What do you do with a child that hates school?

[Susan in TX]

My 13yob hates anything that has anything to do with school. Even if it is a book about a subject that I know he is interested in, if I assign it to him to read for school, he won't want to read it.

 

He has always struggled with schoolwork. And he has always resisted it. Last year his attitude got so bad, and I was so burnt out, that I put him in school. He made Cs despite refusing to do any homework and I'm convinced that he learned absolutely nothing. I pulled him out at the end of the semester because the school was not meeting his needs. He was angry and hated school. He agreed to cooperate with me if we homeschooled, and he did, up till now. (That was 8 months ago).

 

Now we are back to the same ol' thing. He has a very bad attitude about school. Fights me about everything. It is like he has dug in his heels and is bound and determined that he will not learn anything. Things got really bad on Fri when I had him take a math assessment. There are things I know he knows how to do and he didn't even attempt to do the problem. He tested at about 4th grade for math and failed a bunch of topics that we have worked on extensively.

 

I don't know what to do. So far I have been able to successfully educate all my other kids but I am failing this child.

 

Susan in TX

[Country Mouse]

:grouphug:

What about something different, like computer-based or online classes? Something that puts more responsibility on him might change the dynamic.

[robsiew]

:grouphug::grouphug: to you Susan! We aren't to the teen years yet, but I have much compassion for you. I'm not necessarily overly excited about that period of time with our children!

 

I don't have any experience, however something came to mind that might help you.

 

I would have to dig to remember where I read this and I probably have a website bookmarked somewhere... but what about trying a big year long project incorporating all subject areas? So, for instance, say your son is interested in small engines. Have him work on building a go-cart. Have him study the history of engines, reading, taking notes, writing some papers on what he reads. I'm guessing it would be pretty easy to work physics and math into it too. Maybe just a year of taking a break from "formal book studies" would help him to regroup and find a joy for learning? If he's interested in animals, maybe he raises a certain type of animal... breeding them even. Researching the animal, proper homes, building a home for it... etc. Maybe he enjoys cooking? He could study different cuisines... maybe find a chef that would be willing to work with him. Study why certain food is common in certain areas of the world... I don't know... just some ideas off the top of my head...

 

I know there is a website if you're interested that I can track down where this man specializes in helping parents set up this type of project study with teens..... (maybe someone else has heard of this?)

 

If nothing else, :grouphug::grouphug:. Know it is NOT you! This is something your ds needs to wrestle through for some reason... stick by him, encourage him and it will pay off! (And if you're the praying type I would suggest that too! It never hurts!)

[kalanamak]

Is this child otherwise active, happy, interested, participating, or is this child sullen, rebellious, seclusive, unmotivated about everything else, too? Is there one thing that rings his bell, or nothing, or anything BUT school?

[Guest]

The previous poster's idea about engaging his interests and letting his work revolve around them was a great one. If at all possible, find him a mentor -- someone who works in a field he is interested in, who might let him help out or volunteer, or let him do a job shadowing type of thing.

 

The other thing I would suggest is a full evaluation. If he's resisting any and all reading and is behind in math, this sounds like a learning disability of some sort may be in play. He's thirteen already, so you have only a few years left to sort this out and find ways to help him learn and remember. I would make this a top priority. If finances are a concern, get him tested through a referral from your doctor to someone covered by your insurance, or go through the public school district. If you can afford it, however, a private, full neuropsychological evaluation is sheer gold. Ours included eleven hours of testing spread over several days, plus three hours of interviewing/discussion beforehand and several after, to go over the results and plan the future. It was worth every penny.

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

The other thing I would suggest is a full evaluation. If he's resisting any and all reading and is behind in math, this sounds like a learning disability of some sort may be in play. He's thirteen already, so you have only a few years left to sort this out and find ways to help him learn and remember. I would make this a top priority. If finances are a concern, get him tested through a referral from your doctor to someone covered by your insurance, or go through the public school district. If you can afford it, however, a private, full neuropsychological evaluation is sheer gold. Ours included eleven hours of testing spread over several days, plus three hours of interviewing/discussion beforehand and several after, to go over the results and plan the future. It was worth every penny.

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

I agree. I think given what you've described, learning disabilities are likely. I would also get him evaluated for depression, just in case.

 

Other ideas: the mother-son dynamic can kick in at this age and complicate things. I would ask dad to assign stuff and be the one to whom ds is accountable. Take the mother-son dynamic out of the equation.

