Ester Maria would you mind explaining more...

[MIch elle]

The previous few posts are discouraging, but timely. My oldest is starting to look at PHD programs. She's a promising young researcher, but is also toying with Medicine or Law in the field of Biology. If not academia or research, then what?

 

Barb

 

Science is still a GREAT field to study and work in. It's for the bright and highly motivated. We will encourage our sons to pursuit science careers but not in academia.

 

Look at the science jobs at UMMS: https://www.hrapply.com/umm/AppJobList.jsp

 

Look at your state's job posting at its largest healthcare/research/medical center. This will help your dd in her career search before she commits to one area of study.

Edited August 27, 2010 by MIch elle

[melmichigan]

Ok, I took the time to read through the table of contents and glanced at the pages for the first nine chapters of the Nelson Thornes materials for 2011. I also looked at the preview pages for the Collins books for IGCSE biology. Am I missing something? I like the idea of integrated science but if this is representative of the whole it certainly seems very lacking in depth. What am I missing? :confused:

[Laura Corin]

The Collins book is, I would say, more of a pass-the-exam kind of book. I used the Longman book for the same course - we only used Collins for review.

 

ETA: I just had a look at the SAT II subject tests in biology. Although the syllabus was not exactly the same as for GCSE, the level of knowledge required seemed similar. The GCSE is a mixture of multiple choice and written answers, however, so the pupil has to be able to come up with unprompted knowledge. This is a link to past IGCSE biology papers, for comparison to the College Board examples. A college bound student would take papers 2H and 03.

 

To get a better idea of SAT Subject test levels in general, I completed the Chinese with listening test. Calvin just took Chinese GCSE, so I'm very familiar with it. The SAT test had slightly faster recordings for the listening, but the passages were longer and more complex in the GCSE. The GCSE also required the pupil to write in Chinese, including two short passages of continuous prose in characters.

 

Laura

Edited September 4, 2010 by Laura Corin

[melmichigan]

The Collins book is, I would say, more of a pass-the-exam kind of book. I used the Longman book for the same course - we only used Collins for review.

 

Where do the Spectrum books play into this scenario? I saw them listed on your blog. :)

[Laura Corin]

Where do the Spectrum books play into this scenario? I saw them listed on your blog. :)

 

I think there's something called Spectrum in the States too - I don't know what level that is. The UK Spectrum is nothing special.

 

Laura

[melmichigan]

I think there's something called Spectrum in the States too - I don't know what level that is. The UK Spectrum is nothing special.

 

Laura

 

Is this an example of the Longman books you are talking about? http://www.amazon.com/Longman-Physics-for-Igcse/dp/0435966901/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283639632&sr=8-4

 

Are they then the level I would be looking for? Are they the "high school"? I am so curious about a new secular science resource, especially one that isn't very expensive. ;)

[Laura Corin]

Is this an example of the Longman books you are talking about? http://www.amazon.com/Longman-Physics-for-Igcse/dp/0435966901/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283639632&sr=8-4

 

Are they then the level I would be looking for? Are they the "high school"? I am so curious about a new secular science resource, especially one that isn't very expensive. ;)

 

That book (and the equivalent biology and chemistry books) would be used for children heading for university. In a good school, the three sciences would be studied simultaneously from age 14 to 16, leading up to (I)GCSE exams, which are very roughly equivalent to SAT subject tests.

 

The student would then choose what five (or so) subjects to specialise in for the next two years leading to A level exams. Someone who was interested in science would do a further two years of each of the three sciences. Someone who was not interested in science might just do one more year of one science.

 

I would be a little wary of the Longman physics and chemistry books, because they will assume that you have access to a full lab with equipment. The Longman biology book was fine - we did some of the experiments and read about others - but physics and chemistry might be much more demanding.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[melmichigan]

I found it interesting in reading more about GCSE that with the 2011 changes teachers now have the option of teaching over 3 years, instead of two. From AQA "Recently more schools have become keen to run their GCSE Science courses over 3 years rather than 2. By starting unit 1 work in Year 9, this allows more time for assimilation, and possibly better final grades."

[Laura Corin]

I found it interesting in reading more about GCSE that with the 2011 changes teachers now have the option of teaching over 3 years, instead of two. From AQA "Recently more schools have become keen to run their GCSE Science courses over 3 years rather than 2. By starting unit 1 work in Year 9, this allows more time for assimilation, and possibly better final grades."

 

The middle school science curriculum is pretty thin (Calvin learned the essentials in a couple of months in order to go into school at 'high school' level) so it might make sense to spread the GCSE curriculum earlier. That would mean doing the three GCSE courses simultaneously over three years, rather than two.

 

Laura

[melmichigan]

The middle school science curriculum is pretty thin (Calvin learned the essentials in a couple of months in order to go into school at 'high school' level) so it might make sense to spread the GCSE curriculum earlier. That would mean doing the three GCSE courses simultaneously over three years, rather than two.

 

Laura

 

It's extremely thin in middle school in the states too.

[Roadrunner]

I know this is an old tread, but I read it last night and I couldn't resist. I like the idea of continuous science education since that's the way my school worked (Eastern Europe) and I think it yielded good results. I am struggling to figure out those of you who managed to replicate this model, what textbooks did you use? I started learning physics in 7th grade and my physics class continued until I graduated. I had a different textbook each year, which took account of what we learned last year and students growing maturity. I can't find anywhere in the U.S. physics textbooks for grade 7, then for grade 8, etc. (to pace it over the course of 3 years until a student takes math based higher level science classes).

I see a lot of people use Conceptual Physics, Conceptual Chemistry and Exploring Life for Biology. Do you think it's possible to take those textbooks (say beginning in 7th grade) and start all of them at once but pace it differently. For example, grade 7 you would go through 6 chapters (I am making numbers up) in each book, then in grade 8 follow up with ten more, etc. Are those books even written in a way that would allow this? If not, how else would you do it?

