Your turn to critique...

[BMW]

I am having trouble with two of the boys... they get in trouble all the time... they take up a lot of time because of getting into trouble and it seems SO unfair to me that the sons who obey and do what is right get less attention that those who are in trouble...

 

Here is how this past week went:

 

Boy 1 was sent out of the classroom by the sub. because of distracting the class repeatedly, came back in and continued to be defiant, was given 4 hours detention (to be served during lunches and before school). The next day was sent out of class for arguing with the teacher. The next day I got a call from another teacher stating that he will not cooperate, will not be quiet, will not behave... and could we please do something about it at home. Boy 1 is also on the wrestling team... which I think is not appropriate because he is obviously not behaving... but his dad thinks it is a great outlet for him. When I took his video games away for his behavior, he insisted that he did nothing wrong and when I told him what the teachers had said he told ME to "shut up".

 

Boy 2 did all his homework. He was pleasant. He has done his chores. He has not been in any trouble whatsoever. He does not want to do wrestling.

 

Boy 3 lied to the vice principal about another student, got caught in the lie and was given 4 hour detention. He filled in a reading log falsely and signed my name to it. He wrote a book report on a movie that we recently watched and it had nothing to do with the book that he didn't read, but pretended it was the same... He then did not turn in a reading log or do spelling for 2 weeks and is getting zeros on classwork. Teacher thought about giving him another 4 hour detention, but didn't. He does wrestling, but does not take it seriously, he goes for the social time.

 

Boy 4 has been very well behaved. He has done all his schoolwork.

 

I am so frustrated because I don't know what to do for consequences anymore... I've put them on restriction. I've taken video games away. I've made them stay in their rooms. But, they continue to misbehave every single day. I am very tired of it.

 

Just today, while I was at work boy 3 was awful. He lied to me when I got home. Boy 1 actually understands that his behavior at home has to be better and he is behaving wonderfully at home... he just will not behave at school.

 

I told boy 1 and 3 that from now on, because they keep taking so much of my time to deal with their bad behavior, that when they get into trouble I am going to do something special for the other two boys who are not getting so much attention.

 

Grrr.

 

Any advice? What do you think? I am about ready to end all social life for these two boys... forever a very long time...

[crowscreek]

I don't have much advice...I just wanted to offer :grouphug:.

 

My older 2 started at PS and they just didn't thrive. My 9yo had the same experiences you described (always in "trouble", principal visits, etc due to being chatty). My 6yo was in a different situation as he was being bullied by the kindergarten TEACHER for being slow to write, trace, color, copy. He was made out to be an "example" in front of the other kids, a couple of which live on our road. They would call him "retarded" in my yard (!!) and I just slap had enough. I am a certified, degree-holding Elementary teacher by trade and my child is 100% NOT slow...he is a leftie and stubborn. :) :)

Anyhoo, all 4 of my kiddos are homeschooling and they are thriving.

 

I agree that homeschooling is NOT for everyone and should not be a forced topic. I just wanted to give you hope that with prayer/meditation/deep thought (whichever you feel in tune with) will guide you towards the right choice.

 

I also wanted to offer this up while I am on the subject: have you heard of the message board @ RaisingGodlyTomatoes? I don't know if this is something you may be interested in or not...just wanted to offer that as another resource for gentle, loving discipline advice.

 

:) :)

Blessings,

Emily

 

PS: IMHO, the social restrictions MAY lead to more resentment. Is there anything going on at home that may be a stress source for them? It is absolutely none of MY business, I was just wondering if that could be causing some acting out.

I am also not saying that they should be allowed to continue to do wrestling, etc. :001_huh: I hope someone else will chime in with better advice for you. :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Bee,

 

Is boy 1's dad your ex or your dh? If he is your dh's son, could you have his dad be point at school and for discipline? Perhaps if he heard what problems the teachers are having first hand, he might be more inclined to see how serious it is?

 

Same questions and suggestions for boy 3.

 

I don't think that boy 2 should have to be in wrestling if he doesn't like it. Perhaps another sport?

 

If boys 2 and 4 behave I would give them special time with either you or your dh (depending on which would be extra special to them). And depending of course on whether your dh would be open to this. (Nothing like a stranger on the WTM board signing him up for stuff, right?)

[mrs.m]

I don't agree with that consequence. Boys 2 & 4 have nothing to do with this and the other boys shouldn't be compared to them. They will resent their "perfect" brothers and continue to act out. Find a way to love on the other boys without making a big deal of it to the ones who are having problems.

 

My opinion is take everything fun away from them (toys, video games, outings with friends, etc.) and let them earn it back for with good behaviour and being respectful.

 

But it's really hard to give proper and complete "advice" over a message board. Something is going on with these boys and I think you need to get down to the bottom of it. Perhaps some family counseling would be helpful?

[Pamela H in Texas]

What a mess. I'm sorry they are being so difficult at school. It sounds as if the consequences are not getting through to them. A couple things may be needed.

 

First, prevention. Sometimes coaching them in the morning can make huge changes in how the day goes. Additionally, you might consider wearing them out some in the morning. They may need a whole lot more physical release than they are getting, especially with middle school requiring things like sitting in your seat. Chores, exercise, etc may help considerably. All sorts of people do a morning run, garden a little, etc before work. No reason kids can't before school.

 

Second, working with the school. I'm a bit concerned about the teachers just because though middle school is crazy, good teachers CAN control even challenging kids the great majority of the time. And teachers can CHOOSE to be good teachers! It may take sitting down with them and working together on a discipline plan that will work. They are required to do interventions in the classroom to make things work so I'd go that route. It may take YOU learning a few classroom tricks to help the teachers out. Not easy, but you might try various boards with IDEA/IEP suggestions or check out a few teaching books.

 

Additionally, hubby might speak to the coach (btw, I'm not sure why the teacher hasn't done this already as it's a common tactic for middle school teachers). Coaches have ways to get through to preteen/young teen boys :)

 

Lastly, at home...Honestly, the consequences seem weak. If my boy behaved like that, he'd be writing letters of apology, contacting teachers otherwise, doing extra work for them to make up for the trouble, coming up with his own ways to help himself do better in school, etc. I'd be wearing him out because he obviously has too much pent up energy that isn't being directed well. I'd also get him thinking more about other people in various ways (tutoring a weaker student, Habitat for Humanity, etc). Of course, they would be too busy to play video games, with friends, etc on days they had any real trouble.

 

Is this their first time in school? I'm not big on rewards for doing what you should be doing otherwise, but many times, reward systems can encourage people to change bad habits. So it might be that when you work with the teachers, they send home a daily message about how the kids do. Maybe a form where each teacher circles 0-5 and signs. You sign daily to keep up with it and discipline appropriately. Then at the end of the week, there is a reward for getting in the right range. You may have a longer term reward be something big they can join you and the other boys doing. You should only need to do this short term.

 

As for the other kiddos...well, fact is that kids that are going through a spell of yuck do get more attention, at least for a time. Make sure you *are* spending time with them each day, of course; but for a time, until the others adjust to school, you may well need to give unequal time. IME, it all works out in time as long as you're mindful of it.

 

I would definitely sit down with them and figure out what is going on and see if they have any ideas on a fix. They are plenty old enough to learn some insight and self-discipline and the information will help you know exactly what directions to go.

 

Hope this helps a little,

Edited September 5, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Laura Corin]

Can you work out why they are doing these things? Attention? Something else? I would try to work that out before deciding how to progress.

 

Laura

[Anne Rittenhouse]

Your not going to like this,

 

Entire family - no video games, TV, or computer time unless it is directly tied to school work. This is just standard practice for school time. All the boys need outdoor time either in chores or play with whatever free time they have.

 

Boy 1: off the team for the season, hard manual labor for sassing you back under the direct supervision of his father (mine would be splitting wood, or digging ditches) and I would be at school sitting in a chair just outside the classroom door to ensure proper behavior in school. (with a large novel) There is no need to be present in the classroom, just be at school. Escort him personally to his locker, his gym class and his lunch period. One day of that with the threat that another toe out of line will result in another all day visit from you will fix his wagon right. Social pressure will solve his behavior quickly.

 

boy 2 - change sports, see boy 4

 

boy 3 - off the team for the season, all academic work will be completed to your and his teacher's satisfaction even if he recieved zero grades. Detention for lying and academic dishonesty. School hearing and sanctions for his actions. Special parental attention for homework for the remainder of the term. (Check it every night and have open communications with the teacher. Should ANYTHING be out line with this child an email notification to you takes place.

