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Stay with current LA or switch to Barton Reading


Lori in MS
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I suspect that my ds 10 and ds 9 have dyslexia. They had a very difficult time learning to read. I am trying to decide if I should continue with the LA that I am using or invest in the Barton System.

 

This is what they are currently using:

 

DS 10 (5th grade)

 

FLL 4

WWE3 Week 30 will begin level 4 soon.

Just started AAS a month ago beginning with level 1. Is on Level 2 Step 19

Learning cursive, is doing well. He has gorgeous printing.

He does a fantastic job on the narrations and summaries of WWE. His ability to do the dictations has greatly improved.

 

 

DS9 (3rd grade)

 

Phonics Pathways page 196. Is not totally fluent in reading but has greatly improved in word attack skills and syllable decoding.

 

AAS level 1 step 19. Started this one month ago.

 

WWE 2 week 6

 

FLL 2 lesson 125

 

reads aloud to me and silently

 

 

Any help is appreciated.

Edited by Lori in MS
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Because Barton is so detailed, the general advice given is not to use it with a child who can already read, because it will likely frustrate them as much as help them. The pace is pretty set, so it is hard to modify.

 

AAS is based on O/G methods as well, it just is missing the reading instruction pieces. Wilson is another possibility, but I know several Wilson users who have finished then gone into AAS becuase Wilson's focus is mostly on reading and not as much on spelling.

 

How much of a problem is the reading piece, and is it showing any improvement with AAS?

 

Heather

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My 10 year old is reading the WWE3 passages out loud to me with good speed and fluency. He occasionally stumbles over a multisyllable word and tries to guess what it is but when I stop him to break it down by syllables and sound it out he can do it well. He also reads a lot on his own and can tell me about the books so has good reading comprehension. When he reads silently he has to concentrate a lot and reads much more slowly than his older brothers. His main struggles are spelling and that his writing, although perfect in form, is slow. He has to concentrate a lot to write and gets tired easily.

 

My 9 year old's reading has greatly improved since we started AAS. He can read multisyllable words by sounding out but does it slowly and sometimes has to say it a few times to get it. On Friday he was able to sound out words like hysterical and sympathetic in PP. He reads out loud at a slow pace but is improving in fluency.

 

So do you think that the reading portion of Barton would be too easy for them and that AAS is enough for them as that is their main struggle? I can tell that the OG approach of AAS is working wonders as they have never responded so well to a spelling program before. I want to do what is best for them but if I can accomplish that without spending the money on Barton I would like to. Eventually I would like to do the teacher training and possibly be a Barton tutor for other children but would probably purchase it later if my dc don't need it.

 

Having never seen Barton I just am not sure what to do. What I am doing seems to be working but I am not sure if it is complete enough. Am I missing something that would help them?

 

How much of the Barton lessons are focused on spelling vs reading? What is included in the reading portion? I didn't see any demos of the reading portion on her website, only the spelling, which seemed very similar to AAS. Is writing instruction and practice included in Barton? My 9 yr old is still reversing letters and numbers after 4 years of handwriting instruction and has a lot of trouble staying on the line. I watch his copywork and dictation in WWE and correct everything as he goes.

 

I emailed Susan about the possibility of taking the post tests and placing in a higher level of Barton and am waiting to hear back from her. Would the later levels of Barton be beneficial even if the earlier ones were too easy?

Edited by Lori in MS
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My 10 year old is reading the WWE3 passages out loud to me with good speed and fluency. He occasionally stumbles over a multisyllable word and tries to guess what it is but when I stop him to break it down by syllables and sound it out he can do it well. He also reads a lot on his own and can tell me about the books so has good reading comprehension. When he reads silently he has to concentrate a lot and reads much more slowly than his older brothers. His main struggles are spelling and that his writing, although perfect in form, is slow. He has to concentrate a lot to write and gets tired easily.

 

Hands down here, Barton would be too much.

