Ester Maria's Santa Post *Who remembers Santa being ruined for you or you ruining it

[SonshineLearner]

Oh My Gosh!! I laughed SOOOO hard when I read this! How many of us remember ruining Santa for someone? I remember ruining it on a carpool ride for my kindergarten friend. I staying behind after she got out, because I couldn't figure out why her mom kept lying and telling me I was wrong about Santa. I thought the MOM thought Santa was REAL and was very concerned!! The mom finally admitted to me, in hopes of getting me out of the car, that the "No Santa" thing... was our secret!!

 

Here's Ester Maria's very smart Daughter... in years past...

 

 

 

Today, 10:39 AM

Ester Maria

Hive Mind Queen Bee

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bethanyniez

While we've spoken with the boys about how other children believe in Santa, Easter Bunny, etc, and that it's not their place to 'correct' other children, it can be tricky.

I actually had the following conversation with one of my daughters when she was 5-6 years old:

 

Eva: It's the parents who are actually getting kids presents, right?

Ester: True.

Eva: But the kids are not pretending.

Ester: What do you mean?

Eva: It's not a game, it's not that parents are pretending and kids are pretending, it's only parents are pretending that Santa gives presents, but kids are not pretending, kids actually believe.

Ester: It's because their parents don't tell them it's a game.

Eva (shocked ): THEY'RE LYING?!

Ester: Well, you may call it lying, yes. It's a custom by them.

Eva: But why can't the parents give the kids the presents without lying abougt who gives them?

Ester: They consider it a sort of game, so parents pretend there's also a Santa. Just like you sometimes when you play pretend there are things which there aren't, or you pretend the dolls are alive, and similar.

Eva: But I KNOW I'm pretending and kids I'm playing with also know I'm pretending and we all know we're pretending and nobody is lying to anyone because it's a game that we all play.

Ester: Well, "they" play the game the way only the parents know it's a game, it's one of their customs.

Eva: But it's a bad custom. We don't do that.

Ester: No, we don't.

Eva: I should tell them their parents are lying.

Ester: But you're ending the game that way. They can no longer pretend.

Eva: They shouldn't play a game in which not everyone who plays knows it's a game! It's cruel! It's making fun out of people.

Ester: Well, we view it that way, but they...

Eva: We don't know how they see it, because they don't know it's a game.

Ester: True. They believe it's not a game.

Eva: So I should tell them it is.

Ester: They might be sad to know it's their parents. Their parents might be angry because you ruined the game for them.

Eva: But their parents know they pretend. They're not telling them about Santa because they really think Santa brings presents. Since they bring presents, they must also know that Santa doesn't bring presents.

Ester: Yes.

Eva: So parents have no excuse. They know what they're doing is wrong.

Ester: Eva, it's a custom. That's how they do.

Eva: But it's not alright! It's wrong!

Ester: But it's a custom.

Eva: But it's a BAD custom if it's a custom and it shouldn't be a custom if we know it's bad. We shouldn't do bad things just because other people before us did bad things and these people are doing bad things and know they're doing bad things when they lie to their children about who gives the present. I should tell my friends.

Ester: But they will find out anyway, in a year or two. They don't believe it forever, you know. At some point they learn, so they all pretend from that point on.

Eva: But I cannot not tell them. I have to tell them, because I know something they don't know which concerns them and which is bad and I MUST tell them.

Ester: But it's their parents' place to tell them, they're playing.

Eva: No, if I know something wrong is happening, it's also my place to stop it! If I don't, it's like I take part in it! And you always say that the one who is silent agrees.

 

And so on and so on, pretty much like that. Tried to convince the kid it's really not her personal responsibility, but she was deeply troubled by both what's going on AND the idea that she somehow "shouldn't" tell. So she told.

__________________

Wheelock's is likely the best Latin resource that the author of these lines has seen so far on the anglophone market, and the best introductory Philosophy textbook for middle/high school students is the one by Arno Anzenbacher and, as is the cases with many good and worthy German books, probably hasn't been translated to English.

 

Sciences should be studied simultaneously in high school, not in one-year blocks.

[Pamela H in Texas]

No one ruined it for me. I figured it out and a friend confirmed. We kept it up a long time though.

 

For my kids....well, my mom wanted to do Santa but my kids knew it was her. So none of the questions in the other thread was an issue because they could still answer questions honestly. We kept some other traditions otherwise more in tune with what we believed was the real reason for the holiday.

 

Then we changed faiths (Christian, not mainstream) so no longer did Christmas at all. So then it was simply, "we don't do Christmas." Kids seem to get that a whole lot easier than doing Christmas without Santa.

 

So for me, no problem of it being ruined or ruining it. For my kids no problem (they appreciated our choices and reasons), either.

 

ETA: I also wasn't offended by the "game" requiring lying. However, my kids are pretty firm about that they are glad we didn't lie to them.

