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Prayers for our SAFETY here in Malaysia...


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Not sure what the news coverage is in the U.S. on this but it is BIG NEWS here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11223457

 

This guy is out of his mind. Not only is it a disgusting, distasteful thing to do, it puts people like us in serious danger. And during Hari Raya? It is just nuts! We just got home from a staff meeting where our employers told us to pray that someone stops this guy before he goes through with it. And if he does go through with it we are to "lay low" and not go to public places or flaunt the fact that we are americans, etc. for a while. It could get very ugly as it is already all over the news here that there are protests brewing and the police are prepping for riots. :glare:

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I have heard about it, it is very distasteful.

 

It's ironic that people tar all Christians/US citizens etc with the same brush over behaviour like this, just like many people, including the Koran burning crazies, tar all Muslims with the same brush for the actions of a few nutters.

 

I'll be thinking of you Heather, I have to admit that I had not considered the wider implications of the behaviour of that particular bunch of loons.

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The pastor is not simply stupid and ignorant but obviusly doesn't have any concern for Americans, civilians or soldiers, who he putting at real risk because of his actions.

 

It would be nice if he faced criminal charges if anyone is harmed because of this.

 

I know. Gen Petraeus was quoted saying "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems."

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I'm 2 hours away from there and the coverage is non stop. Which just feeds into this guys plans. Oh, and they keep showing graphics of stacks of Qur'ans, with the word Qur'an clearly visible on every cover, and then captioning it as the Koran. It's driving me nuts.

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It would be nice if he faced criminal charges if anyone is harmed because of this.

 

I think the proposed stunt is despicable. It's rash and rude and un-Christlike. I hope that public outrage convinces them not to go through with it.

 

But really, burning a book, ANY book, should not result in death or bodily harm to anyone. If that happens, the fault lies firmly on the side of the people doing the killing or maiming.

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But really, burning a book, ANY book, should not result in death or bodily harm to anyone. If that happens, the fault lies firmly on the side of the people doing the killing or maiming.

 

:iagree:

 

In America, we have the freedom to burn the Koran, the Holy Bible, the American flag, or anything else we wish to destroy.

 

If people are harmed because this group decides to burn the Koran, the fault will lie squarely with the people doing the harming.

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:iagree:

 

In America, we have the freedom to burn the Koran, the Holy Bible, the American flag, or anything else we wish to destroy.

 

If people are harmed because this group decides to burn the Koran, the fault will lie squarely with the people doing the harming.

 

Yes. Isn't that unfortunate. It won't do much good if (God forbid) more lives are lost, for we Americans to stand over here, hands on hips, and assign blame after the fact.

 

With rights come responsibilities, and we have the RESPONSIBILITY, especially as Christians, to act in such a way as to not bring about harm. Don't we? Or am I missing something?

 

astrid

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It's the build up and media attention that makes this a problem.

 

If this guy wanted to burn a Koran, burn it. Done. Nobody would even know. But, it's been built-up, turned into a circus, with international media attention.

 

And yes, one idiot will fire up the next.

 

If one lives in a place where it's not of the ilk, "I disagree but I respect your rights", then one is in real danger when he/she is on the "other" side.

 

:grouphug: to all who may be in harm's way.

Edited by nono
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Yes. Isn't that unfortunate. It won't do much good if (God forbid) more lives are lost, for we Americans to stand over here, hands on hips, and assign blame after the fact.

 

With rights come responsibilities, and we have the RESPONSIBILITY, especially as Christians, to act in such a way as to not bring about harm. Don't we? Or am I missing something?

 

astrid

 

Are you saying you're a Christian, Astrid?

 

Here's my viewpoint: I'm weary of a group of lunatics holding the world hostage. They have no belief in personal freedoms, and the rest of us are supposed to bow down and worship their beliefs and opinions or they're going to bring harm to us, again and again. They're trying to beat us into submission using terroristic bullying, and the whole world is running scared. And all the politically correct talk is how we're not supposed to do anything to agitate them.

 

Why aren't people standing up and decrying the acts they are threatening?

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Oh, I agree. I don't see anyone on the board saying that they SHOULD burn the Korans.

 

But I also don't think that they should be held legally responsible for deaths that may result.

 

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with what I bolded. I have the freedom to have an alcoholic beverage, and the freedom to drink as much of that beverage as I want to, but if my actions caused the death of another individual I would be held responsible. If I had those alcoholic beverage in a bar and was allowed to leave that bar obviously drunk, the bartender who served me those drinks could be held responsible. Just because we live in a country of freedoms where we have the "right" to burn any book or flag we want, doesn't mean that we have no responsibility for the fall-out from our actions.

 

I think that the possible fall-out from this man's (and his followers) actions should be a matter of National Security and I'm wondering WHY this has not been addressed by our government. :confused: Yes, General Petraeus has gone on the record stating that this man is putting American soldiers at risk, but why is that all that's been done? We have citizens of our country world wide, civilians and military, and the actions of this group will be putting them all in danger.

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Are you saying you're a Christian, Astrid?

 

Here's my viewpoint: I'm weary of a group of lunatics holding the world hostage. They have no belief in personal freedoms, and the rest of us are supposed to bow down and worship their beliefs and opinions or they're going to bring harm to us, again and again. They're trying to beat us into submission using terroristic bullying, and the whole world is running scared. And all the politically correct talk is how we're not supposed to do anything to agitate them.

 

Why aren't people standing up and decrying the acts they are threatening?

 

:iagree: I also fail to see how this is so different than the Muslims trying to build a mosque on Ground Zero. Both groups are trying to make a statement. I think it's sad that people get so riled up about someone burning Korans, but if someone wanted to light a stack of Bibles on fire most of the world would be just fine with that. No outrage or media attention. Sad really how messed up people's thinking is.

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I think that the possible fall-out from this man's (and his followers) actions should be a matter of National Security and I'm wondering WHY this has not been addressed by our government. :confused: Yes, General Petraeus has gone on the record stating that this man is putting American soldiers at risk, but why is that all that's been done? We have citizens of our country world wide, civilians and military, and the actions of this group will be putting them all in danger.

 

Do we really want to set a precedent for the government restricting free speech in the interest of national security? (Outside of being unable to disclose classified information?)

 

Free speech is a cornerstone of Western civilization. We shouldn't let terrorists take it away from us.

 

(I'm still forming my opinion on this, and I enjoy reading your viewpoint. And my prayers are with those all around the world who are threatened by terrorism.)

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I'm sorry but I disagree with what I bolded. I have the freedom to have an alcoholic beverage, and the freedom to drink as much of that beverage as I want to, but if my actions caused the death of another individual I would be held responsible. If I had those alcoholic beverage in a bar and was allowed to leave that bar obviously drunk, the bartender who served me those drinks could be held responsible. Just because we live in a country of freedoms where we have the "right" to burn any book or flag we want, doesn't mean that we have no responsibility for the fall-out from our actions.

 

I think that the possible fall-out from this man's (and his followers) actions should be a matter of National Security and I'm wondering WHY this has not been addressed by our government. :confused: Yes, General Petraeus has gone on the record stating that this man is putting American soldiers at risk, but why is that all that's been done? We have citizens of our country world wide, civilians and military, and the actions of this group will be putting them all in danger.

 

You can't kill someone by drinking. :confused:

 

You can kill someone by smashing into him while driving a car while drunk --- which is illegal.

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I think it's sad that people get so riled up about someone burning Korans, but if someone wanted to light a stack of Bibles on fire most of the world would be just fine with that. No outrage or media attention. Sad really how messed up people's thinking is.

 

I would be just as upset if someone wanted to burn a stack of Bibles.

 

I think that burning the Holy Book for any group is incredibly ignorant and disrespectful. Especially when the actions that are supposedly being protested against are only performed by a small minority of the religion. ESPECIALLY when it may put others at risk, including soldiers and civilians. We can't control what others do, but we can control our own actions that may incite others.

 

I have been floored lately, by the various conversations held with family/friends about this and the building of a Mosque in NYC. I didn't realize how... intolerant some of the people around me are. It makes me very sad.

(I'm not referring to anyone on this board... it is your right to think differently from me, but some of the people I've spoken to IRL are just flat out intolerant towards others.)

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Praying for you and your family Heather! Please keep us posted. Our family will also pray that this pastor comes to his senses. WWJD....He didn't go around burning Latin or Greek religious books in order to start a frenzy!!!

 

Sheesh...it is so hard when your faith ends up being represented by a loon on the news instead of the people really living their faith properly.

 

We will add you to our family prayer journal.

 

Faith

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Do we really want to set a precedent for the government restricting free speech in the interest of national security? (Outside of being unable to disclose classified information?)

 

Free speech is a cornerstone of Western civilization. We shouldn't let terrorists take it away from us.

 

 

I'm just wondering if burning a book counts as 'speech'.

 

Laura

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I'm sorry but I disagree with what I bolded. I have the freedom to have an alcoholic beverage, and the freedom to drink as much of that beverage as I want to, but if my actions caused the death of another individual I would be held responsible. If I had those alcoholic beverage in a bar and was allowed to leave that bar obviously drunk, the bartender who served me those drinks could be held responsible. Just because we live in a country of freedoms where we have the "right" to burn any book or flag we want, doesn't mean that we have no responsibility for the fall-out from our actions.

 

 

This has no bearing on what we're discussing.

 

A terrorist who is ticked off by something that happens half way around the world has no justification for murdering people because of his anger. Period. And it's not someone else's fault that he did it.

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I would be just as upset if someone wanted to burn a stack of Bibles.

 

I think that burning the Holy Book for any group is incredibly ignorant and disrespectful. Especially when the actions that are supposedly being protested against are only performed by a small minority of the religion. ESPECIALLY when it may put others at risk, including soldiers and civilians. We can't control what others do, but we can control our own actions that may incite others.

 

I have been floored lately, by the various conversations held with family/friends about this and the building of a Mosque in NYC. I didn't realize how... intolerant some of the people around me are. It makes me very sad.

(I'm not referring to anyone on this board... it is your right to think differently from me, but some of the people I've spoken to IRL are just flat out intolerant towards others.)

 

I am Roman Catholic and I can honestly say that I only have pity for those who try to desecrate things of religious significance. I won't even list all the things that have been done to a crucifix and to pictures of the Virgin Mary. I wish they didn't do it, but it doesn't impact my faith.

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WWJD....He didn't go around burning Latin or Greek religious books in order to start a frenzy!!!

 

 

Faith

 

No, but Jesus did whip the money-changers from the temple, where they were perverting God. He also called the Pharisees white-washed tombs and sons of Satan. Not "be nice and get along" PC actions.

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No, but Jesus did whip the money-changers from the temple, where they were perverting God. He also called the Pharisees white-washed tombs and sons of Satan. Not "be nice and get along" PC actions.

 

He was cleaning up His own house...

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This has no bearing on what we're discussing.

 

A terrorist who is ticked off by something that happens half way around the world has no justification for murdering people because of his anger. Period. And it's not someone else's fault that he did it.

 

But, if you stick your finger into a hornets nest, you shouldn't be surprised at the outcome...

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But, if you stick your finger into a hornets nest, you shouldn't be surprised at the outcome...

 

So, if a wife spends a little more money than her husband wants her to one week, knowing that he will get angry, it's OK if he knocks her around a little or if he takes his anger out on their child? And it's not his fault that he does that?

 

That would seem to follow this line of thinking.

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I am so mad at the media I could just spit. There have always been random idiots--it used to be that only a dozen people would pay any attention to them. But in the age of the 24 hour news cycle, this guy gets international top-headline coverage.

 

I expect the Koran burning to result in American deaths. This guy will have some responsibility for that, morally if not legally. But a larger moral responsibility will belong to the press.

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Not sure what the news coverage is in the U.S. on this but it is BIG NEWS here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11223457

 

This guy is out of his mind. Not only is it a disgusting, distasteful thing to do, it puts people like us in serious danger. And during Hari Raya? It is just nuts! We just got home from a staff meeting where our employers told us to pray that someone stops this guy before he goes through with it. And if he does go through with it we are to "lay low" and not go to public places or flaunt the fact that we are americans, etc. for a while. It could get very ugly as it is already all over the news here that there are protests brewing and the police are prepping for riots. :glare:

 

I'll be praying for your safety. Sometimes people don't understand or even care the repercussions of their action for those of us living and working in other countries. They just want to make a point.

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Are you saying you're a Christian, Astrid?

 

 

 

Is it so hard for you to believe? And why does it matter?

 

I am a Christian. I was raised a Christian. But more and more, I'm thinking that teachings I was brought up with in the Christian faith are not what Christianity is anymore.

 

astrid

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So, if a wife spends a little more money than her husband wants her to one week, knowing that he will get angry, it's OK if he knocks her around a little or if he takes his anger out on their child? And it's not his fault that he does that?

 

That would seem to follow this line of thinking.

 

Calling the terrorists "hornets" is hardly denying culpability.

 

It's one thing to stick your own hand into the nest; it's another thing to shoot it w/ a water gun from the other side of the world while other people are standing near the nest.

 

If he didn't know what the outcome would be, if he hadn't been warned, it would be different. He's been told, though, that this will end up costing American lives--not that that's ok, but that that's the nature of the enemy--& he doesn't care. He's not enlisting w/ the troops who will be targeted, he's hiding behind their courage.

 

This is the equivalent of shouting "FIRE" in a crowded building. It's a *stunt* that will cost lives. If "freedom of speech" is truly & completely limitless, it's not freedom; the powerful will use the "right" to bully the weak.

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I'm just wondering if burning a book counts as 'speech'.

 

Laura

 

Burning a flag counts as speech. So yes, I expect burning a book does as well.

 

And yeah, I was thinking this as well "If someone was burning the Bible, no one would be in fear of their lives. It probably would not even make the news."

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Here's my viewpoint: I'm weary of a group of lunatics holding the world hostage. They have no belief in personal freedoms, and the rest of us are supposed to bow down and worship their beliefs and opinions or they're going to bring harm to us, again and again. They're trying to beat us into submission using terroristic bullying, and the whole world is running scared. And all the politically correct talk is how we're not supposed to do anything to agitate them.

 

Why aren't people standing up and decrying the acts they are threatening?

 

Not all Muslims are Al Qaeda or terrorists. Why is this "pastor" targeting Islam? Why not burn a picture of Bin Laden or some other Al Qaeda leader instead? It's sort of like blaming ALL Catholics for the few Catholic priests who have done bad things.

 

I don't know...I'm always telling my kids not to "stoop to their level" but this guy doesn't seem to have a problem with that. He's not setting a very good example for anyone.

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Well, it is a biggie to Muslims, but no more than sticking the Quran in the toilet as was done by the people at Guatanamo.

 

As for the supposedly overheated reaction of Muslims across the world, then it is akin to the reaction to Salman Rushdie's book 25 years ago; Muslim leaders were telling their followers/listeners to ignore him and the book would go away on its own. Instead Muslim "fanatics"/hysterics over-reacted and caused everyone to go read the book. Talk about reverse psychology in action!

 

To me, then it would seem logic to arrest the guy and hold him detained untill Sunday at least. He has threatened publicly to do an act that would cause in consequences and be globally misunderstood as sanctioned by our US government. Detain him on grounds of disrespecting others' religion etc., whatever statute that is, and let's keep everyone safe. And I mean this in the sense that irrational and tempered people are going to react.

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