Locking kids into school-how common is this?

[flyingiguana]

The two high schools near us lock the kids in. Seriously. The doors cannot be opened from the inside unless you have a key. Supposedly the doors will unlock if there is a fire, but one wonders if this system will really work when it's supposed to. And then there's the scenario of a rampaging gunman in the school, with a pile of kids trying to get out the locked front door.

 

Does anyone know if this is common practice?

 

Admittedly, it is possible no one here would know. I only know because my kids have been in the schools and seen this happen (and, actually, it happened to me last night). The parents of kids in these schools seem not to know about it, which I find VERY strange. The teachers find it perfectly acceptable.

[dansamy]

H*ll no! My children would most certainly not attend a school that did that.

[jujsky]

I have never heard of this, and it sounds completely unsafe to me. I've heard of the doors being locked from the OUTSIDE after school starts so that anyone entering the building would have to buzz in at the main door, but never, ever from the inside.

[IsabelC]

Sheesh, aren't schools enough like prisons already? Is that even legal without parental discussion / consent?

[Chris in VA]

This is illegal as it violates fire code. Are you absolutely sure it is happening?

Locking from the outside is fine.

[flyingiguana]

A few years back, my daughter was on the cross country team. The team had to leave school early to get to a meet. The entire team (except my daughter, the homeschooler, and a couple other kids who had just come back from their dual enrollment college classes) were still locked in the building and no one would let them out. The kids were pounding on the door to get out. There were two janitors standing outside who refused to open the door for them. They knew full well a large group of kids were trying to get out.

 

So how did these janitors know that these kids weren't in a dangerous situation that they needed to get out of? The answer is, they didn't. They just followed procedure, which is keeping the kids locked in, regardless of what might be happening in that school.

 

This school also does not have any windows large enough for anyone to climb out of.

 

Someday, there's going to be a disaster.

 

I don't know why this doesn't break fire codes. Maybe the schools here have been legally labelled as prisons, so they don't have to have unlocked doors.

[flyingiguana]

This is illegal as it violates fire code. Are you absolutely sure it is happening?

Locking from the outside is fine.

 

Yes, I am absolutely sure. It happened to me last night. I was at a band rehearsal and all us were locked in until someone tracked down the janitor. Every door in the school was locked from the inside.

 

If they hadn't found the janitor, I was going to pull the fire alarm to see if the doors really did unlock. At the very least, it MIGHT have called the fire department. However, I'm not even sure that setting off the fire alarm would work. It seems that some schools have the fire alarm set so it only goes off in the main office. They then send out people to go around the building and see if there's a fire. Only if they find one do they report back to the main office and THEN the main alarm is allowed to go off -- so the doors might not unlock in case of fire if no one was in the main office.

 

I'm not even sure why this is legal if parents consent to it.

[Chris in VA]

In that case, I'd talk to the school board and report it. I'd also run it by the fire dept (fire code inspectors). I'd also alert the media. Truly.

[Murphy101]

A few years back, my daughter was on the cross country team. The team had to leave school early to get to a meet. The entire team (except my daughter, the homeschooler, and a couple other kids who had just come back from their dual enrollment college classes) were still locked in the building and no one would let them out. The kids were pounding on the door to get out. There were two janitors standing outside who refused to open the door for them. They knew full well a large group of kids were trying to get out.

 

So how did these janitors know that these kids weren't in a dangerous situation that they needed to get out of? The answer is, they didn't. They just followed procedure, which is keeping the kids locked in, regardless of what might be happening in that school.

 

This school also does not have any windows large enough for anyone to climb out of.

 

Someday, there's going to be a disaster.

 

I don't know why this doesn't break fire codes. Maybe the schools here have been legally labelled as prisons, so they don't have to have unlocked doors.

 

 

That is slowly and quietly becoming the norm here too. I completely agree with you on all counts.

 

Yes, again my opinion stands that jail house prisoners have more freedom than public school kids.

 

Oh and here, it is a well known fact. I think they spin it as yet another step towards safer schools. Total blarney, but apparently the masses buy into it.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Martha

[dangermom]

Holy moley. I've never heard of this kind of thing*--I'd call the fire dept. and ask about it.

 

 

*I live in California, where many high schools are built on an open plan and every classroom opens to the outside.