[Laura Corin]

I can't find anywhere in the U.S. physics textbooks for grade 7, then for grade 8, etc.

 

I don't think UK science education is particularly special, but sciences are (usually) separated out for high school. For 7th and 8th grade (years 8 and 9 or Key Stage 3/KS3) you would find mixed science (Galore Park is one option). For 9th and 10th grade you would be looking for separate physics, chemistry and bio GCSE books. For 11th and 12th grade you would want AS and A2 books. Bookdepository.co.uk ships to the US for free.

 

Laura

[elegantlion]

I know this is an old tread, but I read it last night and I couldn't resist. I like the idea of continuous science education since that's the way my school worked (Eastern Europe) and I think it yielded good results. I am struggling to figure out those of you who managed to replicate this model, what textbooks did you use? I started learning physics in 7th grade and my physics class continued until I graduated. I had a different textbook each year, which took account of what we learned last year and students growing maturity. I can't find anywhere in the U.S. physics textbooks for grade 7, then for grade 8, etc. (to pace it over the course of 3 years until a student takes math based higher level science classes).

I see a lot of people use Conceptual Physics, Conceptual Chemistry and Exploring Life for Biology. Do you think it's possible to take those textbooks (say beginning in 7th grade) and start all of them at once but pace it differently. For example, grade 7 you would go through 6 chapters (I am making numbers up) in each book, then in grade 8 follow up with ten more, etc. Are those books even written in a way that would allow this? If not, how else would you do it?

 

 

I'll have to go back and read through this thread, I probably posted in it originally. I plan on doing integrated science, more like the US approach of 12 weeks of physics, 12 weeks of chem, and then 12 weeks of bio. We're going to stretch it out over 3 years.

 

I've looked at a lot of texts, mostly online. I've picked ones that will work for my son and his interest level, so they may not be the best pick for everyone.

 

I'm still planning as we won't start until next year. My current plan is:

 

College Physics by Knight, Jones, Field - we will do the first unit the first year

Chemistry is still being decided - I will probably use the http://www.CK12.org free textbook, as ds wants something higher than Conceptual, but not quite at the Chang level. Probably do the first 9-10 chapters the first year.

Biology (his least favorite science) - The IGCSE Edexcel Biology mixed with a few other sources (undecided) I wouldn't use this for a child that wanted an in depth study of biology.

 

Here's an integrated text I've previewed:

 

NCERT books from India - you can download them free. You could check out the 6 or 7 grade levels to start with in middle school. I think they are integrated up to the 10th or 11th grade level.

 

I'm still at the planning phase for a lot of this, so I'm :bigear: as well.

[Roadrunner]

 

NCERT books from India - you can download them free.

 

WOW!

[JadeOrchidSong]

In the UK system, a college-bound student would study physics, chemistry and biology simultaneously (as well as some computing) from ages 14 to 16. Calvin's school timetable (he starts on Thursday) has three periods for each subject each week. The courses lead to exams which are very roughly the same level as a SAT subject test.

 

A pupil might drop sciences thereafter, or might take one of more science at a higher level from ages 16 to 18.

 

Laura

Same in China, but it will be all the way to end of high school.

[luvnlattes]

This is intriguing.

 

My question, which may be silly, is how will you list it on a transcript? My thought is something like Integrated Science I, Integrated Science II, etc. Any ideas how that will be viewed by colleges? Would it satisfy lab science requirements?

 

I'm new to all this as my oldest is 8th grade so please be patient with my rookie questions :).

[Roadrunner]

Integrated science is close, but not completely what I am talking about. Maybe. So, technically if the chapters don't build on each other (it shouldn't right? different subjects), then "my" model will be not 13 weeks one thing, then something else, but a mixed approach. This is what my schedule was about like beginning in 7th grade - biology (it was first botany, then a year of zoology, then a year of anatomy and then two years of general biology) twice a week, phisics twice a week and chemistry twice a week. So basically you have one day a week when you are working on two different sciences (although we used to have school 6 days a week, so I don't think it overlapped much). Imagine this schedule all the way through high school. I think this is better than studying one subject for a third of a year and then moving on to something else. I just can't figure out how I would duplicate something like this with existing textbooks on the market to account for increasing level of difficulty and maturity (say 7th grade versus 11th grade).

I also remember having geometry class for 3-4 years that ran concurrently with math (they didn't classify pre-algebra, algebra, I think) and covered what I believe is covered in one year in the U.S.

So basically how to do slow, steady, deep and consistent approach.

 

I have noooo idea how one would report this on a transcript.

[luvnlattes]

Integrated science is close, but not completely what I am talking about. Maybe. So, technically if the chapters don't build on each other (it shouldn't right? different subjects), then "my" model will be not 13 weeks one thing, then something else, but a mixed approach. This is what my schedule was about like beginning in 7th grade - biology (it was first botany, then a year of zoology, then a year of anatomy and then two years of general biology) twice a week, phisics twice a week and chemistry twice a week.

 

Okay, I see what you're saying. I guess my Integrated Science thought was based off of what Paula had written. Her approach is different from what you are talking about.

 

Thanks for your information. I'll have to read back through the thread.

[elegantlion]

Okay, I see what you're saying. I guess my Integrated Science thought was based off of what Paula had written. Her approach is different from what you are talking about.

 

Thanks for your information. I'll have to read back through the thread.

 

I plan on doing our transcript by subject, not year. So he'll have Physics, chemistry, and biology listed separately. They will all have labs of some sort, so I'll probably call it physics w/lab, etc. I don't expect an issue.

[besroma]

:bigear: