Jump to content

Menu

Dr. Jay Wile- arrogant


Recommended Posts

I don't mean to offend anyone here, but I have a question and grumble at the same time.

 

We are using Apologia General Science by Wile, and we enjoy it. BUT I have recently come across Wile's blog, and quite frankly find him arrogant and rude. I was considering continuing on with his series, but honestly don't want to after reading his blog.

 

I realize maybe I should put aside personal things if the texts are good. Not sure if I can do that though.

 

Any great ideas for physical science, biology, and chemistry??? :D

 

Thanks a million.....

 

CAME BACK TO EDIT: I should not have voiced this here. I should have just said I am looking for new science. I apologize for not keeping my frustration to myself...

Edited by Denise Allen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't want to, then don't! There are a lot of good science books around. I've not read the Apologia books, although I wonder if an arrogant attitude comes across in the writing? It's not one we want our children to pick up on.

 

Could you post a link to his blog? Now I'm curious! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used Apologia for years, but I don't agree with his view on vaccinations. It was easy to overlook it in his texts. (But my, did he go on and on or what in the blog....).

 

I think there will be something to disagree with with anyone..... in fact, you don't know the views of most text authors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read his blog, but I have spoken with him at homeschool conferences, heard him speak, and have used his material for 7-8 years. I'm sorry you've come away with that impression, but I have never found him to be arrogant at all. I haven't seen that attitude in his material either, nor have I heard that complaint. If anything, I have found his material to be much less arrogant, or unnecessarily didactic, than other science material.

 

It is so easy to misinterpret the tone of informal written material such as a blog. Think of how often the tone in emails is misinterpreted. Happens to me more often than I can count!

 

If you were considering using his texts, look at them yourself before dismissing them based on your impression of his blog tone, and ask some trusted veterans their opinions of his texts. Good luck!

 

 

 

Yolanda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Wile says:

 

Because people in California are refusing the whooping cough vaccine in large numbers, whooping cough is rearing its ugly head there. Children are needlessly becoming sick and dying, and we have the misinformation spread by anti-vaccine people to thank for it.

 

He is speaking the truth. I don't respect the anti-scientific stance of his biology books, but on this point Wile is spot-on.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do have General Science.

 

It is not that I disagree with anything he has said- I am not anti-vaccine- and that is not even what got me frustrated.

 

It was not a misunderstood tone. It was his telling everyone on his blog that all scientific studies were skewed except the ones he uses and believes. He says condescending things to those on his blog- even those who respectfully disagree with him.

 

Basically, I think I know I will not continue to his his books. I may not know other others attitudes, etc., but once I find out a glaring fault- I guess I have to deal with it.

 

Now I am just looking to find some good science texts to use.

Edited by Denise Allen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any great ideas for physical science, biology, and chemistry??? :D

 

(hugs) on the frustration and all of that from the vent and how it affects things.

 

 

jr. high?

What about Rainbow Science and whatever the high school one is called?

here's a link to look for other science things

 

http://www.beginningspublishing.com/

 

some people like that when they don't want to use Wile's stuff. it's a starting place to look???? I use Wile's stuff and can't compare, but that was the other thing I would have looked at if my daughter hadn't clicked with wile's books. (I avoid blogs of authors. I don't even read SWB's blog. gasp! lol)

-crystal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally agree with your evaluation.

 

My dd17 is using his Physics book this year ONLY because we couldn't find anything better for self-teaching. It is not the best thing out there.

 

I have always had the impression that he thinks he is right about everything and those that disagree are just plain...well...stupid. You get that feel from some of his replies. Sometimes his books come across that way as well.

 

Never feel like you shouldn't voice your opinion...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know how you feel. I feel the same way about BJU-I won't use them, because I disagree with their attitude.

 

I like secular books best for science. If you're open to that we liked:

Holt Science Spectrum Physical Science

Exploring Life Biology by Campbell with DIVE Cd

Prentice Hall Chemistry from Oak Meadow with DIVE Cd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(hugs) on the frustration and all of that from the vent and how it affects things.

 

 

jr. high?

