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State/Gov't Regulation of HS: Good or Bad?


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My sister was grilling, I mean questioning me the other day about our record keeping and what we do or do not have to turn into the state. We live in New Jersey, a very UNregulated state for homeschooling. I told my sister that we don't have to do anything, except actually homeschool our children. That made the dam burst:

 

WHAT? You mean, you don't have to get them tested? You don't have to send in something? How does anyone at the Department of Education know what you are doing? How does the local school know that your children even exist? How do they know that you are doing anything? You could just be keeping them home and having them watch cartoons all day....."

 

She went on and on. When she came up for air, I simply pointed out that we have no television, so no, we could not have them home watching cartoons all day. The law is what it is, and I am thankful for it. Personally, I don't believe the government should regulate homeschooling at all. It is a private, family matter based on the time-tested principles of the God-given authority of parents and the fact that most responsible parents do want and work towards what is best for their own children, often at great cost.

 

My sister was livid, and convinced that the lack of "accountability" or "oversight" by the state means that all homeschooling in New Jersey is suspect. We have no "standards" to "measure up" to, so we must all be sitting around in pajamas all day, eating pork rinds, drinking Dr. Pepper, and watching cartoons on TVs we do not own. Sigh.

 

The next time I see her, of course, she will be ranting and raving about the terrible injustices, social depravity, and poor academic performance of the three public schools her children are attending. I take everything she says with a block of salt. I never have the energy to debate my sister. :glare: Actually, I do have the energy, but choose not to waste it there. KWIM?

 

But it left me wondering if there are any benefits to being regulated that we humble New Jersey homeschoolers "miss out" on. :D Anyone care to join in? If you live in a highly regulated state, how do you feel about it? What, if anything, do you do about it? If you live in a less-regulated state, do you feel this has been beneficial or harmful, overall, to your homeschooling journey? What do you say about the pros and cons of government regulation/oversight of homeschooling? If you live outside of the US, what is your experience with state regulation?

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But it left me wondering if there are any benefits to being regulated that we humble New Jersey homeschoolers "miss out" on. :D

 

There are no benefits to free citizens being regulated...you're not missing anything.

 

BTW your sister made me LOL...I've got a brother like that...

 

We've sunk so far from being a free nation that most of us 'reflexively' are asking, 'is this legal?' even about ordinary human activities, like raising our kids, opening a business, planting a crop, or lighting a fireplace.

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I'm from Texas and for years and years, I was thankful the state wasn't in our business. I believed that my kids are MY business. The gov't is accountable to the people, not the other way around.

 

But I'm less sure. As I posted in the recent threads, almost all homeschoolers I've met in the last several years have been non-schoolers. They don't unschool, homeschool, do school at home, anything. They have let life, selfishness, laziness, etc get in the way. Their kids went from average little kids to teenagers with 3rd and 5th grade educations.

 

I wonder if the state had ANY accountability, if parents would at least do a minimum or send the children to school. If they HAD to pass a 5th grade or 8th grade exam, would they at least make sure they have basic 3R skills to be able to do so? If they HAD to show a portfolio, would they at least do enough work to have work samples?

 

Anyway, so generally I think there should be no regulation, but....I do wonder if accountability would help all the children I've met in the last few years have SOME education.

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I wonder if the state had ANY accountability, if parents would at least do a minimum or send the children to school. If they HAD to pass a 5th grade or 8th grade exam, would they at least make sure they have basic 3R skills to be able to do so? If they HAD to show a portfolio, would they at least do enough work to have work samples?

 

 

I don't think it would make a difference. I know there are plenty of outschooled kids who graduate and still can't read well, can't do basic math even enough to balance a checkbook, etc.. Those kids were all tested and regulated, and it didn't do them any good, kwim?

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I would have answered her questions. Yes, homeschoolers can sit around all day in their pjs, eating bon-bons and watching soaps... er, cartoons. If she wants the law changed she can start a grassroots campaigner. Otherwise it is a nunya situation.

 

But that is me and that is how I am with most people who question it.

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But it left me wondering if there are any benefits to being regulated that we humble New Jersey homeschoolers "miss out" on. :D
Twelve years ago we moved from Maryland (less regulated) to Virginia (more regulated). The main difference between the two states is that Virginia requires standardized testing of homeschoolers each year (unless you claim a religious exemption). So we tested our two children. DS20 was in third grade at the time and he did HORRIBLY in spelling: 20-somethingth percentile. We had known that he was a weak speller, but we didn't realize he was so far behind his peers. He tried to shrug it off, but we stressed to him that it was important. As a result we researched different spelling programs and purchased one for him and DD17 to use for the next year. Next time around he tested in the 70th percentile and he improved every year after that.

 

All to say, yes, I see some benefit to the regulations we have in Virginia (as much as it pains me to admit that). Now with 5 kids homeschooling these test are quite expensive, but I feel it is important for us and for the kids to have this feedback each year. Sure, we could do this testing on our own, but I know that we did not do it in Maryland.

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There are no benefits to free citizens being regulated. We've sunk so far from being a free nation that most of us 'reflexively' are asking, 'is this legal?' even about ordinary human activities, like raising our kids, opening a business, planting a crop, or lighting a fireplace.

 

LOL, you are so right. A few years ago, I called our municipal offices to inquire about raising CHICKENS (just hens). I was told that we had to have "at least 5 acres of contiguous land" in order to legally raise any hens -- they are considered "farm animals."

 

I told the man on the phone, "Sir, anyone with five acres of land in central New Jersey doesn't NEED to raise chickens." He agreed, and went on reminiscing about his childhood days here (in this same town), when nearly all the neighbors had a few hens and the mothers had "egg money." Sigh.

 

So I asked him about keeping a Burmese python. "Oh," he said, "a python would be fine, it's not a farm animal." :001_huh:

 

So I asked him about rabbits. "Welllllllll," he said, "a rabbit is a pet, right?"

 

Me: "But what if you eat your pets."

 

Him (laughing): "That's between you and your, um, pet.... (pause). Rabbits are quiet animals, aren't they?" ;)

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In Ohio, you either have to test or have a statement signed by a certified teacher or other person agreed upon by superintendent/parent. If you choose the testing route though, you only are required to be in the 25th percentile. Not a terribly high standard in my opinion. I don't have a problem with what we do here in Ohio because I feel it is pretty minimal. I would not want them any more involved though.

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Having lived in regulated and non regulated states, the only benefit is that saying there are regulations (affidavits, records, set number of days, tests, evaluations, and portfolios) shuts people like her up and people are less "suspicious" of you. I find homeschooling in this regulated state to be more acceptable than in the non regulated state I lived in. But that is only these two states. I've heard it can be the opposite with other like states.

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LOL, you are so right. A few years ago, I called our municipal offices to inquire about raising CHICKENS (just hens). I was told that we had to have "at least 5 acres of contiguous land" in order to legally raise any hens -- they are considered "farm animals."

 

I told the man on the phone, "Sir, anyone with five acres of land in central New Jersey doesn't NEED to raise chickens." He agreed, and went on reminiscing about his childhood days here (in this same town), when nearly all the neighbors had a few hens and the mothers had "egg money." Sigh.

 

So I asked him about keeping a Burmese python. "Oh," he said, "a python would be fine, it's not a farm animal." :001_huh:

 

So I asked him about rabbits. "Welllllllll," he said, "a rabbit is a pet, right?"

 

Me: "But what if you eat your pets."

 

Him (laughing): "That's between you and your, um, pet.... (pause). Rabbits are quiet animals, aren't they?" ;)

It's amazing how backwards things are viewed, isn't it?

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WHAT? You mean, you don't have to get them tested? You don't have to send in something? How does anyone at the Department of Education know what you are doing? How does the local school know that your children even exist? How do they know that you are doing anything? You could just be keeping them home and having them watch cartoons all day....."

 

 

My sister was livid, and convinced that the lack of "accountability" or "oversight" by the state means that all homeschooling in New Jersey is suspect. We have no "standards" to "measure up" to, so we must all be sitting around in pajamas all day, eating pork rinds, drinking Dr. Pepper, and watching cartoons on TVs we do not own. Sigh.

 

 

 

 

:D:D I am also here in NJ!!! Brand new homeschooler, too so I get this A LOT!

 

My usual answer is " Yeah, isn't it WONDERFUL. we sat around yesterday and did nothing." That usu ally SHUTS them up.

 

but true, most people can't BELIEVE we have no requirements. I made a point today to the hairdresser that you can't expect EVERY homeschooled child to pass a random test in 3rd grade if that child's brain is not ready to grasp certain concepts. and what about special needs kids (labeled or not) that are homeschooled? would they have to pass the same test?? well, no. My point was that HS'ers teach their children (for the most part) the things that they can learn when they can learn it.