[hsbaby]

I think I figured it out around seven years old. Instead of being mad my patents "lied", I remember feeling sorry for them!! I would see their excited faces in the morning when we would get our stockings. They were always so anxious to see what Santa brought. So I played along. For years:tongue_smilie:

[Heidi]

I remember figuring it out on my own. From what I knew about God... that he created all things... the thought of Him also creating flying reindeer and elves didn't fit in with the rest of His creations. I begged my mom to confirm it and she finally did. I think I was about 7 or 8 years old.

[ScoutTN]

It was no big deal for me...no memory of being disillusioned or heartbroken. Or of ruining anyone else's fun.

My parents made it still fun well through college by not putting out presents until late Christmas Eve. Prevents snooping and is exciting to see the pile of gifts in the morning. Also, we each had to put one thing in everyone else's stocking and the sneaking to do it unseen was fun.

My Daddy was like a kid about Christmas and he was the spark, way more than Santa, for us.

 

We do Santa "light" withour own kids. Not pushing it, but not aggressively trying to undo it either. Christmas is about Jesus here, but we don't see grave spiritual peril in a bit of Santa. :D

[BikeBookBread]

There wasn't a choice for my situation. I was 5, and allowed to stay up way too late on Christmas Eve - Midnight :w00t: I had always been told that Santa came down the chimney at midnight. So, I looked at my Dad and Mom and said, "It's midnight. There's no Santa is there? Or else he would've been burned up in the fireplace." :lol: (There was a roaring Christmas Eve fire...) So I self-ruined.

[Lostinabook]

This is one of my favorite Santa Claus stories: The Equuschick Killed Santy Claus

[MyThreeSons]

When I was almost 3yo, I told Santa (at the mall) what I wanted for Christmas. I never told anyone else. When I didn't find my special doll under the tree, I spent all day looking for it. For many years after that, I was reminded how I spoiled Christmas that year because I made my parents and grandparents feel so bad.

[Carol in Cal.]

I heard that Santa was not real when I was about 6, from a boy in school. I went home and asked my mom about it. She asked me whether I really wanted to know...and I thought about that and decided that I didn't. I guess I sort of knew right then, but the actual total realization was a year or two later. I don't remember my parents encouraging this belief in the first place, more that we picked up elsewhere and they didn't set us straight.

[abbeyej]

Roflol. Love the Eva-conversation. We have always played Santa as a game with our kids (yes, with them in on the secret too). We talk about the real Saint Nicholas and the traditions that have grown out of legends about the real man, and how we enjoy participating in those traditions too. Sometimes my kids will play very seriously and pretend they think it's true -- but they do know, and the pretend is up to them.

 

On the other hand, ds did say (I think he was 7 or 8? to a good friend of his who is fully *two*years*older*) something about how St Nicholas died ~400 years ago, and the friend looked at him like he had lost his mind, and just went on with his Santa story. lol...

 

I *try* to make sure my kids understand that other people play the game differently than we do, and that some kids think Santa is real and we shouldn't ruin it for them. But, you know, everybody finds out *some*time.

[MrsBasil]

No one ruined it, I figured it out on my own when I was about 7 or 8. I asked my mom and she told me that yes, she and dad brought the presents and told me a little about St. Nicholas. That was the only religious story my mother EVER shared with me. She talked about the spirit of Santa, the Christmas spirit, and the fun she had seeing our faces on Christmas morning.

 

I never felt lied to or upset at all. As an adult I'm thankful I had the childhood I did.

 

Santa still leaves presents under our tree though. :tongue_smilie:

[Sherry in OH]

I read it in the note to parents at the back of a Sunday School Book. I don't think I ever mentioned to my parents that I knew. Santa was not that big of a deal at our house. He filled our stockings and ate some of our cookies. The gifts under the tree were from family members.

[Laurie4b]

I remember a friend telling me. I then felt guilty like I had to hide the knowledge from my mother. I had to pretend to believe my parents' pretending!

 

However, it wasn't that big a deal!

[Ester Maria]

Personally, I didn't ruin it for anyone because back in those old days children were coming to the first grade actually aware of the fact that Santa, Befana and alike creatures don't exist - it seems to have been something that was largely outgrown before school - and if somebody came without knowing it, they figured out from the talks of other children as well as regular school curriculum ("The legend of Saint Nicholas...", "The popular Italian legend of Befana..." and then with historical explanations) during the first grade. It was only upon moving to the States that I figured out that there are 8-9 year olds who actually still believe it, I thought it impossible, since I thought that by that age, even if not explicitly told by anyone, children know way too much about the world, physical laws, legends and customs around the world, to actually keep buying it.

 

And nobody ruined it for me because I was a Jew and, as such, persona non grata on Santa's list. :D

[Annie]

I think I figured it out around seven years old. Instead of being mad my patents "lied", I remember feeling sorry for them!! I would see their excited faces in the morning when we would get our stockings. They were always so anxious to see what Santa brought. So I played along. For years:tongue_smilie:

 

Pretty much this. I think I was 5 or 6 when I figured it out, but I couldn't bring myself To make my mom sad. She still thinks I believed until I was much older. I tried to tell her the truth once maybe 10 years ago, but she didn't believe me! She thought I was just embarrassed for being so gullible and believing for so long. I guess I was a good actress.