Logic- A waste of time??

[Denise Allen]

For those of you who have taught your children logic- did you feel your children learned from it or did they just read it and it not become a part of them? Trying to decide if I want to spend the money on a logic program or just do rhetoric when they are older.

 

Thank you

[Susan C.]

OK, here goes. This is what happened here.... Dd did Traditional Logic 1. All but the last chapter (review) because I was saving it for when we started Traditional Logic 2. She did great with it, aced it in fact. A few months later we went back to to the review, and she couldn't do it. She didn't remember what she learned. And she simply could not do the review.

 

We haven't done any other logic. I had just read WTM before her sophomore year and wanted to do the logic. She does seem more logical :) but didn't have much retention.

[FloridaLisa]

Hmmm, that's a good question and one I've mulled over. How important is logic, really? My conclusion (at this point) is that logic is one tool of many that we use to help develop analytical and thinking skills. One can certainly think logically without ever studying formal logic. But debate, writing, reading critically, socratic discussion and formal logic all help the student learn to think through an issue and apply sound reasoning. B/c we're doing most of these, it's hard to measure the effectiveness of logic, though my gut is that it's certainly part of the package. In fact, just today we just pointed out a couple of fallacies in my teen son's arguments to me. (Nice arguments, trying to sway me on a certain parenting position. :D).

 

Having said all that, though, if you find that high school is just too full to include formal logic, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. High school is busy, which is one reason I'm going to start logic with my 8th grader this year.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[FloridaLisa]

OK, here goes. This is what happened here.... Dd did Traditional Logic 1. All but the last chapter (review) because I was saving it for when we started Traditional Logic 2. She did great with it, aced it in fact. A few months later we went back to to the review, and she couldn't do it. She didn't remember what she learned. And she simply could not do the review.

 

We haven't done any other logic. I had just read WTM before her sophomore year and wanted to do the logic. She does seem more logical :) but didn't have much retention.

 

 

 

Well, it can be tricky to remember all of the definitions and paradigms and such. I can see how there would be a memory gap if it was put down for a few months.

 

Lisa

[Denise Allen]

Hmmm, that's a good question and one I've mulled over. How important is logic, really? My conclusion (at this point) is that logic is one tool of many that we use to help develop analytical and thinking skills. One can certainly think logically without ever studying formal logic. But debate, writing, reading critically, socratic discussion and formal logic all help the student learn to think through an issue and apply sound reasoning. B/c we're doing most of these, it's hard to measure the effectiveness of logic, though my gut is that it's certainly part of the package. In fact, just today we just pointed out a couple of fallacies in my teen son's arguments to me. (Nice arguments, trying to sway me on a certain parenting position. :D).

 

Having said all that, though, if you find that high school is just too full to include formal logic, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. High school is busy, which is one reason I'm going to start logic with my 8th grader this year.

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

Thank you for this reply. I have debated teaching it (though I think the principles are necessary) because I wonder how much they would really understand and internalize. But your comment really made me realize that all the things we are teaching them (Latin, Algebra, Logic) are imparting the art of thinking. Maybe they won't remember all details, but as a whole package it will all have an affect.

[angela in ohio]

My 14 and 12 yo have done TT and FD. My 14 yo did Introductory Logic and some of Intermediate. This year, I am doing Intro and Inter with both of them. I also have a college logic text that I found recommended on the Bluedorn site, and they read it sometimes. They each know the most common types of fallacies, and I discuss other logic topics with them.

 

Both of my dd use the logic they have learned frequently. I have made an effort to give them practical applications, though, and I think that has made all the difference. It is not just an academic pursuit to them, but a topic of enjoyable conversation and a tool in writing and conversation.

[Denise Allen]

My 14 and 12 yo have done TT and FD. My 14 yo did Introductory Logic and some of Intermediate. This year, I am doing Intro and Inter with both of them. I also have a college logic text that I found recommended on the Bluedorn site, and they read it sometimes. They each know the most common types of fallacies, and I discuss other logic topics with them.

 

Both of my dd use the logic they have learned frequently. I have made an effort to give them practical applications, though, and I think that has made all the difference. It is not just an academic pursuit to them, but a topic of enjoyable conversation and a tool in writing and conversation.

 

Thank you. This is helpful.

[Lawana]

Dd is taking Traditional Logic I through Memoria Press right now. If my mind, the only way this is not a waste of time is for it to be integrated into her way of thinking. I see this step the first of many. Moving on the Trad Logic II, then Material Logic and Rhetoric.

 

Reading her Logic book is like learning a new vocabulary word. All of a sudden I see the ideas presented in places I had never noticed before.

 

It is hard to fit everthing in. As those before me have said, it's important to not let the good things crowd out the best things.

[Denise Allen]

Dd is taking Traditional Logic I through Memoria Press right now. If my mind, the only way this is not a waste of time is for it to be integrated into her way of thinking. I see this step the first of many. Moving on the Trad Logic II, then Material Logic and Rhetoric.

 

Reading her Logic book is like learning a new vocabulary word. All of a sudden I see the ideas presented in places I had never noticed before.

 

It is hard to fit everthing in. As those before me have said, it's important to not let the good things crowd out the best things.

 

Are you planning to continue the study of logic to rhetoric? I think you are saying you see the value, but you must continue this path of study so it actually becomes a part of your thinking...

[Lawana]

Are you planning to continue the study of logic to rhetoric? I think you are saying you see the value, but you must continue this path of study so it actually becomes a part of your thinking...

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Without the implementation of the ideas through rhetoric, I'm afraid it would become another subject to be learned, then forgotten. Part of this is based on the personalities and learning styles of my dc. Neither of them are likely to become that interested and intrigued with a subject such that they would think the ideas through on their own (much to my uncomprehending distress─I never met information I didn't like;)). So completing the Traditional Logic, Material Logic and Rhetoric sequence is my way of insuring they get enough exposure to actually assimilate the skills.

[TravelingChris]

It wasn't a waste of time for my son who is now an upperclassman in college majoring in Philosophy. I didn;t do it with middle since she had medical issues and we had less time. It doesn't matter. SHe is naturally a very logical child. I also think it won't be necessary with number three though we might do mathematical logic with her. She also is very logical.

[Denise Allen]

Thank you. I think we will go ahead and order the latin we have been looking at. I would like it for myself anyway... :)