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fund any type of welfare program? If the economy became so bad that there wasn't enough tax revenue to keep social programs going?

 

Do you think this might ever happen?

 

At the rate we are going, give it a few years. Of course they can always just print more, that worked out very well for Germany in the 20s and more recently Zimbabwe. I trust that at some point there will be fiscal responsibility but then again some people seem to think that they are entitled to money from the government and as long as politicians give it to them those individuals will keep voting for said politicians.

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Guest janainaz

I don't understand why everyone continually blames the goverment for not taking care of the poor.

 

It goes back to the industrial revolution. People used to be able to work to eat and live. But corporations took over and screwed that all up. So it's up to people to take care of people. The goverment, at some point, may not. Despite the taxes that we pay - people will be in need. Churches will take money to fund their own institution - just like the govement. It's about people, not government.

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fund any type of welfare program? If the economy became so bad that there wasn't enough tax revenue to keep social programs going?

 

Do you think this might ever happen?

 

 

gee whiz, Tabrett...I was about to go to sleep...oh, well...so much for that...

 

Short answer, were you alive / aware when the Rodney King verdict was announced? Or more recently, the Katrina event?

 

picture that nationwide...I glanced at references to Weinmar Germany, Zimbabwee (spelling? I'm not checking. I'm tired...). Societal breakdowns can happen with lightning speed...and YES, it can happen here...if the checks stop coming the people, quite naturally, will quickly become desperate.

 

Sleep tight!

 

- BW

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I don't understand why everyone continually blames the goverment for not taking care of the poor.

 

 

I'm not saying it is the governments fault. But the fact is, the government is the one who takes care of the poor. The government is also at fault for keeping people in social programs especially when all a teen has to do is have a baby, out of wedlock, and welfare checks start coming. You cannot reward sin and have a good out come. I, too, think that it is the role of the church. Will the church be capiable of standing up and taking care of the situation? Will the church be ready? I truly am afraid most churched people are on the same boat as the unchurched.

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I'm not saying it is the governments fault. But the fact is, the government is the one who takes care of the poor. The government is also at fault for keeping people in social programs especially when all a teen has to do is have a baby, out of wedlock, and welfare checks start coming. You cannot reward sin and have a good out come. I, too, think that it is the role of the church. Will the church be capiable of standing up and taking care of the situation? Will the church be ready? I truly am afraid most churched people are on the same boat as the unchurched.

Churches used to do this. There also used to be a work ethic.

 

Prior to Social Security and WIC people worked to eat. I don't remember when these programs came into being, sometime in the mid 1900s, but they were not supposed to be a way of life.

 

The system has become abused and bloated. Unfortunately to cut off funds cold turkey will most likely cause civil war. If society were to decide to no longer allow for funding these programs the funding would need to be cut little by little to allow for people to find a job no matter how menial, arrange child care, or move in with family and friends if they could not support themseles and their family.

 

Personally I have no problem with the government helping the working poor put food on the table or a roof over their heads. Generational welfare and the system that allows for welfare "anchor" babies (for want of a better word) needs to be rescinded.

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You cannot reward sin and have a good out come. QUOTE]

 

 

 

Wow! The world is filled with imperfect people that make mistakes. We are ALL in that category, wether we like to admit it, or not. So, punish girls who become pregnant to teach them a lesson? That does not sound sensible to me.

 

Today I saw a homeless man wandering the Wal-Mart parking lot. He was dirty, had missing teeth, could have been a drug addict or an alcoholic - who knows. But you know what? I really did not care. If I had $5 bucks - I'd still offer it - at least as an "I see you". I had no cash on me, and saw many others as I was leaving the parking lot, turn him down. It's Arizona, it's hot and miserable - and he's a human being. Maybe I should have stopped to tell him about the goverment programs that might be willing to help him. Or maybe I should tell him to go get a job. That's cold.

 

People are people. And we can't ever know their road unless we actually know them. Some suck money from our system out of laziness. Some take money because of..... gosh - just their life circumstances. Is it great and right? No. Could some work? Yes. Do some girls get pregnant at 16 because they don't have a mother at home to track her whereabouts, or guide her in the right direction? Yeah! Do some girls get pregnant because they really think they are in love with the person they are with? Yes! It's ugly - people are screwed up. All people are screwed up - especially the ones who think they aren't.

 

But as for the government taking care of the poor with our tax money - I would hope those programs are able to stay in place. But our government is very greedy and very corrupt and we have to work around what is not being done for those who need it. But that often requires the laying down of judgement and looking a little deeper. And - maybe reaching into our own pockets instead of constantly worrying about our own, personal wealth and nest egg.

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Most people that recieve public assistance DO work. You can't be on it for long if you aren't actively working, looking for work, or getting an education.

 

And if you think the work ethic is dead, you obviously don't know many working poor people.

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I'm not saying it is the governments fault. But the fact is, the government is the one who takes care of the poor. The government is also at fault for keeping people in social programs especially when all a teen has to do is have a baby, out of wedlock, and welfare checks start coming. You cannot reward sin and have a good out come. I, too, think that it is the role of the church. Will the church be capiable of standing up and taking care of the situation? Will the church be ready? I truly am afraid most churched people are on the same boat as the unchurched.

 

Wow. This is pretty harsh. I think you need more exposure with poor people.

YES, there are some people who take advantage of the system. But the reality is, for most programs you have to be working, looking for work, in a government directed work program, or getting an education. Most of the people I know on government programs would JUMP at the chance to have a better lifestyle.

 

If all programs were suddenly stopped, it would be devastating to me. I depend on food stamps and medicaid. If I couldn't get those two things, I'd have to go to work. Which would mean dropping out of school, putting my daughter in school, and making not enough money to live off of. Instead, I have access to these two programs which will be temporary for us, and will give me time to finish my education and put my daughter and I in a much better place for the rest of our lives.

I had a child out of wedlock. (Wow... just had a flashback to the 1950s with that term. :lol:) I am now in an honors program at a respected college, raising my daughter to be a loving, God-honoring, intelligent person. Call it whatever you want, but I call it a darn good outcome.

 

As for the Church providing social services... what about those who are not religious? Do they not deserve help also? I do believe the Church should assist those it can, but it can't do everything.

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You cannot reward sin and have a good out come. QUOTE]

 

 

 

Wow! The world is filled with imperfect people that make mistakes. We are ALL in that category, wether we like to admit it, or not. So, punish girls who become pregnant to teach them a lesson? That does not sound sensible to me..

There is a big difference between punishing and rewarding. We rewarding a girl who gets pregnant, while unmarried by providing free health care, free food and free housing.

 

I, who had babies while married, could not afford the type of health care given to unwed teens. I had my babies at a birthing center, and dared not ask for anesthesia, because I only had enough money to pay for the basic package. I refused suggested ultrasound because I didn't have the money.

 

I said we should not reward them. I did not say we should punish them.

There has to be some sort of deterant or it will continue to snowball.

 

Sin needs to be forgiven, but there is always consequence to sin even after forgiveness. God forgave Moses, but was not allowed onto the promise land. God forgave David, but he still lost his son. We forgive our children, but we still dicipline them. Do you reward your dc for misbehavior?

 

I know I sound very harsh, but this is WHY the church needs to be the ones helping people. At one church I attended, if people called to get financial help we did an assessment of what they really needed befor handing out money. One time a person asked for food, the church went to their house and found a pantry full of food. The government can't access true needs like a church. If you give free college to pregnant teen to try to help them get ahead, what do you end up with? Lots of teens getting pregnant their senior year. It really happened. Is that sound much more like rewarding than just helping out.

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As for the Church providing social services... what about those who are not religious? Do they not deserve help also? I do believe the Church should assist those it can, but it can't do everything.

 

Yes, they should be helped - a human being in need is a human being in need.

 

Most churches have become like the government, unfortunately. One would receive more help from goverment programs than their local church.