 

My 10 year old would be in ps 5th grade. hmmmm she is in 6th grade math, 2nd grade spelling, and doing core 3 from sonlight....Plus latin and apologia science. I can't figure out what grade she is in!!!

 

Robin in NJ

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I live in PA, considered one of the highest regulated states.

 

If I *wanted to*, I could easily fudge nearly all of my records. Not sure I could fudge the 3 standardized tests we're required to do between grades 3 and 12 (we're not required to register until kids are 8), but just about everything else is fairly doable.

 

My kids receive a good education because it's my priority, and my records meet state requirements because I'm honest. There's nothing magical about the regulations themselves.

 

If we lived back in NJ, I feel like they'd be more likely to get an even BETTER education, because I wouldn't have keep record keeping in the back of my mind. And I wouldn't have to constantly keep the big 180 in my mind's calendar.

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Let me get this straight, public schools are an unmitigated disaster and there are those who ask if there is benefit in having the same people who cannot manage a school try to manage how I teach my children?

 

Only the "graduate" of a public school would ask that one.

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Let me get this straight, public schools are an unmitigated disaster and there are those who ask if there is benefit in having the same people who cannot manage a school try to manage how I teach my children?

 

Only the "graduate" of a public school would ask that one.

 

:iagree: and amen!

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LOL, you are so right. A few years ago, I called our municipal offices to inquire about raising CHICKENS (just hens). I was told that we had to have "at least 5 acres of contiguous land" in order to legally raise any hens -- they are considered "farm animals."

 

I told the man on the phone, "Sir, anyone with five acres of land in central New Jersey doesn't NEED to raise chickens." He agreed, and went on reminiscing about his childhood days here (in this same town), when nearly all the neighbors had a few hens and the mothers had "egg money." Sigh.

 

So I asked him about keeping a Burmese python. "Oh," he said, "a python would be fine, it's not a farm animal." :001_huh:

 

So I asked him about rabbits. "Welllllllll," he said, "a rabbit is a pet, right?"

 

Me: "But what if you eat your pets."

 

Him (laughing): "That's between you and your, um, pet.... (pause). Rabbits are quiet animals, aren't they?" ;)

 

:lol: So funny. But I do think he sympathized with your dilemma.

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Oh - I've had so many similar conversations.......:lol:

We're in FL now (which does require an annual review of some sort), but when we started HS-ing in New Mexico, I loved the complete lack of govt. interference.

 

Good govt. is LESS govt. All the govt ever seems to do is mess things up when they get their hands on it!

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There should be NO government regulation of, or involvement in, homeschooling. Not only that, the government should get out of the education business altogether. The education of children should be the province of parents, families, churches, and communities. And I don't think that compulsory education has any place in a free society.

 

Susan in TX

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The next time I see her, of course, she will be ranting and raving about the terrible injustices, social depravity, and poor academic performance of the three public schools her children are attending. I take everything she says with a block of salt. I never have the energy to debate my sister. :glare: Actually, I do have the energy, but choose not to waste it there. KWIM?

 

I think the next time she comes over you should serve pork rinds and Dr Pepper. Just sayin'...

:lol:

 

FTR, public schools are, you know, regulated by the government, but last I heard, they don't have such a good track record.

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I'm from Texas and for years and years, I was thankful the state wasn't in our business. I believed that my kids are MY business. The gov't is accountable to the people, not the other way around.

 

But I'm less sure. As I posted in the recent threads, almost all homeschoolers I've met in the last several years have been non-schoolers. They don't unschool, homeschool, do school at home, anything. They have let life, selfishness, laziness, etc get in the way. Their kids went from average little kids to teenagers with 3rd and 5th grade educations.

 

I wonder if the state had ANY accountability, if parents would at least do a minimum or send the children to school. If they HAD to pass a 5th grade or 8th grade exam, would they at least make sure they have basic 3R skills to be able to do so? If they HAD to show a portfolio, would they at least do enough work to have work samples?

 

Anyway, so generally I think there should be no regulation, but....I do wonder if accountability would help all the children I've met in the last few years have SOME education.

:iagree:We live in a state with minimal regulations. You send in a letter of intent. In it, you agree to give your children an education equal to or better than the public school education system. This is the wording of the statute allowing homeschooling. However, that is greatly up to interpretation. There are those that believe that "anything" is better than public school.

I am noticing more and more kids that are stagnant at a 3rd to 5th grade level that are homeschoolers. They would never be able to perform academically in a middle school much less a high school.

It is distressing. It is more distressing though that those who strive to keep their children on level with their peers in public school or higher are seen as being too zealous or overly working their children.

So I do think a standardized test in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grade would be beneficial to hold those accountable that can't seem to be accountable to themselves.

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So I do think a standardized test in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grade would be beneficial to hold those accountable that can't seem to be accountable to themselves.

 

Oh, I disagree. Even though my kids have to test (and will test) in 3rd, 5th, and 8th, I fail to see the benefit. I don't teach to the test, and don't expect my younger kids to score all that "well", since they're too busy studying things other than test taking.

 

Sure, their scores will reflect that they're literate and can add, but I don't think it will demonstrate whether we're doing a "good" or "bad" job at home. We're doing a totally DIFFERENT job.

 

ETA: Ds tested in the top percentiles from 1st-5th grade in ps. Believe me, I don't hold the schools accountable for that!!!!

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Oh, I disagree. Even though my kids have to test (and will test) in 3rd, 5th, and 8th, I fail to see the benefit. I don't teach to the test, and don't expect my younger kids to score all that "well", since they're too busy studying things other than test taking.

 

Sure, their scores will reflect that they're literate and can add, but I don't think it will demonstrate whether we're doing a "good" or "bad" job at home. We're doing a totally DIFFERENT job.

 

ETA: Ds tested in the top percentiles from 1st-5th grade in ps. Believe me, I don't hold the schools accountable for that!!!!

 

I'm talking more of catching a child who can barely read and is going into high school. Those that are measuring 2 or more grade levels behind in language arts or math. I am not talking of teaching to a test, but a red flag would be put up for children that seem to have grown stagnant since home schooling or suddenly not making progress.

Maybe some parents would wake up and see that their child has not progressed in 2 years or more in math or reading.

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I think the next time she comes over you should serve pork rinds and Dr Pepper. Just sayin'...

:lol:

 

FTR, public schools are, you know, regulated by the government, but last I heard, they don't have such a good track record.

 

Miss Ellie, I'm going to have to turn this into my standard answer, worded like a question to dear sister! :D Thanks!

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I don't want government regulation of my homeschool. My current state treats us as an "unregistered private school". In my private school I have standards, pretty high ones. I don't want standardized testing and portfolio reviews.

 

I could very easily say all that and still agree that there needs to be some oversight for those that aren't really schooling. But as with any argument where do you draw the line? How do you, how does the state determine who is really schooling, unschooling, non-schooling. I truly file that under nunya. :glare:

 

My dh and I basically fell through the cracks in our huge suburban high schools. Government regulation was all over our highly rated school systems and we were simply a number or a score to them.

 

Anyone (okay almost anyone) can be parents, that's biology. Not everyone should be parents, that's morality. Is some states anyone with a child can homeschool, that's the law. Should they homeschool? Should they be regulated? Those are grey areas IMO and the state should stay out of them.

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In NC we submit a letter of intent, and are required to keep a record of imunizations, an attendance record, and the results of a yearly, nationally normed test. All of these records are kept at the school site (my kitchen file cabinet). They aren't turned in to anyone or evaluated.

 

However, I will say the testing rule has been helpful to us. We may not have chosen to test yearly, and I discovered last year that my little was actually a much stronger reader than I perceived and we had not been challenging him nearly enough. The weaknesses the testing showed, we already knew about so testing wasn't that informative.\

 

I think our level of regulation is just right.

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Let me get this straight, public schools are an unmitigated disaster and there are those who ask if there is benefit in having the same people who cannot manage a school try to manage how I teach my children?

 

Only the "graduate" of a public school would ask that one.

 

:iagree:

 

 

As my father would say "Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark."

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It is more distressing though that those who strive to keep their children on level with their peers in public school or higher are seen as being too zealous or overly working their children.

 

Yeah, this also bothers me.

 

I've lived in MO (with some regulation) and TX (with very, very minimal regulation about hsing) and I have to say it's more "comfortable" to hs in TX. Also, our neighbors in TX seem to be more used to the idea of hsing than our friends/neighbors were in MO (but, hey, that could've just been the area we lived in :glare:).

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I live in a de facto unregulated place. They passed regulations a couple years ago but didn't have any money to hire staff to enforce any of them so as far as I can tell, none of them are.

 

I think some regulation is totally legitimate. I feel like all these stories out of TX shows us that lack of regulation really can go too far. If only to ensure that it keeps the school system honest about who its supposed to be educating.

 

I feel like there should be options though. Families should be able to choose lots of different, pretty minimal routes - umbrellas, portfolio reviews, standardized tests of the parents choosing and administration... All of which should be free or at least not cost an arm and a leg. Well, I know some umbrellas have other benefits that can be worth an arm and a leg to some people, but that's different.

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Usually when I get something like this, I use a food analogy. Everyone eats. Most people do some cooking. But there are also professional cooks on many different levels.

 

Even though food is incredibly important, even vital to survival; you don't have to submit your menu plans or quarterly food reports to government officials.

 

I'm not required to use the services of a professional food preparer. And most people will admit that professional preparation in a licensed and inspected facility does not mean that the food you get will necessarily be nutritionally sound or economical.

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If I choose to put my child in a public school, that school is accountable to me and to the taxpayers for how the money is spent to educate my child. If I choose to put my child in a private school, the private school is accountable to me and to the alumni donors. If I choose to homeschool my own child, I am accountable to no one but myself and my child. Outside accountability follows the money.

 

Barb

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I don't want government regulation of my homeschool. My current state treats us as an "unregistered private school". In my private school I have standards, pretty high ones. I don't want standardized testing and portfolio reviews. I could very easily say all that and still agree that there needs to be some oversight for those that aren't really schooling. But as with any argument where do you draw the line? How do you, how does the state determine who is really schooling, unschooling, non-schooling.

 

By reading a blog with a state mandated minimum of 500 word and three photographs?

 

 

:D

Rosie

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I'm talking more of catching a child who can barely read and is going into high school. Those that are measuring 2 or more grade levels behind in language arts or math. I am not talking of teaching to a test, but a red flag would be put up for children that seem to have grown stagnant since home schooling or suddenly not making progress.

Maybe some parents would wake up and see that their child has not progressed in 2 years or more in math or reading.

 

The question that comes to my mind with this scenario is, if the student is going into 9th grade and can barely read, what then? Who has the right to intervene, and to what end? While it's possible that a low reading score on one standardized test might be useful to determine whether or not a child has been tragically under-educated, what is the solution to be? There may also be extenuating circumstances, such as the child has LDs or is dealing with a serious health issue. One test can't give a full picture.

 

Let's imagine that illiteracy is a disease. Let's suppose that, although there are obvious symptoms of this disease, there is also an "official test" for it. You could probably diagnose your child on your own -- in fact, you have probably done much to prevent this disease in the first place. But if your child takes the test, then you will know for certain whether or not he has the disease. And so will everyone else who sees the test results.

 

Who has access to your child's medical records? Who tests your child for diseases? His pediatrician, most likely. We want our child's medical records to be protected, to be kept private. Why not want the same for their educational records? I don't regularly send in my child's medical records to the state of New Jersey. Why would I send in academic test results, any more than I would send in the results of a blood lab?

 

But let's just say I did send them in to the state. And let's imagine that my child does have the disease of illiteracy. What then? Who at the state is going to have the cure for my child's disease? Does the state have any children in its care -- through state-supported schools -- that also have the disease of illiteracy? If so, then what is the state's prevention rate? What is the state's cure rate? Has the state shown that it is capable?

 

The thought of a state which hasn't proven its own competence expecting me to prove my competence just rankles me, for some reason.

 

Maybe some parents would wake up and see that their child has not progressed in 2 years or more in math or reading.

 

This is the reason some of my friends give for pulling their children out of PS -- they suddenly realized that the children hadn't progressed for a year or more.

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Usually when I get something like this, I use a food analogy. Everyone eats. Most people do some cooking. But there are also professional cooks on many different levels.

 

Even though food is incredibly important, even vital to survival; you don't have to submit your menu plans or quarterly food reports to government officials.

 

I'm not required to use the services of a professional food preparer. And most people will admit that professional preparation in a licensed and inspected facility does not mean that the food you get will necessarily be nutritionally sound or economical.

 

This is good, Sebastian. I am taking notes. :D

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So I asked him about rabbits. "Welllllllll," he said, "a rabbit is a pet, right?"

 

Me: "But what if you eat your pets."

