surprised by middle school lit. selection

[RamonaQ]

My 6th grade level son (who is homeschooled) just told me that the 6th graders at the local middle school are reading "The Kite Runner". I have to say I am really surprised. There were many things that I loved about that book-- questions of personal courage, morality, shame and redemption. However, I felt many of the topics were really rather more adult, least of all one particular scene. So far the reports are that the kids don't like it at all.

 

Am I woefully out of touch? Is this what is expected at middle school? What do you think?

[Gooblink]

6th grade? Man, Kite Runner is a heavy book with mature themes and language. I do not feel it's appropriate for that age.

[Guest]

Way, way out of line; in fact so far out that I can no longer see the line. As for the rationale or thinking behind this, a few years ago Barbara Feinberg published a book called Welcome to the Lizard Motel, about her middle school son's literature class syllabus which is still relevant here, although the Lizard Motel book talks mostly about books specifically marketed to young adults (which Kite Runner is most definitely NOT).

[Mrs Mungo]

6th grade? Man, Kite Runner is a heavy book with mature themes and language. I do not feel it's appropriate for that age.

 

:iagree:

[oldskool]

I don't think it is appropriate for middle school. But then again I heard of an elementary school teacher that read A Child Called It to her class. So, it seems that the line between young adults and adults is blurred.

[Cinder]

I agree with the pp's--middle school is too young for this book.

 

Cinder

[mommaduck]

I don't think it is appropriate for middle school. But then again I heard of an elementary school teacher that read A Child Called It to her class. So, it seems that the line between young adults and adults is blurred.

Oh my goodness! That is a book that not even some adults are able to handle.

[duckens]

I have not read the Kite Runner.

 

If I was a parent, I would ask, "WHY???"

 

When my brother was in 9th grade (public school), his class read Stephen King's Carrie.

 

My mother asked, in her very non-confrontational and non-critical way, "Why???"

 

The teacher explained that she required the students to read the first chapter of the book. (This is a VERY graphic scene of high school girls throwing bloody pads and tampons at Carrie in the shower after gym; Carrie is very obviously not a popular girl, and she does not understand what is happening to her body when she starts to menstruate in the gym shower).

 

Then, my brother's teacher would ask the class if they had ever seen teasing/bullying going on. Yep! Lots of students raised their hands and shared numerous examples and situations.

 

Then, my brother's teacher would ask the class if anyone had participated in teasing/bullying other students like that.

 

.......SILENCE.

 

You have to wonder what the whole class was thinking at that time, and how it affected them for the rest of the year.

 

Sometimes you just need to ask the teacher.

[meet me in paris]

No, not out of touch. I think they're too young.

 

Lots of books with heavy themes are introduced in high school... I'm okay with that. They're much more ready to handle it at 16 than at 12. Kite Runner is an adult book, no doubt about it.

[Danestress]

What are they thinking? My stars. That book was so intense and explosive. I sometimes wonder if it's insensitive, careless reading that makes people think this kind of book is fine for that age group.

[Ester Maria]

I have kids that are that age, and they could handle The Kite Runner. It's heavy, though, and requires some adult help with regards to the cultural and historical background - but not impossible for an interested middle schooler. I wouldn't assign it, though.

[Crissy]

What do you think?

 

I do think there are some 6th grade children who could handle the weight of the themes and language in The Kite Runner, but I know my child isn't one of them.

I cannot imagine assigning such a book to a classroom full of kids, not knowing whether each of them had someone at home with whom they could discuss the sensitive topics.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have kids that are that age, and they could handle The Kite Runner. It's heavy, though, and requires some adult help with regards to the cultural and historical background - but not impossible for an interested middle schooler. I wouldn't assign it, though.

 

The problem I have? I'm not sure how to put this delicately, but I just know *too much* about the cultural implications. I think one of the most difficult things for US soldiers in Afghanistan to handle is the way in which children are treated. I'm not sure *I* could handle guiding a child through the precarious issues without a heavy dose of cultural bias. KWIM?

[Jen+4dc]

I do think there are some 6th grade children who could handle the weight of the themes and language in The Kite Runner, but I know my child isn't one of them.

I cannot imagine assigning such a book to a classroom full of kids, not knowing whether each of them had someone at home with whom they could discuss the sensitive topics.

:scared::scared::ack2::confused:

 

If my kid were in that class I would be having a discussion with the teacher, and then, if necessary, with the principal.

 

IRL, I, personally, do NOT know one single kid that age who could handle that book. I read it a couple years ago and it haunted me for months. Really, I thought about it for months afterwards. I'm glad I read it, I learned a lot about myself and others, but it is NOT appropriate for that age. If you need to discuss some of the themes in that book for some reason there has got to be a better book to use for that age. There just has to!

[MIch elle]

My ds read it in 10th grade at his school. It's NOT appropriate for gr. 6!

[Thea]

Holy Guacamole! Two grown women in my book club had a difficult time with that book. Whatever happened to Tuck Everlasting?

[dcurry]

Are you sure it was the Kite Runners and not the Kite Fighters? My kids read the Kite Fighters in middle school and enjoyed it.

[Crissy]

:scared::scared::ack2::confused:

 

IRL, I, personally, do NOT know one single kid that age who could handle that book.

 

I don't either, but a previous poster said her child could handle the material and I am taking her at her word.

 

Just wanted to clarify that.

[Ester Maria]

The problem I have? I'm not sure how to put this delicately, but I just know *too much* about the cultural implications. I think one of the most difficult things for US soldiers in Afghanistan to handle is the way in which children are treated. I'm not sure *I* could handle guiding a child through the precarious issues without a heavy dose of cultural bias. KWIM?

I know, and I agree with you and all the members that wouldn't assign such a work.

 

It's just that, as a mother of a pretty impossible 13 y.o. whose reading I can no longer "control", I've been quite surprised at times how well she handles some very difficult literature. I can think of two or three Afghanistan-specific works: Bredwinner, which is actually geared towards children (age 9-12, they say), but also this work, which not only is not suitable for children, but it's very, very brutal, just like this one. My daughter read all of them, to my dismay, but coped extremely well with them - so in the spirit of those works, The Kite Runner is not the worst I can think of.

 

The only book "of that type" which I openly asked her not to read (and I rarely resort to doing that) was The Infidel. At least for now.

 

I totally get why parents would be disturbed, and why such books shouldn't be assigned to a whole class where you can't predict how well the kids will cope with them. I'm not sure my other daughter would cope with those works nearly as well as my 13 y.o. did.

[LauraGB]

I'm not sure how a 6th grader, whose wisdom is so underdeveloped due to thier sheer lack of years and experiences, can possibly even understand the gravity of that book. I'm sure many can *get it*, but to even come close to understanding...I don't know if there is a class room full of those children in existence. Unfortunately, I think this kind of is along the same lines as all the other desensitizing material tossed at children at too young an age.

 

Oh, and I wouldn't allow it. And I'd tell the teacher, the principal, the district fellows, all of them. And the reason I'd give is the one I posted above. And then I'd follow that up with the horrible scene in that book; a scene in which the image is definitely not one I want my 12 year old to have to conjure in his/her head.

Edited September 9, 2010 by LauraGB
sentence made absolutely no sense

[StephanieZ]

Not at all over-reacting. I would flip out. I had a really rough time with that scene and wouldn't recommend the book to anyone!

[Gooblink]

Are you sure it was the Kite Runners and not the Kite Fighters? My kids read the Kite Fighters in middle school and enjoyed it.

 

Now that makes sense.

[Danestress]

whether a child is "handling" a book well? I guess that's what I would be curious about if this were being read in a group setting, which I realize you also think is a bad idea. But this raised a question for me.

 

With my own child, we could have conversations that would give me insight. We could talk about discrimination, sin, redemption, the power of family secrets, the betrayal of relationships, God's forgiveness, human forgiveness, self forgiveness.

 

And these same themes could come out in a class room, but how would I, as a teacher, really know whether a child is really 'handling' that horrific rape scene well internally? I am not sure I would know that about my own child either, at least not until after a period of time.

 

My mother let me read Sophie's Choice at about this age. She let me read pretty much whatever I wanted. It's haunted me for 30 years and to this day, I wish I could unread it. I can't really tell you, though, whether I "handled" it well or not. Is having 30 years of intrusive thoughts and irrational anxiety mishandling it? Or is it, given the incredible sin and historical reality of those (albeit fictionalized) types of situations, just being human? Would not really thinking about it or being entertained but not moved be handling it worse?

 

Part of me thinks, "Well, if real people had to live through that, the least I can do is to read it and suffer through it vicariously, remembering those who were victims." But that's for me. For my child, it's a different situation. And to ask someone else to let me guide their child through it seems ---- unwise. I would not know who was handling it worse - the child crying in the hall or the child shrugging and saying, "Ho hum, r@pe," or the child choosing to discuss the novel intelligently without allowing herself to really feel it's horror.

[Ester Maria]

I'm not sure how a 6th grader, whose wisdom is so underdeveloped due to thier sheer lack of years and experiences, can possibly even understand the gravity of that book. I'm sure many can *get it*, but to even come close to understanding...I don't know if there is a class room full of those children in existence.

Is there a classroom full of adults that can truly understand, and aren't at least from the broad region, if not from the country itself? The only difference is that adults are, maybe, a bit more knowledgeable and a bit more experienced in the big world out there.

 

I know a whole lot of adults that lived their whole lives "by the book" (school, university, marriage, kids, etc.), without huge distractions on the way, and whose emotional growing up was shaped by the "normal" experiences in the "normal" circumstances. On the other hand, I have my kids who happened to be in Israel in the summer of '06 when the war broke, as well as in Eilat last summer when a few rockets just missed it, who know all too well the news about buses exploding and alike, are used to seeing soldiers on every corner, and whom we had to teach some "life skills" of how to access embassies and escapes countries in hurry should such things happen sometime in the future. Who is more "prepared" to read a brutal novel on wars and human nature, my kids who are barely teens, but have seen a glimpse (and thank God, ONLY a glimpse) of a reality far harsher than the one they live and have emotionally been shaped by some very unordinary events, or those wise adults, but who've never seen first hand at least a glimpse of a more brutal reality?

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but one's chronological age is only one of the factors in question... Often it's not even about straightforward understanding, intellectual, but about recognizing some of the things on a more emotional level.

 

I found that my kids are so profoundly disturbed by the current situation in the broad region that they NEED a way to cope with it, actively, rather than us hushing it away from them and telling them they're too young for it. It has a nearly soothing effect to read works like that in some cases, and see the written experience of some of that anguish that you approached at some point.

 

Also, much of great literature is essentially disturbing. That same daughter has a thing for Baudelaire, who is one of the more problematic authors I can think of. We make our kids read so many problematic works: from Verga's and Diderot's girls that are forced to enter monasteries, to Dostoevsky who depicted human condition with near perfect precision ("cuts the soul like a razor") and whose novels are just plain brutal at times, to Balzac, who is very similar, not to even mention Zola. Much of Dante is profoundly difficult to handle and rereading him as an adult you notice the shades you never noticed before. Zeno's Conscience is a killer. Proust? Not to read before mid-aged. And what about Hardy, what about Sabato, Levi and so forth? And, at the end of the day, what about BIBLE, that's possibly the most brutal work out there, with incredibly difficult scenes?

 

Seriously, when put in context... The Kite Runner is not that much of an issue. I wouldn't offer it to a middle schooler, but if they find it on their own, they might even cope with it surprisingly well. For "real understanding" they can always reread it later, as we do with all books that had a profound effect on us, or that didn't, but we wish to reread. And they can also always put down the book that really upsets them and that they don't want to deal with any longer. Unless some crazy professor assigns it in middle school.

[jenL]

Middle school... absolutely not! I hesitate to even say high school.

[Amy in TX]

Is there a classroom full of adults that can truly understand, and aren't at least from the broad region, if not from the country itself? The only difference is that adults are, maybe, a bit more knowledgeable and a bit more experienced in the big world out there.

 

I'm curious as to why you think an understanding of the region (Afghanistan? Central Asia?) is essential to understanding the book. To me, the book's themes were universal (courage, loyalty, failure, redemption, father/son dynamics, rediscovering one's faith). Surely the incidents in the book (sociopathic teens, pedophilia, war, sibling rivalry) occur and have occurred in every time and culture.

 

Also, much of great literature is essentially disturbing. That same daughter has a thing for Baudelaire, who is one of the more problematic authors I can think of. We make our kids read so many problematic works: from Verga's and Diderot's girls that are forced to enter monasteries, to Dostoevsky who depicted human condition with near perfect precision ("cuts the soul like a razor") and whose novels are just plain brutal at times, to Balzac, who is very similar, not to even mention Zola. Much of Dante is profoundly difficult to handle and rereading him as an adult you notice the shades you never noticed before. Zeno's Conscience is a killer. Proust? Not to read before mid-aged. And what about Hardy, what about Sabato, Levi and so forth? And, at the end of the day, what about BIBLE, that's possibly the most brutal work out there, with incredibly difficult scenes?

 

 

I totally agree. I believe that young people (not small children) need to understand the evil and suffering that exists in the world. And every young person is ready for different levels of detail at different times. And a parent who knows the young person intimately is the best judge of what they are ready for. I allowed my elder dd to read The Kite Runner when she was 13, but I won't allow my younger dd to read it at that age. They are very different personalities. (That's what makes it inappropriate for a teacher to assign this book to a group of students with whom she is not intimately familiar, and whose family's values she does not necessarily share.)

 

Amy :)

[Ester Maria]

I'm curious as to why you think an understanding of the region (Afghanistan? Central Asia?) is essential to understanding the book. To me, the book's themes were universal (courage, loyalty, failure, redemption, father/son dynamics, rediscovering one's faith). Surely the incidents in the book (sociopathic teens, pedophilia, war, sibling rivalry) occur and have occurred in every time and culture.

There are several "layers" to understanding a book. That doesn't mean that what a certain "layer" requires of you is essential to getting a personal pleasure and benefit from reading a book, though. You can read many books in many different ways and very often when you reread the books you have once read, you reread them in a totally different "key" (imagine it musically it your mind).

 

I'm actually a formalist, "professionally", and totally ditch any author/place/moment positivist approach - when I talk about literature strictly as artistic texts.

However, if we aren't reading a book on that level, the context often matters and changes the "key" of our reading. You do need some, albeit general, grasp of the history of the region to follow some works in some "keys".

My remark was more along the lines of personal experience than concrete knowledge, personal glimpse of something more chaotic and sadder than our immediate reality. People can identify with certain readings to different levels based on, shall we call it, "emotional maturity". You have 50 year olds that have lived their entire lives in ivory towers, emotionally. You have 13 year olds that can understand such violent, disturbing readings much better due to certain internalized understanding of some commonplaces regarding the intensity of human emotions (esp. regarding fear and those intense emotions that happen in extreme situations) that they got to experience or come in contact with at such a young age (which is more often than not NOT a good thing, that life innocence flows away waaay too fast even without it...). Of course, most people are somewhere in the middle. Chronological age isn't a good arbiter of "readiness" when we approach children individually, albeit probably the best one we have so far when approaching the children collectively - that's why assigning such a work to a bunch of 12 year old kids is a potentially catastrophic idea, because you don't know each child individually and how they're going to react. High school, and especially college, are still a bit of a different story than middle school.

 

I do agree with others on this thread - the most problematic things about this book are the graphic elements of violence in its very concrete content, rather than historical and other subtleties. It's definitely a minority that will react well on it at that age. I think part of the reason why my daughter does (and to those books which I mentioned and which are in many aspects just as bad or worse) is because I indoctrinated her to access literature from the point of view of the form, as an artistic text where the HOW is more important than the WHAT, so it's a sort of "shelter", somewhat. But I do find she needs to read such hard books. I would prefer her not to, but I find it more harmful to outright forbid and create the "forbidden fruit" syndrom.

[LauraGB]

I know a whole lot of adults that lived their whole lives "by the book" (school, university, marriage, kids, etc.), without huge distractions on the way, and whose emotional growing up was shaped by the "normal" experiences in the "normal" circumstances. On the other hand, I have my kids who happened to be in Israel in the summer of '06 when the war broke, as well as in Eilat last summer when a few rockets just missed it, who know all too well the news about buses exploding and alike, are used to seeing soldiers on every corner, and whom we had to teach some "life skills" of how to access embassies and escapes countries in hurry should such things happen sometime in the future. Who is more "prepared" to read a brutal novel on wars and human nature, my kids who are barely teens, but have seen a glimpse (and thank God, ONLY a glimpse) of a reality far harsher than the one they live and have emotionally been shaped by some very unordinary events, or those wise adults, but who've never seen first hand at least a glimpse of a more brutal reality?

 

I found that my kids are so profoundly disturbed by the current situation in the broad region that they NEED a way to cope with it, actively, rather than us hushing it away from them and telling them they're too young for it. It has a nearly soothing effect to read works like that in some cases, and see the written experience of some of that anguish that you approached at some point..

 

Seriously, when put in context... The Kite Runner is not that much of an issue. I wouldn't offer it to a middle schooler, but if they find it on their own, they might even cope with it surprisingly well. For "real understanding" they can always reread it later, as we do with all books that had a profound effect on us, or that didn't, but we wish to reread. And they can also always put down the book that really upsets them and that they don't want to deal with any longer. Unless some crazy professor assigns it in middle school.

 

I think we agree; this is not a story for the average 11-12 year old - it is difficult for the average adult to understand and even digest. I think this sort of book is definitely a parent/child decision. Not a teacher/school assignment at this age.

 

 

 

I'm no saint when it comes to what my kids have read (especially dd). But what I have found upon discussion of some of the stories is that she really didn't fully understand what was being put forth; she thought she did, and she made a great case for much, but there are too many things she simply *couldn't* know at this age, with her exposure to experiences, no matter how mature she may be. Children at this age vary with life experience. I think it was foolish for this to be assigned to this age group.

[Ester Maria]

I think we agree; this is not a story for the average 11-12 year old - it is difficult for the average adult to understand and even digest. I think this sort of book is definitely a parent/child decision. Not a teacher/school assignment at this age.

Yes, we fully agree, I'm just blabbering a lot today and feeling like writing elaborated comments so one might get an impression I disagree. :)

I'm no saint when it comes to what my kids have read (especially dd). But what I have found upon discussion of some of the stories is that she really didn't fully understand what was being put forth; she thought she did, and she made a great case for much, but there are too many things she simply *couldn't* know at this age, with her exposure to experiences, no matter how mature she may be.

I sometimes struggle with this too.

 

At times, but rarely, I ask my daughter not to read a certain book - I try not to resort to that, since generally I don't want to create a forbidden fruit, but some works open some direction that I really, really would prefer her to be innocent about for a little more.

Most of the time I just talk to her to the level she has understood, and I find it great that we've built trust to talk at all about some problematic readings. I certainly prefer her to read those and discuss them with me, than to hide them and have to digest some awfully complex things on her own.

 

But this type of books are something that I don't think should be assigned in the school setting at that age.

[Amy in TX]

My remark was more along the lines of personal experience than concrete knowledge, personal glimpse of something more chaotic and sadder than our immediate reality.

 

I see. I thought you were speaking geographically.

 

:)

[Melissa B]

Are you sure it was the Kite Runners and not the Kite Fighters? My kids read the Kite Fighters in middle school and enjoyed it.

 

Or perhaps The Kite Rider?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kite-Rider-Geraldine-Mccaughrean/dp/0064410919/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284079368&sr=1-1

[Daisy]

My daughter is in 6th grade. She is turning 11yo tomorrow. There is no flippin' way I would let her read that book. I had a hard time reading it. Honestly, I don't even think a 6th grader could appreciate the book, must less handle the graphic violence and loss of innocence portrayed.

[Perry]

I am guessing this is a misunderstanding. Why not call the school and find out?

[astrid]

I have kids that are that age, and they could handle The Kite Runner. It's heavy, though, and requires some adult help with regards to the cultural and historical background - but not impossible for an interested middle schooler. I wouldn't assign it, though.

 

:iagree:

 

 

astrid

[TravelingChris]

I am hoping that is a misunderstanding. I can't see how such a book would be assigned to 11 or 12 yo kids.

[Kathleen in VA]

Are you sure it was the Kite Runners and not the Kite Fighters? My kids read the Kite Fighters in middle school and enjoyed it.

 

I am guessing this is a misunderstanding. Why not call the school and find out?

 

:iagree:How did he find out about this? I'm thinking he's got his titles mixed up.

[RamonaQ]

:iagree:How did he find out about this? I'm thinking he's got his titles mixed up.

 

I am now wondering the same thing! The more I have thought about this, it just seems completely unreasonable to me. Honestly, it would seem such a poor choice!

[Forget-Me-Not]

Oh, and I wouldn't allow it. And I'd tell the teacher, the principal, the district fellows, all of them. And the reason I'd give is the one I posted above. And then I'd follow that up with the horrible scene in that book; a scene in which the image is definitely not one I want my 12 year old to have to conjure in his/her head.

 

:iagree:I opted not to read the book after a friend warned me about that scene, because it's not something that I want in my head.

 

I too wonder if he has his titles mixed up. I could see where it would be an easy mistake to make.

[happi duck]

Oh my goodness! That is a book that not even some adults are able to handle.

:iagree::iagree: This book was upsetting to me in many ways.

[Saille]

Could it be The Kite Rider?

 

I suppose that's possible, that it's a mix-up with the titles. That said, one thing I noticed, both in college and while I was teaching, was a disconnect between many teachers and juvenile/YA lit. Some folks who were teaching were not demanding much reading of themselves. (Others were. However, in order to change building/district reading lists, you have to have a certain level of consensus among the staff, so the readers, unless they have the autonomy to choose what's read in their own classrooms, sometimes have trouble getting reading lists revised.) When non-YA readers get to choose independently, the choices often seem to reflect what the teacher likes to read, rather than what is appropriate for the students to read. So I can totally see how a book like The Kite Runner, particularly if the Principal hadn't read it, could sneak into the curriculum under the banner of being "award winning" and "innovative".