Apologia's Accuracy

[Lovedtodeath]

I was told by a friend about apologia "The science they taught

was questionable and in some cases, I thought, silly. I ended up thinking "no wonder educated people think those of us who believe in the Bible are idiots."

 

Thoughts?

[forwardbyfaith]

Did your friend give any specifics? I have used the elementary books and thought they were very sound.

[G5052]

If you search on my login, you'll see that I'm not a fan of Apologia in general for 7th and up (I think the lower-level books are fine for that age). It's just not as in-depth as I'd like to see for an academic Christian science curriculum, and it reflects the author's priorities and biases a bit more than other textbooks that are written by a group of authors with more extensive review and edits. If you compare the content line-by-line with other curriculum for 7th and up, there's a difference. For all the stories of kids who do great with it in college (which I have no doubt of), I still say that it's on the light side content-wise and that kids who use it need to think through the creationist arguments more thoroughly than they provide and read other resources (including conflicting ones) before they go to college.

 

I personally wouldn't have a problem using it with my children -- BUT I'd suplement for 7th and up and write my own exams.

[Lovedtodeath]

I am asking her for specifics now. She did not use the program, but went to a seminar about it. :001_huh:One thing she may have a problem with is that though she and I believe in creation, we do not believe that everything was created in 7 24 hour days. We believe each "day" was figurative and lasted for many years.

 

Thanks for all the info!:)

[forwardbyfaith]

These books definitley are young earth creation so that is probably why your friend was turned off by them.

[Lovedtodeath]

That explains it! She says she would rather deal with explaining evolution to her kids than to have them confused by young earth thinking. Not my cup of tea. I would rather not have the word "evolved" on every page. Even if you refute it, there is a bit of brainwashing there in my opinion. Thanks for the help!

[Sasharowan]

If you search on my login, you'll see that I'm not a fan of Apologia in general for 7th and up (I think the lower-level books are fine for that age). It's just not as in-depth as I'd like to see for an academic Christian science curriculum, and it reflects the author's priorities and biases a bit more than other textbooks that are written by a group of authors with more extensive review and edits. If you compare the content line-by-line with other curriculum for 7th and up, there's a difference. For all the stories of kids who do great with it in college (which I have no doubt of), I still say that it's on the light side content-wise and that kids who use it need to think through the creationist arguments more thoroughly than they provide and read other resources (including conflicting ones) before they go to college.

 

Can you recommend some good texts for 7th and up that are academically strong?

[LilyK]

Please recommend some good Christian curriculum for us. Preferably 7th grade and up. Are Bob Jones and Abeka any good at that level?

 

Thanks

[LadyAberlin]

Do you think that they still don't cover enough if you are able to manage to take all the advanced courses as well?

[Kate CA]

Do you think that they still don't cover enough if you are able to manage to take all the advanced courses as well?

 

I have had friends tell me that their children *only* used Apologia and excelled in the math and science fields in college. It was also shared that they were *more* prepared and well-versed in college science than their otherwise-instructed counterparts. I can tell you from my own experience with my currently-using-Apologia-General-Science child--she is *learning* science. She is excelling and really loving it.

 

We are unapologetically young earth, but that is only a small part of his overall curriculum. My daughter is well beyond my expectations and is in fact truly enjoying science with amazing retention. That is something I never did or even cared to do! His lessons engage her and make her think and she loves them.

 

The younger levels are totally engaging my younger children and have made me enjoy science for the first time ever. If you don't believe that God made the world you will probably not like the curriculum. However if that does not bother you then it is highly likely you will.

 

I have heard far more good things about Apologia from people who would well and truly know. I have no fears whatsoever that we will not cover what we need to with Apologia. We absolutely are. :)

[Linda in NE]

I had reservations as well, but looked over the books at convention and decided we will be fine with them. The parts I previewed in General Science and Physical Science that dealt with creation were definitely young earth, but the old earth view was mentioned -- Hugh Ross was mentioned by name, for example -- and there was nothing in there that said "if you are old earth, you can't possibly be a Christian," which is what I feared.

 

My boys are aware how our beliefs differ from what is in the books. We've discussed it. We'll continue to discuss it as we go along. I'm not thrilled with the curriculum for this reason, but I don't think their world view will be threatened. What mainstream science I saw in my preview was well-presented, and that went a long way toward soothing my concerns.

[G5052]

Please recommend some good Christian curriculum for us. Preferably 7th grade and up. Are Bob Jones and Abeka any good at that level?

 

Thanks

 

I'll state it again. Apologia is a decent curriculum. It works great for families who don't have a technical parent around to help and limited resources. If you do both the basic and advanced programs, you do have a more complete program. You child can go on to do fine in college science.

 

However (ah the howevers...):

 

 

• If you use only the basic books, you don't cover as much as many college prep-programs outside of homeschooling circles

• He doesn't cover all sides of the creationism debate as thoroughly as I'd like

• The provided exams and quizzes don't require a lot of critical thinking and are short

• The labs are short and are sometime more like demonstrations, their recommended ways of writing them up are too abbreviated IMHO

 

 

I'm saying this as one who has read all of the Apologia books and compared, and as one who has talked to homeschool parents and my CC professor friends who have taught them (I teach computer science/web development). Several years ago I worked through the entire physics book in preparation for teaching it locally, but the class didn't make.

 

I like BJUP science a lot, but I wouldn't recommend it for non-technical parents unless you use Homesat/DVDs. The material covered is good, and the labs are tough. I also like Singapore and the WTM recommendations. I personally don't have a problem using a secular text for science and having them do related research on creationism. The ideal for me though is to have your child take high school science in a class with someone who knows the topic and who will have higher expectations for the labs. That seems to make a huge difference.

 

Stepping back to dodge the tomatoes...

[ncmomo3]

GVA--thanks for the info.

I've had some questions rolling around for sometime about what to do for science and you have been very helpful. I will gladly GIVE you a whole basket of tomatoes for the help. :001_smile:

[Jen S in Va]

I

I like BJUP science a lot, but I wouldn't recommend it for non-technical parents unless you use Homesat/DVDs. The material covered is good, and the labs are tough.

 

My older two children have used the BJ science books exclusively since 7th grade. They are excellent courses--extremely thorough. Because I am not a science person, we have made use of the LINC classes. Also, we have multiple kids in our church who are right around the same age. We formed a homeschool support group, purchased the lab materials for each grade level as a group, and have done the labs for each course physical world through physics (9th-12th grades). We wrapped up biology a few weeks ago by getting a bio major from the congregation to lead the dissection labs. Next year, it's on to chemistry for our second batch of students. My oldest has graduated and is in college majoring in mech engineering. He has already taken chemistry and physics and has not expressed that he did not feel prepared for his classes--he's on dean's list.

[Aunty Social]

I've used many different science programs over the three years I've been hs, and while some have been good (and some not so good!), I really think Apologia is one of the better ones out there. If you don't believe God created the earth, or if you don't want to take the time to explain that every book written is influenced by the writer's personal beliefs, then it may not be for you. Academically, it seems sound. My daughters are learning a lot - including good study habits and critical evaluation - from these books. I like the fact that the author also makes clear that he has personal beliefs, and while he tries not to let them influence his writing, that the reader should evaluate and make their own decisions (particularly on young/old earth, catastrophism/uniformitarianism and other "hot topics"). That is only in the higher level books, however. In the elementary books, you need to make that clear to your child. This has never been a problem for us, because we take that approach with all of our schoolwork. History, science, literature, all are written by humans, and all are subject to their viewpoint. Read 3 books about anything, written by 3 different people, living in 3 different countries, and you'll get 3 different stories! It's up to you to piece it together.

[LadyAberlin]

I do want to add that my friend has taught homeschool science classes for many years. She used BJU for many years and then switched to Apologia which she felt was better. So to each his own I guess:) I guess if you are really serious about science you should just do the upper levels.

[SuzyKS]

over the years but Apologia is the only one that comes even close to my belief system and does not seem watered down. I had my Mom who is a college science major look at all our science's through out the years and she is very impressed with the labs and information given in Apologia. My personal view's are that we really don't know if it is old or new earth. We are making an educated guess using science and our belief system, whatever that may be. We have to try to find the right fit for our family but as to the science accuracy Apologia is sound.

