KB vs TT vs MUS - users of any of these, please!!!

[StaceyinLA]

WHY, oh WHY does math for ds just KILL me?? I canNOT make up my mind about what to use for this child for the rest of HS!!

 

He is in tenth grade. He is actually strong enough in math, but not finished with algebra I mainly due to my working the last 2 years. We were in a co-op, so he got plenty of other credits under his belt, but we slacked in math (I know, horrible, and I am kicking myself for it).

 

Anyway, he is using Kinetic Books Algebra I online, but idk how I feel about it, certainly not for the long haul.

 

I'm thinking I could go with TT and have him do, at a minimum, Alg I through pre-calc over the next 3 years (I would try to get calc in too), OR I could do MUS and cover the same topics.

 

I have narrowed it down to these because of the ease of teaching. I took enough math for my major, but it's been a LONG time. None of my girls did beyond Alg II because they didn't need to for their planned majors. DS does wanna go to college, and will need more math.

 

I will probably supplement either with some AoPS, or LOF over the course of the next few years.

 

Thanks for input. I am really desperate at this point. We start school in a week!

[LuvingLife]

WHY, oh WHY does math for ds just KILL me?? I canNOT make up my mind about what to use for this child for the rest of HS!!

 

He is in tenth grade. He is actually strong enough in math, but not finished with algebra I mainly due to my working the last 2 years. We were in a co-op, so he got plenty of other credits under his belt, but we slacked in math (I know, horrible, and I am kicking myself for it).

 

Anyway, he is using Kinetic Books Algebra I online, but idk how I feel about it, certainly not for the long haul.

 

I'm thinking I could go with TT and have him do, at a minimum, Alg I through pre-calc over the next 3 years (I would try to get calc in too), OR I could do MUS and cover the same topics.

 

I have narrowed it down to these because of the ease of teaching. I took enough math for my major, but it's been a LONG time. None of my girls did beyond Alg II because they didn't need to for their planned majors. DS does wanna go to college, and will need more math.

 

I will probably supplement either with some AoPS, or LOF over the course of the next few years.

 

Thanks for input. I am really desperate at this point. We start school in a week!

 

Have you tried Lial's? This is an amazing program and it is extremely cheap! I love it, it goes from algebra 1 through pre-calc (I think), the explanations are amazing!

 

Here is the book for algebra one: introductory algebra. You can find older versions of it ( 7th and 8th) for a few bucks on amazon, they are amazing, just ask Jann in TX, she uses these for her online math class.:001_smile:

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Do you know if he does better with mastery or spiral? MUS is mastery with review and TT is spiral (I haven't use it, this is what TT told me). Spiral doesn't work for us so that ruled out TT (for us). You could also have your ds watch the demo of both and see what he thinks. My impression is that TT is more hands off for the parent but since I haven't used it I can't say for sure . I always watch the MUS DVD with my kids so I can keep up with them and help them if needed (plus I enjoy it). I do have to do all the grading with MUS.

[Corraleno]

Anyway, he is using Kinetic Books Algebra I online, but idk how I feel about it, certainly not for the long haul.

I'm curious why you don't like Kinetic Books?

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

My impression is that TT is more hands off for the parent but since I haven't used it I can't say for sure . I always watch the MUS DVD with my kids so I can keep up with them and help them if needed (plus I enjoy it). I do have to do all the grading with MUS.

The parent would need to grade the student's work in TT as well — once you get to Prealgebra, the problems are no longer online, they're in the workbook.

 

Jackie

[AngieW in Texas]

I love Kinetic Books. My oldest used it just for Algebra II and my middle used it for Algebra I and is now using it for Algebra II.

 

I would love for my youngest to do KB PreAlgebra, but she can't stand math programs that have any kind of video associated that she has to watch or that are done on the computer. I will probably end up putting her in MUS Prealgebra because it has the BLACK print on WHITE paper (not manilla, not off-white, not antique white) that she needs for her visual processing issues.

 

All of my kids have looked at the samples for TT and didn't like what they saw, so I've never pursued it.

[StaceyinLA]

I think it just doesn't seem like it's complete. I know it's probably because it's online only that it makes me feel like it's not enough. I really don't know. It just bothers me.

[Alyce]

It is one of the math programs that she uses for her online courses and highly recommends. It is written for very little involvement for the teacher. There are video's that go with it but from reading this forum from everybody else that uses it, they are seldom if anytime used. The concepts and how to do them are extremely well written. The book is also very easy to use. I've used MUS and it's okay from upper level math but doesn't go indepth. My dd used MUS and did well once she went off to college. My son just wasn't doing well with MUS Alg 1 so when it was time for us to do Alg 2 we tried Lial's and his math improved tremendously. I only wish I had tried it for Alg 1 it is such a well written program. We used TT for geometry. My son hated it and because of it's style has retained very little of what he learned. It is a very expensive program and for us it ended up being a waste of good money.