 

You would need to be a member to receive help, and if you were able to get help, they would expect something in return. Bodies in the church = $

 

Most churches are not even able to help their own. I say most, not all, but most.

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You can't be on it for long if you aren't actively working, looking for work, or getting an education.

 

Many people use the system legitimately, but unfortunately there are many others out there who know how to "work" the system.

 

I certainly and definitely want people who need help to have it, but it bugs me to see people on these services with top of the line cell phones (I don't even have a cell phone so we can stay debt free on dh's income), Coach bags, and top flight designer clothes on them and their kids. This is very common in our area.

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You know, I sit here reading these posts thinking, WOW. I read here quite often about someone asking about government assistance, etc. About people having many children and not knowing where next week's grocery money is coming from. But still, for the most part, they are SAHM and are unwilling to compromise that point. Times may be VERY tight for them, and still they say that putting the kids in school and getting a job is out of the question, yet they sign up for WIC, etc.

 

I'm not begrudging anyone assistance. We're all members of the human race, and hey, we all need a hand now and again. But I just don't get how we can talk out of both sides of our mouth! When it's a pregnant teen mom with two kids already, it's distasteful and an unworthy cause. We make judgements that she's "lazy" or "doesn't care" or "just working the system." However, when it's that SAHM homeschooling mom of 12 who is pregnant again and not working, (speaking hypothetically here--- just pulled those examples out of my head) it's such a blessing.

 

I'm guilty of that hypocrisy; I think many of us are. But I do think we as humans have a responsibility to help others in need.

 

Just my late-night thoughts on the eve of turnin' 40, so maybe I"m adopting a bit of that, "I"m going to say what I feel because I'm old now!" :D

 

astrid

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Guest janainaz

There is a big difference between punishing and rewarding. We rewarding a girl who gets pregnant, while unmarried by providing free health care, free food and free housing.

 

I, who had babies while married, could not afford the type of health care given to unwed teens. I had my babies at a birthing center, and dared not ask for anesthesia, because I only had enough money to pay for the basic package. I refused suggested ultrasound because I didn't have the money.

 

I said we should not reward them. I did not say we should punish them.

There has to be some sort of deterant or it will continue to snowball.

 

Sin needs to be forgiven, but there is always consequence to sin even after forgiveness. God forgave Moses, but was not allowed onto the promise land. God forgave David, but he still lost his son. We forgive our children, but we still dicipline them. Do you reward your dc for misbehavior?

 

I know I sound very harsh, but this is WHY the church needs to be the ones helping people. At one church I attended, if people called to get financial help we did an assessment of what they really needed befor handing out money. One time a person asked for food, the church went to their house and found a pantry full of food. The government can't access true needs like a church. If you give free college to pregnant teen to try to help them get ahead, what do you end up with? Lots of teens getting pregnant their senior year. It really happened. Is that sound much more like rewarding than just helping out.

 

Ok, so punish the innocent babies that are being born? I see no grace in place there.

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= If things keep getting worse we will see a break down of basic infrastructure and people living at very low levels, similar to those in third world countries.

 

 

Interesting you should say this, as I just read this article (in the print magazine) earlier this week.

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fund any type of welfare program? If the economy became so bad that there wasn't enough tax revenue to keep social programs going?

 

Do you think this might ever happen?

 

I think you can point to all sorts of time periods in the past where there weren't government funded social programs. The book, Who Really Cares (written by a self identified liberal btw) finds a correlation between a rise in government run programs and a drop in charitable giving in the same area. The book also found that the drop in charitable giving was not made up for by the government programs.

 

Look at the number of hospitals and colleges that were founded as private entities. (I'd love to see what college costs as a percentage of average income over time.)

 

I'm not convinced that we are actually better off with the current levels of social programs (and yes I'm also skeptical of many of the government handouts to businesses, like tax breaks for businesses or film projects or stadiums). But while the system as a whole would probably recover from their removal, there would probably be many individuals who would suffer in the meantime.

 

The worst situation I can foresee would be one where government programs ceased but government regulation of private efforts reigned. (As an example I think of the arrest for "price gouging" of a man who bought a load of generators and brought them to LA after Katrina, selling them above the pre-hurricane price, but having them available for those who needed them right then and there.)

 

I seem to remember reading a book that connected the fall of Rome (with its many social handouts - bread and circuses) to the rise of feudal estates. The estate owners provided a safe place for those fleeing chaos and barbarians. The refugees in turn found themselves indebted to the estate owner and eventually in a state of servitude that they couldn't get out of. I think that I read this in How the Irish Saved Civilization. The ending of Rosemary Sutcliff's The Silver Branch also features a choice between servitude and starvation. That whole book is about what happens as a civilization falls apart.

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You know, I sit here reading these posts thinking, WOW. I read here quite often about someone asking about government assistance, etc. About people having many children and not knowing where next week's grocery money is coming from. But still, for the most part, they are SAHM and are unwilling to compromise that point. Times may be VERY tight for them, and still they say that putting the kids in school and getting a job is out of the question, yet they sign up for WIC, etc.

 

I'm not begrudging anyone assistance. We're all members of the human race, and hey, we all need a hand now and again. But I just don't get how we can talk out of both sides of our mouth! When it's a pregnant teen mom with two kids already, it's distasteful and an unworthy cause. We make judgements that she's "lazy" or "doesn't care" or "just working the system." However, when it's that SAHM homeschooling mom of 12 who is pregnant again and not working, (speaking hypothetically here--- just pulled those examples out of my head) it's such a blessing.

 

I'm guilty of that hypocrisy; I think many of us are. But I do think we as humans have a responsibility to help others in need.

 

Just my late-night thoughts on the eve of turnin' 40, so maybe I"m adopting a bit of that, "I"m going to say what I feel because I'm old now!" :D

 

astrid

 

This was an excellent point. If you believe most people have good in them, and that they hold worth and value as a human being, and that you are imperfect, you stop looking at them with a magnifying glass. Most situations are subjective. We all make choices and our choices could be judged harshly depending on what side of the fence you're standing on.

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I think some people have taken what I said the wrong way. I don't have a problem with government assistance when needed, but there need to be some way to make sure people don't milk the system. I have known, PERSONALLY, many people who have milked the system. For example: a nice lady I once worked with was getting ready to marry the father of their 3 children. Daddy lived at home, but had child support removed from his check and sent right back to his home address. Their youngest twin sons were getting ready to enter kindergarten. Mom and dad were now making plan for the wedding. The reason they didn't get married is because daddy made too much money and if they got married they would loose there daycare supplement. But now the dc would all be in school and the daycare supplement wasn't needed anymore.

 

This really bothers me. Why can't we help people who are trying to do things the right way?

 

 

 

I can give many more example of people milking the system. But I need to get some sleep.

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The thing about church is that not everyone is associated with one. But of course, if you feel that unwed mothers should suffer the consequences without help so they aren't rewarded for poor behaviour, then it's not a stretch for me to conclude that you don't care much about what happens to the non-Christians out there, either. I imagine we shouldn't be rewarded for our failure to accept Jesus as our personal saviour. ;)

 

I do think it's interesting that everyone always talks about those poor people out there abusing the system and soaking up all the cash, when the reality is that there are far bigger fish eating up the tax payer's money than the small percentage of the population committing welfare fraud. I would hope that if things were really getting that bad that government (which is supposed to be representative of the people) would make feeding citizens a priority over corporate welfare, funding wars, etc.

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Yes, they should be helped - a human being in need is a human being in need.

 

I do think we as humans have a responsibility to help others in need.

 

 

 

That pretty much says it all.

 

All this talk of who deserves help and who doesn't is, quite frankly, dehumanizing the issue. :glare:

 

It is so easy to point fingers at others who seem "unworthy" of help, but just remember how many fingers are pointing back at yourself when you do that. (general "you" there)

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I do think it's interesting that everyone always talks about those poor people out there abusing the system and soaking up all the cash, when the reality is that there are far bigger fish eating up the tax payer's money than the small percentage of the population committing welfare fraud. I would hope that if things were really getting that bad that government (which is supposed to be representative of the people) would make feeding citizens a priority over corporate welfare, funding wars, etc.

 

 

Things are getting really bad, there comes a point where even governments must spend within their means, or else everyone suffers.

 

Just where do you get the figure of "a small percentage" when speaking of welfare fraud. It sounds nice, but what is your source? Further it is not simply wellfare fraud but also medicare, WIC, food stamps, section 8 housing.....

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I think some people have taken what I said the wrong way. I don't have a problem with government assistance when needed, but there need to be some way to make sure people don't milk the system. I have known, PERSONALLY, many people who have milked the system. For example: a nice lady I once worked with was getting ready to marry the father of their 3 children. Daddy lived at home, but had child support removed from his check and sent right back to his home address. Their youngest twin sons were getting ready to enter kindergarten. Mom and dad were now making plan for the wedding. The reason they didn't get married is because daddy made too much money and if they got married they would loose there daycare supplement. But now the dc would all be in school and the daycare supplement wasn't needed anymore.

 

This really bothers me. Why can't we help people who are trying to do things the right way?

 

 

 

I can give many more example of people milking the system. But I need to get some sleep.

 

Wow. I guess I must be reading this differently because I don't immediately think about a couple sucking on the teat of public assistance here. Rather, it just reinforces my belief that this country desperately needs affordable, safe, reliable childcare accessible to all who need it. It's tough to work when your income is less than your daycare bill.

 

astrid

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"I, who had babies while married, could not afford the type of health care given to unwed teens. I had my babies at a birthing center, and dared not ask for anesthesia, because I only had enough money to pay for the basic package. I refused suggested ultrasound because I didn't have the money."

 

:grouphug:

 

That must have been horribly traumatic for you. This is why I cast my vote for politicians who believe that adequate health care is the right of EVERY American citizen. You. Me. The pregnant teenager. I'm not interested in whatever moral distinctions some may see between us - a healer's job is to heal, and it would be my pleasure and my privilege as a taxpayer to stop funding wars and start funding a functional public health system.

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Yes, they should be helped - a human being in need is a human being in need.

 

Most churches have become like the government, unfortunately. One would receive more help from goverment programs than their local church.

 

You would need to be a member to receive help, and if you were able to get help, they would expect something in return. Bodies in the church = $

 

Most churches are not even able to help their own. I say most, not all, but most.

 

Maybe it's self fulfilling, but this does not describe the churches I have attended. Our church in Virginia formed a consortium of churches across denominations so that one specialized in a food pantry, another in a free/low priced clothing closet, another in household goods and furniture, and another in cash grants. Our church mostly did the cash grants because we had one of the larger memberships. MOST of the grants were to people who were not only non-members but hadn't ever even attended.

 

Someone would call the church office asking for help. They were referred to a deacon, who would contact the city to verify need (and to help them get plugged into government programs that they might be eligible for and not know about). Then the church would figure out how to give assistance, like pay a bill, give them a gift card for the grocery store, etc. Often they were asked to do an odd job in return for the grant, like mowing a lawn or cleaning gutters. This work was done for people who needed help in those areas, like senior citizens or widows.

 

Our last church had several outreach programs, most of them for non-members, from serving at a downtown food kitchen, to having homeless families living in the church for a week each quarter (with church members cooking food for them), to doing tutoring and mentoring at a local public school.

 

I'm sure that there are churches that are more about feathering their own nest than caring for God's sheep. And I wouldn't be really bothered by a higher level of support for fellow church members (and friends). But I just haven't seen that sort of empire building in the churches we've attended. What I have seen is weekly mentions of multiple opportunities to serve the wider community.

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:grouphug:

 

That must have been horribly traumatic for you. This is why I cast my vote for politicians who believe that adequate health care is the right of EVERY American citizen. You. Me. The pregnant teenager. I'm not interested in whatever moral distinctions some may see between us - a healer's job is to heal, and it would be my pleasure and my privilege as a taxpayer to stop funding wars and start funding a functional public health system.

 

 

OH WOW!!!! BRAVO!!! I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH EVERY. SINGLE. WORD.

 

Thank you!!!

 

astrid

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:tongue_smilie:

Wow. This is pretty harsh. I think you need more exposure with poor people.

YES, there are some people who take advantage of the system. But the reality is, for most programs you have to be working, looking for work, in a government directed work program, or getting an education. Most of the people I know on government programs would JUMP at the chance to have a better lifestyle.

 

If all programs were suddenly stopped, it would be devastating to me. I depend on food stamps and medicaid. If I couldn't get those two things, I'd have to go to work. Which would mean dropping out of school, putting my daughter in school, and making not enough money to live off of. Instead, I have access to these two programs which will be temporary for us, and will give me time to finish my education and put my daughter and I in a much better place for the rest of our lives.

I had a child out of wedlock. (Wow... just had a flashback to the 1950s with that term. :lol:) I am now in an honors program at a respected college, raising my daughter to be a loving, God-honoring, intelligent person. Call it whatever you want, but I call it a darn good outcome.

 

As for the Church providing social services... what about those who are not religious? Do they not deserve help also? I do believe the Church should assist those it can, but it can't do everything.

 

I know EVERYBODY is going to HATE me when I say this, but because you had a child while not married, you are going to be able to avoid having up to $100,000 of school loan debt where as a person didn't have child is forced to pay for it all, if their parents made too much money to qualify for grants? Who helps put their lives back together? Who is being punished?

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WHY does ANYONE have to be "punished?"

 

Why is it punitive? And what would an appropriate "punishment" be, in your opinion?

 

I see a mom working hard to make a better life for herself and her daughter. Though I'm vehemently pro-choice, I applaud that mom for choosing to HAVE the baby (surely you pro-life folks can agree with that?) and working hard to avoid becoming yet another statistic of unwed mothers who live in poverty, and repeat the cycle.

 

astrid

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Just where do you get the figure of "a small percentage" when speaking of welfare fraud. It sounds nice, but what is your source? Further it is not simply wellfare fraud but also medicare, WIC, food stamps, section 8 housing.....

 

Several years back I read an article that said (if I recall correctly) that less than 1% of people receiving assistance were committing welfare fraud. I'll try a little Google magic later to see if I can turn up a source for that, or something similar.

 

And yes, there are other services that cost money as well... but not everyone views those services as a bad use of taxes. I would personally much rather people be fed with the support of my tax dollars than have them stave to death down the street from me. Were there another reasonable option in place to help support these people then fine, but for right now it appears that government funding is it.

 

Wow. I guess I must be reading this differently because I don't immediately think about a couple sucking on the teat of public assistance here. Rather, it just reinforces my belief that this country desperately needs affordable, safe, reliable childcare accessible to all who need it. It's tough to work when your income is less than your daycare bill.

 

astrid

 

Yes, that was my thought reading it as well.

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:tongue_smilie:

 

I know EVERYBODY is going to HATE me when I say this, but because you had a child while not married, you are going to be able to avoid having up to $100,000 of school loan debt where as a person didn't have child is forced to pay for it all, if their parents made too much money to qualify for grants? Who helps put their lives back together? Who is being punished?

 

 

Not hating you at all, but your posts do sound like you've had a lot of garbage thrown at you in life and you're hanging on to some bitterness there. None of that garbage is the fault of the teenage mom who gets welfare or anyone else on assistance. I hope you know that it's not your fault either.

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This is why I cast my vote for politicians who believe that adequate health care is the right of EVERY American citizen.... I'm not interested in whatever moral distinctions some may see between us .... and it would be my pleasure and my privilege as a taxpayer to stop funding wars and start funding a functional public health system.

 

It might be your pleasure, but that does not speak for everyone.

 

Why just "every American", if you are not interested in moral distinctions then surely you mean every person, so now the taxpayer can pay for illegals and fund a functional public health system in Moldova? If you are willing to take money out of the taxpayers pocket in this nation to provide a RIGHT surely it is also "moral" do do so for the rest of the world? Should a line on a map should stop our paying for functioning public health? Where do we stop or do we allow nationalist biases to limit our generosity?

 

Is it just wars you will stop funding or is it national defense?

 

Where in the Constitution does it delineate a RIGHT to free healthcare?

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I'm sorry, pqr. I don't find your questions to be at all sincere. Past reading here leads me to believe that they are meant to provoke, thus affording you the opportunity to rail against all that you find objectionable, and to do so in a less-than-friendly manner. Nope. Not buyin' what you're sellin', and not engaging, but thanks anyway.

 

Peace out, dude.

 

astrid

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I'm sorry, pqr. I don't find your questions to be at all sincere. Past reading here leads me to believe that they are meant to provoke, thus affording you the opportunity to rail against all that you find objectionable, and to do so in a less-than-friendly manner. Nope. Not buyin' what you're sellin', and not engaging, but thanks anyway.

 

Peace out, dude.

 

astrid

 

They were meant to be thought provoking. Following an idea to its conclusion is valuable. The issue of illegals was brought up by people on both sides of the issue during the HC debates. IIR there were calls by some in the UN for a global right to Health care and a global sales tax to pay for it.

 

Why less than friendly? People can disagree and still be on good terms, no?

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WHY does ANYONE have to be "punished?"

 

Why is it punitive? And what would an appropriate "punishment" be, in your opinion?

 

I see a mom working hard to make a better life for herself and her daughter. Though I'm vehemently pro-choice, I applaud that mom for choosing to HAVE the baby (surely you pro-life folks can agree with that?) and working hard to avoid becoming yet another statistic of unwed mothers who live in poverty, and repeat the cycle.

 

astrid

:hurray:

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Why less than friendly? People can disagree and still be on good terms, no?

 

Yes, they certainly can. However, when reading your replies to people with whom you disagree, I always seem to detect contempt and intense dislike, even belittling. Perhaps it's just my perception.

 

astrid

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I'm sorry, pqr. I don't find your questions to be at all sincere. Past reading here leads me to believe that they are meant to provoke, thus affording you the opportunity to rail against all that you find objectionable, and to do so in a less-than-friendly manner. Nope. Not buyin' what you're sellin', and not engaging, but thanks anyway.

 

Peace out, dude.

 

astrid

 

 

Astrid, I think the link you're looking for is on your profile page under "Settings and Options." :001_smile:

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Yes, they certainly can. However, when reading your replies to people with whom you disagree, I always seem to detect contempt and intense dislike, even belittling. Perhaps it's just my perception.

 

astrid

 

 

If you detect that then perhaps mea culpa. I do try to remain polite whatever my feelings may be about an argument.

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Not hating you at all, but your posts do sound like you've had a lot of garbage thrown at you in life and you're hanging on to some bitterness there. None of that garbage is the fault of the teenage mom who gets welfare or anyone else on assistance. I hope you know that it's not your fault either.

 

Thank you Audrey. You are right. I do have baggage. I had two miscarriages while I was the youth leader at a previous church. Two of the teen girls got pregnant, had all the ultrasounds they needed and free health care. Eventhough I had insurance, we were stuck with big bills from my emergency dnc after I hemaraged with my second miscarriage.

It wasn't an "oops" we had sex once with the teen girls. They were sleeping with their boyfriends regulary. One moved in with the boyfriend.

It pained me to know that I could provide a good loving home for a baby while silly teens, who wern't emotionally capiable of taking care of themselves, were having babies. I know I shouldn't have felt this way, but I was grieving and feeling like I was being punish for being a responsiable adult and they were rewarded with beautiful babies. I still do sometimes.

 

Thank you for seeing through my words and reminding me why I am so bothered by this. My reason for starting this post was not to bash public assistance, rather it was a desire to see what the future could possiably look like in hopes to prepare.

 

It has become very turned around. I am really worried about the economy and what we need to do to prepare.

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