I did take a few science courses in college and try to have my dd write her labs like they ask for there. As for the test I think that they would be harder since all the college test's seem to be multiple choice and these they have to think about and write out.

Of course this is all just my opinion. :001_smile:

[Chris in VA]

No tomatoes from me, GVA. I totally agree with you about the labs, particularly.

[LizzyBee]

I like BJUP science a lot, but I wouldn't recommend it for non-technical parents unless you use Homesat/DVDs. The material covered is good, and the labs are tough. I also like Singapore and the WTM recommendations. I personally don't have a problem using a secular text for science and having them do related research on creationism. The ideal for me though is to have your child take high school science in a class with someone who knows the topic and who will have higher expectations for the labs. That seems to make a huge difference.

 

No tomatoes from me, but can I ask another question? You said you like the WTM recommendations; are you referring to the Wiley self-teaching guides? I have the Wiley and Apologia Biology books and I've read parts of both. It seems to me that Apologia includes much more detailed information than Wiley. The Apologia book is at least twice as big as the Wiley book. I'm not arguing with you - you're the science expert and I most definitely am not - but I just wanted to clarify to make sure you're referring to the Wiley books rather than making that assumption.

 

Secondly, if we do use Apologia Biology, can you make any specific recommendations of books we could use as supplements to cover old earth creationism and evolution?

 

Thanks!

[LilyK]

But I want to bother you again. So you like BJU. How about Abeka. Is that just as good? It's just that I plan on doing DVD's and I prefer Abeka DVD's for some other subjects, so if I have a some good feedback about their science, I could get the whole package.

 

I really appreciate everybody's input, especially when people are brave enough to post some dissenting opinions.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[G5052]

Partially because they encourage debate even if their thesis is a little one-sided here and there. I haven't seen their new 4th grade program, but there's some of this in the 5th grade one. They are solidly young earth, but the rest of the content is good and you porbably could work with it. Most of it is just straight creationism.

 

I haven't looked in detail at A Beka in awhile, but I remember thinking that they were more in the "this is how it is" camp versus encouraging thinking.

 

Both BJUP and A Beka have decent exams with open-ended questions and longer problems to work. Some colleges don't allow multiple choice exams in the sciences (the college I went to didn't allow them in ANY subject).

 

In the end though remember that the textbook is not the class. No matter how busy we are, we still need to be the adult and be aware of what our children are learning and see that they are challenged appropriately. Science is a major educational weakness in this country, and unfortunately the same is true in homeschooling circles. None of us can truly say that our children won't need a science foundation for their future studies. The college I work for has a lot of nursing students in their 20's-40's who are wishing they had done more science in high school.

[wide eyes & laughter]

I recently read a post at a Yahoo! (TOG) group where 2 ladies said their dc did *not* do well on the ACT (strong in math/science) after using Apologia.

 

Any pos or negs of others w/dc who also used Apologia and ACT?

 

Curious. Thanks!

[LadyAberlin]

I haven't used Apologia, but I was homeschooled and the only science that I did was read through BJU physical science and read through part of the Biology book and I took saxon physics. I really didn't do a whole lot of science other than reading the books, no experiments or anything. I answered some of the questions and I did really well on the ACT. Because my science background was really pitiful, I would say that if they did poorly on the ACT it wasn't because of the science curriculum.

[Reya]

I was told by a friend about apologia "The science they taught

was questionable and in some cases, I thought, silly. I ended up thinking "no wonder educated people think those of us who believe in the Bible are idiots."

 

Thoughts?

 

Well, their theory of lift in Zoology I was dead wrong, but then again, I've seen the same presentation in a dozen or so "regular" books.

 

Their portrayal of animal cognition as pure instinct is very 17th-century--pure Pascalian philosophy--and quite contrary to much that we now know from neuroscience, etc. I haven't seen that in many regular textbooks.

 

That's as far as we've gotten so far. I'm sure there will be more.

 

Most regular textbooks are silly, poorly written, and grossly inaccurate. Apologia seem mildly better, and the elementary series presents more complex topics at younger grades, so I like it for that reason. They're also more coherent and better organized. The kids like how chatty it is, and using it in conjunction with more "living books" means that we won't "miss" any major topics.

 

(I found a really silly mistake in MPH Science 4, so even foreign publishers are hardly immune!)