[LaissezFaire]

Not long ago (maybe 5 years?) They put huge metal/iron looking fences around all of our schools and locked them in. I shudder every time I drive by, it's like prison.

[Moni]

Does anyone know if this is common practice?

.

 

Yes, it's actually common.

 

:seeya:

[AndyJoy]

Both the 5th-7th middle school and the 8th/9th jr. high in my rural hometown did this 12 years ago. I presume they still do. Really stupid and dangerous if you ask me. If kids want to skip school, they just won't show up.

[DesertDweller]

 

I don't know why this doesn't break fire codes. Maybe the schools here have been legally labelled as prisons, so they don't have to have unlocked doors.

 

Maybe you should call the local fire department and ask. I would love to hear their response.

[DesertDweller]

Holy moley. I've never heard of this kind of thing*--I'd call the fire dept. and ask about it.

 

 

*I live in California, where many high schools are built on an open plan and every classroom opens to the outside.

 

Didn't see this before I posted, but I agree. I'd call.

 

Here in AZ, we have the same type of buildings. Many of the high schools have classrooms that open directly to the outside with large open areas and courtyards.

[Murphy101]

I don't know bat older schools being converted, but I know nearly all of the newer schools being built do not have any windows and have doors like this, so I would thing building inspectors would know at that time and apparently they are signing off on it?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yes, I am absolutely sure. It happened to me last night. I was at a band rehearsal and all us were locked in until someone tracked down the janitor. Every door in the school was locked from the inside.

 

If they hadn't found the janitor, I was going to pull the fire alarm to see if the doors really did unlock. At the very least, it MIGHT have called the fire department. However, I'm not even sure that setting off the fire alarm would work. It seems that some schools have the fire alarm set so it only goes off in the main office. They then send out people to go around the building and see if there's a fire. Only if they find one do they report back to the main office and THEN the main alarm is allowed to go off -- so the doors might not unlock in case of fire if no one was in the main office.

 

I'm not even sure why this is legal if parents consent to it.

 

I would consider calling your fire department's fire chief or building inspector. Explain your concern and ask if this is in accordance with local builidng code and fire department policy for occupied buildings.

 

While you would think that people in charge of a building wouldn't do things that violate fire code, my fil is a fire chief and was state fire marshal. He went around with colleges that violated building fire codes all the time.

 

This raises major red flags to me. The nice thing is that the department ought to be able to go over and do an inspection without bringing you into it.

[Miss Sherry]

The two high schools near us lock the kids in. Seriously. The doors cannot be opened from the inside unless you have a key. Supposedly the doors will unlock if there is a fire, but one wonders if this system will really work when it's supposed to. And then there's the scenario of a rampaging gunman in the school, with a pile of kids trying to get out the locked front door.

 

Does anyone know if this is common practice?

 

Admittedly, it is possible no one here would know. I only know because my kids have been in the schools and seen this happen (and, actually, it happened to me last night). The parents of kids in these schools seem not to know about it, which I find VERY strange. The teachers find it perfectly acceptable.

 

This is not a safe practice. I think someone should bring this situation to the attention of your local TV news media so the word gets out to everyone that this is going on. When it becomes well known someone may push the school to change it.

[Miss Sherry]

I would consider calling your fire department's fire chief or building inspector. Explain your concern and ask if this is in accordance with local builidng code and fire department policy for occupied buildings.

 

While you would think that people in charge of a building wouldn't do things that violate fire code, my fil is a fire chief and was state fire marshal. He went around with colleges that violated building fire codes all the time.

 

This raises major red flags to me. The nice thing is that the department ought to be able to go over and do an inspection without bringing you into it.

 

Oh yeah, and get the local TV news media over to the school while the fire marshal is checking out the situation. :D

[MSNative]

Totally reminds me of the movie Lean on Me. Love that movie! Hate the practice in real life.

[nono]

Lucky, here, that is not so. After all, how would our high school students get out for gym??? The tennis courts are several blocks one way; the football field is several blocks the other way. Many times, the phys ed instructors will use the boardwalk for running drills.

 

And, the kids (gasp!) are not marched to these places, they just leave the building and show up at the field. On their own! It is interesting to see the straggler vacationer witness this. Usually, it is done with a bit of awe. :) So, to the OP, I definitely believe that your reality is more prevalent than ours.

[flyingiguana]

OK, I've contacted a couple TV stations and another guy in my group who got locked in the other night said he would contact the fire department. We'll see if anything happens.

