Guest climbingmomoftwo Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hello, I am new to homeschooling (a first grader), so I am definitely still figuring things out, but yesterday at the park I was talking to a teacher and was explaining my phonics program, and she said, "You do know that there are 100 sight and see words that your first grader needs to know!" She said it in a tone that made me question if I was teaching my son to read in the correct way. Are sight and see words a necessary part of a phonics program? I checked some of them out online, and they looked to be words that he could eventually pronounce on his own. I am just really confused, so I thought I would see if any of you had advice! Thanks, Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jec3113 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Don't worry about sight words. Public school doesn't teach phonics they teach whole language which basically means that the kids memorize a bunch of words and decode the rest from the pictures. Continue on with your phonics instruction. She is just trying to scare you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hello, I am new to homeschooling (a first grader), so I am definitely still figuring things out, but yesterday at the park I was talking to a teacher and was explaining my phonics program, and she said, "You do know that there are 100 sight and see words that your first grader needs to know!" She said it in a tone that made me question if I was teaching my son to read in the correct way. Are sight and see words a necessary part of a phonics program? I checked some of them out online, and they looked to be words that he could eventually pronounce on his own. I am just really confused, so I thought I would see if any of you had advice! Thanks, Page Never talk to a teacher about homeschooling. Just don't do it. Public school teachers are stuck on sight reading, even though it has been a massive failure for the last, oh, 40 or 50 years. It is why literacy in the U.S. is so poor. Never talk to a teacher about how to teach a child to read. No, it is NOT necessary to teach children to memorize words (although it doesn't hurt to teach them to recognize some number and color words). Ues a good phonics method, of which there are many. You could also go to the library and look for "Why Johnny Still Can't Read." You will forever be sold on phonics. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Unless you are having difficulty with phonics or your child is a very visual learner, smile politely and then ignore what she said. It is true in ps that a child has to read those 100 words to pass in order to go to the next grade. They never listen to the child read in context at my dd's old school. They just have them read this list of 100 words and say they read on a 1st grade level or 2nd and so forth. It is their standard for measuring reading. You do not have to follow such standards and therefore can use whatever method works best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaMa2005 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Speaking as a reading teacher, there are 220 Dolch sight words that make up between 50 and 75% of the words used in reading. I am a huge phonics proponent, but I have always taught the Dolch 220 list alongside any phonics program that I have used. By learning the sight words, a student gains a great deal of confidence in reading and thus, does not become frustrated as easily. I agree that many of the words can be sounded out, but there are also many that do not follow the phonics rules. IMO, use your phonics program but add the sight words on the side. There are many games on the web that can be played using the sight words. Have fun with them and before you know it, your child will have them mastered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Read this thread ;) http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207420&highlight=sight+words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Speaking as a reading teacher, there are 220 Dolch sight words that make up between 50 and 75% of the words used in reading. I am a huge phonics proponent, but I have always taught the Dolch 220 list alongside any phonics program that I have used. By learning the sight words, a student gains a great deal of confidence in reading and thus, does not become frustrated as easily. I agree that many of the words can be sounded out, but there are also many that do not follow the phonics rules. IMO, use your phonics program but add the sight words on the side. There are many games on the web that can be played using the sight words. Have fun with them and before you know it, your child will have them mastered. Most phonics programs introduce sight words as well. At least the ones we have used MCP, Abeka, CLP, LLATL, The Reading Lesson...all introduce sight words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Never talk to a teacher about homeschooling. Just don't do it. :iagree::ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Did you know that the method that most schools use to teach reading was originally used and designed for a school for deaf children? Phonics works! Trust me! My dsd11 starting HS with us recently after attending a PS and she has had a huge problem with the lack of phonics. We are using the Spalding method and I was amazed at the sounds she didn't know. Sight words being memorized may get the child reading a little faster but it is also a proven fact that by the time the child reaches around a 4th - 5th grade level this will create huge problems. It is impossible for the human mind at this age to memorize all the words they will see. If you teach your child whole language reading how can you expect them to be able to sound out words they do not know yet? And why would you teach them whole language reading when they are younger and then say to them (when they get older) "Oh, you have to sound out the words you do not know". We leave sight words out of it all together and my dd7 and dd10 have only been taught phonics. They read 2-4 grade levels above the peers. Just my opinion.