What about Rainbow Science and whatever the high school one is called?

here's a link to look for other science things

 

http://www.beginningspublishing.com/

 

some people like that when they don't want to use Wile's stuff. it's a starting place to look???? I use Wile's stuff and can't compare, but that was the other thing I would have looked at if my daughter hadn't clicked with wile's books. (I avoid blogs of authors. I don't even read SWB's blog. gasp! lol)

-crystal

 

I don't think I will be reading anymore author blogs either! lol

I will look into the link & info above. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read his blog, but I have spoken with him at homeschool conferences, heard him speak, and have used his material for 7-8 years. I'm sorry you've come away with that impression, but I have never found him to be arrogant at all. I haven't seen that attitude in his material either, nor have I heard that complaint. If anything, I have found his material to be much less arrogant, or unnecessarily didactic, than other science material.

 

It is so easy to misinterpret the tone of informal written material such as a blog. Think of how often the tone in emails is misinterpreted. Happens to me more often than I can count!

 

If you were considering using his texts, look at them yourself before dismissing them based on your impression of his blog tone, and ask some trusted veterans their opinions of his texts. Good luck!

 

 

 

Yolanda

 

:iagree: I once called Apologia to ask a question and Dr. Wile spent time with me on the phone. He was very nice and patient with me and I never got the impression that he was arrogant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never been to his blog, but I completely dropped Apologia as a science option after my children complained of feeling ridiculed for not being YE. I have absolutely no problem with people believing YE. I do have a problem with insulting insinuations toward a different theory. (which they all are.....theories)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never been to his blog, but I completely dropped Apologia as a science option after my children complained of feeling ridiculed for not being YE. I have absolutely no problem with people believing YE. I do have a problem with insulting insinuations toward a different theory. (which they all are.....theories)

 

No, some are Theories and some are not Theories.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Wile says:

 

Because people in California are refusing the whooping cough vaccine in large numbers, whooping cough is rearing its ugly head there. Children are needlessly becoming sick and dying, and we have the misinformation spread by anti-vaccine people to thank for it.

 

He is speaking the truth. I don't respect the anti-scientific stance of his biology books, but on this point Wile is spot-on.

 

Bill

 

In order to maintain "herd immunity", the community as a whole must maintain a certain percentage of vaccinated individuals. As anti-vax fear-mongering spreads, we'll see diseases killing children that we've not had to contend with for 40-50 years because of good vaccination programs. Yes. There are risks to vaccines. Don't you think those risks were weighed against the benefits of not being killed/crippled by polio, smallpox, pertussis or measles? There was a measles outbreak in California two years ago which was directly the result of unvaccinated children.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In order to maintain "herd immunity", the community as a whole must maintain a certain percentage of vaccinated individuals. As anti-vax fear-mongering spreads, we'll see diseases killing children that we've not had to contend with for 40-50 years because of good vaccination programs. Yes. There are risks to vaccines. Don't you think those risks were weighed against the benefits of not being killed/crippled by polio, smallpox, pertussis or measles? There was a measles outbreak in California two years ago which was directly the result of unvaccinated children.

 

Correct. People (children) will get sick and some will die because of the misinformation spread by anti-vaccinators. Wile is correct on that point.

 

Wrong on a lot of other things, but correct about this.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct. People (children) will get sick and some will die because of the misinformation spread by anti-vaccinators. Wile is correct on that point.

 

Wrong on a lot of other things, but correct about this.

 

Bill

 

I'm a pediatrics nurse. I get to see the kids who are hospitalized because somebody decided they didn't want the TDaP and now a baby has pertussis and is stuck in a croup tent and wearing oxygen and can't breathe. It's loads of fun for me to force the parents to keep their kid in the tent even though it's crying and wants out. I have to tape O2 to their faces and tape their arm to a board to keep their IV in. Yeah. It's exactly how you imagined spending your 1 year old's birthday, isn't it? Or your baby's first Christmas?

 

I've had one kid who now develops hypoxemia with any little respiratory infection after she recovered from pertussis at 3 months old. We saw her for Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Mardi Gras and Easter for her first year of life. And she's now a terrible stick because her veins are so abused from repeated IVs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We only used one Apologia text, and I think Jay Wile co-wrote the book. My ds is a senior now, so I don't remember much, but I did hear him speak at a conference and chatted with him afterward. Funny, because I remember being struck by his humility. Maybe it is how the writing comes across?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read his blog, but I have spoken with him at homeschool conferences, heard him speak, and have used his material for 7-8 years. I'm sorry you've come away with that impression, but I have never found him to be arrogant at all. I haven't seen that attitude in his material either, nor have I heard that complaint. If anything, I have found his material to be much less arrogant, or unnecessarily didactic, than other science material.

 

It is so easy to misinterpret the tone of informal written material such as a blog. Think of how often the tone in emails is misinterpreted. Happens to me more often than I can count!

 

If you were considering using his texts, look at them yourself before dismissing them based on your impression of his blog tone, and ask some trusted veterans their opinions of his texts. Good luck!

 

 

 

Yolanda

:iagree:I think Wile Rocks! He is a blast to talk with and my dh and I actually know his wife from college.

We are using Prentice Hall Chem this year and it is working well. It's the first year in 12 I haven't used Apologia (we had to throw our copies) and I felt a bit guilty. We chose Prentice Hall cause that's what the teacher at Tutoring Cntr said to get :001_smile:. It's been fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never been to his blog, but I completely dropped Apologia as a science option after my children complained of feeling ridiculed for not being YE. I have absolutely no problem with people believing YE. I do have a problem with insulting insinuations toward a different theory. (which they all are.....theories)

 

I am not new to homeschooling, but I am new to the homeschooling forums and jargon... what is YE?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We used Apologia's General Science with my son, previously he also used Creatures of the Fifth Day - flying creatures.

 

We quit using those books. We are not YE, and we're Catholic. A double whammy when it comes to Apologia.

 

We've seen switched to Kolbe Academy science books. No, they did not write the books, but I trust their judgment. The science books are all secular, and if there's a religious point to be discussed it's in an add-on which you don't have to buy.

 

So far, DS is enjoying Prentice Hall Physical Science. Here's a link to Kolbe's choices.

http://www.kolbe.org/science_curriculum/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a pediatrics nurse. I get to see the kids who are hospitalized because somebody decided they didn't want the TDaP and now a baby has pertussis and is stuck in a croup tent and wearing oxygen and can't breathe. It's loads of fun for me to force the parents to keep their kid in the tent even though it's crying and wants out.

 

It's not much fun to have whooping cough as an adult or teen either -- maybe not quite as dangerous, but still not a great way to spend several weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We only used one Apologia text, and I think Jay Wile co-wrote the book. My ds is a senior now, so I don't remember much, but I did hear him speak at a conference and chatted with him afterward. Funny, because I remember being struck by his humility. Maybe it is how the writing comes across?

 

:iagree:

 

I have looked at his blog, but never used any of his books - they just aren't for me. However, when I met him at a homeschool conference this year and listened to him speak, I was very impressed with him as a person, even if I would never choose the books he wrote.

 

For the OP, Dr. Wile no longer works for Apologia. I don't think you are saying you like him as a person when you use textbooks he wrote. Apologia's stance as a company was apparently too different from his own for him to work there, so you may want to support the company.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:iagree: I once called Apologia to ask a question and Dr. Wile spent time with me on the phone. He was very nice and patient with me and I never got the impression that he was arrogant.

 

I've heard the same thing from friends who have called or asked him questions at conferences.

 

I am not for or against him (we don't use his books, and I am a Calvinist, but I agree with him on vaccines.)

 

I have to say, though, that men who know what they believe and are willing to say it out loud and stand behind it are often seen as arrogant by others. It can be intimidating. There are several homeschooling "names" who have been accused of the same thing. :001_smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard the same thing from friends who have called or asked him questions at conferences.

 

I am not for or against him (we don't use his books, and I am a Calvinist, but I agree with him on vaccines.)

 

I have to say, though, that men who know what they believe and are willing to say it out loud and stand behind it are often seen as arrogant by others. It can be intimidating. There are several homeschooling "names" who have been accused of the same thing. :001_smile:

 

Being intelligent and taking a stand for what you believe in are different than being arrogant. I have not been to a conference. I stated in my first post that I was referring to his attitude in his comments to others all over his blog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

We quit using those books. We are not YE, and we're Catholic. A double whammy when it comes to Apologia.

 

http://www.kolbe.org/science_curriculum/

 

Uh oh. Apologia and being Catholic don't mix? :glare:

 

I already knew about the (allegations of) arrogance and the YE POV, but I admit to still being tempted to look at the high school level books. I won't use BJU because of the above reasons, so perhaps I should give up Apologia dreams once and for all. Where is the secular science-in-a-kit for art majors?

Sigh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There aren't any Catholic science texts for high school - or at least none that I could find. No matter what you use, you're going to have to do some clarifying on certain issues. I decided to go with Apologia because I'd rather have her read about the world as a wonder of God's creation and teach her how our thinking is different on certain points, than to have her learn from texts which don't even mention God's Hand in any of this.

 

Each family has to decide for themselves, but I'm very happy with our decision. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I just looked at the blog and don't think he came across as being arrogant. Firm in his beliefs regarding vaccinations,yes, but I don't see that as being arrogant. I am wondering if having a view different from his makes a difference in whether or not he is viewed as being arrogant.

 

If you had read what he wrote in an article and did not know who the author was would it still have sounded arrogant ?

I think it's unrealistic to think that the authors of textbooks we purchase will have the same views that we do on everything. If I liked his textbooks, minus the vaccination views, I would go ahead and still use his textbooks.

Do you think it would be helpful to find out the views of other textbook writers regarding vaccinations before purchasing their textbooks too ? edited to add: But it's not about vaccinations, right, but the attitude you think he is explaining his views on the subject with ?

I would just put that issue aside in my mind. But if I found I could not there are always other textbooks to use.

Edited by Miss Sherry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do have General Science.

 

It is not that I disagree with anything he has said- I am not anti-vaccine- and that is not even what got me frustrated.

 

It was not a misunderstood tone. It was his telling everyone on his blog that all scientific studies were skewed except the ones he uses and believes. He says condescending things to those on his blog- even those who respectfully disagree with him.

 

Basically, I think I know I will not continue to his his books. I may not know other others attitudes, etc., but once I find out a glaring fault- I guess I have to deal with it.

 

Now I am just looking to find some good science texts to use.

I believe he is very analytical in his thinking. You could ask him specifically why he is saying that certain studies are flawed and my guess is that he would give you a concrete answer. I think that people with his type of thinking patterns are sometimes looked at as being arrogant. But it is not about arrogance. It's just about how they process information. They really don't think they are better than other people or don't care about other people. They deal in facts, not emotions and being soft and fuzzy when they explain their ideas.

Edited by Miss Sherry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being intelligent and taking a stand for what you believe in are different than being arrogant. I have not been to a conference. I stated in my first post that I was referring to his attitude in his comments to others all over his blog.

Are you talking about his comments regarding vaccinations on his blog ? Assuming that is what you mean - I may have missed some other subject on his blog - Something about Jay Wile to keep in mind regarding him speaking about vaccinations is that he has written many articles on the subject and studied vaccinations for many years so this is a topic he has a lot to say about. It seems to me that many people say very inflammatory things to him filled with a lot of emotion and he remains civil and stays on topic without attacking them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think I will be reading anymore author blogs either! lol

I will look into the link & info above. Thank you.

 

"I don't think I will be reading anymore author blogs either! lol "

 

LOL Good idea. It takes so much time to figure out all of your curriculum choices you may never (me I really mean ) be able to decide on what to use if you find out too much about too many authors. :lol::lol::lol:

 

I think one of the reasons he is so passionate regarding vaccinations is because he firmly believes many people are being hurt and even dieing and he wants to prevent people from being harmed. I do think his motives are good and it comes from caring about people. However, people do get mad at him because they disagree with him. I think he continues on because he believes he is doing the right thing rather than what would make him more popular among some groups. I do admire him for doing what he believes is right rather than changing his views because he is constantly

criticized for them. Really, what else could he do ? He believes his views will save lives, as do many, many other scientists and other professionals, so I don't think he can be faulted for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe he is very analytical in his thinking. You could ask him specifically why he is saying that certain studies are flawed and my guess is that he would give you a concrete answer. I think that people with his type of thinking patterns are sometimes looked at as being arrogant. But it is not about arrogance. It's just about how they process information. They really don't think they are better than other people or don't care about other people. They deal in facts, not emotions and being soft and fuzzy when they explain their ideas.

 

In his textbooks, this is not how he presents information. He states what "proves" YE and then essentially belittles anyone who can't see how it "disproves" all other theories and data. He is completely dismissive to evidence that contradicts his own. I think he weakens his own arguments by denying the scientific value of other tests, etc. But, regardless, he comes across arrogant and not just "knowledgeable" if you question the validity of his suppositions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In his textbooks, this is not how he presents information. He states what "proves" YE and then essentially belittles anyone who can't see how it "disproves" all other theories and data. He is completely dismissive to evidence that contradicts his own. I think he weakens his own arguments by denying the scientific value of other tests, etc. But, regardless, he comes across arrogant and not just "knowledgeable" if you question the validity of his suppositions.