 

Personally, I wouldn't try real hard to make school interesting. I know that sounds like homeschool heresy, but I think that's actually his responsibility. He needs to figure out what interests him. It's fine for you to ask him and to make some plans to suit his interests if he suggests stuff. (Then he's taking responsibility for it.) But don't bend over backwards or it's you taking all the responsbility.

 

He also needs to "just do it" when things don't interest him. Not all school is fascinating. Not all life is fascinating, either. There is much about homemaking I dislike, find boring, etc. There is a chunk of my job that is unappealing. Adults just. do. it. He needs those expectations.

 

I would make sure he gets plenty of physical exercise. A job is a really good thing, too. Even doing yard work for a neighbor can give a kid that age a sense of responsibility--and a glimpse into a future of earning money. That has some positive effects on school work.

 

If dh's situation allows, send him to the office with dh to do his schoolwork. Office environments have little distraction and dad is in charge in that setting.

 

Make sure you have a work-before-play rule that you hold fast to. Screen time, etc. comes only after school work is done.

[ma23peas]

You know how sometimes you have that spot on your rug that just needs extra care, it just won't come out easily? I believe the same thing happens with kids...every now and then we hit a spot that needs special attention...my first approach when we hit blocks like these is to chill out....cut 'school' out for awhile...pick ONE subject that he might have a little interest in...or if he has nothing, give him something..pick a STRONG read aloud...something that has him thinking and that the two of you can stop and question what's next...so many great biographies out there...

 

Live through it with him...then get him out of the house..go fishing! go canoeing!! spend non-school time with your son....praise him...most the time when we hit a snag, the child that struggles is the one that doesn't get 'the point' of school...why should he? It's GOOD to stop and question why...and it's GOOD to stop and show him today may be boring, but the better we prepare ourselves to do all things to a higher standard, the more we do all things better...in our family it ultimately comes back to honoring God...we may not be called out into an adventurous/exciting mission field....we may not have Indiana Jones moments, but at this time, are we doing our best? That includes us parents..I had to take more time with my 15 year old b/c he thrives on excelling, being the best...it's hard to be the best in a classroom of one! :) (He has sisters, but they're not in his grade)...so we found some areas where we could encourage him and show him that being the best isn't our goal, but doing our best is...

 

Paul Brand's books "The Gift of Pain" and "the Likeness of God" had a great impact on our family....as did Corrie Ten Boom...maybe a good study on just WW2?? We just watched "Defiance" last night....not as good as "Band of Brothers" but being a true story, it gave our son and us (mom & dad) a great discussion...so many options in life..how do we know when to make the right decision..."rescue 100 jews and put 40 at risk? or just protect the 40?".....maybe your son needs some perspective...

 

Tara

[momtotkbb]

I've thought about your post all night. Because of the fact that you say he's always struggled, resisted, and/or hated school, I would encourage you to look into a complete psychoeducational evaluation. The eval would be a starting place to evaluate his ability level v. his achievement level and it would also show how he learns best. If this were a new thing --I might throw it off as typical pre-teen/early teen behavior --but bec it's been on-going I think it's worth it to figure out the why behind it.

 

Some sites you might want to look at to see if any of it fits your ds would be: http://www.covd.org; http://www.ldonline.org/ldbasics/signs; http://www.ldonline.org/adhdbasics/symptoms; and http://www.hoagiesgifted.org (look at twice exceptional); http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/index.html

 

During my years in the private/public sector I saw a lot of kids who struggled, but made it through elementary and even early Jr. High, but then the frustration level hit the ceiling and it all fell apart. When you talked to them they hated school, hated the world, bec they didn't understand and felt "stupid". For some it was "easier" to demonstrate a total resistance or hatred of school then to admit that they didn't get it or didn't understand and hadn't all along --if that makes sense.

