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If my DS hated AAS, would he disliked Barton Also?


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If my son (13yo) didn't do well with All About Spelling and hated it, would he feel the same way about Barton Reading and Spelling?

 

He really disliked the hands-on of the tiles and all the rules. And we moved very, very slowly through Levels 1, 2 and 3. Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

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If my son (13yo) didn't do well with All About Spelling and hated it, would he feel the same way about Barton Reading and Spelling?

 

He really disliked the hands-on of the tiles and all the rules. And we moved very, very slowly through Levels 1, 2 and 3. Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Barton would probably be even more disliked because it goes into more depth and detail than AAS.

 

Though if you are still doing AAS you don't have to always use the tiles. With my oldest two I only use them to demonstrate the principles. Once they go to spell words I allow them to do so on paper.

 

Heather

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What about Apples and Pears Spelling? It doesn't have tiles, very few rules to learn, etc. but lots of different activities each day. It has worked very well for my girls with special needs.

 

If my son (13yo) didn't do well with All About Spelling and hated it, would he feel the same way about Barton Reading and Spelling?

 

He really disliked the hands-on of the tiles and all the rules. And we moved very, very slowly through Levels 1, 2 and 3. Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

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Well, I'm thinking of Barton for reading since he still has such trouble. He's on about a 3rd/4th grade level I think. I went ahead and bought a set of the I See Sam books and we are going to work through those to remove any gaps and build his confidence/fluency.

 

I'm jut not totally sure if this is a decoding or fluency issue or some of both. We had done Saxon Phonics and he disliked the coding so much that we switched to AAS, but really that didn't go much better. He just gets bogged down with rules and can't move past them.

 

He knows all the letter sounds and can hear them well but he seems to have trouble with retrieval (in his brain). He mostly messes up vowels - "i" for o or "e" for u - that kind of thing and vowel teams throw him. He doesn't have any auditory processing issues and his comprehension is great when I read aloud to him or when he reads.

 

So anyway, DS being 13, I'm getting nervous and he really gets frustrated that he can't read better.

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He wrote everything that was supposed to done with the tiles. He retained the material just fine.

 

After completing AAS level 4, I decided to let him try Megawords for a change of pace. It has an "older kid" feel to it.

 

I highly recommend you completing level 4 *without* the tiles and have him write everything instead. Then move to Megawords 1.

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Is he good at math?

 

My remedial students who are good at math find these charts very helpful, it lets them use their math skills to read and spell. They get to read and spell while having these charts next to them:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

 

How to use these charts is explained in my phonics lessons 28 and 29.

 

My free online lessons take 10 hours to complete and focus on vowels. They also have rules, but you don't have to stop and memorize them if you don't want to.

 

They also teach the syllables taught in Webster's Speller, which would make it easy for you to teach the Speller and have him use these syllable divided books, books written at a high grade level but easy to decode because they are broken up into syllables, you can see some examples of the books here, they are free online from Google books:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllabledividedb.html

 

Barton seems to have a good resale value if you want to give it a try, I know several parents who have had success with it.

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Unfortunately, no, he's not good with math. He remembers stories that we've read perfectly and movies/tv shows that he's seen but trying to remember numbers or letters and he falters. He sees the books in pictures in his head like a movie when we read but he can't picture words in his head. It's there, but he can't retrieve it.

 

Elizabeth, I've looked at your site many times and found alot of good information there. I'm just having a hard time finding the fit he needs. I looked at those charts and those would completely confuse him. He's a perfectionist too so if he doesn't remember one of the spelling rules (once there got to be so many of them) and when there's an exception to the rule, it really upsets him and throws him off.

 

I'm wondering if I should just work on reading and then worry about spelling or if its better to use a program like Barton that does both. In AAs I was trying to do both, but maybe Barton is better setup for the combo since AAS is just spelling?

 

BTW, thank you everyone for helping me with this. It seems the more I read, the more I realize that the dyslexia lock doesn't have only one key to unlock it and it takes trying alot of options to find it.

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Unfortunately, no, he's not good with math. He remembers stories that we've read perfectly and movies/tv shows that he's seen but trying to remember numbers or letters and he falters. He sees the books in pictures in his head like a movie when we read but he can't picture words in his head. It's there, but he can't retrieve it.

 

Elizabeth, I've looked at your site many times and found alot of good information there. I'm just having a hard time finding the fit he needs. I looked at those charts and those would completely confuse him. He's a perfectionist too so if he doesn't remember one of the spelling rules (once there got to be so many of them) and when there's an exception to the rule, it really upsets him and throws him off.

 

I'm wondering if I should just work on reading and then worry about spelling or if its better to use a program like Barton that does both. In AAs I was trying to do both, but maybe Barton is better setup for the combo since AAS is just spelling?

 

BTW, thank you everyone for helping me with this. It seems the more I read, the more I realize that the dyslexia lock doesn't have only one key to unlock it and it takes trying alot of options to find it.

Barton may be just the thing because he can also watch the videos with you.

 

That being said, my son's tutor is a reading specialist and says that spelling is the absolute last thing to happen, and in dyslexics it is painfully slow. If your purpose is spelling, Barton may not be what you are looking for either. If it is reading, then maybe if you move your focus on to that, it might change perspective and attitudes.

 

Have you joined the heartsofreading yahoo group? They have tons of information there.

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Barton may be just the thing because he can also watch the videos with you.

 

That being said, my son's tutor is a reading specialist and says that spelling is the absolute last thing to happen, and in dyslexics it is painfully slow. If your purpose is spelling, Barton may not be what you are looking for either. If it is reading, then maybe if you move your focus on to that, it might change perspective and attitudes.

 

Have you joined the heartsofreading yahoo group? They have tons of information there.

 

Yes, I've joined the group there and have been reading all day. Of course, I'm slightly even more confused now because of all the different options. :confused1:

 

I'm leaning towards at least trying Barton - I think Level 1 would be good for my son. He only just "got" rhyming words in the past year or two so he may have phonemic awareness issues that this could address. At this point I'm willing to try anything but a "magic" fix would be nice (or at least a here, this will definitely work for you). ;)

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If you haven't already, go to the Barton website and give your son the screening test. It is free. Then using the information you have from that, call Susan Barton. I did and she was a wealth of information - even to the point of telling us that due tothe complexity of my son's issues at the time that she believed her system would not help. She then gave me some other ideas, places to look, and even offered to help me again should I need it.

 

We ended up using a private tutor that uses the Scottish Rite program for dyslexics. You can buy it for personal use thru EPS if you want to use it.

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Unfortunately, no, he's not good with math. He remembers stories that we've read perfectly and movies/tv shows that he's seen but trying to remember numbers or letters and he falters. He sees the books in pictures in his head like a movie when we read but he can't picture words in his head. It's there, but he can't retrieve it.

Big flag. You probably need Seeing Stars (SS). Now this can be a full phonics program, or you can buy the TM and add it to other phonics/spelling programs. It works on developing the ability to see letters and then words in the mind for those who don't already have it. BTW I bet he is having the same problem with math, and needs On Cloud Nine (or something similar) to learn to see numbers and quantities in his mind.

 

I have 4 dyslexic students and I am dyslexic. My oldest two can see words in their minds, and can spell well. My 2nd dd has recall issues like your ds and could spell words for a year before she could blend. She had automatic recall of the letter if you gave her the sound, but show her the letter and ask her to remember the sound and she couldn't. My 3rd dd and I both lack the ability to see words in our minds and both of us have horrible spelling. Once more since we have been doing SS work her reading has also improved. My 3rd dd also had difficulty hearing sounds, like the difference between short i and short e, and blends. She only ever heard one sound in blends. She also had to go through LiPS even through she could pass the Barton screening. LiPS helped her develop the ability to hear the difference between sounds, an for bad days tough her how the mouth moves when making letters so she can fall back on that when needed. Does your ds have any problems hearing the difference between sounds?

 

Honestly the only program that I would recommend hands down right now is Seeing Stars. He needs that foundational piece of being able to see words in his mind. LiPS is another foundational piece of the puzzle, which is why I asked about sounds too. Barton really only touches on both pieces and will only be so successful without them.

 

Heather

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Heather,

 

He hears the differences in the sounds, he just has trouble retrieving the right sound from his brain when he needs it. For sit, he may say sot and then catch himself or if I say, its an i - what sound does that make and he gets it. He's really pretty fluent with cvc words and even some harder words. He often reads a word that I'm surprised he knows. I asked him if he sees words in his head when he's trying to spell them and he said no. For the words he knows how to spell, he's memorized it. Is there a test or something I can ask him that would help me determine if Seeing Stars is what he needs? Can you give me an idea of how Seeing Stars would help achieve the visualization?

 

You mentioned On Cloud Nine. We have been using RightStart and I think its going well. He's just really behind. He can't picture the abacus in his head but he does alot of his math mentally. We also use Singapore IP and CWP. Those are much harder for him and he usually needs me with him to work through the problems. Do you still think I should look into OCN? or stick with RS?

Edited by Lucidity
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Heather,

 

He hears the differences in the sounds, he just has trouble retrieving the right sound from his brain when he needs it. For sit, he may say sot and then catch himself or if I say, its an i - what sound does that make and he gets it.

I don't know how long you have been working on letter to sound correlations, but with my kids doing daily work it did come, and usually within a year, with ds two. Though part of his break through goes to Barton. He is a kinesthetic boy and just the movements used helped it click for him. I don't know how much longer I would have been working on it if it weren't for that. My guess it that it will come, but it is going to take doing work he considers babyish. My 7yo ds daily went through the phonograms and wrote or traced sand letters while saying their sounds. He has the first roughly 30, but it will still take several years for him to learn them all. Even my 3rd dd who is 4th grade can't do them all yet. My oldest two have them mastered, but their issues have always been milder.

 

 

He's really pretty fluent with cvc words and even some harder words. He often reads a word that I'm surprised he knows.

 

Yea! You have to celebrate the little victories. :D

 

I asked him if he sees words in his head when he's trying to spell them and he said no. For the words he knows how to spell, he's memorized it. Is there a test or something I can ask him that would help me determine if Seeing Stars is what he needs? Can you give me an idea of how Seeing Stars would help achieve the visualization?

 

I don't know of a test, other than paying to have him evaluated at a Lindamoodbell center. But developing the ability to see words in the mind for people who can't is exactly what SS was created for. I will PM you with more info.

 

You mentioned On Cloud Nine. We have been using RightStart and I think its going well. He's just really behind. He can't picture the abacus in his head but he does alot of his math mentally. We also use Singapore IP and CWP. Those are much harder for him and he usually needs me with him to work through the problems. Do you still think I should look into OCN? or stick with RS?

 

He would probably be fine with RS, just continue to reinforce seeing quantities as much as you can. RS is one of the few programs I have seen that does have a focus on seeing quantities. I also suspect that if you are doing SS you could cross some of that work over without buying the whole OCN manual.

 

My kids often need help with CWP problems too. My oldest drives me batty because she is an auditory learner and often if she just hears it she can figure it out, but she refuses to read them aloud to herself because it makes her feel self conscience. :banghead: She is one of the kids who will just "know" the answer but can't tell you how she got there if her life depended on it. She is going to have so much fun in upper level math. :blink:

 

Heather

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