[Corraleno]

I think it just doesn't seem like it's complete. I know it's probably because it's online only that it makes me feel like it's not enough. I really don't know. It just bothers me.

FWIW, I've used at least parts of KB, TT, and MUS Prealgebra (and I own all three Algebra programs as well), and I would consider KB to be more rigorous and more complete than either of the other two. KB's online textbooks have to meet or exceed the normal standards for PS algebra texts, whereas TT and MUS are designed specifically for homeschoolers and can arrange (and label) their courses however they like. If you feel that KB really isn't enough, then I would look for something like Lial's, with the DVDs, as others have suggested.

 

Jackie

Edited August 25, 2010 by Corraleno
typo

[StaceyinLA]

I've used Lials with my girls and it hasn't gone so well, but ds is a different character. He might do well with it.

 

I appreciate the info about KB as well. Deep down I know it is probably more complete, but it just doesn't seem that way, maybe due to lack of a paper book. That's just my issue I guess.

 

I think I'll stick with the KB for now, but may order a lials just to see how he does with it...

 

Thanks for the input!!

 

Also, what would be a good, quick review on converting Fractions and decimals to percents and vice versa? Just want to brush up on that with him a bit too.

[Corraleno]

Also, what would be a good, quick review on converting Fractions and decimals to percents and vice versa? Just want to brush up on that with him a bit too.

The MM Blue book on Percents (6-8th grade) would be quick, thorough, and cheap ($3.50). Life of Fred Decimals & Percents would work, too, but it would be slower unless he just worked the problems in the "bridges" every 5 chapters.

 

Jackie

[Brindee]

Do you know if he does better with mastery or spiral? MUS is mastery with review and TT is spiral (I haven't use it, this is what TT told me). Spiral doesn't work for us so that ruled out TT (for us). You could also have your ds watch the demo of both and see what he thinks. My impression is that TT is more hands off for the parent but since I haven't used it I can't say for sure . I always watch the MUS DVD with my kids so I can keep up with them and help them if needed (plus I enjoy it). I do have to do all the grading with MUS.

TT isn't spiral or incremental. It breaks the major concepts down into "chewable" chunks for the student, but it does eventually move on. Saxon's spiral method seems to be rather random, and TT does at least introduce the concepts in order, divided conceptually by chapter.

 

It is not a rigorous program, which is good for some, and not so good for others.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

TT isn't spiral or incremental. It breaks the major concepts down into "chewable" chunks for the student, but it does eventually move on. Saxon's spiral method seems to be rather random, and TT does at least introduce the concepts in order, divided conceptually by chapter.

 

It is not a rigorous program, which is good for some, and not so good for others.

 

Well, TT are the ones who told me that their program is spiral. They didn't say it was incremental, just spiral.

[Corraleno]

I think the term "spiral" gets used in a lot of different ways. Some people would consider Saxon as the ultimate spiral program and others would say it's not spiral at all, just incremental.

 

The "spiral" part of TT is in the review, rather than in the way new concepts are introduced. It does introduce new concepts in a logical order, with each lesson building on the previous one, but the practice problems will only include a few on the new topic, then the rest are all on previous topics. Even in TT Prealgebra, there will be a few problems on the new topic, followed by some simple addition or subtraction problems, a few fractions problems, etc. — none of which have anything to do with the topic of the current lesson. So I would say the teaching is incremental but the review is spiral.

 

Jackie

[StaceyinLA]

That's one i haven't heard of.

 

Also, I talked to ds, and he said he would prefer to do TT over KB. He said he basically just wants a good text, and will watch videos when needed.

 

I ordered Lials, so I'm gonna try that and see if he likes the explanations. I only had to pay $1 for a 7th Ed student book, so it's not gonna kill me if he doesn't like it.

 

I guess I'm gonna rule out MUS for sure at this point, due to the fact that the approach is just so different and I think he would just rather something more "normal" at this point.

[Corraleno]

What is the MM blue book? That's one i haven't heard of.

It's one of the short (65 pages in this case) Math Mammoth "Blue Series" books on individual topics. Percents is for grades 6-8, and it provides a good conceptual overview of the topic, as well as lots of varied practice problems.

 

Jackie

[dmrranch]

I'm coming in a little late on this but wanted to ask you a question. Do you think what you are using is not complete or is it that you're not sure if your child is getting math? It is so important to make sure that the student actually gets math. One of the ladies that posted asked you if he learns best with a mastery approach (cover 1 concept, practice, move on, along with cummulative review OR spiral method where you learn a little something here then the rest of the concept a little later and so on.)

 

If you want a mastery approach, I would go with MUS making sure you do the honors problems. I have used it, Teaching Textbooks and I am also using Life of Fred. With MUS, you can move along at his pace. You might find that you can move on into Geometry a little faster with this type of program. If you decide to go with this, let me know and I will show you how to do it. You can supplement with Lof for fractions and then the Decimals & Percents. At least it won't be boring, dry worksheets that really do not teach him anything. Again, I can explain how plus there are lots of thread of how people are utilizing this combo of MUS/LoF. BTW, LoF advocates that it is actually a stand alone program for mathematics. I haven't had the opportunity to prove that for myself and so I hesitate to say it would work here. But, I have found those on this forum that have done it!

 

HTH and doesn't add more confusion.

[AngieW in Texas]

KB is definitely complete. I used Jacobs Algebra for my oldest and KB covered everything in Jacobs and then went quite a bit beyond it. For example, Jacobs went as far as teaching how to solve systems of two equations with two unknowns, but KB went all the way to three equations with three unknowns. KB also taught how to optimize solutions for inequalities and that wasn't in Jacobs at all.

 

You shouldn't have any worries about KB's completeness. It's definitely covers everything that is usually covered in Algebra I and then it goes beyond that.

[StaceyinLA]

I think it is complete based on reviews, but my son doesn't particularly like it. I think he wants something with a book in hand. I want something with some video support. I'm not sure about the MUS approach just because it's so different.

 

One thing about Kinetic Books is that it only has Alg I and II, and Id really like to use one thing all the way through calc so we aren't changing programs again.

 

MUS goes all the way and Im thinking TT will have calc by the time we need it. I would need to be sure of that.

 

So when u say you can show me how to do this (MUS) what do you mean??

[dmrranch]

I think it is complete based on reviews, but my son doesn't particularly like it. I think he wants something with a book in hand. I want something with some video support. I'm not sure about the MUS approach just because it's so different.

 

One thing about Kinetic Books is that it only has Alg I and II, and Id really like to use one thing all the way through calc so we aren't changing programs again.

 

MUS goes all the way and Im thinking TT will have calc by the time we need it. I would need to be sure of that.

 

So when u say you can show me how to do this (MUS) what do you mean??

 

Stacey,

 

First, I agree with you in regards to choosing a program that goes all the way through. TWTM also recommends the same. It's just as equally important to try to not jump from one program to another, unless you see an issue with what you are using.

 

I would encourage you to search the forum for TT vs MUS, etc and see which would fit your needs better. Personally, I prefer MUS' approach over the 2.

 

What I meant when I said I would show you how to move faster through MUS to get you into Geometry was how to schedule your lessons to where you will still have mastery but be able to move forward than the way the program is laid out. I've talked at length with the rep here where I am about how to use the program. But, don't misunderstand me, do not move faster for the sake of moving faster. You may not be able to move any faster, you would just have to see how it goes.

 

Each lesson is broken down into part A-F. A-C is practice on the new concept. D-F includes cummulative review. Basically, you do Practice A after watching the dvd and reading a short narrative in the teacher's text. If he makes a 100 (he totally gets it), then go on to part D to get the cummulative review. You do not want to skip D. You really do not want to skip E, F UNLESS he makes a 100 on D and he has seen some of this material in the algebra program you are in. Anyway, I am giving you a basic understanding of what I meant.

 

My dd14 is waiting on me...

[StaceyinLA]

I'm gonna hash all this out with ds and make a decision.

[AngieW in Texas]

Just because a program is great, doesn't mean it will work for your kid. I love KB and it has worked very well for my two older girls, but I don't know if I'll be able to get my youngest to even try it. So if it doesn't work for your ds, then it doesn't work for him. That happens. I love Miquon, but it didn't work for my youngest. I love Singapore too, but that only worked sporadically for my youngest. She's hard for me to fit with math programs.

 

Just so you know, they have been working on expanding their math offerings.

 

They released Algebra I in 2006, Algebra II in 2008, and Pre-algebra in 2010. They are planning to release Geometry in 2010 as well, right after Labor Day.

 

My big hope is that they will have Precalculus ready by the time my middle dd is ready for it (next schoolyear). I would love for her to keep going with KB (and she would love it too).

 

So while they don't have all of high school math yet, they are working on it.

[Brindee]

TT isn't spiral or incremental. It breaks the major concepts down into "chewable" chunks for the student, but it does eventually move on. Saxon's spiral method seems to be rather random, and TT does at least introduce the concepts in order, divided conceptually by chapter.

 

It is not a rigorous program, which is good for some, and not so good for others.

 

Well, TT are the ones who told me that their program is spiral. They didn't say it was incremental, just spiral.

I wasn't "poo-pooing" what you said, I was just saying what I've read in previous posts about TT. I should have clarified that, sorry!