensive to me, but that suggestion seems to have offended many on this thread. Not sure why.

 

About the bold: Actually, frozen pizza can be very cheap. And filling. Add some carrots and ranch or lettuce and cucumbers, and call it a complete meal. :001_smile:

 

About the italics: Many on foodstamps have a trade-off to consider in terms of ability to pre-plan with regard to time.

 

I'm not advocating *excess* or disinterest. I'm simply saying that in need of government services for food should not equal assumption about ability or oversight on diet style.

[6packofun]

Excellent points. Low-income families have friends over once in a while, go to potluck dinners or church events or parties where people have to bring food...they trick-or-treat, too, and might like to pass out goodies and candy.

 

The mention of 2nd and 3rd shift workers brings up another point: Many families who get food stamps still have BOTH spouses working and that's why I cringe a bit at the comments about making most food from scratch and going to stores, nearby or not, that carry fresh organic items. When a family shares one vehicle and both parents work and they also homeschool (among other activities), where is the time for grinding wheat and making homemade bread every day? LOL ;) I know that eating well doesn't *have* to be that time-consuming or expensive, but it's also not as simple for one family as it is for another.

 

I can actually understand the desire to limit sugary, unhealthy foods paid for by food stamps as they're proposing in NY (NJ?)--I have no problem paying for my own Dr. Pepper habit--but I'm not sure about how *right* it is... I'm torn on that one, mainly because I don't know how they plan to implement it. I'd be OK if they just said no soda, but they want to limit the sugar content of beverages like juices, too, and I don't know about that.

[Mejane]

I know that eating well doesn't *have* to be that time-consuming or expensive, but it's also not as simple for one family as it is for another.

 

 

 

 

Why not? The whole wheat bread is right next to the white, the "good" cereal is next to the sugary carp, and the frozen vegs are next to the frozen pizza. In the time it takes to heat up chicken nuggets in the oven, one can cook real chicken. There's not much that's cheaper, quicker or more filling than pasta. Throw in some vegs, and you have a healthful meal. I don't have an unlimited budget or a buttload of time either, but I manage to buy and cook real food.

 

Disclaimer: I have never ground wheat or baked bread in my life. ;)

[Joanne]

Why not? The whole wheat bread is right next to the white, the "good" cereal is next to the sugary carp, and the frozen vegs are next to the frozen pizza. In the time it takes to heat up chicken nuggets in the oven, one can cook real chicken. There's not much that's cheaper, quicker or more filling than pasta. Throw in some vegs, and you have a healthful meal. I don't have an unlimited budget or a buttload of time either, but I manage to buy and cook real food.

 

Disclaimer: I have never ground wheat or baked bread in my life. ;)

 

I think we are discussing different levels of healthy and cost savings. I've deliberately avoided offering my family's eating specifics in this thread, but we *do* all the above "healthy" options (with the requisite frozen pizza ;)).

 

Some of the planning and cook from scratch insensity that is suggested here as if everyone can do that is unrealistic for many people on food stamps. I think, sometimes, people assume food stamps = not working. Often (like when I was on them), I was working MORE hours, not less.

[KingM]

I'm going to come down on both sides of this issue. I'm glad there are programs to help people who are down on their luck and I think these are the hallmark of a healthy, caring society.

 

I don't, however, think that it's unhealthy to feel a bit of shame when you are on them. One's goal in life should be to become self-sufficient, to take the help when needed, but to get back on one's feet as soon as possible. It's important to recognize that food stamps and other forms of welfare come from other people's taxes, and there are people delaying their families, working second shifts, dropping out of school, and making other sacrifices because those taxes are high. We should do what we can to get off public assistance and to use it wisely, rather than look at it as a birthright or free money from the sky.

 

The whole wheat bread is right next to the white, the "good" cereal is next to the sugary carp...

 

Mmmm, sugary carp. ;)

[johnandtinagilbert]

Never be embarassed when you swipe that card. Odds are even the person ringing you up has one, too.

 

I wanted to add that in my experience, people on food stamps have the same variations in grocery shopping habits as people paying for groceries other ways. Most Americans rely too much on packaged foods, it's nothing to do with income.

I agree on both parts.

 

I often think the same thing. I don't think it is a bad idea to encourage people to eat a balanced, healthy diet. I definitely do so when I am stretching my own food budget, and I think people receiving food stamps should at least be educated on how to do the same.

 

When people receive WIC, it can only be used for certain foods because the government is apparently concerned about the nutritional intake of those families. Apparently it is OK to mandate healthy choices food for a pregnant woman or very young family but not for other people.

I also don't personally find WIC to be super healthy. I am, however thankful that FL has instituted fresh food and whole wheat bread into the WIC mix. I this will encourage those who may not be providing Fresh veggies/fruits to their children to do so.

 

I see it like this: if a person is interested in feeding their children with fresh, whole foods they will. There are so many opportunities for FREE materials in gov't offices and libraries, that any person with the desire to learn how, will. Those who are not interested won't and it doesn't matter if they receive foodstamps or not.

 

For example, a well off friend posted a picture of all the groceries she bought and her excitement over sales and coupons. Her picture included Nothing, nothing at all fresh. Everything was packaged, frozen and tons of high fructose corn syrup. So what. That's her decision and those are her kids. I also shop with someone on food stamps (I drive her to the store) and her cart is filled with the same kinds of items, just generic brands so she can stretch her dollars. So what. That's her decision and those are her kids. My point, what some call abuse, others call preference.

 

Do I think the systems are abused...absolutely. I've had this conversation before on this board (more shrimp and steak :lol:) and my receipt of benefits, in fact, exposed me to the abuse, as well as moving from yuppy life to a poverty stricken one. Joanne's mileage varies and yet her experience holds something in common with mine, poverty doesn't always mean ignorance. I however, would add, that imho, life long poverty has a better chance of leading to ignorance than does newly found poverty. Having said such, I refer back to my bolded statements. In every kind of gov't office I've visited, brochures abound and the information on how to live well and healthy is available to all. YMMV.

[Mejane]

I see it like this: if a person is interested in feeding their children with fresh, whole foods they will. There are so many opportunities for FREE materials in gov't offices and libraries, that any person with the desire to learn how, will. Those who are not interested won't and it doesn't matter if they receive foodstamps or not.

 

 

 

Word.

[unsinkable]

Word.

 

Wordy McWordster.

[jazzyfizzle]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Don't be embarrassed. I've been on WIC, Food Stamps. I've worked two jobs back to back and shuffled my kid around to do it, come home at 10 pm, gone shopping, slept 6 hours and started over again the next day. I happily pay my taxes now, knowing that I'm helping someone through the struggle.

 

It's just for a season, it will turn around. Keep hope. :grouphug:

 

 

 

 

I'll second that. ;) :grouphug:

[Maria from IN]

I haven't read all the replies, but a couple of years ago when my son and I were on food stamps, we received $168 a month for the 2 of us. That's $42 a week...$21 dollars a week for one of us...$3 a day.

 

I don't know about those other people, but it's pretty darned difficult to feed yourself on $3 a day, especially when you're allergic to 6 different grains. For me, a loaf of bread is $4.79. Lunch meat is $2.50 (on sale). Canola mayonnaise is $5.79. You're talking 13 bucks for 7 sandwiches, if you're lucky. I didn't even think about buying produce with it...if the price wasn't too high, it may go bad before I had time to use it! We ate a lot of rice and hamburger, and our health suffered.

 

I realize there are cheaper options out there, but when you're going to grad school full time, raising and homeschooling a teenager, and trying to complete an internship, it's hard to find the time to cook. For me, the above options are convenience food. I can see even double income families having trouble just finding the time to cook cheap processed stuff out of a box.

[Ravin]

When a family shares one vehicle and both parents work and they also homeschool (among other activities), where is the time for grinding wheat and making homemade bread every day?

 

I probably could make the time...I actually do grind wheat for pancakes once a week or so. But why, when I can go to the break outlet and get .50 and dollar loaves of organic, whole grain bread? If it was more cost effective, my bread machine would get a regular workout. I can get the ready-made bread cheaper than the raw materials.

 

I also don't personally find WIC to be super healthy. I am, however thankful that FL has instituted fresh food and whole wheat bread into the WIC mix. I this will encourage those who may not be providing Fresh veggies/fruits to their children to do so.

 

I see it like this: if a person is interested in feeding their children with fresh, whole foods they will. There are so many opportunities for FREE materials in gov't offices and libraries, that any person with the desire to learn how, will. Those who are not interested won't and it doesn't matter if they receive foodstamps or not.

In every kind of gov't office I've visited, brochures abound and the information on how to live well and healthy is available to all. YMMV.

 

The changes to WIC are across the board and come from the federal level, more or less. They instituted alternatives to milk (you can request soymilk, tofu, or goat's milk instead), added the whole grain bread/rice/tortillas, added the fresh fruits/veggies, and reduced the amount of juice, eggs, and cheese while still offering them.

But you're right that if people aren't interested, a handout won't change habits. I work in the cash office at Walmart, so I see ALL the WIC checks that come through our store in a day. I've lost track of how many of the fruit/veggie checks, which are issued for $5 or $6 get used for $1 and change or other amount less than half their potential value, because the person just grabbed one or 2 items (bananas, usually). I always ad-match on the fruits/veggies and STRETCH those checks as far as I possibly can, and make sure I have a few cents to pay over, so I can use the full value.

 

Most people can't be bothered.

[tex-mex]

Before I qualified for assistance, and before I had to stand in the lines at Department Of Human Services offices, before I experienced the system, I believed that the abuse of the system was the norm.

 

I don't believe that anymore. I believe that most people who need and qualify for help due in fact need and qualify for help. I don't believe that most, many or the majority abuse the system at all.

 

My perspective changed when my life experience changed. It's been a humbling experience.

 

Joanne, who has purchased her fair share of frozen pizza and steak with food stamps

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[johnandtinagilbert]

Word.

:D

 

Wordy McWordster.

:D

 

I probably could make the time...I actually do grind wheat for pancakes once a week or so. But why, when I can go to the break outlet and get .50 and dollar loaves of organic, whole grain bread? If it was more cost effective, my bread machine would get a regular workout. I can get the ready-made bread cheaper than the raw materials.

 

 

 

The changes to WIC are across the board and come from the federal level, more or less. They instituted alternatives to milk (you can request soymilk, tofu, or goat's milk instead), added the whole grain bread/rice/tortillas, added the fresh fruits/veggies, and reduced the amount of juice, eggs, and cheese while still offering them.

But you're right that if people aren't interested, a handout won't change habits. I work in the cash office at Walmart, so I see ALL the WIC checks that come through our store in a day. I've lost track of how many of the fruit/veggie checks, which are issued for $5 or $6 get used for $1 and change or other amount less than half their potential value, because the person just grabbed one or 2 items (bananas, usually). I always ad-match on the fruits/veggies and STRETCH those checks as far as I possibly can, and make sure I have a few cents to pay over, so I can use the full value.

 

Most people can't be bothered.

That's too bad, really. I wonder if they'll ever get WIC on a card somehow, like ebt to avoid this type of fraud. And I'm glad to know the changes are across the board.

[Mergath]

Whose standard of "balanced and healthy" rules? The WIC program is terribly flawed and debatable in terms of "healthy". I consider the program helpful, yes. But healthy? Nope.

 

Oh god, I still have nightmares about the WIC "nutritionist." We received it up until my dd was around two, and we kept dd on a vegetarian diet from the start of solids up until, oh, maybe eighteen months, simply because I didn't see the need for her to eat meat right away. I've done more research than the average joe on nutrition, and her diet was healthier than most adults. Her baby food was all made at home, and when she started real food, she ate an amazing variety. Lentils and avocados are still two of her favorite foods.

 

The WIC nutritionist, however, yelled at me every single time I had to go in for our appointments. Meat, meat, meat. That was all I heard. Dd needed meat at lunch and dinner, every day, or she'd never be healthy. She'd cut me off if I didn't start feeding her meat. Never mind that dd's ped said after he checked her blood at one checkup that she had the best iron levels he'd ever seen in a toddler. Nope, she must have meat, or I was neglecting her.

 

Aaargh. To get back to the general topic, we receive foodstamps now because dh just cannot find a job- he's been looking for a year now- and the idea that because I'm on assistance I need nutrition classes to eat well is, frankly, insulting. I am college educated. I've read probably twenty books on nutrition, just for my own knowledge. Couple that with the fact that the people the gov't appoint to tell us what to eat seem to be idiots, and I'd rather choose myself what I eat.

 

We spend $450 a month for the three of us, and let me tell you, it doesn't go far. Whoever said that preparing food from scratch is so much cheaper than processed convenience food obviously hasn't shopped in Minnesota. Produce is outrageously expensive. Hamburger helper is dirt cheap. We eat healthy, and buy certain things, such as milk, organically. The money doesn't go very far, and I am a fairly good cook, if I may say so. I do make bread from scratch, and almost everything else.

[Ravin]

:D

 

:D

 

That's too bad, really. I wonder if they'll ever get WIC on a card somehow, like ebt to avoid this type of fraud. And I'm glad to know the changes are across the board.

 

Actually, it isn't fraud to not use the full amount; the check just goes through for less, the program pays out less. I just don't know why go to all the trouble if you're not going to use it!

 

The WIC nutritionist, however, yelled at me every single time I had to go in for our appointments. Meat, meat, meat. That was all I heard. Dd needed meat at lunch and dinner, every day, or she'd never be healthy. She'd cut me off if I didn't start feeding her meat. Never mind that dd's ped said after he checked her blood at one checkup that she had the best iron levels he'd ever seen in a toddler. Nope, she must have meat, or I was neglecting her.

 

Wow. Just...wow.

 

I went to one nutrition class where I kept asking annoying questions like, "But what about avocados", and "Don't kids need healthy fats to grow their brains?" Oddly, they stopped having me attend nutrition classes after that...I had a "private consultation" instead.

 

We were veg when DD was little, and once it was clear I knew what I was doing nutrition wise (aka, I knew a protein from a starch, etc.), they just checked the little "risk factor" box and left it at that.

[MamaBirdX7]

Food stamps cost tax payers a lot less money than public education.

[Ravin]

:D

 

I wonder if they'll ever get WIC on a card somehow, like ebt to avoid this type of fraud. And I'm glad to know the changes are across the board.

 

Ooh, I forgot to mention last night, that Texas at least has had WIC on a smartchip system for a couple of years now. Instead of the checks, the entire package is stored on a smartchip on the front of the same cards issued for food stamps. When you go to buy your WIC food, the items are deducted from the chip. You can get as much or as little of the package as you want/need at the time. So no more having to go find the peanut butter, etc. when all you need that trip is the gallon of milk, you can still get it later. It is SO MUCH more convenient. There's a PIN attached, just like with debit, so it's more secure and harder to steal. And it's less hassle at checkout from both sides of the counter.

[RoughCollie]

In every kind of gov't office I've visited, brochures abound and the information on how to live well and healthy is available to all. YMMV.

 

It costs a lot, at least in the NE U.S., to eat a truly healthy diet which consists of complex carbohydrates, fruits, vegetables in abundance, fish and lean meats, and low fat dairy products.

 

The government's thrifty food plan, which was designed for food stamps recipients, is impossible to follow and keep within the money they say it will cost, which is current through August 2010, if a family buys healthy food.

 

I followed their low lost food plan a couple of weeks ago, carefully figured out to the ounce for each type of food in their market basket, and it cost me $300. It would have been close to $400 for one week's food for my family if I had not been super-careful to get the best value for my dollar. It took me several hours to come up with a grocery list that exactly followed the food plans. If I were not well-educated, there is no way I could have done this, because it required converting each of the market basket items from pounds to ounces and then determining what I could buy by packaging sizes (x oz. of bread in a loaf, x oz. of tomatoes in a can) so I could make a list. My list exactly followed the market basket in the food plan at the lowest cost possible for healthy food. I also consulted the food pyramid website for guidance on serving sizes in each group by age/gender, and determined what they would consist of for a week for each person in my family. The low cost food plan did not supply enough food in each group to meet those government guidelines, and the thrifty plan for food stampers supplied even less.

 

The thrifty food plan would allow my family to spend $200 a week, the low cost $268, the moderate cost $333, and the liberal $391.

 

There is no way I could have bought the food the USDA has in their market basket for the low cost plan for less than $300. After carefully analyzing the market baskets for each plan, I determined that the differences are basically connected to how healthy the food is that the person buys. The more one spends, the healthier their food purchases can be and the easier they can meet calorie consumption guidelines.

 

Cutting out meat won't help much, unless one routinely eats expensive cuts of meat or eats a lot more meat than is required by the USDA's food pyramid based on their recommendations for each gender/age group. I've analyzed my grocery bill by food group for years, and I spend three times more for fruits and vegetables than I do for meat, even though we eat only cheap cuts of meat, and in carefully managed amounts. Fish? Forget it. Fish is too expensive for my budget, except for tuna, which is $3.05 per pound, canned.

 

I analyzed the cost, per pound, of everything I bought. I bought the cheapest healthy food available, and did not buy any organic food.

 

The cheapest dairy product is milk, the most expensive is cheese (I bought store brand cheddar).

 

Apples, bananas, and OJ are the cheapest fruits I bought, even though OJ costs $7.49 a gallon. Strawberries and grapes were the most expensive.

 

The cheapest whole grains were whole wheat flour, whole grain bread (2-3 gr fiber per slice; 1/2 price sale), and brown rice. The most expensive were whole grain English muffins and oatmeal (Quaker steel cut).

 

The cheapest veggies were canned tomatoes (bought on sale), cucumbers, and iceberg lettuce. The most expensive were romaine lettuce, fresh beets, and celery.

 

The cheapest protein sources were eggs, whole chicken, and peanut butter. Beans are in the vegetable group, and cost twice as much as iceberg lettuce. Bacon and canned tuna were the most expensive, as both cost over $3 a pound. Until this year, I bought Oscar-Meyer bacon when it went on sale for $2.50 a pound. Now it is never on sale and costs nearly $7 a pound. This bacon was store brand and on sale for $4.19 a pound; I bought it for a treat.

 

In the "other" category, white sugar, catsup, and brown sugar were the cheapest. Equal, instant coffee, and olive oil were the most expensive.

 

Food stamps are supposed to supplement a family's grocery budget. To meet the qualifications for getting food stamps, at least in MA and PA, a family has to have a very, very low income, and supply proof of that income to the government. I don't see how a family who makes the highest income allowed can support themselves at all, unless they are also getting housing and medical care from the government.

 

They sure can't eat healthily on the amounts allotted for food stamps in many areas of the U.S. There is a big disconnect between what the government says is required for a healthy diet and what they supply in food stamps. Coupons rarely help because they are for, by and large, unhealthy foods. I can't find them for the healthy foods I buy for my family -- and I have searched high and low for coupons I can use.

 

What initially interested me in this topic was the unhealthy content of lunches supplied by many (if not most) school lunch programs. I compared school lunch menus in affluent school districts and average school districts. Not surprisingly, the average school district's students eat a much less healthy diet than the students from affluent districts do. This does not make sense to me. I understand why it happens, but I don't think it is right. If a family qualifies for food stamps, their children qualify for the free lunch program. What a lunch! Those kids are eating crap unless they happen to live in an affluent school district, which most do not.

Edited October 9, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Donna A.]

I find your research interesting and helpful, and it confirms to me why WE have struggled so much for so long trying to eat healthy and balanced on my dh's income. (And he has a Master's degree. ;) ) I'm :001_huh: and completely frustrated with the grocery shopping and meal planning process for the very reasons you explained.

 

That said, I do take offense at your implication that only "well-educated" people can do what you did with the research. I'm not "well-educated" (per the standards of many on this board), and yet I could do the same research if I wanted to spend the time doing it. As you acknowledged, it is very time consuming, and that's why I haven't done it.... but that has nothing to do with my level of education.

 

I agree about the variance in public school lunches, though. The government is the one who feeds the kids in the poor neighborhoods processed garbage for their "free lunch", and then turns around and blames the poor and uneducated for the obesity problem in this country. The government is also the one who sets the standard for processed garbage and approves it for the eating! It's no wonder that the "well-educated" nutritionists at the WIC offices seem offended when someone questions their definition of nutrition. :glare:

 

The fact is (and this is not directed at you, RoughCollie), if a person paying with food stamps fills their cart with chips and hamburger helper, they're going to be criticized. If a person paying with food stamps fills their cart with healthy fish and veggies and organic staples, they're going to be criticized. There are some who will criticize people on food stamps no matter what they eat. One's definition of "abuse of the system" is subjective. This one cries "they need to be educated" or "they need to make better food choices" and calls it abuse if they don't/aren't. That one cries "I can't feed MY family that well!" and calls it abuse.

 

I think that's a perception problem, not an education problem. :tongue_smilie:

 

It costs a lot, at least in the NE U.S., to eat a truly healthy diet which consists of complex carbohydrates, fruits, vegetables in abundance, fish and lean meats, and low fat dairy products.

 

The government's thrifty food plan, which was designed for food stamps recipients, is impossible to follow and keep within the money they say it will cost, which is current through August 2010, if a family buys healthy food.

 

I followed their low lost food plan a couple of weeks ago, carefully figured out to the ounce for each type of food in their market basket, and it cost me $300. It would have been close to $400 for one week's food for my family if I had not been super-careful to get the best value for my dollar. It took me several hours to come up with a grocery list that exactly followed the food plans. If I were not well-educated, there is no way I could have done this, because it required converting each of the market basket items from pounds to ounces and then determining what I could buy by packaging sizes (x oz. of bread in a loaf, x oz. of tomatoes in a can) so I could make a list. My list exactly followed the market basket in the food plan at the lowest cost possible for healthy food. I also consulted the food pyramid website for guidance on serving sizes in each group by age/gender, and determined what they would consist of for a week for each person in my family. The low cost food plan did not supply enough food in each group to meet those government guidelines, and the thrifty plan for food stampers supplied even less.

 

The thrifty food plan would allow my family to spend $200 a week, the low cost $268, the moderate cost $333, and the liberal $391.

 

There is no way I could have bought the food the USDA has in their market basket for the low cost plan for less than $300. After carefully analyzing the market baskets for each plan, I determined that the differences are basically connected to how healthy the food is that the person buys. The more one spends, the healthier their food purchases can be and the easier they can meet calorie consumption guidelines.

 

Cutting out meat won't help much, unless one routinely eats expensive cuts of meat or eats a lot more meat than is required by the USDA's food pyramid based on their recommendations for each gender/age group. I've analyzed my grocery bill by food group for years, and I spend three times more for fruits and vegetables than I do for meat, even though we eat only cheap cuts of meat, and in carefully managed amounts. Fish? Forget it. Fish is too expensive for my budget, except for tuna, which is $3.05 per pound, canned.

 

I analyzed the cost, per pound, of everything I bought. I bought the cheapest healthy food available, and did not buy any organic food.

 

The cheapest dairy product is milk, the most expensive is cheese (I bought store brand cheddar).

 

Apples, bananas, and OJ are the cheapest fruits I bought, even though OJ costs $7.49 a gallon. Strawberries and grapes were the most expensive.

 

The cheapest whole grains were whole wheat flour, whole grain bread (2-3 gr fiber per slice; 1/2 price sale), and brown rice. The most expensive were whole grain English muffins and oatmeal (Quaker steel cut).

 

The cheapest veggies were canned tomatoes (bought on sale), cucumbers, and iceberg lettuce. The most expensive were romaine lettuce, fresh beets, and celery.

 

The cheapest protein sources were eggs, whole chicken, and peanut butter. Beans are in the vegetable group, and cost twice as much as iceberg lettuce. Bacon and canned tuna were the most expensive, as both cost over $3 a pound. Until this year, I bought Oscar-Meyer bacon when it went on sale for $2.50 a pound. Now it is never on sale and costs nearly $7 a pound. This bacon was store brand and on sale for $4.19 a pound; I bought it for a treat.

 

In the "other" category, white sugar, catsup, and brown sugar were the cheapest. Equal, instant coffee, and olive oil were the most expensive.

 

Food stamps are supposed to supplement a family's grocery budget. To meet the qualifications for getting food stamps, at least in MA and PA, a family has to have a very, very low income, and supply proof of that income to the government. I don't see how a family who makes the highest income allowed can support themselves at all, unless they are also getting housing and medical care from the government.

 

They sure can't eat healthily on the amounts allotted for food stamps in many areas of the U.S. There is a big disconnect between what the government says is required for a healthy diet and what they supply in food stamps. Coupons rarely help because they are for, by and large, unhealthy foods. I can't find them for the healthy foods I buy for my family -- and I have searched high and low for coupons I can use.

 

What initially interested me in this topic was the unhealthy content of lunches supplied by many (if not most) school lunch programs. I compared school lunch menus in affluent school districts and average school districts. Not surprisingly, the average school district's students eat a much less healthy diet than the students from affluent districts do. This does not make sense to me. I understand why it happens, but I don't think it is right. If a family qualifies for food stamps, their children qualify for the free lunch program. What a lunch! Those kids are eating crap unless they happen to live in an affluent school district, which most do not.

[TXMomof4]

Trying to make someone else fit into your (or someone else's) defiintion of "good sense/the right thing" without being able to understand THEIR circumstance IS expecting too much.

 

Other pp's have attempted to explain other circumstances, but we always come back to "common sense" and "steak and shrimp". :glare:

 

Just FYI - condemning someone's statements without being aware of THEIR circumstances is pretty irritating as well.

 

Common sense says that if you're going to feed your children, some thought has to be given to the nutritional value of the food. It isn't an indictment of someone's financial status, educational status, etc. It is a fact that kids need more than Fruity Pebbles to be healthy. Cheerios would obviously be a better choice. Wheat bread instead of white. Peanut butter instead of hot dogs. A tub of yogurt instead of ice cream. None of those are time consuming, expensive changes. It is common sense.

 

Heaven knows I'm all for the chocolate chip cookie now and then, but the amount of crap I've seen my sister buy for her kids is ridiculous. If you wouldn't allow your own kids to eat Little Debbie snacks for breakfast, why is it fine for someone who is low income because we dare not question their 'right' to spend money on whatever they want. It isn't about the food stamps. Being on food stamps doesn't change the responsibility of a parent to make an attempt to feed their children something resembling nutritious. In fact, I would argue that lowering the expectations of responsiblity (to some degree) in food choices for those on food stamps is even more condescending and demeaning.

[Renee in NC]

Just FYI - condemning someone's statements without being aware of THEIR circumstances is pretty irritating as well.

 

Common sense says that if you're going to feed your children, some thought has to be given to the nutritional value of the food. It isn't an indictment of someone's financial status, educational status, etc. It is a fact that kids need more than Fruity Pebbles to be healthy. Cheerios would obviously be a better choice. Wheat bread instead of white. Peanut butter instead of hot dogs. A tub of yogurt instead of ice cream. None of those are time consuming, expensive changes. It is common sense.

 

Heaven knows I'm all for the chocolate chip cookie now and then, but the amount of crap I've seen my sister buy for her kids is ridiculous. If you wouldn't allow your own kids to eat Little Debbie snacks for breakfast, why is it fine for someone who is low income because we dare not question their 'right' to spend money on whatever they want. It isn't about the food stamps. Being on food stamps doesn't change the responsibility of a parent to make an attempt to feed their children something resembling nutritious. In fact, I would argue that lowering the expectations of responsiblity (to some degree) in food choices for those on food stamps is even more condescending and demeaning.

 

I agree with the bolded statements, but it isn't about food stamps. I imagine that the cross section of food stamp recipients, especially now, looks much like a cross section of the general public. Your sister is just as likely to feed her kids junk if she were spending her own money instead of food stamps.

 

I know that some people abuse the system. I imagine that there are many people who have friends and family on food stamps that don't even know they are. Generally it isn't something you broadcast to the general public (aside from message boards, of course.:tongue_smilie:)

 

Our nutrition would be worse if the food stamp items were more dictated. I imagine that the USDA would follow their own food pyramid, which is inherently flawed. The bottom of our family's food pyramid is fruits and vegetables, then protein sources, then grains/dairy (Pretty much the opposite of theirs!)

 

We don't get anywhere near enough to buy steak and shrimp and neither do most of the families I know. I hope every single time I use that food stamp card that my family's income will rise enough in the future that we won't need them anymore (and we'll be paying taxes!) You can't paint every food stamp recipient with the same brush. And you can't make it fit your ideal.

 

I don't have a problem with regulating some things. Can't buy soda? Fine. Can't buy candy? Okay. Can't by cakes and cookies? Well, then you need to ban most breakfast cereals, poptarts, kid-marketed snacks, and other sweet items. Ban white bread? You'll have to ban a lot of other things that are just as bad - white pasta, cereal (again), and really most other grain products.

 

The point is, you can't do it - it won't work. Look at WIC - the food given by the vouchers is less dictated by nutrition and more dictated by which lobbiest works the hardest. We don't get WIC because, other than milk, eggs, and beans, it isn't necessary for good nutrition.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Renee in FL

[Joanne]

I don't, however, think that it's unhealthy to feel a bit of shame when you are on them. One's goal in life should be to become self-sufficient, to take the help when needed, but to get back on one's feet as soon as possible. It's important to recognize that food stamps and other forms of welfare come from other people's taxes, and there are people delaying their families, working second shifts, dropping out of school, and making other sacrifices because those taxes are high. We should do what we can to get off public assistance and to use it wisely, rather than look at it as a birthright or free money from the sky.

 

 

 

 

 

The juxtaposition in the above paragraph of people needing the system and people "making it a birthright" perpetuates the pervasive idea that most people are on food stamps too long and abuse the system. I've honestly come to see the "forever relying on the system" percentage as a myth or urban legend.

 

Feel shame? Really? When I qualified, it was not unhealthy to feel shame? I had 3 kids and was recently divorced from an abusive adulterer and *I* was supposed to feel shame?

 

I'm not sure the existential shame motivates people. Character does. That's why I have worked no less than 2 jobs throughout these past 4-5 years.

 

And many people on Food Stamps also " are people delaying their families, working second shifts, dropping out of school, and making other sacrifices".

[RoughCollie]

That said, I do take offense at your implication that only "well-educated" people can do what you did with the research.

 

Start here: Being well-educated enough to do the research and analysis I did has nothing to do with how much formal education a person has. As a matter of fact, I could have done this with only a 9th grade education at age 14, given that I was already well-educated enough to do it at that point, and intelligent enough to figure out how to do it.

Edited October 9, 2010 by RoughCollie

[RoughCollie]

Does anyone know how people abuse the system and get food stamps illegally? Of course, those who earn unreported income by doing illegal activities can do so. What about the rest?

[Mejane]

Does anyone know how people abuse the system and get food stamps illegally?

 

Some people don't accurately report living conditions: a boyfriend with a job living in the home, for instance.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Mejane

[kalanamak]

 

Feel shame? Really? When I qualified, it was not unhealthy to feel shame? I had 3 kids and was recently divorced from an abusive adulterer and *I* was supposed to feel shame?

 

 

"Not unhealthy to feel shame" is not the same as "you were supposed to feel shame", at least in my reading of it. I use double negatives to muffle a statement, like wrapping the head of the hammer in flannel before tapping something that will scratch. :001_smile:

[Joanne]

Does anyone know how people abuse the system and get food stamps illegally? Of course, those who earn unreported income by doing illegal activities can do so. What about the rest?

 

Not reporting everyone who has an income in your home. I had a daycare client who got a "paper divorce" from one of her children's fathers so that they didn't have to report his income.

[Joanne]

"Not unhealthy to feel shame" is not the same as "you were supposed to feel shame", at least in my reading of it. I use double negatives to muffle a statement, like wrapping the head of the hammer in flannel before tapping something that will scratch. :001_smile:

 

In context of the whole paragraph, the idea that it's not unhealthy to feel shame reinforces stereotypes and ideas that I think are not accurate or are harmful.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Actually, it isn't fraud to not use the full amount; the check just goes through for less, the program pays out less. I just don't know why go to all the trouble if you're not going to use it! I thought you meant they got cash back as change.

 

I went to one nutrition class where I kept asking annoying questions like, "But what about avocados", and "Don't kids need healthy fats to grow their brains?" Oddly, they stopped having me attend nutrition classes after that...I had a "private consultation" instead. :lol: I think simply being educated has annoyed a few state workers I've come across.

 

We were veg when DD was little, and once it was clear I knew what I was doing nutrition wise (aka, I knew a protein from a starch, etc.), they just checked the little "risk factor" box and left it at that.

 

Ooh, I forgot to mention last night, that Texas at least has had WIC on a smartchip system for a couple of years now. Instead of the checks, the entire package is stored on a smartchip on the front of the same cards issued for food stamps. When you go to buy your WIC food, the items are deducted from the chip. You can get as much or as little of the package as you want/need at the time. So no more having to go find the peanut butter, etc. when all you need that trip is the gallon of milk, you can still get it later. It is SO MUCH more convenient. There's a PIN attached, just like with debit, so it's more secure and harder to steal. And it's less hassle at checkout from both sides of the counter.

Perhaps others will follow suit. Sometimes, the common sense just falls out of gov't system and the lack of sense just carries additional burden.

 

Just FYI - condemning someone's statements without being aware of THEIR circumstances is pretty irritating as well.

 

Common sense says that if you're going to feed your children, some thought has to be given to the nutritional value of the food. It isn't an indictment of someone's financial status, educational status, etc. It is a fact that kids need more than Fruity Pebbles to be healthy. Cheerios would obviously be a better choice. Wheat bread instead of white. Peanut butter instead of hot dogs. A tub of yogurt instead of ice cream. None of those are time consuming, expensive changes. It is common sense. I would have to disagree about common sense and say that people who are willing to educate themselves will know better, some people choose either not to pay attention and others simply don't care to pay attention. In addition, "common sense" changes like shifting sand moved by every wave of science, trend, or best selling diet book.

 

Heaven knows I'm all for the chocolate chip cookie now and then, but the amount of crap I've seen my sister buy for her kids is ridiculous. If you wouldn't allow your own kids to eat Little Debbie snacks for breakfast, why is it fine for someone who is low income because we dare not question their 'right' to spend money on whatever they want. It isn't about the food stamps. Being on food stamps doesn't change the responsibility of a parent to make an attempt to feed their children something resembling nutritious. In fact, I would argue that lowering the expectations of responsiblity (to some degree) in food choices for those on food stamps is even more condescending and demeaning.

I totally agree with the second paragraph, though. The thing is, there are simply a LOT of irresponsible parents in our world and feeding their children well or learning even how to feed them doesn't even cross their minds. They buy whatever, don't introduce variety and simply take "what they're fed" via grocery stores, companies, and tv commercials. I don't think the foodstamps have a thing at all to do with it.

 

I agree with the bolded statements, but it isn't about food stamps. I imagine that the cross section of food stamp recipients, especially now, looks much like a cross section of the general public. Your sister is just as likely to feed her kids junk if she were spending her own money instead of food stamps. Agreed.

 

I know that some people abuse the system. I imagine that there are many people who have friends and family on food stamps that don't even know they are. Generally it isn't something you broadcast to the general public (aside from message boards, of course.:tongue_smilie:)

 

Our nutrition would be worse if the food stamp items were more dictated. I imagine that the USDA would follow their own food pyramid, which is inherently flawed. The bottom of our family's food pyramid is fruits and vegetables, then protein sources, then grains/dairy (Pretty much the opposite of theirs!) Ours too.

 

We don't get anywhere near enough to buy steak and shrimp and neither do most of the families I know. I hope every single time I use that food stamp card that my family's income will rise enough in the future that we won't need them anymore (and we'll be paying taxes!) You can't paint every food stamp recipient with the same brush. And you can't make it fit your ideal.

 

I don't have a problem with regulating some things. Can't buy soda? Fine. Can't buy candy? Okay. Can't by cakes and cookies? Well, then you need to ban most breakfast cereals, poptarts, kid-marketed snacks, and other sweet items. Ban white bread? You'll have to ban a lot of other things that are just as bad - white pasta, cereal (again), and really most other grain products. I agree and I shudder to think of that much gov't control. What would be next?

 

The point is, you can't do it - it won't work. Look at WIC - the food given by the vouchers is less dictated by nutrition and more dictated by which lobbiest works the hardest. We don't get WIC because, other than milk, eggs, and beans, it isn't necessary for good nutrition.

Sad, but true.

 

Does anyone know how people abuse the system and get food stamps illegally? Of course, those who earn unreported income by doing illegal activities can do so. What about the rest?

 

Some people don't accurately report living conditions: a boyfriend with a job living in the home, for instance.

:iagree: I know LOTS of that is going on! Not just boyfriends, but lots of "roommate" situations. I've seen many people receive Section 8, then their family members move in with them -- totally violates Section 8 rules.

 

Here are some more I see all the time:

 

 

• separate families receiving benefits and then living together, filing separately using false addresses.

• under the table jobs (cleaning, lawn care, servers, baby sitting)

• getting regular help from family members (which is great, but still should be reported as income)

• not reporting vehicle ownership

• changes in rent (all of the properties in our complex lowered rent expenses b/c of the economy)

• not reporting tax returns

• not reporting day labor

• claiming children that no longer live within the household

• job bounce purposefully

 

We've seen this happen again and again and again and again and ALL of those who did these things know exactly how to work around the system, falsify where necessary to get what they want out of the system.

 

I am in no way saying that is the case for everyone, particularly in the present economy, I'm answering Rough Collie's question.

[RoughCollie]

We've seen this happen again and again and again and again and ALL of those who did these things know exactly how to work around the system, falsify where necessary to get what they want out of the system.

 

They must have plenty of experience with the system. I say that because it would not have crossed my mind to do those things.

 

If my family qualified to get food stamps or other government benefits legitimately, I wouldn't hesitate to do so. The income limits are very low, and the people who fall within it definitely need the help. There are plenty of families who fall between the cracks -- they make too much money to qualify, but not enough to adequately meet their family's needs. I suspect that many of the abusers of the system fall within this group. I may be wrong; I have no experience with this at all.

Edited October 9, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Kari C in SC]

My only thought on some asking how to cut the budget is www.southersavers.com and lots of coupons. Last year, my dh was laid off. I had always been frugal, but pretty much spent what I needed or wanted on groceries. At that time about $400 to $500 a month for 4-5 people including pets and cleaning. Then the layoff. I started couponing and stocking up. Within about 2 months I was able to get to about $200 to $300 a month for a family of 4 (my oldest had moved out). Due to losing my son in May, I took the summer off from coupons - mostly. I still didn't have to buy a whole lot because I had so much stocked up. I still kept my bill under $300 without really looking for sales.

 

Quick coupon tips -

 

Print them at multiple computers if you have them. 90% of my coupons are printed. I do not get the newspaper for coupons. Sometimes I buy from ebay for something I want a lot of coupons for.

 

Publix BOGO is almost always cheaper than Walmart or generic anything. You just need to buy on sale and have it stored.

 

Cook from what is on sale - even if that is not what you are really wanting for dinner.

 

I just thought of this - I also cook lunch for 9 extra kids every Friday. Sometimes, I provide all of it. Yesterday, we did homemade waffles. Everything I used cost less than $2 because of sales and coupons. I fed 15 people for $2 because I stocked up on stuff on sale. It takes work, but if your budget is tight - it is really doable. At this point, our budget is no longer tight, but I still can't stand to pay full price for anything - so I am getting back to it.

[RoughCollie]

In context of the whole paragraph, the idea that it's not unhealthy to feel shame reinforces stereotypes and ideas that I think are not accurate or are harmful.

 

Shame destroys people.

 

Often, the circumstances that cause people to have to rely on government benefits like food stamps are those beyond their control. There are plenty of people who refuse to accept this as being a valid premise, perhaps because they believe they fully control their circumstances.

 

If we all had crystal balls and could see how our decisions and choices will play out in terms of future consequences, some of these circumstances would not occur. Bad luck, timing, location, intelligence, mental and physical illnesses, employment, and many other things I can't think of but I'm sure exist, are also factors.

 

In general, I think most people do the best they can with what they have. People are not all alike, so what is one person's best cannot be the standard for everyone else because we are not all equal in every respect. We also do not have control over many of the things we take for granted. I think this country's current economic crisis proves that.

Edited October 9, 2010 by RoughCollie

[6packofun]

Why not? The whole wheat bread is right next to the white, the "good" cereal is next to the sugary carp, and the frozen vegs are next to the frozen pizza. In the time it takes to heat up chicken nuggets in the oven, one can cook real chicken. There's not much that's cheaper, quicker or more filling than pasta. Throw in some vegs, and you have a healthful meal. I don't have an unlimited budget or a buttload of time either, but I manage to buy and cook real food.

 

Disclaimer: I have never ground wheat or baked bread in my life. ;)

 

I guess I'm thinking of the more die-hard frugal, homemade cooks then :tongue_smilie: because we do all the things you're talking about, but also throw in some convenience stuff when I simply don't have time. I *could* make homemade chicken nuggets instead of the fatty store bought ones, but I need to find a nice chunk of time to do so and right now it's not happening. That's all I meant. Throw in some picky eaters and lack of time, though, and we're not doing out best, but we do OK, IMO, even if we occasionally have Pop Tarts or Hot Pockets. lol

[Donna A.]

Start here: Being well-educated enough to do the research and analysis I did has nothing to do with how much formal education a person has. As a matter of fact, I could have done this with only a 9th grade education at age 14, given that I was already well-educated enough to do it at that point, and intelligent enough to figure out how to do it.

 

Thank you for explaining. :001_smile:

[Donna A.]

Shame destroys people.

 

Often, the circumstances that cause people to have to rely on government benefits like food stamps are those beyond their control. There are plenty of people who refuse to accept this as being a valid premise, perhaps because they believe they fully control their circumstances.

 

If we all had crystal balls and could see how our decisions and choices will play out in terms of future consequences, some of these circumstances would not occur. Bad luck, timing, location, intelligence, mental and physical illnesses, employment, and many other things I can't think of but I'm sure exist, are also factors.

 

In general, I think most people do the best they can with what they have. People are not all alike, so what is one person's best cannot be the standard for everyone else because we are not all equal in every respect. We also do not have control over many of the things we take for granted. I think this country's current economic crisis proves that.

 

THANK YOU for this post.

[RoughCollie]

Thank you for explaining. :001_smile:

 

I should have realized that a lot of people think of being well-educated in terms of having at least one college degree.

 

I don't, mostly because I have a very well-educated mother whose formal education ended with high school and a few college classes sprinkled over the years. She is a broad-spectrum autodidact. I know some people who cannot analyze and reason well who have college degrees, and some who can who have never been to college.

Edited October 9, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Donna A.]

I should have realized that a lot of people think of being well-educated in terms of having at least one college degree.

 

Yes, and that's what I thought you meant earlier. Then the generalization about who is and isn't "well-educated" bleeds over into who should or shouldn't be on food stamps (or vice versa), and, well, you have a 10-page discussion about on all the possible reasons why people on food stamps MAY choose to shop at midnight. As if no one who isn't on food stamps ever shops at midnight. ;)

 

It was a silly article, IMO. I mean, who cares? It's as if the author was implying there's something wrong with shopping at midnight and that it's symptomatic primarily of people on food stamps. How does the author KNOW that every person in that store was using food stamps, or that every car in the parking lot belonged to food stamp recipients? Goodness, I used to go shopping at 9 or 10:00 at night when my dh was in Korea simply because I was wide awake and bored, and the store was relatively quiet at that time of night. I enjoyed shopping when things were quieter and had no reason not to. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't, mostly because I have a very well-educated mother whose formal education ended with high school and a few college classes sprinkled over the years. She is a broad-spectrum autodidact. I know some people who cannot analyze and reason well who have college degrees, and some who can who have never been to college.

 

Absolutely.

[RoughCollie]

It was a silly article, IMO.

 

:iagree:

[Kari C in SC]

I was on food stamps about 20 years ago when it was the fake dollars. We were also on WIC and we ate well during that time, but we only had a family of 4 and our children were small.

 

I don't think suggesting that food stamps be given out on a bi-weekly basis is in any way demeaning to someone. My husband only gets paid once a month on the last Fri. of the month and so sometimes it can be 5 weeks between pay checks. We have lived this way for 10 years and I often wish I could get my grocery money bi-monthly instead. I don't think it is a statement about someones intelligence or education to say it is easier to budget for groceries for 2 weeks than it is for a month.

JMO,

Joy

 

This is how the military and state pay as well. On the 1st and the 15th.