 

But... show me the writings of any science or history person who believes what they do strongly enough to write a textbook on it and I will be able to show you the same traits.

 

Actually, all science people I know (regardless of their individual view or topic) tend to be this way - as do all history people - and I know several of each. They believe what they believe based on their reasons and tend to dismiss others or studies that show things differently. It's rare to find one that can discuss many theories without being biased against those they don't agree with. They often look down upon those that disagree with them.

 

As I mentioned on the other thread about this, my 9th grade ps son just encountered this in his 20th Century class. His teacher believes WWI to be the planet's deadliest war. Oodles of sources found by google will say otherwise (WWII leads this grim statistic by millions). BUT, this history teacher has his reasons and probably learned them from a history prof who held them and preached them. It doesn't matter what others say or what studies show. So, my son learned to double check "facts" even from loved teachers AND that intelligent people can have different views based on their beliefs about the past. He also learned for this class to pick WWI if it's a test question! But if he's on Cash Cab or in other classes, go with WWII. Which does he personally believe? I don't know, but I want him to be able to justify his answer either way he picks (which at his age is to adopt the reasonings of his teacher or those of googled sources we looked at).

 

Personally, I promote knowing as many different theories and WHY as much as one can. Justify why you feel as you do whether you're in the majority or minority. But I've long learned that I'm in a small minority thinking this way. Most, if they care at all, will only learn theories they oppose from those that also oppose them - in order to continue opposing them. It can come across as arrogance quite easily, but it's entirely common within the human-ness of the people involved.

 

I can't say I would never dismiss a book based on arrogance of the author as there are some I refuse to read not wanting to waste my time. I won't buy them as I don't care to support the author. I might look at them via the library.

 

I doubt I would dismiss a textbook I otherwise liked over it. Chances are, if I really dug into it, I'd find something I disagreed with no matter who the author was. If vaccines... no other science text author is likely to be on the "don't vaccinate" side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But... show me the writings of any science or history person who believes what they do strongly enough to write a textbook on it and I will be able to show you the same traits.

 

Actually, all science people I know (regardless of their individual view or topic) tend to be this way - as do all history people - and I know several of each. They believe what they believe based on their reasons and tend to dismiss others or studies that show things differently. It's rare to find one that can discuss many theories without being biased against those they don't agree with. They often look down upon those that disagree with them.

 

As I mentioned on the other thread about this, my 9th grade ps son just encountered this in his 20th Century class. His teacher believes WWI to be the planet's deadliest war. Oodles of sources found by google will say otherwise (WWII leads this grim statistic by millions). BUT, this history teacher has his reasons and probably learned them from a history prof who held them and preached them. It doesn't matter what others say or what studies show. So, my son learned to double check "facts" even from loved teachers AND that intelligent people can have different views based on their beliefs about the past. He also learned for this class to pick WWI if it's a test question! But if he's on Cash Cab or in other classes, go with WWII. Which does he personally believe? I don't know, but I want him to be able to justify his answer either way he picks (which at his age is to adopt the reasonings of his teacher or those of googled sources we looked at).

 

Personally, I promote knowing as many different theories and WHY as much as one can. Justify why you feel as you do whether you're in the majority or minority. But I've long learned that I'm in a small minority thinking this way. Most, if they care at all, will only learn theories they oppose from those that also oppose them - in order to continue opposing them. It can come across as arrogance quite easily, but it's entirely common within the human-ness of the people involved.

 

I can't say I would never dismiss a book based on arrogance of the author as there are some I refuse to read not wanting to waste my time. I won't buy them as I don't care to support the author. I might look at them via the library.

 

I doubt I would dismiss a textbook I otherwise liked over it. Chances are, if I really dug into it, I'd find something I disagreed with no matter who the author was. If vaccines... no other science text author is likely to be on the "don't vaccinate" side.

 

I think you misunderstand me..... but maybe not. My POV isn't based on his blog. I could careless what he writes outside of his textbooks. My view of him as being unpalatable is based on what he writes in his textbooks. And I do believe his textbooks are a waste of my time b/c I do not believe that carbon dating is so flawed that is has no scientific validity and that those that use carbon dating are duped or just too plain stupid to see that his view on carbon dating is the only correct one.

 

My preference is to teach the theories as those who present them see them and let my children draw their own conclusions. I do not see anything intellectually honest about denigrating an alternative view point.

 

As I wrote earlier, I can respect that people believe YE. However, I do not believe that those that believe YE have cornered the only viable option and every other point of view is wrong. I know which position I hold, but I wouldn't assert that it is 100% the truth b/c I do not believe we can know for sure. Scientifically supported theories, yes. But definitive, no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just looked at the blog and don't think he came across as being arrogant. Firm in his beliefs regarding vaccinations,yes, but I don't see that as being arrogant. I am wondering if having a view different from his makes a difference in whether or not he is viewed as being arrogant.

 

If you had read what he wrote in an article and did not know who the author was would it still have sounded arrogant ?

I think it's unrealistic to think that the authors of textbooks we purchase will have the same views that we do on everything. If I liked his textbooks, minus the vaccination views, I would go ahead and still use his textbooks.

Do you think it would be helpful to find out the views of other textbook writers regarding vaccinations before purchasing their textbooks too ? edited to add: But it's not about vaccinations, right, but the attitude you think he is explaining his views on the subject with ?

I would just put that issue aside in my mind. But if I found I could not there are always other textbooks to use.

 

I realize you may not have read all the posts under this topic.

 

I am NOT anti vaccine- and I am not sure why you think I am referring to his vaccine article! I am not referring to any of his articles. I am referring to his COMMENTS to others comments who disagree with him. I read through several of the different articles comments.

 

I USE his science and I liked the book. I found his blog and thought it was neat UNTIL I happened to read his comments.

 

If you will take time to read through his mean comments on several of his articles you will see what I mean. I don't think you need to tell people things such as "since thinking is not one of your strong points...." etc. There are many comments by him like that.

 

Disagreeing with someone & standing up for your point is wonderful. But we can disagree with people graciously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe he is very analytical in his thinking. You could ask him specifically why he is saying that certain studies are flawed and my guess is that he would give you a concrete answer. I think that people with his type of thinking patterns are sometimes looked at as being arrogant. But it is not about arrogance. It's just about how they process information. They really don't think they are better than other people or don't care about other people. They deal in facts, not emotions and being soft and fuzzy when they explain their ideas.

 

Again, it is not about any of his articles. It is his unkind comments to others who (many times politely) disagreed with him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you talking about his comments regarding vaccinations on his blog ? Assuming that is what you mean - I may have missed some other subject on his blog - Something about Jay Wile to keep in mind regarding him speaking about vaccinations is that he has written many articles on the subject and studied vaccinations for many years so this is a topic he has a lot to say about. It seems to me that many people say very inflammatory things to him filled with a lot of emotion and he remains civil and stays on topic without attacking them.

 

Again, I am NOT anti vaccine. My 4 children have been vaccinated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I don't think I will be reading anymore author blogs either! lol "

 

LOL Good idea. It takes so much time to figure out all of your curriculum choices you may never (me I really mean ) be able to decide on what to use if you find out too much about too many authors. :lol::lol::lol:

 

I think one of the reasons he is so passionate regarding vaccinations is because he firmly believes many people are being hurt and even dieing and he wants to prevent people from being harmed. I do think his motives are good and it comes from caring about people. However, people do get mad at him because they disagree with him. I think he continues on because he believes he is doing the right thing rather than what would make him more popular among some groups. I do admire him for doing what he believes is right rather than changing his views because he is constantly

criticized for them. Really, what else could he do ? He believes his views will save lives, as do many, many other scientists and other professionals, so I don't think he can be faulted for that.

 

Again, it is not about his stance on vaccinations.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sometimes in a need to argue/differ/debate, my 14 year old does not even hear what I said.

 

It seems that quite often, human nature makes us want to defend a product as perfect for all, in order to justify our own use of that product. I do that.

 

Regardless of all this human nature tendancy flying around, I agree with you. I almost, almost, almost used Apologia sciences. A glitch in getting the correct edition, made me start something else....I had lots of textbooks and others I had collected, and lulled myself into thinking my kid could self-direct with Apologia, but one leap of faith later, and we're managing just fine, with a more responsive set-up, and I don't have to spend the time editing the content so much as set it up and gather info.

 

I guess I want to tell you that I think I hear your original message: and if you want some suggestions for other sciences, while I'm not the most experienced, have not homeschooled ten kids, etc., I have certainly struggled and worried and researched science to the ~nth degree. Its one subject that I feel really needs to be secular. (No debate starting on this, please.)

 

If you don't feel good about a curric, you should not, not, not use it.

Good luck,

LBS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In his textbooks, this is not how he presents information. He states what "proves" YE and then essentially belittles anyone who can't see how it "disproves" all other theories and data. He is completely dismissive to evidence that contradicts his own. I think he weakens his own arguments by denying the scientific value of other tests, etc. But, regardless, he comes across arrogant and not just "knowledgeable" if you question the validity of his suppositions.

 

 

My dd17 has been using his Physics book because we just didn't find anything else that was user friendly for home...well...yesterday she had had enough. She came to me and said his tone was...then she said she couldn't put her finger on it, but something just felt wrong. She showed me some of the passages that bothered her. They weren't outright rude or anything, but I also sensed a superior-ness in these particular passages. That's just our take, though...others, I'm sure, will not get the same feeling we do.

 

We have decided to consider another program.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In his textbooks, this is not how he presents information. He states what "proves" YE and then essentially belittles anyone who can't see how it "disproves" all other theories and data. He is completely dismissive to evidence that contradicts his own. I think he weakens his own arguments by denying the scientific value of other tests, etc. But, regardless, he comes across arrogant and not just "knowledgeable" if you question the validity of his suppositions.

 

The fact that he presents differing opinions and other theories and data AT ALL gives me more reason to respect him and use his books. Try finding even a hint of creation, intelligent design, or <GASP>: the idea of a young earth in a secular text book....unless of course they are introducing those idiots who are not "really" scientists is nil.

 

I stand by my premise that whatever text you use will be biased by the author or the author team and will include their own agenda or the aganda of those who hired them to write the book.

 

If you believe God (or an intelligent being) created the heavens and the earth, THAT evidence is completely dismissed and the argument is ridiculed as "bad" science in any secular text or class.

 

I guess it depends which scientist you want teaching your kids and if you are willing to keep up on their studioes and talk...talk...talk...

 

My older kids all used Apologia in High School. I figured once they went to college they would be faced with all sorts of secular science. They are saturated in secular science on TV, in books, in movies etc. so offering them a completely creation based program gives them a handle on Christian based beliefs and the science which backs creation. I found this worked beautifully. They are nit walking "CREATION ZOMBIES" nor are they convinced that the almighty college professor knows all.....They are great questioners and are always ready listen to all sides and ideas of an argument, discuss ideas and come to their own conclusions, yet are open enough to accept the fact that other people may have different opinions.

\

So, before you throw out the baby with the bath water, you may want to ask yourself what your long term goals are for teaching science and scientific thought. Then pick your tools carefully with that end in mind.

 

So far, I have been happy with the tools I have chosen and the results they achieved. Your family may need something else....

 

Faithe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that he presents differing opinions and other theories and data AT ALL gives me more reason to respect him and use his books. Try finding even a hint of creation, intelligent design, or <GASP>: the idea of a young earth in a secular text book....unless of course they are introducing those idiots who are not "really" scientists come to their own conclusions, yet are open enough to accept the fact that other people may have different opinions.

 

 

But Faithe, Wile is not presenting differing theories. Creationism and Intelligent Design are not scientific theories, and are not supported by scientific method or scientific evidence. Nor does the scientific evidence support the notion of a 6000-10000 year-old earth.

 

Presenting "opinion" as if it is valid science is the real problem with Wile's so-called "science" books.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used Apologia for years, but I don't agree with his view on vaccinations. It was easy to overlook it in his texts. (But my, did he go on and on or what in the blog....).

 

I think there will be something to disagree with with anyone..... in fact, you don't know the views of most text authors.

Ditto. In fact, I've emailed back and forth with him on the vaccination issue (having had a child suffer from a reaction). He IS arrogant. Pretty much, he knows it all and anyone that disagrees with him on this issue (regardless of reason or experience, as in my case) is an "idiot". I still used Apologia with my oldest. Dr. Wile's personal attitude does not come through the text, but some of his biases do. We discuss all sides of the issue when we hit the brief segment on vaccinations. Also, we had to discuss the segment on Galileo as he was unbalanced (and off on a few facts) on that subject (anti Catholic).

 

So, IMO, his books are fine...just avoid his blog (and I think he sold Apologia, didn't he? So there are others running the show and making the money now ;) )

 

Oh, and EVERY science book has bias. You have to be willing to discuss with your students when you come across it. I had a biology teacher that intentionally would skip the evolution chapter of our biology books.

Edited by mommaduck
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...