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Foggy brains in 15 yo boys?


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My ds15 went to school outside of home last year. He scored straight A's in honors geometry. In 8th grade he completed Algebra I at home, his average was 96%. This year he is back home and so far his average in Algebra II is 50%. He's using Saxon Algebra II with Saxon Teacher, he watches the lesson, completes the problem set. Beginning today I am teaching him the math (this is not an entirely pretty sight :tongue_smilie:); we are going over the lessons he bombed and things are clicking. I'm at a loss though, he says he's at a loss. He used Chalkdust for Algebra I and had no problems. Perhaps this is a readjustment that needs to take place after being in school last year. I'm wondering too if hormonal stuff interferes with concentration. He's grown a lot over the summer, he shot passed his older brother, probably grew at least 3". Any suggestions to improve concentration?

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:bigear: :lurk5:

 

Yes, the fog of the 15yo is real :) Mine can be straight up, "Huh? Did you say something?" Totally duh, even spacey at times...not his usual self!

 

Here are a couple of things that seem to help:

 

 

 

  • more protein in his diet
  • more water
  • smaller spurts of each subject: I actually set up "periods" for him like the ringing of the bell in p.s.
  • constant oversight
  • inserting a 10 min walk with the dog a couple of times just for some fresh air

 

Otherwise, I'm :bigear: and I'm with you about teaching math :tongue_smilie:I will say, we're using Chalkdust Alg 2 successfully.

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Having used Saxon all the way through Advanced Math with a couple of my kids, I would never use Saxon Algebra II with a child who did not use Saxon Algebra I. The way concepts are presented in Saxon is so peculiar to the program that it would be difficult to jump in midway. Just my 2 cents.

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I'm with you about teaching math :tongue_smilie:I will say, we're using Chalkdust Alg 2 successfully.

 

I was hoping not to spend the money, but yeah, it occured to me that he prefers D. Mosely to the lady in Saxon Teacher. Saxon clicked with ds17 and I was hoping to reuse the curriculum with ds15.

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Having used Saxon all the way through Advanced Math with a couple of my kids, I would never use Saxon Algebra II with a child who did not use Saxon Algebra I. The way concepts are presented in Saxon is so peculiar to the program that it would be difficult to jump in. Just my 2 cents.

 

I'll keep that in mind. His brother used Chalkdust for Algebra I and Geometry and did great with Saxon Algebra II and now Advanced Math. I'll have to ask him about that. Thank you.

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Have you thought about doing geometry this year?

Yes, they forget a lot the year they grow, my ds did (he grew 6" in one year). He doesn't even remember what he did, even when I show him a workbook that he did. Supposedly every boy doesn't remember either 8th or 9th grade. I think their brain rewires or something like that.

Also, my ds hit a road block doing Algebra 2 (in 10th grade). He flat couldn't do it. It was developmental. We redid it the next year, and it was much better.

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You also have a 'younger' Algebra 2 student...

 

Saxon teaches in such a DIFFERENT way... they introduce vocabulary and methods that are unique to THEIR program in the Algebra 1 text--and they ASSUME that students using their Algebra 2 text used their Algebra 1 text. Not all programs are compatible...even though they cover the same objectives.

 

Even with the best DVD or 'real teacher'... I would NEVER suggest Saxon Algebra 2 and above to a student who did not use Saxon in the previous level(s).

 

I used to teach from Saxon and I've witnessed the program work wonderfully well for MOST of my students...it was not always a perfect fit...I never accepted students into the program after Algebra 1... too much UNNECESSARY frustration... like expecting a cowboy to be able to ride a camel...

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Have you thought about doing geometry this year?

 

Also, my ds hit a road block doing Algebra 2 (in 10th grade). He flat couldn't do it. It was developmental. We redid it the next year, and it was much better.

 

No, I don't think I will redo geometry, but you have got me thinking about revisiting Algebra I. Thank you.

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:bigear: :lurk5:

 

Yes, the fog of the 15yo is real :) Mine can be straight up, "Huh? Did you say something?" Totally duh, even spacey at times...not his usual self!

 

Here are a couple of things that seem to help:

 

 

  • more protein in his diet
  • more water
  • smaller spurts of each subject: I actually set up "periods" for him like the ringing of the bell in p.s.
  • constant oversight
  • inserting a 10 min walk with the dog a couple of times just for some fresh air

Otherwise, I'm :bigear: and I'm with you about teaching math :tongue_smilie:I will say, we're using Chalkdust Alg 2 successfully.

 

:iagree:, except that we found longer periods worked better - he took 10 - 20 minutes to settle into a subject regardless of the length of period, so longer periods were more efficient.

 

Caffine was, and still is, very effective too.

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:sad: I have never heard this about Saxon before :sigh: And like I mentioned in another post this wasn't the case at all with my oldest, in fact he did better with Saxon Algebra II than he did in the two previous years of Chalkdust. Everyone is different, I'll be thankful I didn't hit a wall with him. True, ds15 is attempting Algebra II a year younger than ds17 did.

 

I wonder if we use Saxon Algebra I for a semester or so, then Algebra II for a year, and then Advanced Math, which I heard often takes 1.5 years? Is that true that AM should take that long? My oldest son is finishing a complete lesson (no skipping) a day in Saxon Advanced Math and Saxon Physics and doing great (he's my non-mathy guy :confused:) Of course he is only on problem set 10 and that may change.

 

Thanks Jann.

 

You also have a 'younger' Algebra 2 student...

 

Saxon teaches in such a DIFFERENT way... they introduce vocabulary and methods that are unique to THEIR program in the Algebra 1 text--and they ASSUME that students using their Algebra 2 text used their Algebra 1 text. Not all programs are compatible...even though they cover the same objectives.

 

Even with the best DVD or 'real teacher'... I would NEVER suggest Saxon Algebra 2 and above to a student who did not use Saxon in the previous level(s).

 

I used to teach from Saxon and I've witnessed the program work wonderfully well for MOST of my students...it was not always a perfect fit...I never accepted students into the program after Algebra 1... too much UNNECESSARY frustration... like expecting a cowboy to be able to ride a camel...

Edited by Karenciavo
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Howdy, neighbor!

 

Could the problem also be because Saxon is a spiral curriculum, while Chalkdust is mastery?

 

I have one dd who struggled with Saxon, mostly because of the time it took. I've put it down to it being very hard for her to switch gears and adjust to one type of problem followed by a different type, followed by a different type, and on and on. Even Teaching Textbooks slowed her down with the continual review. She did much better with Foerster's Algebra 1 which is a mastery program. Now she's using Lial's Intermediate Algebra, also mastery, and we are both very happy with it. (Thank you, Jann!!!) It's very reasonably priced, too.

 

I have another dd who is not at the algebra level yet, but she seems to need the everyday review. She also freaks out if she sees a page full of the same type of problems, so spiral is the preferred type of program for her.

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Their brains really are funny things aren't they. My 14yo ds can pick up concepts and rattle off answers right and left one minute and then the next minute he can't understand the most basic of things. I'll be completely stumped on how to break it down for him any smaller so he can process it when the next minute he'll have a light bulb moment and he's off to the races again. It can be quite maddening. :tongue_smilie:

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:sad: I have never heard this about Saxon before :sigh: And like I mentioned in another post this wasn't the case at all with my oldest, in fact he did better with Saxon Algebra II than he did in the two previous years of Chalkdust. Everyone is different, I'll be thankful I didn't hit a wall with him. True, ds15 is attempting Algebra II a year younger than ds17 did.

 

I wonder if we use Saxon Algebra I for a semester or so, then Algebra II for a year, and then Advanced Math, which I heard often takes 1.5 years? Is that true that AM should take that long? My oldest son is finishing a complete lesson (no skipping) a day in Saxon Advanced Math and Saxon Physics and doing great (he's my non-mathy guy :confused:) Of course he is only on problem set 10 and that may change.

 

Thanks Jann.

I wonder if you could get a Saxon 1 text just for the concepts (they're not too much used just the text), so when he is stuck he could see how it was explained back in Alg. 1. We are just beginning Saxon 2 and they do review each concept from last year, but in way less detail.

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I wonder if you could get a Saxon 1 text just for the concepts (they're not too much used just the text), so when he is stuck he could see how it was explained back in Alg. 1. We are just beginning Saxon 2 and they do review each concept from last year, but in way less detail.

 

I think I will. I can borrow it from a friend who doesn't need it till next year.

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Hey :001_smile:

 

Maybe this is the difference between my two boys as well. My ds17 said last night he loves the review in Saxon, it helps cement concepts and many of the review problems have a "twist" that require attacking the problem from a different angle which he finds fun and challenging.

 

Howdy, neighbor!

 

Could the problem also be because Saxon is a spiral curriculum, while Chalkdust is mastery?

 

I have one dd who struggled with Saxon, mostly because of the time it took. I've put it down to it being very hard for her to switch gears and adjust to one type of problem followed by a different type, followed by a different type, and on and on. Even Teaching Textbooks slowed her down with the continual review. She did much better with Foerster's Algebra 1 which is a mastery program. Now she's using Lial's Intermediate Algebra, also mastery, and we are both very happy with it. (Thank you, Jann!!!) It's very reasonably priced, too.

 

I have another dd who is not at the algebra level yet, but she seems to need the everyday review. She also freaks out if she sees a page full of the same type of problems, so spiral is the preferred type of program for her.

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Karen that's great that you can borrow Saxon algebra I. Maybe you can just have him take the tests from the beginning, and go over any that are wrong. When he get less than 85 percent or so, start there letting him work through the lessons and practice problems (not necessarily the 30 problems) and test again, and keep going. This will let him work through the book quickly. If that's not enough, then you may need to do the lessons with the 30 problems and just take whatever time is needed before going back to algebra 2. In my opinion, it's worth the effort. :)

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If he's used other programs up until now with no problems and then suddenly started having problems when switching to Saxon for Algebra II, then I'd say that the program is not a match for him.

 

I like Kinetic Books for high school math. The program is very inexpensive and is computer-based with immediate feedback and stepped help on most problems.

 

I have only used the regular versions of Kinetic Books. The homeschool versions break everything up into lessons, have introductory videos for each lesson, and give you a scoring page. The regular version of KB does score the problems as you go, but you have to look at each page to get the score for that page.

 

The regular version costs $35-50 ($35 for one-year online subscription, $40 for single-use cd, $50 for multiple-use cd). The homeschool version is a one-year online subscription and costs $80, but has added features (that I don't think are worth doubling the price for). Right now they have the hs version of Algebra II on sale for $50.

 

If you consider KB, DO NOT buy the printed textbook because you will never open it.

 

http://www.kineticbooks.com/index.php

http://homeschool.kineticbooks.com/algebraTwo.php

 

You can see sample lessons from each level at the 2nd link. When you click on "try a sample lesson", the "coursework" button will take you to what you get in the regular version and the hs version and the "video" button will take you to the content added for the hs version.

Edited by AngieW in Texas
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Caffine was, and still is, very effective too.

 

Just a thought here...my D is now being treated for ADHD. She has always been an excellent student with a very high IQ but it wasn't until age 15 that the "fogginess" became a real problem.

 

We noticed that caffeine *FIXED* the fogginess. However, the problem with caffeine is that it doesn't last very long! Hence, a trip to the doctor to find out exactly what was happening, why could D function so much better sipping on a constant coffee/Coke all day? Referral to the psych...ADHD.

 

Reason why the fogginess didn't show as much in earlier grades is because there wasn't so much to remember. An ADHD/ADD brain has a lower threshold for data capacity. Any more than it can handle and the frontal cortex stops "executive function".

 

The breaking point with my daughter came when she started to take classes for her driver's (learner's) permit.Trying to learn to drive AND remember all the rules of the road AND deal with (public) high school schedules AND extracurricular activities AND hormones was just too much. She became spacey and anxious and it always took her a while to sit down and settle in to her schoolwork...transitions from one subject to another were very rough.

 

She was so unlike the young daughter who previously had been competent at everything!

 

Good luck.

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I may see if I know someone with Lial's and give it a look.

Thanks

 

For my ds who can't use Saxon, he did Chalkdust for Algebra 1, but it was difficult to use the Larson text.We're using Lial's Intermediate Algebra for Alg II and it's a perfect fit. The explanations are clear and the problem sets are just the right amount.
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Reason why the fogginess didn't show as much in earlier grades is because there wasn't so much to remember. An ADHD/ADD brain has a lower threshold for data capacity. Any more than it can handle and the frontal cortex stops "executive function".

 

The breaking point with my daughter came when she started to take classes for her driver's (learner's) permit.Trying to learn to drive AND remember all the rules of the road AND deal with (public) high school schedules AND extracurricular activities AND hormones was just too much. She became spacey and anxious and it always took her a while to sit down and settle in to her schoolwork...transitions from one subject to another were very rough.

 

She was so unlike the young daughter who previously had been competent at everything!

 

This is a truly excellent description. It fits what we've experienced to a T, except for the driving part that we haven't reached yet. Thank you so much for posting this. :grouphug:

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I wonder if you could get a Saxon 1 text just for the concepts (they're not too much used just the text)....

 

I rewrote that so many times that it ended up sounding like gibberish! Glad you could figure it out. I meant 'they don't cost too much for a used text'. Dear, I think I should have had my tea first before replying. ;)

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