 

What gets me about this is the complacency of the parents of kids at those schools. When I mention this, I get blank stares and the topic gets changed. I don't know if they just think I'm making stuff up, or if they truly don't care.

[Laurie4b]

It's hard to believe that wouldn't violate fire codes; I would never trust some electrical unlocking system in the case of a fire--what if it were an electrical fire?

 

What if, as a pp said, there was a gunman?

 

Or explosives?

 

Or carbon monoxide or deliberately induced toxic fumes?

 

I cannot imagine how safety is increased by not letting people out of the building.

 

It's mass death waiting to happen.

[Tabrett]

How about this:

 

At the high schools in my area, they have cage walls suspended in the ceiling in the halls. If a fights breaks out they can let the walls down to trap the kids.

 

So glad my dd is not there any more. She was so worried about the wall coming down in the hall and being trapped in the cage with the people fighting!

[Rebecca VA]

About the cage walls: I can remember my elementary school having cage-type walls suspended from the ceiling, and this was a school built in the 1950s. Sometimes in the summertime I would walk around with the janitor and he would pull the walls down after he cleaned those wings of the building.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

How about this:

 

At the high schools in my area, they have cage walls suspended in the ceiling in the halls. If a fights breaks out they can let the walls down to trap the kids.

 

So glad my dd is not there any more. She was so worried about the wall coming down in the hall and being trapped in the cage with the people fighting!

 

About the cage walls: I can remember my elementary school having cage-type walls suspended from the ceiling, and this was a school built in the 1950s. Sometimes in the summertime I would walk around with the janitor and he would pull the walls down after he cleaned those wings of the building.

 

I was upset about the locked doors but these two posts almost have me in tears. I have never, ever heard of cage walls.

[JFSinIL]

Does the local fire department know about this? Sounds like it would be against fire code and thereby illegal.

[SquirrellyMama]

How about this:

 

At the high schools in my area, they have cage walls suspended in the ceiling in the halls. If a fights breaks out they can let the walls down to trap the kids.

 

So glad my dd is not there any more. She was so worried about the wall coming down in the hall and being trapped in the cage with the people fighting!

 

Would they not notice the cage walls coming down or would it be at each end of the hallway? That sounds really scary. Could someone get hit by the wall coming down?

 

Yikes!

[Dobela]

Yes, I am absolutely sure. It happened to me last night. I was at a band rehearsal and all us were locked in until someone tracked down the janitor. Every door in the school was locked from the inside.

 

If they hadn't found the janitor, I was going to pull the fire alarm to see if the doors really did unlock. At the very least, it MIGHT have called the fire department. However, I'm not even sure that setting off the fire alarm would work. It seems that some schools have the fire alarm set so it only goes off in the main office. They then send out people to go around the building and see if there's a fire. Only if they find one do they report back to the main office and THEN the main alarm is allowed to go off -- so the doors might not unlock in case of fire if no one was in the main office.

 

I'm not even sure why this is legal if parents consent to it.

When I was teaching, what happened to the doors in the evening was very different from the day time. Our doors were locked from theinside in the evenings, after students left, but staff had a key to let anyone in or out. For thigns like band rehearsals, usually only one door was left accessible from the inside. It prevented theft and such.

[Dobela]

Would they not notice the cage walls coming down or would it be at each end of the hallway? That sounds really scary. Could someone get hit by the wall coming down?

 

Yikes!

Our high school had metal fences things at the end of each hall section (our building was more like a tic tac toe grid). I never heard them say they were fighting. They were used however to block hallways from pilfering kids when clubs met in the cafeteria and such.

[tricia]

My list of why I've always homeschooled and will continue to do so just keeps grooooooooowing!!:tongue_smilie:

[AndyJoy]

Our high school had metal fences things at the end of each hall section (our building was more like a tic tac toe grid). I never heard them say they were fighting. They were used however to block hallways from pilfering kids when clubs met in the cafeteria and such.

 

:iagree:Our high school used them to block off the lockers, classrooms, and bulletin boards from tampering during out-of-school-time events in the gym like dances, concerts, or basketball games

[Cindyg]

Can someone explain the point of the locking doors? They can be opened from the outside but not the inside? Isn't that pretty much opposite of normal security practices? Who is protected by locking the children in?

[AndyJoy]

Can someone explain the point of the locking doors? They can be opened from the outside but not the inside? Isn't that pretty much opposite of normal security practices? Who is protected by locking the children in?

 

At the schools I know about they are locked from both sides.

[*Jessica*]

As a bit of a claustrophic I'm certain I would have a huge panic attack if I went to open the door and found out that it was locked from the inside! It doesn't matter how big the space is if I can't escape from it! I'm having to take some really deep breaths just thinking about it. *shiver*

[Teachin'Mine]

oops double post

Edited September 18, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[Teachin'Mine]

Has anyone seen the movie "Stand by Me"? (yes I know that's grammatically incorrect here in the US, but I've recently switched and can't seem to go back lol)

 

ETA: that's "Stand and Deliver"

ETA: No - that would be "Lean on Me". lol

 

Spoiler alert!!!

 

In this movie - based on real life - a new principal in an inner city school takes control back from the drug dealers and thugs in the school. He expels the trouble makers and locks the doors from the inside - with chains. Just locking them from the outside wouldn't work since some of the kids on the inside were just opening the doors for the dealers to get them inside. The teachers were given keys to be able to unlock them in an emergency and the security staff was on the lookout for for school officials and such. But the fire department got in and saw the chains and the principal was arrested. It was illegal based on fire codes to have the doors locked on the inside.

 

I can't imagine that fire codes have changed. There's probably more wrong at the school than the locked doors - there's a reason they felt the need to lock them. Then again with the gunman scenario, that may be the reason the doors are locked to keep someone like that from gaining entrance other than through the main door. There's no easy answer.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[GoVanGogh]

News story from our area earlier this year:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/022510dnmetschoolchains.440c2a8.html

 

8 DISD high schools cited for keeping exit doors locked

 

"Surprise inspections at 31 Dallas public high schools this week revealed that eight were locking exit doors that serve as escape routes during catastrophes, a serious fire code violation. "

 

"Chaining school doors has become fairly common in Texas, as schools weigh security issues against fire safety concerns."

 

___

 

I don't know if our own school district chains/locks their doors. I do know that my neighbor says it is easier to visit an inmate in prison than to have lunch at school with her child.

Our school doesn't allow running during recess. The kids walk, single file, along the inside of the fenced playground. If it wasn't so pathetically sad, it is comical to drive by during recess and see all the children walking the fence line in a single file. It really does look like a scene from a prison movie. :tongue_smilie:

[idnib]

Has anyone seen the movie "Stand by Me"? (yes I know that's grammatically incorrect here in the US' date=' but I've recently switched and can't seem to go back lol)

[/quote']

 

Are you talking about "Stand and Deliver" maybe?

[LibrarianMom]

When I was teaching, what happened to the doors in the evening was very different from the day time. Our doors were locked from theinside in the evenings, after students left, but staff had a key to let anyone in or out. For thigns like band rehearsals, usually only one door was left accessible from the inside. It prevented theft and such.

 

:iagree: Evening procedures and daytime procedures are completely different. It could be that full-time students know that if you are here after hours for this or that practice, you must use this door to leave. Before you call the police or the fire department, see what happens during the day time. Even then, check with the building administrators to inquire what is going on.

[Teachin'Mine]

Are you talking about "Stand and Deliver" maybe?

 

 

:lol: Yup that would be it! I think "Stand by Me" was about some kids and a railroad track now that I think about it. :tongue_smilie:

[Photo Ninja]

Locking students inside a school is a ridiculous, dangerous situation and I assume the only reason it is being tolerated is that parents, if they have been informed at all, have been told it is for their children's safety, so they ignorantly believe that, and because there has been no fire or other situation where students have been injured or killed as a result. But that is still no reason for it to continue.

 

As a little side note, my dc have always been hsed, but have observed schools. When we were in another state moving my oldest into his college dorm we drove by several elementary schools. My dd noted in wonder that they didn't look like prisons, and exclaimed in amazement that the students were playing outside on grass, and there were no fences around the school! Here all schools have very tall chain link fences to keep students in and other people out. She had never seen a school without fences.

[merry gardens]

OK, I've contacted a couple TV stations and another guy in my group who got locked in the other night said he would contact the fire department. We'll see if anything happens.

Good. I hope TV stations and the fire department put a stop to this practice. It's awful.