 

I know that my middle ds "hates" some parts of school - we have had to work over the years on helping him to understand why those create so much frustration for him --he is gifted, LD, ADHD and SPD. He LOVES the part of school that requires him to only sit and absorb (and sometimes discuss) whatever I will read to him. I have had to learn, with the help of great dev. ped., how to temper our school program so that I feed his giftedness, work on his areas of weaknesses, and bring him eventually to a level that he can succeed in life. Last year at 11 he could barely write 3 sentences --not w/ correct spelling or punctuation --just write them w/out a meltdown. This year he's writing one page journal entries w/ a huge majority of the words spelled correctly and he's including capitalization and at least periods. He will tell me, I don't like doing ______ and I prefer listening, but I know that we have to compromise. I don't think he would be able to do this at 12 if I hadn't been working on it since he was 6. Helping his voice his frustrations in an acceptable manner and understand his strengths and weakness has been and continues to be time consumming and at times mind-numbing for me --but I am seeing progress and I realize that he doesn't truly hate school, just the parts that are more difficult.

[Susan in TX]

Is this child otherwise active, happy, interested, participating, or is this child sullen, rebellious, seclusive, unmotivated about everything else, too? Is there one thing that rings his bell, or nothing, or anything BUT school?

 

He is otherwise active, happy, interested, and participating. He loves legos, loves to build things. He is currently building a boat out of scrap lumber and plans to take it to the creek and see if it will float. He is very mechanical, likes to work on old broken bikes. He takes working parts off one and then combines them to build entirely different bikes that actually work, even if they look a little odd. The neighborhood kids bring him their broken bikes and xboxes because they know he can fix them.

 

He does read. He just doesn't like being told what to read. I caught him reading National Geographic the other day. He was really reading it too, not just looking at the pictures. I know because he told me about the stuff he was reading.

 

I think he would do well with unschooling, but I don't want him to lose opportunities in life because his math and language arts skills are lacking.

I'm afraid if I did unschool him, he wouldn't learn the subjects he's weak in, he would just compensate and avoid whatever required them.

 

 

Susan in TX

[Oakblossoms]

Could he be on the spectrum? Could you unschooled for most things? Do TT for Math? something like SOS for language arts?

[Guest]

He is otherwise active, happy, interested, and participating. He loves legos, loves to build things. He is currently building a boat out of scrap lumber and plans to take it to the creek and see if it will float. He is very mechanical, likes to work on old broken bikes. He takes working parts off one and then combines them to build entirely different bikes that actually work, even if they look a little odd. The neighborhood kids bring him their broken bikes and xboxes because they know he can fix them.

 

He does read. He just doesn't like being told what to read. I caught him reading National Geographic the other day. He was really reading it too, not just looking at the pictures. I know because he told me about the stuff he was reading.

 

You might take a look at Jeffrey Freed's book Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World -- the mechanical skill and love of building, together with the resistance to conventional schooling and being told what to do -- this goes together with a profile of a kind of kid he writes about. The book offers different methods for teaching math, spelling, reading, and writing aimed at a more visual and kinesthenic kind of learner. He talks about boys in particular who are behind in regular school, which they "hate," and the tremendous strides they make once taught in a manner that works with their neurological wiring.

 

A long-term project connected with what he loves to do still sounds great. Have him either work with you to come up with a list of associated reading and something written, or see if he would like to plan it himself.

 

There's a volunteer organization in our city that assembles bikes from kits for Christmas presents for kids from economically distressed areas -- maybe you could find something like that close to you, or even begin something along those lines. Your son would be greatly in demand for his skills and get to do something extremely valuable for the community.

[kalanamak]

 

I think he would do well with unschooling, but I don't want him to lose opportunities in life because his math and language arts skills are lacking.

I'm afraid if I did unschool him, he wouldn't learn the subjects he's weak in, he would just compensate and avoid whatever required them.

 

 

Susan in TX

 

Could you make a deal with him? Must get up to X level in math and be able to Y well on standardized reading comp and Z level of writing, and let the rest of it be up to him? Give him a contract and map out the months, using as much curric as possible that is student-driven.

 

If he likes mechanics, I would work on finding projects that he'll WANT to have his math up to snuff for. By what you say, if this child found a need for these things in a passion of his, he'd learn them. It may not be high art, but the Chilton's Manual *is* reading. :)

 

Just some thoughts. When I was that I age, I was definitely a "deep single subject" person. For me it was horses. I recall one librarian giving me a snicker over having finished "all the books on horses and mammals" in the library, and that I'd have to find a new topic. I just moved over to the Vet College's library, where my dad taught, and I started living in the stacks there.:)

 

A role model sharing a passion of his, outside the family, might go a long ways, too. For me, it was the women of the equestrian club. I was the only under-teen, and just drank up the exposure.