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 here's food for thought on the phonics vs. sight words and just how many are sight vs. rules. claims that 218 out of those 220 words can be sounded out when you are teaching phonics and syllables and phonogram thing. http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html just food for thought on that issue. I like how All About Spelling seems to do with the rules over sight for most of it and teaches "open and closed syllables" and how that affects it all. interesting how it's done differently by different instructors. -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hello, I am new to homeschooling (a first grader), so I am definitely still figuring things out, but yesterday at the park I was talking to a teacher and was explaining my phonics program, and she said, "You do know that there are 100 sight and see words that your first grader needs to know!" She said it in a tone that made me question if I was teaching my son to read in the correct way. When I first started homeschooling, I would excitedly get into conversations like this, and then get scared that I was doing something wrong when something like this happened. So I stopped doing it, and started reading more to reassure myself that I was doing things correctly for my kids. Doing a phonetic program here WORKED. Sure, there are words they memorize by how they look, but this comes by continued reading. And how did they learn to read confidently? By phonics training. You hang in there! And come chat with us some more - you can explain things all you want here, and you will find plenty of us who will agree with and support you. :D Welcome to the forums! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsjamiesouth Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 My oldest son started out in ps where they taught him sight words instead of phonics. In K he couldn't understand and blend the phonics sounds, so they skipped it and had me focus on sight words. In 2nd grade we homeschooled and I decided since he was reading well not to go back and do phonics. That was the biggest mistake ever!! Now he is in 5th grade and the books are getting too hard for him because he doesn't know how to sound out words. I just switched my ds6 from LTR (which I felt focused too much on sight words) to phonics pathways. I want to make sure he has a strong foundation. I am having ds10 play the games with his brother so he learns some phonics without feeling "dumb" or having to do "babyish" work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 My oldest son started out in ps where they taught him sight words instead of phonics. In K he couldn't understand and blend the phonics sounds, so they skipped it and had me focus on sight words. In 2nd grade we homeschooled and I decided since he was reading well not to go back and do phonics. That was the biggest mistake ever!! Now he is in 5th grade and the books are getting too hard for him because he doesn't know how to sound out words. I just switched my ds6 from LTR (which I felt focused too much on sight words) to phonics pathways. I want to make sure he has a strong foundation. I am having ds10 play the games with his brother so he learns some phonics without feeling "dumb" or having to do "babyish" work. http://readingeggs.com/ This site is great b/c it will place your older child where they need to start instead of starting at the very beginning. My, at the time, 3rd and 4th graders enjoyed playing on reading eggs after coming out from public school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsjamiesouth Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 http://readingeggs.com/ This site is great b/c it will place your older child where they need to start instead of starting at the very beginning. My, at the time, 3rd and 4th graders enjoyed playing on reading eggs after coming out from public school. Thanks for the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savmom Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 http://readingeggs.com/ This site is great b/c it will place your older child where they need to start instead of starting at the very beginning. My, at the time, 3rd and 4th graders enjoyed playing on reading eggs after coming out from public school. My dd just completed the last level and it has really helped her with blends & cvce words (she is 8 and still struggling with learning to read fluently). She went from level 50 or 60 or maybe 72 to 100 in 3 weeks (she took the placement test and I can't remember where she placed). You can sign up for a free trial (which I am happy to say is what we did especially considering how much it would have cost me for 3 weeks of lessons)! Cindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 We are doing 90% phonics (ETC and AAS) and 10% high frequency words. Mainly because my son is very visual and partially because by learning just a few of those words he is able to read entire books sooner. He wants to be able to read Hop on Pop. He can read almost the entire thing except about 10 words many of which are on dolch lists. So, we are working on those words in a small way - the ones he wants to know I write down in a spiral bound index card book and we go through them a couple times a week. He gets a sticker on each page he can read. He just gets so excited when he can read entire pages in a "real" book. He's not having any trouble sounding out/segmenting words when we do phonics so I don't think it's hurting that any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twins05 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Doing a phonetic program here WORKED. Sure, there are words they memorize by how they look, but this comes by continued reading. And how did they learn to read confidently? By phonics training. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 No. Many sight words can be taught by the phonics method. For those that can't, I let the child sound out the word (was, for example), then gently correct to the proper pronunciation, explaining as I go that some words like to break the rules a bit. After once or twice of learning the correct pronunciation in context--and I believe that is the important part--he never forgets it again. Learning lists of sight words without context is a meaningless exercise in frustration. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam101 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Speaking as a reading teacher, there are 220 Dolch sight words that make up between 50 and 75% of the words used in reading. I am a huge phonics proponent, but I have always taught the Dolch 220 list alongside any phonics program that I have used. By learning the sight words, a student gains a great deal of confidence in reading and thus, does not become frustrated as easily. I agree that many of the words can be sounded out, but there are also many that do not follow the phonics rules. IMO, use your phonics program but add the sight words on the side. There are many games on the web that can be played using the sight words. Have fun with them and before you know it, your child will have them mastered. This is how I taught my son to read. We did sight words along with phonics and still review phonics (mostly for spelling purposes now). It's not for everyone, but I started him with phonics alone and quickly figured out that wasn't going to work with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpsings Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Never taught my girls sight words. Somehow, they turned out just fine. ;) I think it's an ego thing for ps teachers to try to demean homeschoolers and make us feel insecure. That's why when I'm at the park with a ps teacher, I usually don't have too much to discuss. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I borrowed a list of those words from one of my friends, made flash cards and just went over them every day with my boys, alongside of our A Beka phonics program. I think they helped. I'm not saying it's critical one way or another because I think that the more fluent a reader you become everything becomes a sightword. But, I did do it, didn't make a big deal out of it. And, as previous posters have said, discuss anything BUT education with ps teachers. Although my son's speech teacher (in ps) loves that we're homeschooling and said she wishes she had done it with her kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Most phonics programs introduce sight words as well. At least the ones we have used MCP, Abeka, CLP, LLATL, The Reading Lesson...all introduce sight words. CLP has a definite sight-reading orientation, as does R&S. Not sure about LLATL, and MCP has some sight-reading elements, but I know ABeka is strong phonics. A solid phonics-based method will not teach the children to memorize words; it will teach them the phonics necessary to decode those words. And yes, some of those words might happen to be the ones taught as "sight words" with some methods, but there's a difference between teaching children to memorize words by sight alone and teaching those words using phonics skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 CLP has a definite sight-reading orientation, as does R&S. Not sure about LLATL, and MCP has some sight-reading elements, but I know ABeka is strong phonics. A solid phonics-based method will not teach the children to memorize words; it will teach them the phonics necessary to decode those words. And yes, some of those words might happen to be the ones taught as "sight words" with some methods, but there's a difference between teaching children to memorize words by sight alone and teaching those words using phonics skills. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 CLP has a definite sight-reading orientation, as does R&S. Not sure about LLATL, and MCP has some sight-reading elements, but I know ABeka is strong phonics. A solid phonics-based method will not teach the children to memorize words; it will teach them the phonics necessary to decode those words. And yes, some of those words might happen to be the ones taught as "sight words" with some methods, but there's a difference between teaching children to memorize words by sight alone and teaching those words using phonics skills. I think they all have sight words introduced. That is what I meant. All of those programs have words that they teach as "sight" words. They are phonics programs, but they do include sight words. Abeka is definitely strong phonics. I learned to read with Abeka, but it does have words that Abeka calls sight words in the readers. That is what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest climbingmomoftwo Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Thanks for the advice everyone! There is not a huge homeschool support system in our community (most people look at you like you are crazy or an idiot when you tell them you are homeschooling). In fact, it is so bad at times that I dread when anyone looks at my son and says, "So, what school do you go to?" because I know that their question is going to open up a whole can of worms when my son says he is homeschooled. Anyway, I am so glad to have found support through you all. I will definitely evaluate what each of you has advised and make a decision that works best for our family. Right now, I am leaning more towards a phonics based program w/out sight and see words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 There are a variety of ways to teach reading. Memorizing high-frequency sight words is a short-cut that can leave big holes. As others have stated most "sight words" can be taught phonetically, and it is better to do so. The schools here (I have a First Grader) use both phonics and sight words, and the children are doing well (and can read words they are not familiar with). Never-the-less we are doing a separate phonics program at home, as I don't want holes in the phonics. I would not let the comment that there is a list of words a First Grader is expected to know (which is true) dissuade you from the teaching reading through phonics. You are doing things the better way. If you don't let (some) homeschoolers* convince you to treat math the way they accuse public school teachers of teaching reading (by memorizing math-facts without a full comprehension of the concept in the same way sight words are memorized without understanding the phonics) you will be gold. Every community has its blind-spots. Bill (*who knows there is a sizable and growing number of homeschoolers committed to better math education, as there are teachers in public schools using phonics. But still...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I spoke to a PS language teacher in a social setting and she was nice but almost totally undermined my confidence in teaching language-- suggested I get a tutor--this despite I know more languages more fluently than her! I decided it's better to smile nicely & take it with a grain of salt. You did the right thing by asking this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoccm Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 We start with OPGTR before moving on to SWR. OPGTR does have some sight words, but I usually explain why the word is spelled the way it is using SWR instead of calling it a sight word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 What learning sight words does is it allows a child to read leveled readers that aren't phonetically controlled--books like Frog and Toad or Little Bear. Most sight words are actually phonetically regular. The rest usually have a vowel sound that is odd. As long as you're teaching phonics, there is no harm in also teaching sight words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick_Mom Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) Hello, yesterday at the park I was talking to a teacher and was explaining my phonics program, and she said, "You do know that there are 100 sight and see words that your first grader needs to know!" She said it in a tone that made me question if I was teaching my son to read in the correct way. Good grief. I think I would've been tempted to say, "I'm sorry, but I don't recall asking for your 'professional' advice." Or: "Your statement implies that you think I'm incompetent." :D Aside from the issue of sight words vs. phonics (which has been addressed wonderfully here), this teacher has this arrogant "Surely a mere mortal like YOU can't possibly be teaching your own child!" thing going on. Edited October 3, 2010 by Maverick_Mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classically Minded Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Public school teachers are stuck on sight reading, even though it has been a massive failure for the last, oh, 40 or 50 years. It is why literacy in the U.S. is so poor. Never talk to a teacher about how to teach a child to read. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 This conversations is reminiscent of one I had with my a relative when she was teaching in an inner city school. She had taught 1st grade for a couple of yrs and was extremely frustrated b/c she had been very unsuccessful in teaching many of her students how to read. I asked her what method she was using and she said that they used a word wall with pictures and that kids were expected to memorize via word/picture association. I talked to her a long time about phonics and she was energized about going into her classroom and introducing phonics. She was reprimanded by another teacher and then the principle b/c phonics instruction was not allowed. When she questioned why, they gave her a montage of reasons including that they couldn't learn to read that way b/c they didn't pronounce words correctly??? When she told me that, she was perfectly content with their explanation. I looked at her dumbfounded. I asked her if it was okay to let them speak incorrectly and use poor grammar or was her role to educate them to speak correctly. She said she hadn't considered that. :confused::confused::confused: When she spoke to the principal again, she was told she was forbidden to interfere with either b/c it was cultural and not her role to correct anything. She ended up quitting teaching. But......it is a sad commentary. What precisely is the role of education today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I think you should do what you think is best with your kids. You know them best. I will share something from my own experience just to give you some ideas. We use SWR as our spelling/LA program in the early years to learn spelling & phonics & reading (after at least some but not all 100EL). We had our oldest tested when she was just under 7 by a vision therapy doctor. She tested near the top of the chart for phonics awareness for her age-group. She tested just under 50% for sight (whole-word) reading. SWR doesn't have sight words, although they teach the top-frequency (Ayres List) words. They thought that her results meant she couldn't read well (which she couldn't at the time). Their approach was to "take away" the phonics and replace it with sight reading. Without their intervention, her reading level went up two grades in two-three months time and has continued to grow. I realized I needed to do more work helping her recognize her spelling list words without sounding them out each time. I already had them on flashcards (for spelling practice), so we just started going through them more often. Good luck! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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