If your dc strongly dislike historical fiction and 'good' literature...

[5LittleMonkeys]

how do you manage a literature based history program and "literature" as a subject.

 

This is the last thorn in my side. I have finally matched everyone up with curriculum that they are happy with except for history and literature.

 

I have been working for over two years to get my two oldest used to reading good literature and historical fiction. When they were in ps they apparently were only offered and encouraged to read books that were not exactly thought provoking...some of it was pure fluff. I tried to get books from the library that I thought they would enjoy but if it was a little to 'hard' or wasn't on the AR list they weren't interested.

 

Fast forward to now, I have required historical fiction and good literature to be read since we started homeschooling thinking that their brains would eventually get used to it. Apparently they haven't. They still complain and moan and groan. I am using History Odyssey 2 Middle Ages which has, in my opinion, a moderate reading list. They had to read A Door in the Wall and they complained that they didn't understand it! WHAT! They both have a large vocabulary and are both on level in reading ability. So, I have to assume they just don't like that genre of book and are making excuses...right? Same thing when I assigned The Hobbit. :confused:

 

As you can see this makes a literature based history and even informal Literature a chore. I have to stand on one side of the fence or the other with this because it has consumed enough of my time and patience and I want an end to the constant frustration on my side and theirs. I'm not switching curriclum for history unless I find an extremely amazing non-literature based, cheap alternative. So, I see three choices here. Either they just suck it up and read what I give them (since I have been so accommodating with their other subjects) . I choose only informational, non-fiction books for them to read with their history and forgo Literature reading (they would choose not to have any books to read but that's not happening), or I bury them in historical fiction and good literature to try to reverse what apparently happened in ps.

 

Or, perhaps some of you might have other options that I'm not seeing. Keep in mind that we have been trying the gradually introduce them approach for almost two years. We also do use historical movies when I can find appropriate ones. On one hand I'm irritated because I think they are just being lazy, although they don't complain about their other subjects. Then on the other hand I know there are dc out there that just do not like reading, although they will read books of their choice. I'm sooo confused.:001_huh:

[regentrude]

If my child really hated historical fiction, I would not choose a curriculum that largely relies on reading historical fiction, but find another way of doing history. (Btw, I did not like Door in the Wall either). I think we can't force kids to like this particular genre.

I would, however, insist on reading "real" books for literature. What are the books they choose to read - can you give me an idea? There are so many different kinds of good books out there - if they do not like historical fiction or fantasy, that does not have to be a deal breaker for literature.

[Rosy]

Have you considered doing those books as read-alouds? It could be that they just are struggling to process the information in this format, especially if they weren't expected to do that in PS. Doing it as a read-aloud gives you the opportunity to stop and explain things that they don't understand, and experiencing books as a family is more fun (I think) than reading them on your own. My kids have developed a taste for literature when they hear it that makes them more willing to try it on their own, too.

 

Read-alouds are time consuming...but even if you just did one at a time (pick the one that you most want them to experience), after a while they'll probably be more interested in trying the books you suggest.

 

I would take a gentle approach and introduce stories that you think will interest them and keep your expectations low for a while--make it fun. Call it book club or something. Maybe even do a reward system? I would try not to think of it as laziness--just think of it (love of literature) as something that needs to be taught.

[peacefully]

.

[OregonNative]

I would check out the book packages at HOD. The classical one is really great and even my DD enjoyed the ones we got through. It might not be what your looking for, but I thought it would be worth it to make the suggestion.

 

Good luck:)

[5LittleMonkeys]

If my child really hated historical fiction, I would not choose a curriculum that largely relies on reading historical fiction, but find another way of doing history. Yes, I agree and it was foolish on my part to go with HO but I purchased it with the hopes that the light amount of reading would be doable. I also really like the amount of writing that they assign...I don't use a separate writing curriculum. Alas, now I have it and don't have the $$ to purchase something else.

I would, however, insist on reading "real" books for literature. What are the books they choose to read - can you give me an idea? Well currently dd11 is reading Bunnicula and dd12 is reading Nancy Drew and The Sorcerer's Apprentice series.

 

There are so many different kinds of good books out there - if they do not like historical fiction or fantasy, that does not have to be a deal breaker for literature. I have tried many different genres of books. Rifles for Watie, Call of the Wild, Robinson Caruso, Black Beauty, The Railway Children, King of the Wind, Witch of Blackbird Pond, Understood Betsy, The Phantom Tollbooth...

 

I have tried read-alouds and they both said they didn't like them, ditto with audio books. I can't help but think they are just being difficult...the little dears.:glare:

 

Maybe I just need to selct more current authors...possibly they just don't like 'old' books, although Nancy Drew isn't exactly new. :confused:

[Irishmommy]

My son is an avid reader of everything except what is assigned. This last book he told me he "read" it, but could not tell me anything that happened in the book, so I am reading it chapter by chapter with him. This is a "love" type story, so it doesn't interest him, but I really felt like it was time for him to experience reading for an assignment. I am having him illustrate and write two sentences about each chapter.

[robsiew]

I think there's a fine line to walk here. On the one hand, you want your kids to read quality literature. On the other hand, you want them to enjoy reading.

 

We do what many have suggested. I assign ALL school reading. They do not get to choose. In fact, my oldest is reading The Door in the Wall now! I'm not sure how that would work if I hadn't started out that way though.

 

I do the tougher classics on audio. Maybe I'm just lucky, but all my kids love listening to audio stories. We listen to them over lunch. It serves multiple purposes, not the least of keeping calm during lunch time! :001_huh:

 

I also have each of my children read out loud to me. I usually choose the books above their current level of reading for this. We don't do it for long... just about 10 min. each day, but maybe starting with this might work? If the problem is comprehension then you could clarify and help.

 

Right now my older two are reading versions of Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet to me. They are children's versions so they aren't overly difficult reading, but of course, they are a bit tricky context wise. So, they are reading them aloud to me and we are both enjoying the stories. I can explain things that might have otherwise gone misunderstood.

 

I think it's a slow process... especially if your children have had a different experience in PS. Maybe start with some classics that are below their reading level, yet enjoyable just to get them enjoying reading worthwhile literature. :001_smile:

 

PS... and if you've tried all this, personally... I would just be "mean mom" and make them. Sorry. I would!

[KathyBC]

So, I see three choices here. Either they just suck it up and read what I give them (since I have been so accommodating with their other subjects) . I choose only informational, non-fiction books for them to read with their history and forgo Literature reading (they would choose not to have any books to read but that's not happening), or I bury them in historical fiction and good literature to try to reverse what apparently happened in ps.

 

>snip>

Then on the other hand I know there are dc out there that just do not like reading, although they will read books of their choice. I'm sooo confused.:001_huh:

 

If they will read non-fiction for history, and books of their own choosing in their free time, I would go with your second choice and put an end to the constant frustration. I wouldn't totally forgo literature - maybe assign one book a semester and call it good enough.

 

I know a couple families with this dilemma. Their kids are passionate about other things and are very good at them. If we can ensure our kids are exposed to some acceptable level of cultural literacy, I think that's sometimes the best we can do.

Edited September 24, 2010 by KathyBC

[KathyBC]

Read-alouds are time consuming...but even if you just did one at a time (pick the one that you most want them to experience), after a while they'll probably be more interested in trying the books you suggest.

 

 

:iagree: Now there's an idea that can be pursued completely separately from school time. If you can find a book your whole family can enjoy hearing, even if it's not classical literature per se, maybe read it at bedtime so no one's too eager to move on to something else ;) , and who knows? They may, in time, be willing to follow you on more difficult journeys.

 

I feel like I burned my kids out a bit with some of the SL core 6 read-alouds last year. We took some time off and read stuff they were interested in, particularly some of the Ranger's Apprentice books, and voila... they were willing to sit and finish the particular RA that was so unpopular.

[Skadi]

Have you tried a rewards system? We print up a list of books for the year's time period being studied that are either classics or very historically themed, and for every book on the list they read earns them $10. With twenty books listed, we dangle the carrot over their head that they could potentially earn an extra $200 (a ton of money for, say, a 12 year old) just by reading. The catch is that they must have actually ready it (be able to answer key questions and write a brief essay about the book) in order to get the money...if they skim the book, we skim the reward. ;) Oh, and complaining about the Book Rewards ("This book is stupid, I can't wait to get through with it to get my reward") is a deal breaker. They can put the book down if they really hate that much and choose another book if they want, but whining about a book means they don't get paid for it.

 

After they've read it, they may find out that they actually like it. And I'm willing to pay $10 to get them to try to read things they would otherwise feel like they have to read and then complain about.

[choirfarm]

It may be hard at first for your 11 and 12yo, but I STRONGLY suggest you read aloud. Be expressive as you read. My children have been read aloud to since birth almost. And that way you are already starting with your 7 year old. When we were doing Sonlight, I would read the history reading to them at snack time and then the readaloud selection at lunch. They will get SO much more from your reading it as I bet they skip words and passages they don't understand but still get the general gist of the story.

 

When I taught high school, my students just could not comprehend things on their own. I read aloud to them A LOT. It was a favorite class for many of them and they enjoyed it. I use voices and stop and ask questions as I read.

 

I did stop that around junior high age, but now they comprehend tons more after having me model it for years and years. I'm reading aloud to my 8 year old now and still do a family one occassionally, just not every day. Reading while they are eating works really well. I just had to eat earlier!

 

Christine

[Joyofsixreboot]

I just want to say I feel your pain. DS will listen to read alouds/audio books but my 6yo detests them. So far she has disliked and refused to listen through to the end of all, yes all, the Sonlight K read alouds. She even hated Winnie-the-Pooh. She does have a deep love of Junie B Jones. Are some kids just wired for twaddle?

[SBP]

Have you considered doing those books as read-alouds? It could be that they just are struggling to process the information in this format, especially if they weren't expected to do that in PS. Doing it as a read-aloud gives you the opportunity to stop and explain things that they don't understand, and experiencing books as a family is more fun (I think) than reading them on your own. My kids have developed a taste for literature when they hear it that makes them more willing to try it on their own, too.

 

Read-alouds are time consuming...but even if you just did one at a time (pick the one that you most want them to experience), after a while they'll probably be more interested in trying the books you suggest.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

This is our approach. They do have books they have to read on their own, but I still read aloud most of the historical fiction or classics from the time period we're studying. I think they get more from them this way, and we can all experience the book together and have discussions about it. We might not get through as many books this way, but we get a lot more out of the ones we get through.

 

We did HO ancients last year, and I felt that the literature requirements were extremely light. Unless they require significantly more for the middle ages program, I can't imagine that it would be too much to do the books as read-alouds.

 

Good luck in finding something that works for your family :)

 

SBP

[Catherine]

But they tolerate it. I don't force them to finish anything they truly hate (usually, this means they don't understand it). For instance, my 9 yo just told me he hated the Naxos audiobook recording of Kidnapped (it's an abridgement). I can see why-the reader has a lovely Scottish brogue, the vocabulary is hard, the history is hard even for me, so I said fine. We didn't finish it.

 

With some books, I simply RA with them, explaining\researching as we go. I also cut down the number of books we read. I'd rather do a few, in depth, and have them understood, than a longer list of just skimming without comprehension.

[Farrar]

I have tried read-alouds and they both said they didn't like them, ditto with audio books. I can't help but think they are just being difficult...the little dears.:glare:

 

Maybe I just need to selct more current authors...possibly they just don't like 'old' books, although Nancy Drew isn't exactly new. :confused:

 

Actually, Nancy Drew is "new" - those books get rewritten every decade or so.

 

I second the idea of trying newer books. I also didn't like The Door in the Wall. I taught a middle school class on historical fiction and the Middle Ages and I initially thought I'd use that... until I reread it and realized that most of the kids would find it really dull. We used Crispin and Catherine, Called Birdy instead. Both are great books - just as good as The Door in the Wall - but have a more contemporary style and address issues from their time periods that I think kids can relate to now.

 

Doing read alouds or audio books allows you to do books that would be too hard for them to read - but don't pick something that's light years too hard. I would pick something you feel relatively sure they'd enjoy.

 

Also, vocabulary isn't the only reason kids don't understand a book. Once kids have that pure decoding down, there are a myriad of reasons that they may still struggle with reading. They may have actually had trouble with it (or not...)

 

Finally, have you thought about nonfiction? Some kids prefer it and there's more and more of it for young readers out there.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Based on the responses I think I will pick out maybe 2 or 3 really good historical fiction books to go with their history and 2 or 3 good classic literature selections and read them aloud during lunch. They will not be happy about it, but oh well. My dd7 will love it; she loves being read to. (I read to her every night for almost an hour)

 

Then I will get more non-fiction history books from the library to supplement their history.

 

I will also try to get a list of more current, well written books for them to choose from for their independent reading.

 

And, I guess I will start researching non-literature based history for next year.:glare:

[regentrude]

We usually listen to audiobooks when we are in the car. Maybe that might work for you? The kids can't get away, they have to be there and listen ;-)

You could also choose a dramatized version to add more spice. There is an absolutely wonderful series of dramatized audiobooks of Chronicles of Narnia by Focus on the Family Radio which is enjoyable for the whole family; The Mind's Eye has a great dramatization of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

 

My DS has occasionally developed an interest in a specific book after seeing the movie.

[Mandy in TN]

Simple solutions-

1. Do not use literature-based history studies. For a child that detests this type of history study nothing will be gained by dragging him through it.

 

2. Get a textbook to cover literature. Textbooks will discuss and give examples of various literary genres and terms.

 

Assign no historical fiction, but require one quality literature book of your choosing be read each 6 weeks.

Mandy

[SailorMom]

I'm going to have to be the voice of dissent here.... sorry,

Looks like your DC are middle school - soon they will be high school. Then hopefully college. If they are not understanding the themes of literature now - they will have a much harder time with the in depth studies they will have to do later.

AR tests at the schools are a joke. They only require basic recall of facts read. There is no analyzing at all. It is possible that although they are on grade level, they have just not developed an ear for good books, or the ability to understand the deeper themes in them.

The only way to learn to love good literature is to read it and hear it.

The only books my DC choose are the ones for their book reports - otherwise they are assigned. Yes - sometimes they hate them - but amazingly they learned to appreciate and enjoy a much broader selection of books - most that they would have never chosen for themselves.

Good luck :)

[In The Great White North]

We usually listen to audiobooks when we are in the car. Maybe that might work for you? The kids can't get away, they have to be there and listen ;-)

 

:iagree:

 

And read aloud during "food" times: breakfast, snacks, lunch, discus the book at dinner? (They don't get to eat without listening to a book!)

 

Easy as it would be, not making them read/listen to good literature will automatically put them behind when they start high school (not to mention college.)

[A home for their hearts]

Maybe your dc are having trouble comprehending what they are reading and therefore are turned off by it. Children usually pick books that are at or below their level of capability. There is a big difference between being able to actually read something and understanding what is being said. If they aren't understanding they are simply barking...reading without meaning. If this is the case I would understand why they hate it.

 

I would suggested finding picture books, yes picture books, that cover the time period you are wanting to cover. There are many great ones out there that aren't fluff!

 

Jean Fritz,

 

Landmark These are older and harder to find but are great historical reads.

 

D'Aulaires http://http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=D%27Aulaires

 

Paula's Archives has a great book list.

 

Also try Jim Weiss He is a great storyteller! Your dc will probably enjoy listening to him then a lot of the dry audiobooks out there.

 

The following is a list of great books for you to read to help you to cultivate a love of reading in your dc.

 

Honey for a Child's Heart by Gladys Hunt

 

The Read-Aloud Handbook by Jim Trelease

 

The Book Whisperer By Donalyn Miller

 

I would also ask your dc why they don't like the books you are trying to have them read. If you can get a good answer out of them it may help you find out what's going on. Get The Usborne Encyclopedia of World History, or some other kind of history encyclopedia and let them look throught it. See if there is a particular time period they seem interested in and good to the library and find some books, fiction, and non-fiction, on that time period. Oh, Childhood of Famous Americans is also a great series.

 

HTH! And I hope there aren't too many typos in this post, I'm multi-tasking. lol

Edited September 24, 2010 by A home for their hearts

[KathyBC]

I'm going to have to be the voice of dissent here.... sorry,

Looks like your DC are middle school - soon they will be high school. Then hopefully college. If they are not understanding the themes of literature now - they will have a much harder time with the in depth studies they will have to do later.

AR tests at the schools are a joke. They only require basic recall of facts read. There is no analyzing at all. It is possible that although they are on grade level, they have just not developed an ear for good books, or the ability to understand the deeper themes in them.

The only way to learn to love good literature is to read it and hear it.

The only books my DC choose are the ones for their book reports - otherwise they are assigned. Yes - sometimes they hate them - but amazingly they learned to appreciate and enjoy a much broader selection of books - most that they would have never chosen for themselves.

Good luck :)

 

Force feeding something does not necessarily inspire love. High school and college are but further stepping stones on the way to what we are ultimately preparing children for - the whole rest of their lives. Depending on the individual, the ability to read and comprehend non-fiction might be a lot more necessary than literature. Yes, they need to be familiar with literary terms and themes. Mandy's plan would cover that. Expose them to a broad selection of books, sure, but for Heaven's Sake, let them choose their own free reading. It is much more likely to inspire a long-term love of reading than lock-stepping the same path as everyone else, fearing they might be 'behind'.

 

Simple solutions-

1. Do not use literature-based history studies. For a child that detests this type of history study nothing will be gained by dragging him through it.

 

2. Get a textbook to cover literature. Textbooks will discuss and give examples of various literary genres and terms.

 

Assign no historical fiction, but require one quality literature book of your choosing be read each 6 weeks.

Mandy

[Catherine]

I have "forced" my boys to read things they did not initially find interesting or appealing. *Very* often, they've loved the book when they've finished. Like I said earlier, true strong dislike, after a trial, I listen to. Whining about books they haven't even looked at or read a page of, no. If I've researched and chosen something, it must be at least sampled.

 

Many boys simply will not choose to read anything difficult or challenging. After persisting in my efforts for 5 years, my lit-hating future engineer loves to read-it's his favorite part of the day, and chooses to read challenging books on his own (he's almost 14). I don't think he'd be at that point if I'd simply allowed him to always choose his own reading. There's a happy medium, I'm saying, between rank coersion and firm, gentle encouaragement.

[KathyBC]

With which part of my post do you disagree? It seems like maybe the whole thread has not been read, or not taken in context. The post you and I are replying to states:

 

The only books my DC choose are the ones for their book reports - otherwise they are assigned.

 

That seems excessive. The only books you're allowed to chose, and you have to write a book report on it? That's just not setting people up to enjoy reading for the rest of their lives. But I'm at a loss to explain how that becomes never encouraging work on things that are difficult or challenging, or rejecting exposure to a wider range of books. ???

 

In the OP's case, it sounds as if her dc do enjoy free reading, and that there will be challenging books assigned for school; it is a question of quantity and with which genre to approach a particular subject. Literature-based curriculum for history is not the only way to approach that subject. Non-fiction can be very challenging. One size does not fit all.

 

I don't know if you and I disagree at all, since I don't recognize my posts in your response. Well, except for the persuasive part. I'd gladly take credit for that! ;)

 

ETA:

With some books, I simply RA with them, explaining\researching as we go. I also cut down the number of books we read. I'd rather do a few, in depth, and have them understood, than a longer list of just skimming without comprehension.

 

See here, I would absolutely , positively agree with you. :confused:

Edited September 26, 2010 by KathyBC

[Kates]

:DI would say to let them read what they like (on-subject) for the time being and let them pick some read-alouds or audio books for fun. Once they like them...integrate them into history time.

 

There is a point to making them do what they don't want to, but there's also a point of making them read difficult books when they've already put a wall up - they won't get anything out of it, they'll be frustrated, and all that work will have been for nothing...leading to not wanting to read those books again in the future.

 

IMO, try hiding the veggies in the sauce - bring them around gradually to loving books with a great plot and something to say about the world. In the meantime, keep them reading and comprehending...just be a bit sneaky about it.

[calandalsmom]

I personally adore Bunnicula.

 

That's all I wanted to say. :)

 

I hardly think your kids are doomed to a lifetime of hardships if they do not enjoy historical fiction.

[Catherine]

Sometimes making a kid read something they hate is useless, but sometimes I have found the opposite to be true, particularly when they "hate" something they haven't even opened.

[lauracolumbus]

I would make it a treat. Instead of math on Mondays, I'd start w/read alouds w/a hot cup of cocoa and some yummy cookies. I'd do this for several months.

 

BTW, sometimes historical fiction is just hard. I'd choose as widely as possible and maybe go significantly lighter for now. It might take longer than 2 years to deprogram them.

 

Laura