 

Him (laughing): "That's between you and your, um, pet.... (pause). Rabbits are quiet animals, aren't they?" ;)

 

LOLOLOL...In our area you may occassionally see a sign in front of a house:

 

RABBITS FOR SALE - FOR PETS OR MEAT

 

This thread has re-energized me...It's been a very depressing summer for me with the political/economic scene and with many HS's we know falling away...we feel a bit alone lately...glad to see some sisters of liberty out there.

 

from, a NJ emigrant.:001_smile:

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LOLOLOL...In our area you may occassionally see a sign in front of a house:

 

RABBITS FOR SALE - FOR PETS OR MEAT

 

This thread has re-energized me...It's been a very depressing summer for me with the political/economic scene and with many HS's we know falling away...we feel a bit alone lately...glad to see some sisters of liberty out there.

 

from, a NJ emigrant.:001_smile:

 

Hey, Barry, are you really from here? What's it like in OH? I used to drive through on my way back and forth from college (MO). I sometimes couldn't make the whole trip in one trek so I'd stop in Huber Heights.

 

Yes, I suppose you could say I am a Sister of Liberty. :D I like that. I hope I live up to it, too.

 

Don't be depressed. :grouphug: The other families you know may be in a different season, they may have reasons you don't know about for making their choices. At the end of the day, we are accountable to ourselves for what we do and how we lead our families. Hang in there, brother. :001_smile:

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If you live in a less-regulated state, do you feel this has been beneficial or harmful, overall, to your homeschooling journey? What do you say about the pros and cons of government regulation/oversight of homeschooling? If you live outside of the US, what is your experience with state regulation?

 

I live in a less regulated state, and I do not believe for one minute that government regulation of any kind of schooling anywhere benefits anyone anywhere.

 

Case in point: the "awesome" job they're doing with the kids that ARE supposed to be meeting their "standards".

 

Non-govt. regulated private schools and home schools continue to turn out the most educated students almost regardless of the educational methods employed. Coincidence?

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I'm talking more of catching a child who can barely read and is going into high school. Those that are measuring 2 or more grade levels behind in language arts or math.

 

At our local high school, there was a sign posted on the front door a couple of weeks ago. It stated that by 2016, the majority of the sophomores would be able to read at grade level. Note that a majority is only 51%.

 

I have no idea why that sign is posted -- I'd be ashamed to put that on the front door if I were in charge of the school system.

Edited by RoughCollie
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There should be NO government regulation of, or involvement in, homeschooling. Not only that, the government should get out of the education business altogether. The education of children should be the province of parents, families, churches, and communities. And I don't think that compulsory education has any place in a free society.

 

Susan in TX

 

:iagree: but I am considered a radical Libertarian.

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There should be NO government regulation of, or involvement in, homeschooling. Not only that, the government should get out of the education business altogether. The education of children should be the province of parents, families, churches, and communities. And I don't think that compulsory education has any place in a free society.

 

I rekon that's a bit extreme. I think there ought to be a minimum, but never mind that. What I'm interested in, is what people think the results of this would be. A lot of parents panicking, for starters, and a lot of kids playing computer games while they wait for their parents to figure something out, most likely. But what then? Mass exodus from the workplace? Housing prices dropping?

 

Rosie

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I don't see that point in gov't regulation for hs. As a parent I'm supposed to feed, clothe, and generally take care of my child. Should I keep records of every meal, vitamin, medication, doctor's appt., hair cut, bath, etc. for a professional to review? Who is providing oversight? Who is regulating me??? :scared:

 

The main issue seems to be bad parents who don't want to bother sending their kids to ps using hs as a cover for their neglect. But you can't regulate someone into being a good parent and that includes education.

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I rekon that's a bit extreme. I think there ought to be a minimum, but never mind that. What I'm interested in, is what people think the results of this would be. A lot of parents panicking, for starters, and a lot of kids playing computer games while they wait for their parents to figure something out, most likely. But what then? Mass exodus from the workplace? Housing prices dropping?

 

Rosie

 

Nah...this is America! That will never happen! /sarc. off.

 

No doubt that these problem exist with HS's but they also happen at PS...and I never hear of anyone panicking...

 

I see your point...but the PS's aren't meeting their own minimums, and they want to regulate HS's too? That's my objection...if there was more integrity in government (ha!) I would be more amenable to accepting their regulation. JMHO.

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