[flyingiguana]

:iagree: Evening procedures and daytime procedures are completely different. It could be that full-time students know that if you are here after hours for this or that practice, you must use this door to leave. Before you call the police or the fire department, see what happens during the day time. Even then, check with the building administrators to inquire what is going on.

 

Every door in the building was locked that evening that I was there. It wasn't a question of finding the right door. It was just that the janitor forgot to unlock a door. If the system is dependent on one janitor remembering to do his job, I'm skeptical that safety procedures are in place.

 

Yes, daytime procedures are slightly different, but not much. At one school they keep one door unlocked and everyone is supposed to use that one. If there is a fire and the other doors don't unlock, I seriously doubt they'd be able to get all the people out of the building through that single door. Also, it's likely that the fire would cut most people off from that one open door. There are no windows. Let me repeat that -- there is not a single accessible window except on the third floor. And I'm not convinced the windows on the third floor are even wide enough for a person to get through.

 

At the second school, I don't know if they keep any doors unlocked at all during the day if it's not a time when kids are supposed to be leaving.

 

These schools look like serious fire traps to me. Even if they did leave all the doors unlocked, there are still large parts of the interior of the building that have no easy access to the outside. Who builds a building this way unless they mean it to be a prison?

 

I won't buy the argument that this is for the kids' safety until they put metal detectors and bomb sniffer dogs at the entrance. After all, any student can get in, carrying whatever they want to hide in a backpack.

 

For that matter, almost anyone can get in, whether they're a student or not, if they just slip in at the right time of day. I've done it myself numerous times. And what's to stop anyone intent on mayhem from just showing up with a gun and shooting the person at the desk who is keeping people from entering?

 

I don't believe that contacting the school administrators is going to be very helpful. What could they possibly explain? I KNOW it's a dangerous situation. It doesn't take much to see that.

[Caroline]

:lol: Yup that would be it! I think "Stand by Me" was about some kids and a railroad track now that I think about it. :tongue_smilie:

 

No, you are talking about Lean on Me. Stand and Deliver is about the AP Calculus test at an LA high school and Jaime Escalante, who recently died.

[Murphy101]

I won't buy the argument that this is for the kids' safety until they put metal detectors and bomb sniffer dogs at the entrance. After all, any student can get in, carrying whatever they want to hide in a backpack.

 

:001_huh: that is odd. Most schools here do indeed have metal detectors and random drug/bomb dogs searches. And many require only clear or mesh backpacks, signing in for anyone without a student ID, and more. And these are supposedly nice schools, I'm not talking the seedy side of town.

[Teachin'Mine]

No, you are talking about Lean on Me. Stand and Deliver is about the AP Calculus test at an LA high school and Jaime Escalante, who recently died.

 

:lol: Yup- that would really be it! :lol:

 

We have both of these movies and have watched both over the summer. Can you tell I'm terrible at movie trivia??? :tongue_smilie:

 

Stand by Me ... Lean on Me ... they both look similar and have catchy tunes. :lol:

[mcconnellboys]

I know that all the schools for every age level here lock and you have to ring in on a call box to gain admittance. I do not know if the doors lock on the inside such that one can not get out. That would seem very dangerous to me....

[idnib]

:lol: Yup- that would really be it! :lol:

 

We have both of these movies and have watched both over the summer. Can you tell I'm terrible at movie trivia??? :tongue_smilie:

 

Stand by Me ... Lean on Me ... they both look similar and have catchy tunes. :lol:

 

I'm terrible about movie trivia too. I'm the person who says, "You know, that movie about that guy played by what's-his-name that came out in the 90s. Oh, and it had that blond woman in it, the one with the chipmunk cheeks." (Actual description of There's Something About Mary)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't know bat older schools being converted, but I know nearly all of the newer schools being built do not have any windows and have doors like this, so I would thing building inspectors would know at that time and apparently they are signing off on it?

 

My FIL was the state fire marshal for his state in the midwest a few years ago. He went round and round with one of the state universities, that had errected a temporary building for classroom space that didn't meet several fire code requirements for a building of that type. He went round with them for weeks over this building (and he had the weight of both his state office and decades in the fire service behind his determination that it wasn't to code).

 

I've heard of school buildings that were locked from the outside to prevent entry. But they usually then have some form of crash bar to allow for emergency exit.

 

This is something that I would definitely bring up with the school administration and if necessary with the fire department.