Questions about modern foreign languages

[Kfamily]

I was reading a thread on the general board where the replies supported what I really knew deep down about learning foreign languages. I know that you cannot become fluent in a modern foreign language without someone being involved who is fluent in that language. So, while I want to expose my children to other languages I cannot hope for fluency unless we can find a class or tutor. I do hope that in the near future I might find a tutor or class to support our efforts, but I am not sure if/when that will become a reality.

Here is what I was wondering:

 

Is is still worth the time and effort to work on a modern foreign language if the possibility of a tutor/class could still be years away?

 

I have always thought that introducing the language while my girls were young (I can still do this with my younger dd) would be extremely important. Will learning a language while younger at least put it in her ear? (This expression is from our Suzuki piano music work. We listen to the cd daily to put the music in her ear. Then her brain has already made a place for the music.) So while I am still learning how to speak French and can only speak German slightly, will the exposure be enough for now?

 

I guess I worry we will put a lot of time into the languages and end up not really accomplishing anything significant. Does that make sense? The girls love learning the languages.

Is love of learning and exposure worth the time?

 

Also, I wondered would our time be better spent with ancient languages since a spoken fluency is not as necessary. We could put our time in these languages and at least reach a level of reading and writing that would be an outcome equal to our input. Does that make sense?

 

I hope this makes sense...:lol:

Thanks for any thoughts about this!

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Even if they aren't becoming fluent, children exposed to foreign languages have a much easier time picking them up. I definitely think it is worth it. A child who is exposed to the language (through the written word, through textbooks, through videos and music...) is more likely to have the right accent.

 

My daughter does French now, and in about 2 years will start German. I am not fluent in either, although I am passable in French and just started studying German. But even if she doesn't get fluent, she will still have had plenty of exposure, and it will make becoming fluent as an adult easier.

(Hope all this made sense... I'm on a time limit... told DD she could have the computer in 5 minutes! :D)

[regentrude]

It is always useful to work on a foreign language. Even if a student would become only proficient in reading and writing and not fluent in conversation, it is a HUGE improvement over not knowing the language at all. Also, with modern technology of computers, audio CDs and movies, you can get pretty far without a tutor.

 

What I found absolutely necessary, however, is some disciplined approach. Just "exposure" as practiced in many public schools, which consists of 30 minutes a week listening to songs in that language, is a waste of time.

Before the kids can read, immersion is great if you have a native speaker of the language available. This would be the easiest way to learn a language, but you need to have them immersed in that environment for several hours a day.

If not, it is more effective to wait till the kids can read and then use instruction in writing/reading/speaking simultaneously. For this, you do not need a native speaker for quite some time; to become proficient in conversation, you will eventually have to have access. But that can be several years down the road. In the meantime, the student can perfect their vocabulary, grammar and reading comprehension.

[Kfamily]

Thank you both. This is encouraging. I know we want to continue, but sometimes I worry we do not do enough. I do plan to add as much as I can to our studies (viewing movies in the language, dictionaries, audios of books in the language, conversational time, etc.) as well as add a tutor or class as soon as I can.

[regentrude]

Thank you both. This is encouraging. I know we want to continue, but sometimes I worry we do not do enough.

 

Oh, I constantly worry we do not do enough, LOL.

We had a tutor for French the last year and it was wonderful - not only because we had somebody to speak with, but more importantly we had somebody who kept us on our toes, so we had to be accountable. I am learning French along with DD - with the weekly deadline we would be diligent with our homework and be prepared... it is much easier to let the language slide if there is no outside commitment.

[Ester Maria]

Is is still worth the time and effort to work on a modern foreign language if the possibility of a tutor/class could still be years away?

Yes.

Will learning a language while younger at least put it in her ear?

Yes, but you want to make sure they hear plenty of NATIVE material, as opposed to plenty of mom speaking a language she doesn't know well.

will the exposure be enough for now?

Nope, not at these ages at least; you need to accompany it with some formal studying of the grammar and vocabulary in order to profit from it.

Also, I wondered would our time be better spent with ancient languages since a spoken fluency is not as necessary. We could put our time in these languages and at least reach a level of reading and writing that would be an outcome equal to our input. Does that make sense?

Study ancient languages if you're interested in ancient languages, not as a substitute for proficiency in a modern foreign language. Also, keep in mind that the kind of diachronic communication with the text is impossible to achieve without a thorough study of the historical and cultural context (not only the language), and that classics themselves are further removed from your experience, in addition to being morphologically more complex, so it's not exactly that studying them is necessarily an easier road.

[Kfamily]

Thanks, Ester Maria!

 

And to clarify, we are using and will continue to use a formal grammar and vocabulary program. As soon as I gain some more ground in my own studies (ahead of them), and some extra supplements (dictionaries you recommended, etc.) arrive, I will do all that I can to make our studies even more formal.

 

We are studying latin, but I am considering Wheelock's Latin per your recommendations!:001_smile:

Edited September 12, 2010 by Kfamily

[Guest]

I only skimmed briefly through the other posts but I thought I would share my story with you. When my family first moved to Canada I was 4 years old and we moved to the French speaking part of Canada at the time. Since I was too young for school and my parents had to work (one night and one day shift) my babysitter was the Television. My favorite show, Sesame Street. Through Sesame Street and some temporary daycare while my parents where both out during the day I learned how to speak French. I then went to a semi-private school in grade 1 and at the start of grade two we moved to Ontario where I did very little French before we moved back to Greece after grade 4, and while I continued with my English through private lessons, I never did French again. Well, I can still remember most of the songs from those day. I remember many words and I can understand certain things if I hear someone speak slowly. So my thoughts? Any exposure is good and I'm sticking with that :D. The only time I feel that you can lose is if you don't at least try ;).

[patchfire]

Study ancient languages if you're interested in ancient languages, not as a substitute for proficiency in a modern foreign language.

 

:iagree:

 

I cannot tell you how often I have wished someone would have pointed this out to me when I was selecting a language in high school. I don't regret my study of Latin, but oh, I do regret my lack of a study of a modern foreign language.

[PeterPan]

Wow, if you're making progress AND they're enjoying it, isn't that enough??? To put this whole weight of *fluency* on yourself as a goal is just too much. Most people coming out of college with majors aren't fluent, not unless they studied abroad. Even quality levels in major programs differ. I remember going into a summer program after graduating from high school. I tested into 3rd year of the language (as a rising college freshman) and was in with people who had been juniors at college. My HIGHSCHOOL taught me more of the language than their university!!! (Needless to say, they were bummed.)

 

And how about the real reality check, that book fluency and functional fluency are not one in the same? After 4 years of college russian, I still didn't know how to say anything useful like asking where to take the bucket with the trash or even just the word for the bucket. Somehow our textbooks, translation, and conversation classes never thought that was important. ;)

 

You have to be your own answer on this. You have to set up some concrete goals and see your progress, and that will be good enough.

[Kfamily]

:grouphug:

 

I'm so glad you're back, Oh Elizabeth! I have missed your input.:001_smile:

[Pata]

Wow, if you're making progress AND they're enjoying it, isn't that enough??? To put this whole weight of *fluency* on yourself as a goal is just too much. Most people coming out of college with majors aren't fluent, not unless they studied abroad. Even quality levels in major programs differ. I remember going into a summer program after graduating from high school. I tested into 3rd year of the language (as a rising college freshman) and was in with people who had been juniors at college. My HIGHSCHOOL taught me more of the language than their university!!! (Needless to say, they were bummed.)

 

And how about the real reality check, that book fluency and functional fluency are not one in the same? After 4 years of college russian, I still didn't know how to say anything useful like asking where to take the bucket with the trash or even just the word for the bucket. Somehow our textbooks, translation, and conversation classes never thought that was important. ;)

 

You have to be your own answer on this. You have to set up some concrete goals and see your progress, and that will be good enough.

 

:hurray: Wonderful post! I took 3 years of Spanish and when I moved to Peru it didn't get me past the airport door. However my functional fluency came a lot quicker than my dh's who never had any Spanish, plus my grammar was a lot better because I had a basis to start from. As long as you are listening to a native speaker (via CD or podcast) you will acquire an ear for the language and it will be easier to pick it up one day when you actually get to live there :). Just let them enjoy the journey!

[Brindee]

Wow, if you're making progress AND they're enjoying it, isn't that enough??? To put this whole weight of *fluency* on yourself as a goal is just too much. Most people coming out of college with majors aren't fluent, not unless they studied abroad.

 

You have to be your own answer on this. You have to set up some concrete goals and see your progress, and that will be good enough.

 

Just let them enjoy the journey!

:iagree:

 

If you push them too much so they will be "fluent" learning, it could take the joy out of the learning process! It's easier to learn something you enjoy, than push through because it's another class!

 

NOT THAT YOU'RE PUSHING! I'm just saying, there's a line that I'm sure you're aware of. :001_smile: