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Head butting... arghhhh


mommy4ever
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DD11 and i are at it again. She asked for help. I read everything over, and pointed her in the right direction. She wasn't impressed of course, she wanted me to give her the answer.

 

Down the line, she is telling me that 2 don't have anything(bible verses was my impression by where she is pointing). So I told her to use the other bible, and look in that, as the wording may be different. She told me no, you don't understand. And repeated herself again, showing me the verses. It doesn't tell her if it's in the new or old testament. I told her to look in the table of contents to see if her other bible has them. She starts crying and yelling at me that I don't understand.

 

Now, this gets my goat every time. I get harsh. If i stay soft spoken, she gets worse. I HATE it.

 

Tears will NOT help me help her. And she does it often. I'm tired of it. Today, I had to really fight to no go off on her. It told her if this is how she it going to deal with me misunderstanding her, homeschooling wasn't going to work. Repeating the exact same thing and expecting a different answer, won't work. Crying and having a tantrum definitely won't work.

 

She's going to burn me out.

 

NOTHING was wrong, what was needed was for her to look at what she was pointing at. Look what she is doing. And she'd have gone...ooppppsss. But instead she got upset.

 

I don't know know what to do with her.

 

On the upside, the 13yo, is a natural homeschooler. It's going great.

 

DD6 is still a bit of a challenge, but when she hears, "I'm sorry, you don't get to quit because you didn't get it the first try. It takes practice." She knows mom has her stubborn hat on so she sits down, and usually a couple minutes later she's excited she has it figured out.

 

But the 11 yo is going to drive me crazy.

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I hear you completely. Same thing happening here with dd12, but usually only on certain subjects. Same with dd10, certain subjects. Even though it is only certain things, it just seems so overly dramatic. I was just telling my dh last night that I don't know how much longer after this year that I want to keep the oldest one home...I don't really know what to do or if there is anything I can. My intuition tells me that I need to figure out a way to get through it without losing My head and that we will indeed survive this stage, but it is no walk in the park. I am listening for some good 'survival' techniques.:bigear: Hang in there!

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"I'm sorry, you don't get to quit because you didn't get it the first try. It takes practice."

 

Around here attitudes like that mean you do get to quit. Of course what you get to do then is sit on your bed or in the corner until you are ready to come back and do school cheerfully.

 

I don't deal with those attitudes- if you show up for class like that then you are told to shape up or leave (I might give a you few seconds to pull yourself together or ask if you'd rather go run around the house a couple times).

 

And if you don't get school done when I am ready and able then you miss out on lots of things as the week goes by (scouts, tumbling, video games on weekends, free Thursday mornings- whatever we have planned)- instead you end up spending lots of time sitting on your bed.

 

If one of my kids is having a hard time (and they all cycle through) then I try to find sometime to talk with them when we are both feeling better. It might be later that day it might not be for a couple days, but we will talk about how they can come to school nicely. Maybe they need to sleep or eat better, maybe they need to notice when they are getting to the end of thier paitience and ask for a break or a chance to exercise.

 

Ultimately there isn't any way you can make her act right, she has to want to act right. Around here the way that works is school has to get done before fun things, and if you need me to get school done then you have to act right. I am responsible for making myself available enough time every week that you could get school done, and they are responsible for doing school cheerfully then.

 

Today, I had to really fight to no go off on her.
I know how you feel. Some times it is a real struggle for me to stay impartial (and sometimes I don't), but it is important and part of turning the responsibility of school over to her. It is easier when I can be sympathetic about how they miss this activity and that is too bad, then for me to be worring about how to get all of school finished when Fri morning was spoiled by a bad attitude.
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Let me say I have felt your pain!!!:grouphug:

With my oldest this starting around 11-12 and she still hasn't gotten over it at 18. I figure I have a few years to go yet. The only thing I can tell you is that we need to be the adults in the situation. Don't let her make you lose your cool because then you aren't acting any better than her. And trust me I know how hard this is. It seems somewhere around this age is when all the dramatics really start in. Dd11 is starting there now. However over the years we have developed very clear punishment for this type of disrespect and it normally only takes one reminder to snap her back in line. Just keep plugging, try not to lose it and maybe lock the door and take a nice long hot bath!!!!!

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Around here attitudes like that mean you do get to quit. Of course what you get to do then is sit on your bed or in the corner until you are ready to come back and do school cheerfully.

 

I don't deal with those attitudes- if you show up for class like that then you are told to shape up or leave (I might give a you few seconds to pull yourself together or ask if you'd rather go run around the house a couple times).

 

And if you don't get school done when I am ready and able then you miss out on lots of things as the week goes by (scouts, tumbling, video games on weekends, free Thursday mornings- whatever we have planned)- instead you end up spending lots of time sitting on your bed.

 

 

 

DD6 would happily stay in her room and play with her fingers and toes :001_huh: however, letting her leave the situation, makes it worse. It's better for her to be told to sit down, suck it up and do it. Otherwise it gets worse and worse. It becomes a ploy to not do the work.

 

We don't have anything scheduled right now, nothing starts right now. To keep her from.

 

But I totally see what you are saying. She's been my drama queen from the get go, from infancy. She's been a difficult personality. She wouldn't be with anyone but me, not dad, not grandparents, it had to be me, until she was 3. It was so bad at 6 mo, she was crawling into the shower because she couldn't bare to be separated from me by the shower curtain :lol:.

 

IMO, her tool of choice, is tears. Dad can't stand them so she gets her way, even though he's angry. I've been talking to him about it, but he doesn't see it. His mom does..lol. She won't ask me if she thinks the answer is no, as tears don't cut it..... she goes to dad. If I have told her no and she goes to dad...she now knows better..lol. Grounded!

 

But I can't get her to quit. I have told her tears are fine, if you're frustrated, take a few minutes go to your room, calm down, come back with fresh eyes. Not as a way to get your way. Not to make everyone miserable with her.

 

one day we'll figure it... it's just kinda nice to see she's not the only one.

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How did you end up with an exact copy of my dd11?

 

When I first pulled her out of ps we had 3 months of school that needed to be completed. After 2 weeks I gave her a couple of workbooks and told her to let me know when she was ready to have a better attitude. I didn't know why on earth I thought I could homeschool this one. That was the end of 4th grade. I left her alone which now I know was probably best so she could have a period of adjustment. 5th grade started off better but swiftly went downhill. She is a master at emotional manipulation and she had me completely in a tizzy. She thrived on the show I gave her and when I didn't give her a show she would ramp it up even more. She realized that school time was the perfect opportunity to throw her emotions all over the place, and possibly felt that since a lot of it was hard for her, she was justified. Towards the end of 5th I laid down the law with her. I told her that if she couldn't keep her emotions in check and if she couldn't maintain at least a neutral attitude I wouldn't teach her. I told her that going back to ps was not an option at that time. She asked how she was going to learn and I told her that it would be her problem. I went on to explain that I understood that she was the type of person that is easily frustrated and that there were school things that were difficult for her but that I would be patient and understanding and not give up on her until she got it. But, that just like when I pulled her out of school, if she gave me a hard time I would hand her the books and she would be on her own. I also gave her some tools to use for when she felt overwhelmed and frustrated. We wrote out a contract of expectations. (mine and hers)

 

Things were good again for awhile but then she began to test me. The first time she started pitching a fit I gave her a warning and pulled out the contract and made her read it. Much of it was her own words and ideas. She settled down for about a week. Then one day she pitched a doozy of a fit over math. I closed my TM handed it to her, told her that she obviously didn't want my help, told the oldest to watch the little ones for a while and went upstairs to my room and locked the door. Partly because I wanted to scream at her and partly because I didn't want her to be able to suck me into her drama and get any reaction out of me. I went back down about 20 minutes later and told her that I understood that she hated math and that I would love to be able to tell her that she didn't have to do it but that I would be guilty of not doing my job if I allowed that. It took two days of her trying to do her work on her own before she apologized and I resumed teaching her.

 

We had several more of these little scenarios after that but they were fewer and farther between. Along the way she learned to recognize when she was about to 'loose it' and would sometimes be able to ask to be excused for a while. Now, she's in 6th, and she has only had one blow up so far this year. I closed my book and started to stand up and she immediately apologized and asked for a break.

 

I think three things happened. One; I showed her through perseverance that she could not emotionally manipulate me any longer. There was absolutely no show and I would remove myself from her presence so she couldn't even get at me by her facial expressions or body language.

 

Two; She realized that I meant business when I said I wouldn't teach her, and she knew ps was not an option. Me not teaching her did not absolve her of getting her work done. If she didn't do it then it piled up and she would end up with no free time until she caught back up.

 

Three; She learned to either control her emotions or at least excuse herself when she was feeling overwhelmed. She would usually go into the bathroom to calm down. Total darkness with the faucet running.

 

She is still VERY emotional. Cries easily, doesn't deal well when plans change, wants to know every possible scenario for every event, hates being told "I don't know, we will have to wait and see", gets her feelings hurt very easily...the list goes on and on. I can't change the person she is so I try to give her the tools to handle it but I'm also very firm about her not using those emotions to manipulate everyone around her.

 

:grouphug: to you, I can definitely relate.

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How did you end up with an exact copy of my dd11?

 

 

:grouphug: to you, I can definitely relate.

 

April baby??? lol.. maybe twins separated at birth?

 

What you describe is very much my dd11. She can be A-W-E-S-O-M-E, but she can be whatever the extreme opposite of that.

 

She too is very difficult to adapt to change. She once cried for 3 days(she was 3) every time she looked at our piano. I'd put pics on it, where there'd been none before.

 

She is very sensitive too.

 

I could send her back to school. But of the 3 home, she is the one that really NEEDS to be home, so it really isn't an option, although there are days I'd love to.(does that make me bad?).

 

I'm going to institute a mommy time out when I feel her getting to me. Because my temper isn't often seen ... but she is the ONE who can do it. And since we are together alot, which I truly do love, she's fine tuning her techniques..lol.

 

Thinking of the workbox system, maybe I'll make her a card that says serenity on it... as a non-verbal cue for her to take 5 and calm down before coming 'at' me again.

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It was so bad at 6 mo, she was crawling into the shower because she couldn't bare to be separated from me by the shower curtain :lol:.

 

:lol: cute!

 

 

But I can't get her to quit. I have told her tears are fine, if you're frustrated, take a few minutes go to your room, calm down, come back with fresh eyes. Not as a way to get your way. Not to make everyone miserable with her.

 

one day we'll figure it... it's just kinda nice to see she's not the only one.

 

One thing that helped my kids was to outline what is and isn't ok. Raised voices, throwing things, pounding things, not ok. List the exact behavior she does, where does it cross the line. Then if she does that behavior, don't answer her question, simply say, "you're yelling." See if she can rephrase if she wants to, otherwise, she may go to her room and calm down as you have been having her do. However, when she comes back, she should ask for forgiveness for the inappropriate action. I tell my kids, "come back when you are ready to ask for forgiveness, and we'll try again."

 

Another thing that helped was to outline what IS ok--give her some "tools" in her "self-control toolbox." This made me look at how *I* handle frustration--was I modeling some of the behavior I don't like? Unfortunately, the answer is yes. (For example, if I've lost my keys and I'm late to somewhere, I become a raving lunatic!). So...I found I had things to work on too! But other times when I'm frustrated, I do things like take a 5-minute break, go for a short walk or do some other form of exercise to get out some of that energy (shooting hoops, jump rope, bounce on a rebounder or trampoline--find something she likes that she could do for just a few minutes), get a drink of water, go to the bathroom, and then ask for help, etc... Brainstorm what kinds of things help you, and then sometime--not when she's upset--talk about the idea of a self-control toolbox and ask her to think about what would help her keep self-control when she's frustrated. We all get frustrated, so you can't eliminate that--the sooner she understands that the better. But we can learn more about what helps us--and the things that help you may or may not be the things that help her. So she will need to do some thinking and experimenting with this as well.

 

As she does, praise her any time you catch her using a good strategy, or making progress even if it's not perfect--towards keeping self control.

 

When she does have a tantrum etc..., later after she calms down ask, "what could you have done differently?" and see if you can get her to voice some of them. This is the kind of thing that will take lots of training over time (as I'm sure you've realized!).

 

Another kind of conversation I would have with her is about the kind of help she wants. Ask her, "Sometimes when you're struggling and I try to help, we end up just butting heads. What are some things I could do that would help you more?" This way she can try to communicate what her needs are. If you make a suggestion and she doesn't want to try it, you can say, "what would you like me to do?" or, "If that won't help, what do you think will help?" That way you aren't repeating the same suggestion over, and she isn't repeating the same question (hopefully). Another thing I've done is to say, "I'm sorry, I must not be understanding what you mean. Can you try to say it in a different way?" Then she sees that you are trying to meet her where she's at, but that she needs to do something different in order to help you meet her. I'll also say, "You know, we don't seem to be understanding each other. Let's take a 5 minute break and [get a snack/drink of water/do something that would help], and then maybe we can try again."

 

This way, instead of turning the conversation into a power struggle where no one wins, you can use some positive strategies to try to work with each other.

 

HTH some! Merry :-)

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April baby??? lol.. maybe twins separated at birth?

Nope, but close, March.

I could send her back to school. But of the 3 home, she is the one that really NEEDS to be home, so it really isn't an option, Mine was failing 4th grade in ps, but actually is thriving academically at home. although there are days I'd love to.(does that make me bad?). No, it doesn't make me...I mean you, bad. It makes us human. No one likes to get dumped on especially when it comes from the most precious things in our lives.

 

maybe I'll make her a card that says serenity on it... as a non-verbal cue for her to take 5 and calm down before coming 'at' me again. This is a great idea. I may steal that one.

 

Here's another one of these :grouphug: just because.

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IME, 11 was a tough age for my dd. Her hormones (still very early in puberty at that point) were obviously raging. She was very delicate and would burst into tears of frustration at the drop of a hat.

 

I found that I had to be very gentle, allow her more control over her daily routine, and, be very gentle, and, be very gentle. Oh, also, be very gentle. Express sympathy. Go ahead and hold her hand a bit when she requests it. Go ahead and help her find the page. Express sympathy with how frustrated she is.

 

Allowing her the freedom to step away, take a break in quiet, etc, helped a great deal. Allowing her more control of her time was a biggie as well.

 

11 is *hard* for some dds. . . (My ds seems more sturdy at 11 than dd was.)

 

HTH

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:iagree:

 

There must be some kind of a 10 step program out there for homeschooling mothers of 11 year old daughters!;)

 

OOOHHH...let me know if you find one because I have two more coming up behind this one. And what scares me is that the 2 year old makes my 11 year old look like a wallflower. :eek:

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