[freerange]

Reading your description of your son made me think you (& he) might find "Surely You're Joking, Mr.Feynman!" & "The Pleasure of Finding Things Out" inspirational.

[Ester Maria]

There are kids that don't find as much enjoyment in school work as in some other areas of their lives. I've met several like that - who were REALLY into something outside of school (music, theatre, other special interests, etc.), but didn't like school much and struggled with it because of it. Very often those were capable, intelligent and talented people - but school wasn't their thing.

 

However, school IS a part of life, like it or not, and unless he learns to cope with it, he's going to have tremendous problems with "the system" in the future. One of the problematic things about homeschooling is that our kids often lack the experience of being told "just suck it up and do it" by a 'merciless' authority figure (esp. if male, for boys) and that's the experience that most people, growing up, get plenty of. We as homeschoolers, on the other hand, tend to overanalyze the child and searching for deeper reasons even when there aren't any, thus signalling to the child that he CAN get away with it, and that there MUST be a deeper reason for such attitude and behavior, while there often isn't - there are kids that just don't like school, and that need to be told to suck it up and do it.

 

Of course, engaging his interests might help, and I'd definitely try to tie as much learning as possible to his interests - but ultimately, it comes down to him learning to do things he doesn't like doing and growing out of the attitude thing while doing them.

[Susan in TX]

Thank you so much for all of your insights and suggestions. I will look up those books and read the websites.

 

Susan in TX

[Susan in TX]

However, school IS a part of life, like it or not, and unless he learns to cope with it, he's going to have tremendous problems with "the system" in the future. One of the problematic things about homeschooling is that our kids often lack the experience of being told "just suck it up and do it" by a 'merciless' authority figure (esp. if male, for boys) and that's the experience that most people, growing up, get plenty of.

 

You bring up a very interesting point, and one of the main reasons why I homeschool. My fundamental belief is that learning should, for the most part, be an enjoyable activity. I don't think people learn very much when they are doing it under coercion. And while I might tell my kids to ""just suck it up and do it" when it comes to chores, I don't want that to be the case with school.

 

Susan in TX

[Dana]

Reading your description of your son made me think you (& he) might find "Surely You're Joking, Mr.Feynman!"

 

I adore the book but as an FYI for others, Feynman does discuss hanging out in strip clubs, so some mature themes if you are really watching what your kids read. I'm also not recalling if he was an atheist or not.

 

(Of course, ds asked about the atom bomb... should probably not have been letting him play Civ so much - and I handed him this book... After he was halfway through it, I picked it up to reread as well. Oops. There are some really nifty stories about working on the bomb. The stories about safecracking seemed to stick with my son.)

 

To the OP, I don't know if it'd help, but you could have a discussion and try a contract where you write out your son's responsibilities with school and consequences if the work isn't done. Doing it after having a discussion may air any issues and having it in writing may help with his buy in. Of course, we haven't hit 13 yet... so it may not work. Good luck.

[Ester Maria]

You bring up a very interesting point, and one of the main reasons why I homeschool. My fundamental belief is that learning should, for the most part, be an enjoyable activity. I don't think people learn very much when they are doing it under coercion. And while I might tell my kids to ""just suck it up and do it" when it comes to chores, I don't want that to be the case with school.

I'm weird, I know :D, but basically, it comes down to preferring coercion over ignorance. I personally thanked many of my former professors for making me go through things I loathed back at the time - and I wasn't the only one to do that. I don't believe in Rousseau-ish notions of romanticized human nature, absolute joy in learning, etc. Sometimes - not often, but sometimes, yes - one just needs to suck it up and do what the "system" requires.

 

I know that how I school is all too "despotic" in many people's eyes, but in practice, little and carefully sporadically used doses of "suck it up, dear" work wonders. Sometimes all kids need is an initial impulse anyway, and afterwards they work off their own will - it takes a bit to get into it sometimes. And kids still thrive and are happy and love to learn and all - but they know they won't be getting away with some things. :)

[Guest]

I'm weird, I know :D, but basically, it comes down to preferring coercion over ignorance.

 

I don't think it has to be either one or the other. There is a vast middle ground, and there are many roads to educational ends. For every person who thrives in response to being told to just do it, or who ultimately appreciates being coerced through something, there are myriad others for whom this experience is so off-putting that they avoid further encounters with the subject. A lot depends on the particular child.