 

It sounds like he is a bit dysgraphic. Does he press really hard when he writes? It is a common problem with dysgraihic students. A good fountain pen would help and the kids usually love them. This is where I buy ours, and they are high quality not like the ones I find locally which all seem to start leaking within days.

 

After trying a fountain pen the only solution I have found is typing. I allow my kids who are done with WWE to all type their writing.

 

My 9 year old's reading has greatly improved since we started AAS. He can read multisyllable words by sounding out but does it slowly and sometimes has to say it a few times to get it. On Friday he was able to sound out words like hysterical and sympathetic in PP. He reads out loud at a slow pace but is improving in fluency.

 

So do you think that the reading portion of Barton would be too easy for them and that AAS is enough for them as that is their main struggle? I can tell that the OG approach of AAS is working wonders as they have never responded so well to a spelling program before. I want to do what is best for them but if I can accomplish that without spending the money on Barton I would like to. Eventually I would like to do the teacher training and possibly be a Barton tutor for other children but would probably purchase it later if my dc don't need it.

Here again I think baron would be too much. It isn't just about being easy, it is that the pace is slow. For example level 1 only works on hearing sounds. You start with consonant vowel (CV) words (they purposely use nonsense words, not real words) breaking them apart, then replacing one sound, then comparing two words. Then you do the same but with CVC words , then VCC words, and CCV words. Level 2 introduces short vowels and consonants, covering CVC words and blends. You do have reading here but only of sheets included in the program not of any books. Most of this they do know, there would be nuggets they didn't, but the slow pace will most likely drive them nuts and doing all the work that they already can do easily. Is it really worth the time and frustration? Probably not. Though getting the placement tests and see if you could test them into a higher level is a great idea. Let me know what she says.

 

Barton does include some deeper explanations that AAS skips over, but really these are things the majority of people don't know and read just fine without knowing them. It is hard to weigh the benefit for time invested not having done it. Barton also teaches how to use a handheld electronic spell checker.

 

 

How much of the Barton lessons are focused on spelling vs reading? What is included in the reading portion? I didn't see any demos of the reading portion on her website, only the spelling, which seemed very similar to AAS. Is writing instruction and practice included in Barton? My 9 yr old is still reversing letters and numbers after 4 years of handwriting instruction and has a lot of trouble staying on the line. I watch his copywork and dictation in WWE and correct everything as he goes.

 

So far, and I am only in level 2, it is 50/50. No writing instruction is included. They do have some great tricks for reversals and purposely train the child (like it or not) to check every time they see problem letters. That meas even if the child races ahead and gets it right this time you make them stop and check till it is so automatic they check every single time.

 

You could add this to AAS. I assume the Barton method is copyrighted, but before that I used the bed method. Have the child make a bed by placing their fists together with their thumbs up. B starts the words and follows the lines of the thumb (back of the b and the fist, the ball of the b), and the d is at the end of the word and (again you have the fist as the circle of the d, and the thumb as the stick, or back of the d). Turn it upside down and you have p and q. Their key word for remembering p comes fist is uPside down (emphasize the pronunciation in the P).

 

Would the later levels of Barton be beneficial even if the earlier ones were too easy?

Barton has an unusual sequence, so that is hard to answer. For example I believe they don't cover vowel silent e till level 6. But level 4 goes heavily into unaccented syllables that create schwa sounds. Most people just accept that all vowels can morph into the /u/ sound (soda, about, telephone, incident, occur). They memorize the correct spellings or learn to produce the words one way for spelling and the correct way for regular speech, which is the approach that AAS takes. In AAS you would use long a (to follow syllable rules): /A/bout for spelling and say the short u for regular pronunciation. Barton teaches the child to figure out which syllable is stressed and thus when a vowel would likely make the schwa /u/ instead of the correct sound. Keep in mind I don't entirely get how Barton teaches it, given I haven't done that level yet, so I might not be doing it justice. :D

 

Do you think that pronouncing for spelling will work, or that your kids would do better with the more detailed and accurate explanation?

 

Heather

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Do you think that pronouncing for spelling will work, or that your kids would do better with the more detailed and accurate explanation?

 

Heather

 

I think that pronouncing for spelling might work, but I'm not sure.

 

BTW, what are the teacher training dvds in Barton like?

 

Thank you for all of your help!

Edited by Lori in MS
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I still would like to know what the teacher training in Barton is like. I am also researching other less expensive options that would move at a faster pace.

 

My dc are improving greatly in their reading but there may be a few gaps as they did not use an O/G phonics program. Their decoding skills could be improved upon. I want to fill in all the gaps.

 

Will AAS do this for me or do I need something else?

 

 

I have looked at these programs. Can someone tell me which of these is easiest to use and might be what I am looking for?

 

Language Tune Up Kit http://orton-gillingham.com/frmParents.aspx

 

Preventing Academic Failure the complete program or maybe just the readers for practice?

 

Wilson's Reading System

 

Reading Horizons What about the computer software version that they could do independantly after I work with them one on one with AAS? Or the complete version including teacher instruction and software.

 

http://athome.readinghorizons.com

 

 

I am also interested in training in the O/G methods either online or at a seminar that would be cheaper than Barton. I am so new at this. I am trying to find out all of my options and learn how to do it myself as there are no O/G tutors in my area.

 

 

If you know of any other programs that might be what I am looking for please let me know. Thanks!

Edited by Lori in MS
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I still would like to know what the teacher training in Barton is like. I am also researching other less expensive options that would move at a faster pace.

 

My dc are improving greatly in their reading but there may be a few gaps as they did not use an O/G phonics program. Their decoding skills could be improved upon. I want to fill in all the gaps.

 

Will AAS do this for me or do I need something else?

 

To date AAS seems pretty thorough. The hard thing about gaps, is that they can develop just because a child didn't get something when it was presented, or because they later forget. Also keep in mind that many kids make logical leaps that dyslexic children do not. These programs are designed to teach those in-between steps. But not every dyslexic will need each in-between step, sometimes they will be able to make the logical leaps and different program might focus on different in-between steps. One thing that makes Barton such a strong program is Susan was certified in 7 different o/g programs before she wrote Barton Reading and Spelling. But that also means it was created to go farther and deeper into those in-between steps than other programs, for the kids that need it laid out to that degree. If your kids are already reading, it generally demonstrates they can make enough of the logical leaps that they don't need the depth of Barton. Make sense?

 

I have looked at these programs. Can someone tell me which of these is easiest to use and might be what I am looking for?

 

Language Tune Up Kit http://orton-gillingham.com/frmParents.aspx

 

I haven't looked into this one, I would ask on the yahoo group: Heart of Reading.

Preventing Academic Failure the complete program or maybe just the readers for practice?

 

If you are looking to fill in all the gaps you want the full program, but that said I have heard more than one person say the TM is a little disorganized and hard to follow.

 

Wilson's Reading System

 

This is probably the most popular program after Barton. It is similar to Barton but moves more quickly if needed and has less of a focus on spelling. As I said earlier, several people who have finished it still did AAS afterward. Not all, so maybe some people emphasized spelling more? Not sure, again you could ask on the Heart of Reading. The list owner started with Barton and moved to Wilson.

 

Reading Horizons What about the computer software version that they could do independantly after I work with them one on one with AAS? Or the complete version including teacher instruction and software.

The online version is not an o/g program. The versions that are o/g are what they refer to as the direct instruction versions.

 

The hard thing about the computer versions is they rely mostly on visual processing, and if your child has visual processing issues, then the whole programs is going to break down.

 

There are a couple that aren't on your list that I have heard good things about. Sonday Reading System and Recipe for Reading. The last one is more of a how to make your own program, which is why it is so much cheaper.

 

Heather

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Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.

 

I am using Barton with my dd who has just been diagnosed with dyslexia at age 11. She is a good reader and enjoys it. She is a horrible speller, despite years of hard work with many recommended spelling programs. The problems showed up in her reading as the words got more difficult.

 

We worked through Barton Levels 1,2 and 3 very quickly. It slowed her down and taught her to carefully sound out each word. The physical actions of finger spelling and pulling tiles down really seem to be helping. Her spelling is improving exponentially already. As we are working through Level 4 now, I see that she really doesn't intuit a lot about language and the Barton system is really helping her learn those things.

 

We probably are atypical, but thought I would put in another viewpoint.

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Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.

 

I am using Barton with my dd who has just been diagnosed with dyslexia at age 11. She is a good reader and enjoys it. She is a horrible speller, despite years of hard work with many recommended spelling programs. The problems showed up in her reading as the words got more difficult.

 

We worked through Barton Levels 1,2 and 3 very quickly. It slowed her down and taught her to carefully sound out each word. The physical actions of finger spelling and pulling tiles down really seem to be helping. Her spelling is improving exponentially already. As we are working through Level 4 now, I see that she really doesn't intuit a lot about language and the Barton system is really helping her learn those things.

 

We probably are atypical, but thought I would put in another viewpoint.

 

Thank you for your input. How long per day do you do it? I have 2 children who would use it one on one with me at different times and am trying to figure out how to fit in into our schedule. Also how many days per week? Do you mind telling how long it took for each level? I was thinking that they could do a lesson a day in the early levels which would mean they would be finished with levels 1-3 in a few weeks.

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We finish a lesson in a day. Most days it takes between 30 and 45 minutes at this point. I will limit it to an hour- that's at Susan Barton's recommendation. We do 4 days a week.

 

We finished Level One in several days. I strongly suggest that you order that level from Barton directly. I called when we finished and they shipped out Level Two to us at no charge, even paying shipping for it and the Level One return! Level Two was also really quick. Level Three took several weeks. Now Level Four is about one lesson per day, but it's taking longer, so I expect the pace to really slow down now.

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I emailed Susan Barton. She responded quickly even though she is out of town on a conference. She said because I had already been doing AAS that she would send me the posttests to use as pretests. She sent them to me for levels 1, 2, and 3. Just by looking at them, it looks like my 9 year old will place in level 3, but we'll see after I give them to him. She told me if they passed them all easily, she would send me the test for level 4.

 

I have a question about level 3. Even if they can read the words well etc, would it be valuable to do just for the spelling rules? I noticed there were quite a few spelling rules in 3. Also, do you need the tiles from previous levels to use in the later levels? If I buy level 3 will I have all the tiles I need or will I need the tiles from levels 1 and 2? That may be a problem as you can only buy extra tiles for levels that you own.

 

ETA: Wow, the posttests are more difficult than they look. My 9 yr old placed in level 1.

Edited by Lori in MS
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So glad you got the answers you needed. Even though we raced through Level One, it was helpful in learning all of the routines that you use in all of the Levels.

 

And yes, you do need all the tiles up to that point for each level. I just order an extra set of tiles with each level so that I can keep one and sell one with the set when we finish.

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While you are trying to figure it out, you could try my free online lessons and the syllable division rules and worksheets on my how to tutor page:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

I have also found the nonsense words used in my game helpful for many of my struggling students, you could give it a try, too, it is linked at the end of my how to tutor page.

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Adding my two cents -

 

I have met a few people who did Barton with their kids who were already reading, in order to remediate gaps. You can move pretty quickly through the parts that your children have already mastered. You can adapt the pace by doing less practice or more practice within each section.

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While you are trying to figure it out, you could try my free online lessons and the syllable division rules and worksheets on my how to tutor page:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

I have also found the nonsense words used in my game helpful for many of my struggling students, you could give it a try, too, it is linked at the end of my how to tutor page.

 

Thank you for this!

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I am glad I ended up being wrong! I hope you enjoy Barton's.

 

Heather

 

Well you were right about my 11 yr old. I am going to keep him in AAS. My 9 yr old may have done okay without Barton, but I want the training so I decided to try it. Thank you for all of your responses. They really helped me think it all through as I was making my decision.

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