 

boy 4 - tell him how hard he's worked, that he's doing a great job.

 

Do not reward 2 and 4 for 1 and 3, it will backfire in the end.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

I told boy 1 and 3 that from now on, because they keep taking so much of my time to deal with their bad behavior, that when they get into trouble I am going to do something special for the other two boys who are not getting so much attention.

 

 

Any advice? What do you think? I am about ready to end all social life for these two boys... forever a very long time...

 

My m-i-l regularly rewarded my dh (Child #11) in his teens to show her younger son (child #12) what rewards happen when someone is "good". It ruined the relationship between my dh and his brother. Today they are 43 and 45 years old and my b-i-l STILL tries to provoke my dh to prove that he's not "good". My dh has 9 living siblings and the relationship with this brother is the only one that is antagonistic. We can still get together at family events, but this younger brother is always angry at dh under the surface.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Leanna,

 

That is sad. I do agree though that it's a bad idea. It seems like it would make sense, but....

 

Instead, most discipline needs to be positive towards everyone. Though some of my post could look punitive to some people, it doesn't have to be done in an ugly way. Everything can be kept quite positive.

[BMW]

Thanks...

 

Boy 1 has deep rooted character issues... he does not like to work... period. He was raised that way. Life is fun and no work. His mom was sick with cancer and died when he was 10. I know that evokes a lot of sympathy. He has been given plenty of sympathy. But, life isn't going to cater to him! I am truly concerned about his future because he wont work unless it is fun and games. He is pleasant with me at home right now because I took away him going to the boat (his dad's boat, which is a weekly treat) for September for telling me to shut up. He is nice for me because he wants me to let him go. At school, he just wont obey the teachers. It's mostly talking, making noises, arguing. He really believes since he was raised without consequences that he will just always get warnings. That's why he was angry that he got in trouble this week... he literally said, "But last year the teacher gave me at least 20 warnings!"

 

Boy 3 just wants the attention. And he is quite mischievous. He can be sweet as anything, then turn on a dime. His immaturity and stubbornness sometimes is ridiculous.

 

So, I wont make it obvious that I will reward the other boys when these boys get into trouble... but, yesterday it worked out nicely: dh had a boat trip for an event in a nearby town that was really fun. Because two boys were in trouble, he took one of the other boys and a sister for the fun event. Nothing was really broadcast about it... and dh was very sad that the other 2 boys didn't get to go.

 

Anyway, it just feels like I'm stuck with the same "stuff" all the time. I will list out what has happened the last couple weeks and present it to dh, the coaches and the teachers... I don't feel like I can take them out of wrestling myself, I believe that decision has to come from dh. The way the school works, when boy 1 gets 5 disciplinary points, he cannot participate in wrestling... he has 3 points already.

 

I do like the sit outside the classroom idea... I can do that if the school will allow it. I will also find out each day what the homework is and if boy 3 doesn't have the homework, I'll assign something here at home... I will also have them both write letters to their teachers.

 

Thanks for listening... as I said, I've just been weary from it all... they can be such happy, lovable guys, but they have to grow up and live in the real world!

 

PS Yes, we do have a marriage therapist who is willing to branch out with the boys. That will most likely begin mid-Oct or Nov.

[elegantlion]

:grouphug::grouphug: Don't have any advice really. My dh was that problem child. His dad died when he was 9 and it has molded so much of his life. He was the middle child and left to his own a lot of the time. He grew up without a strong male role model and found trouble where he could.

 

I guess I do have some advice. I think dh needs to step it up in the discipline. Behavior like lying and refusing to do work in middle school would not be acceptable behavior in an adult, why accept it now? My dh is fond of saying that if we don't teach ds about the realities of life now, while he is in our home, life is not so forgiving.

 

The up side is that my dh is polar opposite from that problem child now. He is a great dad and cherishes every moment with his son. He understands that every moment does count.

 

What about counseling? Has anyone had the talk with boy #1 that yes, you've gotten by with things because of your mother's death. Now it's time to honor her and grow to be the man she would have wanted.

 

I'm on my first cup of coffee, I don't mean to sound harsh, really. :grouphug: