kalanamak Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Kiddo is mathy, but "pure" math. I have been carefully going over story problems with manipulatives, drawings, and acting them out for 3 bloody years. Today I asked kiddo how he thought we should resolve this, he said, with his face calm and sincere "I'm really trying, but :blink:we might have to do math an hour a day". We are doing 120 hours a year, and he is up to stuff on math facts, clocks, money, measurement, fractions (he took to these like a duck to water). Any secrets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 No magical secrets here, as we're not quite up to that. But could I please hijack and ask a related question, hopefully experienced people might be kind enough to respond to both? Hope you don't mind. In the math program we're following, there is a bit about "thinking mathematically"; this involves teaching kids the acronym QISWAC, for "Question - Information - Strategy - Working out - Answer in a sentence - Check". They are supposed to draw a table and put the question into that format. So to me, this seems like a massive waste of time, making a simple process into a complicated one. As a kid, I never understood the point of word/story problems, as they were just the same as pure number ones to me. It was only in the last few years as I've read widely about education, that I found out that some kids find these different/difficult. Can anyone tell me please is this a standard technique that most kids are taught these days (I never learned it at school)? Is it likely to be any use if the kiddo is not having difficulty with the problems, eg later on? I'm thinking of just leaving it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 In the math program we're following, there is a bit about "thinking mathematically"; this involves teaching kids the acronym QISWAC, for "Question - Information - Strategy - Working out - Answer in a sentence - Check". They are supposed to draw a table and put the question into that format. So to me, this seems like a massive waste of time, making a simple process into a complicated one. I think it would be horribly boring to teach, but I'm ready for a new perspective on them. I'm not doing it from curriculum, but common sensically asking him to reread the question more slowly, isolate the facts we have, name the unknown (the fact we are missing), and then ask "how will you get there?" If he doesn't get it right away, I start with hints, but I swear he is out to lunch right after the first reading. He has gotten so accustomed to my hints, I suspect, that he glazes over, and it becomes like pulling teeth. He doesn't do this with anything else, so I need a new approach. Help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncmom2dawters Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 from Diane Craft's web site http://dianecraft.org/tutor4.htm#3 Instead of doing a few word problems every day, get a booklet that only contains word problems. Do them together, with you, the teacher/parent, doing most of the work, modeling for your child how to do it. Remember that modeling is the most powerful way of teaching. We model it so many times that the child literally pulls the pencil out of our hand to do it him or herself. We can be assured that he or she knows it by that time. Don’t quiz until the child has firmly developed the technique: only quiz when you know the grade will be an A+. I am using ... It`s Elementary! http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?series=2411M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 We have been doing CWP 1, and I relate. We do them with a dry erase marker in hand. Sometimes ds will blurt out the answer before I finish reading the problem....and sometimes we really have to draw out the problem. Sometimes he knows the answer, but can't tell me how he got it. The Diane Craft quote affirms my methods LOL. I hoped that by starting with easypeasy math (the actual math of it is a full level behind), that the skill of dissecting a word problem would be easier. We are still waiting for the results to come in...;) :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 We are just now beginning to work on word problems that are a bit more complicated. I have my son underline the numbers whether they are the actual symbol or the word for the number. Then he circles the part of the question that describes what it is the question wants, and writes the operation needed above it. For example; + Mr. Jones sold 32 apples on Wednesday and 46 on Tuesday. (How many) apples did Mr. Jones sell? I also had to teach him to look for the words that could mean adding, subtracting, inequalities, and estimation but didn't come right out and state it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Some kids need many, many examples before trying word problems on their own. First, make sure the child is consistently able to perform the arithmetic required to solve the problem. For example, don't do a problem requiring division of fractions if the child is still shaky with division of fractions. Wait until he/she is solid. Then, try doing 4 or 5 step-by-step example problems. Make up problems very similar to the problem he/she will have to do. Just let your child watch and ask questions. Explain each step and demonstrate exactly how to show the work on paper. Then do 1 or 2 (or more) together. Provide as much help, support, and encouragement as it takes! Then, finally, have your child try that type of problem independently. In my tutoring, I have many students who struggle with story problems. I have found that taking the time to do many, many examples usually helps tremendously. The key seems to be plenty of time with no pressure, and freedom to make mistakes, ask questions, and see as many examples as it takes for the child to 'get it.' Try to throw out the expectation of getting a certain number of problems done in a day and to focus on really understanding how to solve a certain kind problem. It takes some kids a lot longer than their mothers would like. ;) I have one like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 I tend to rephrase the problem in terms the child will understand readily. . . Generally things like "you and your two sisters are sharing a box of candies. There are 54 candies in the box. . ." or "You had 40 pieces of gum. You left the gum pack unsupervised with your thieving brother, Nathan. When you came back, only 12 pieces were left!. . ." My kids always can do math that involves injustice/equity among siblings. I think they are born with this abillity. I would guess they could have done it in the womb, lol. So, I tend to rephrase word problems in kid-friendly terms and do a couple in the kid-friendly terms before walking them back to the assigned problem and seeing how it is parallel. This has always worked well for us, but of course every child has their own way of learning. (Though I doubt there are many who can't do the. . . 'how much candy do I get' or 'how much did he steal from me' math problems. . .) HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.m Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 I tend to rephrase the problem in terms the child will understand readily. . . Generally things like "you and your two sisters are sharing a box of candies. There are 54 candies in the box. . ." or "You had 40 pieces of gum. You left the gum pack unsupervised with your thieving brother, Nathan. When you came back, only 12 pieces were left!. . ." My kids always can do math that involves injustice/equity among siblings. I think they are born with this abillity. I would guess they could have done it in the womb, lol. So, I tend to rephrase word problems in kid-friendly terms and do a couple in the kid-friendly terms before walking them back to the assigned problem and seeing how it is parallel. This has always worked well for us, but of course every child has their own way of learning. (Though I doubt there are many who can't do the. . . 'how much candy do I get' or 'how much did he steal from me' math problems. . .) HTH :iagree: I tell my kids to substitute in names they know especially sibblings! :lol: And then I make them look for the story problem clue and underline it. Usually rereading it helps them figure it out. http://webs.rps205.com/curriculum/msmath/files/793187A314A849BA855C3CC486890A8C.pdf for a list of the clues children should look for in story problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 I always start writing down 'what we know' in a simple way on the right hand side of the page in a column, usually mathematically. Then I skip a line and write down 'what we want to find out'. Then we do the 'figuring out' in parallel on the left side of the same page. This process helps to organize the information and decide which parts to use. It also stops the 'quick, let's start figuring this out and then get very bogged down' syndrome that was an affliction in our house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Have you tried Singapore's bar graph method? http://www.singaporemath.com/Mathematics_s/1.htm I found "The Model Method" helpful, I have not read the other book. My daughter who is more verbally advanced than in math, is better at word problems than regular math! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBugsMom Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 With my boys (3 of them) I noticed a blank stare when story problems were read, so I changed the subjects to things they were into. It is amazing how using the word COOKIE makes the word problem understandable. They could visualize cookies but not flowers (or whatever the problem was about) I even used lego blocks as the subject for them to visualize and had good results...but cookies worked better. Guess it's true what they say about getting a man through his stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 With my boys (3 of them) I noticed a blank stare when story problems were read, so I changed the subjects to things they were into. It is amazing how using the word COOKIE makes the word problem understandable. They could visualize cookies but not flowers (or whatever the problem was about) I even used lego blocks as the subject for them to visualize and had good results...but cookies worked better. Guess it's true what they say about getting a man through his stomach. LOL! That reminds me, I tutored a 4th grader who was having trouble with fractions and decimals and percent. She was very confused until I started relating everything to money and things she might want to buy!! 1/4 confusing. 25c, 1/4 of a dollar, easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 No magical secrets here, as we're not quite up to that. But could I please hijack and ask a related question, hopefully experienced people might be kind enough to respond to both? Hope you don't mind. In the math program we're following, there is a bit about "thinking mathematically"; this involves teaching kids the acronym QISWAC, for "Question - Information - Strategy - Working out - Answer in a sentence - Check". They are supposed to draw a table and put the question into that format. So to me, this seems like a massive waste of time, making a simple process into a complicated one. As a kid, I never understood the point of word/story problems, as they were just the same as pure number ones to me. It was only in the last few years as I've read widely about education, that I found out that some kids find these different/difficult. Can anyone tell me please is this a standard technique that most kids are taught these days (I never learned it at school)? Is it likely to be any use if the kiddo is not having difficulty with the problems, eg later on? I'm thinking of just leaving it out. They're teaching a metacognition strategy. Some people need to be taught these strategies and some don't. Once the strategy becomes automatic, the student will be able to tell their brain to answer the questions without having to write the chart down. It's a method to train the brain to answer future problems. It's similar to teaching SPQ3R as a method for active reading. For a child that can intuitively answer these questions, it is a bit of a waste of time, but for a child who needs to learn what to think while trying to work out a story problem, it will be a lifesaver. Luckily, we homeschool, so we will know whether our child needs this or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaMa2005 Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 from Diane Craft's web sitehttp://dianecraft.org/tutor4.htm#3 I am using ... It`s Elementary! http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?series=2411M mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaMa2005 Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 I agree with getting separate books for just word problems. We are using Singapore's 70 Must Know Word Problems as well as Daily Word Problems by Evan-Moor. I do feel like I do most of the work, but some concepts are slowly cementing themselves. I remember I had a horrible time with word problems in school and am being very pro-active so this doesn't happen to DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 With my boys (3 of them) I noticed a blank stare when story problems were read, so I changed the subjects to things they were into. It is amazing how using the word COOKIE makes the word problem understandable. They could visualize cookies but not flowers (or whatever the problem was about) I even used lego blocks as the subject for them to visualize and had good results...but cookies worked better. Guess it's true what they say about getting a man through his stomach. I've had the same luck with using the word "lego" in place of whatever the item is in the actual problem. Then, somehow, it just all makes sense. LOL! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieD Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 Since you're using Singapore Math, how did he do making up math stories from the pictures in the earlier books? Can he look at a simple equation and make up a story for it? Sometimes it's easier to go abstract to concrete than concrete to abstract. Julie D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 14, 2010 Author Share Posted September 14, 2010 I always start writing down 'what we know' in a simple way on the right hand side of the page in a column, usually mathematically. This rings my bells, but it remains to be seen if it rings kiddo's bells. We are doing the Singapore bar graph method, but I do the drawing or we would be there ALL day, in his attempts to get the bars perfect. I like the underlining hint words and circling numbers. Kiddo starts to yawn and fidget if I do all the writing. Okay, I'll make my own problems. The Carman-Dellarosa seems pricey for 70 problems, and I'm sure I can make up some with kiddo's fav characters in them. Right now he is hoping his wife "gives birth to a boy" so he can name him Troy. Tomorrow, Troy goes crabbing and oystering. I'm also going to try putting examples of bar graph for each of the 4 functions on some card stock and asking him which one he thinks will help this question, so not every single question starts with a blank piece of scratch paper. Thanks all. I think we need more time. Math is an amazing subject: kiddo can look at some content and just seem to intuit what to do, and others, I am stunned at the "simple" things I'm still hacking at 3 years on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jessica* Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 I found a couple of links to word problem activities on the Math Playground site that I plan to start using with Nik. Thinking Blocks Part-Whole 1 Thinking Blocks Let's Compare - Compare Two Amounts (One Step) Thinking Blocks Time for a Change (Two Steps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 Math is an amazing subject: kiddo can look at some content and just seem to intuit what to do, and others, I am stunned at the "simple" things I'm still hacking at 3 years on. Yes, I've found that, too! Things about fractions that seemed hard to me, my daughter picked up instantly. The very next lesson, still about fractions but easy to me, I told her, "Oh, this is really easy," she struggled and we ended up working on it for 2 days, plus she cried because she thought it would be easy and it wasn't. After that experience, I never say anything is going to be easy. (And, when she complained and asked why I would say that something so hard was easy, I said, "I'm sorry, it's been a long time since I learned that, I must have forgotten how hard it was to learn.") I also would have put that lesson in with the other fraction one if I had been designing it, but obviously they knew what they were doing when they separated it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 We are still on fairly easy story problems, but I have my kids write down the numbers as I read them, then see how they fit into a parts-to-whole circle. My son, in particular, has a lot of trouble deciding how to use the numbers he is given. Putting them into a parts-to-whole circle makes it easier for him to visualize how the numbers relate to one another. I'm also teaching him about disregarding unimportant information. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 I use the Singapore Challenging Word Problems books a level behind and we do the problems together. We use the Singapore model method whenever possible. When he gets stuck, I try to ask leading questions first and if he is still stuck, I will make a diagram for him. At this point he usually sees how to do the problem. I treat this as a process and don't get stressed out if he has trouble; it just gives us more to talk about. I also allow him to use a calculator. This makes it fun for him and lets us focus on problem solving skills rather than basic arithmetic. Just the other day he told me that he loves word problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 I take the key words given by Purple Math, and write them on a 3x5 card for them to reference as needed. Given I use Singapore they all are also used to drawing bar diagrams as needed, and if they don't the first time I will go back and make them. :D Though Singapore is great at showing the diagrams long enough that it was a fairly natural transition for all my kids, so far. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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