embarassed to admit this...(Latin)

[mo2]

Wheelock's Latin is kicking my butt. Apparently my grammar is much, much worse than I thought it was. I speak fine, I write fine, but I had no clue about dative, ablative, present perfect, pluperfect.....and so on. How can I brush up?

[tampamommy]

Does your local library have the Latin for Children series? Book B reviews case heavily. I'd also try doing online searches in both a browser and in youtube for free Latin tutorials. HTH

[Jane in NC]

My son's college recommends this for new Latin students as an accompaniment to Wheelock. Perhaps it could help?

[Ester Maria]

Wheelock's can be quite a "dense" text, but I still hold it one of the best - if not THE best - Latin textbooks available on the anglophone market. If I were you, I would make myself go through it and supplement it when needed with more "watered down" grammatical explanations. Also note that you can ask questions on this very forum, any time, any question, and most of the time somebody more knowledgeable will enlighten you, or try to help. It's okay not to know, it's not okay to persist in ignorance if this is an important area for you.

 

I would really advise you AGAINST doing what seems the most logical and the easiest option now - taking some easier curriculum aimed at children. Those curricula are probably the cause of the less-than-brilliant state of your Latin (and you wouldn't be the first case it happened!), and no problem can be cured by going back to them, only by relying yourself on "real", "serious" textbooks aimed at adult learners, even if it means that you'll have to cope with grammatical explanations of greater complexity.

 

I'd go slowly, but thoroughly. In your case it's not just about brushing up, it's about literally relearning the language and unlearning some of the mistakes you might have acquired by now. Divide the text in small, digestible chunks, of a size that YOU deem fit, and take one bite at the time, but daily. The most important thing is to get into a routine - and once you're there, ask questions, reach other people that learn or know Latin and little by little, you'll get there. :)

[mo2]

My son's college recommends this for new Latin students as an accompaniment to Wheelock. Perhaps it could help?

 

 

Thank you. I've added it to my next Amazon order.

[MommyThrice]

Wheelock's Latin is kicking my butt. Apparently my grammar is much, much worse than I thought it was. I speak fine, I write fine, but I had no clue about dative, ablative, present perfect, pluperfect.....and so on. How can I brush up?

 

I'm going to guess you're starting at the beginning? Here's my very elementary explanation (ie. feel free to correct my errors ;))

 

Latin nouns have five different case endings; ten if you include the plural forms. The closest English equivalent is in our use of pronouns, so I'll use pronouns for examples.

 

Nominitive: used for the subject

(singular - I hit the ball, plural - WE...)

Genitive : used for the possessive

(singular - MY ball, plural OUR...)

Dative: indirect object of "to" or "for"

(singular - Throw the ball to ME, plural - to US)

Accusative: direct object

(singular - The ball hit ME, plural - hit US)

Ablative: object of "by" "with" or "from"

(singular - The ball went by ME, plural - by US)

 

 

I would recommend a good grammar handbook like the Rod and Staff English Handbook to help with verb tenses, etc... But keep in mind that many grammar handbooks use the term "past perfect" instead of pluperfect. They mean the same thing. It took me a long time to figure that one out! :D

[mo2]

Wheelock's can be quite a "dense" text, but I still hold it one of the best - if not THE best - Latin textbooks available on the anglophone market. If I were you, I would make myself go through it and supplement it when needed with more "watered down" grammatical explanations. Also note that you can ask questions on this very forum, any time, any question, and most of the time somebody more knowledgeable will enlighten you, or try to help. It's okay not to know, it's not okay to persist in ignorance if this is an important area for you.

 

I would really advise you AGAINST doing what seems the most logical and the easiest option now - taking some easier curriculum aimed at children. Those curricula are probably the cause of the less-than-brilliant state of your Latin (and you wouldn't be the first case it happened!), and no problem can be cured by going back to them, only by relying yourself on "real", "serious" textbooks aimed at adult learners, even if it means that you'll have to cope with grammatical explanations of greater complexity.

 

I'd go slowly, but thoroughly. In your case it's not just about brushing up, it's about literally relearning the language and unlearning some of the mistakes you might have acquired by now. Divide the text in small, digestible chunks, of a size that YOU deem fit, and take one bite at the time, but daily. The most important thing is to get into a routine - and once you're there, ask questions, reach other people that learn or know Latin and little by little, you'll get there. :)

 

 

Thank you for the encouragement. I am learning on my own, and it is hard. I don't know anyone in real life who knows Latin, and it is difficult going on my own.

 

As far as Wheelock's is concerned, I have the text and the workbook. Is there anything else you would specifically recommend that might make it easier? Do you know anything about the book mentioned above?

[MommyThrice]

No, sorry. I've gone back to Henle. It's just easier for me to understand.

[Dee in MI]

The following link helped me get my brain around how Latin works. I don't recommend using the Dowling method. (I don't recommend against it. I just haven't tried it.) But the article is a pretty good intro to Latin.

 

Latin by the Dowling Method

[Ester Maria]

I don't recommend using the Dowling method.

Neither do I.

The article you linked is very well-written for those without the knowledge of grammar and thus can explain some points to a Latin newbie, but I chocked with laughter when reading the first sentence, which in itself is a very presumptious claim. No, it's NOT possible that that happens - not if you learn well. Unfortunately, in this era where intellectual laziness has become the norm I wouldn't be surprised it does happen in many places - which only means fewer places continue to teach Latin well and fewer people study Latin (and when they do study, they prefer videos and invented stories or even "better" - the blasphemy of completely transferring the language in our context and thus speaking a conlang based on Latin - as opposed to the actual, good old-faschioned learning). Those kind of articles really irk me, sorry for the rant. :D But yes, keeping in mind why you linked it, it is a rather good explanation.

 

@ OP: I don't know the book that Jane linked, but if you're not very comfortable with grammar in general, something of the kind might be a start.

Regarding additional materials, I'm actually not fond of those (not speaking of Wheelock's concretely, but more generally) - which is not to say that many people haven't found them useful, but they're just not my thing, not even workbooks or anything like that: I prefer plain text, concrete book, optimal pace and minimal cost.

If you find that workbooks, activities and similar work for you - that's great. Just make sure you don't end up distracted by those and thus prevented from studying. ;)

[mo2]

The following link helped me get my brain around how Latin works. I don't recommend using the Dowling method. (I don't recommend against it. I just haven't tried it.) But the article is a pretty good intro to Latin.

 

Latin by the Dowling Method

 

 

That article helped make sense of some of the grammar issues. And writing/memorizing the tables is probably a good idea. But I'm still going to use Wheelock's. ;)

[mo2]

Neither do I.

The article you linked is very well-written for those without the knowledge of grammar and thus can explain some points to a Latin newbie, but I chocked with laughter when reading the first sentence, which in itself is a very presumptious claim. No, it's NOT possible that that happens - not if you learn well. Unfortunately, in this era where intellectual laziness has become the norm I wouldn't be surprised it does happen in many places - which only means fewer places continue to teach Latin well and fewer people study Latin (and when they do study, they prefer videos and invented stories or even "better" - the blasphemy of completely transferring the language in our context and thus speaking a conlang based on Latin - as opposed to the actual, good old-faschioned learning). Those kind of articles really irk me, sorry for the rant. :D But yes, keeping in mind why you linked it, it is a rather good explanation.

 

@ OP: I don't know the book that Jane linked, but if you're not very comfortable with grammar in general, something of the kind might be a start.

Regarding additional materials, I'm actually not fond of those (not speaking of Wheelock's concretely, but more generally) - which is not to say that many people haven't found them useful, but they're just not my thing, not even workbooks or anything like that: I prefer plain text, concrete book, optimal pace and minimal cost.

If you find that workbooks, activities and similar work for you - that's great. Just make sure you don't end up distracted by those and thus prevented from studying. ;)

 

 

Thank you again. I enjoy reading your posts.

[Teachin'Mine]

Wheelock's Latin is kicking my butt. Apparently my grammar is much, much worse than I thought it was. I speak fine, I write fine, but I had no clue about dative, ablative, present perfect, pluperfect.....and so on. How can I brush up?

 

Mo2 I give you credit for even attempting to understand Latin! I took it in high school, but our course was probably light on grammar. My dd is doing Henle and I have no idea about the different declensions and tenses either. If it wasn't for an answer key, I'd have no idea if her answers were right or wrong. :001_huh: But she likes Latin and is doing well, so I'm okay with that. :D

 

We've recently gotten 501 verbs and just from looking through, it's a great book and reference tool. The other book we got is a dictionary which came highly recommended by Kareni. It's an amazing book and should help too. Here's the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Bantam-College-English-Dictionary-Revised/dp/055359012X/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281761504&sr=1-6 HTH

Edited August 24, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[mo2]

Mo2 I give you credit for even attempting to understand Latin! I took it in high school' date=' but our course was probably light on grammar. My dd is doing Henle and I have no idea about the different declensions and tenses either. If it wasn't for an answer key, I'd have no idea if her answers were right or wrong. :001_huh: But she likes Latin and is doing well, so I'm okay with that. :D

 

We've recently gotten 501 verbs and just from looking through, it's a great book and reference tool. The other book we got is a dictionary which came highly recommended by Kareni. It's an amazing book and should help too. Here's the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Bantam-College-English-Dictionary-Revised/dp/055359012X/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281761504&sr=1-6 HTH[/quote']

 

 

Thanks. Let's just say I'm glad I'm starting Latin years before my kids will be ready....I think it's going to take me that long!

[flyingiguana]

You might try to find some additional reading. It's hard to get grammatical concepts fixed in the mind if you don't see it in context. 38 Latin Stories is good (if you don't already have it) and follows Wheelock's pretty closely. Cambridge Latin is more of a reading based curriculum, which might be useful as a supplement. It doesn't follow the introduction of grammar in the same order as Wheelock's, but it's still helpful. (Actually, there are plenty of teachers who swear by Cambridge Latin as the sole text, although you might want to supplement it with a little more grammar.)

 

The colleges around us are no longer using Wheelock. They've switched to Latin for a New Millennium and Ecce Romani. I haven't seen these books myself, but there must be some reason for the switch. Personally, I find Wheelock to be a better reference than an actual teaching method. It may work fine if you have reading supplementation and a good teacher, but on its own, particularly in the later chapters, it doesn't even bother to explain things. And one can't get the information through inference because there are too few sample sentences and many of them can be translated in a variety of conflicting ways. There are a lot of people who swear by Wheelock, but they often learned Latin in a classroom setting with a teacher who knew the language.

 

As with learning all languages on my own, though, I don't think there's any one method/book that does it all. I've had to cobble things together, so that when one resource doesn't bother to explain something, I can go look it up somewhere else.

[asta]

There are a bazillion resources for Wheelocks offered right on their site.

 

It sounds like you might benefit from this one: Dr J’s Grammar Review and Drill for Wheelock (6th ed.)

 

 

a

[mo2]

It sounds like you might benefit from this one: Dr J’s Grammar Review and Drill for Wheelock (6th ed.)

 

 

a

 

Hey thanks! That looks awesome.

[Michelle in MO]

Dale Grote's book, A Comprehensive Guide to Wheelock's Latin is the book which I would recommend that you use, in conjunction with a slow and thorough review of Wheelock's. Grote does an excellent job of rephrasing the more difficult concepts in Wheelock's. I generally would read the chapter first in Wheelock's, review the vocabulary and paradigms, and then read Grote's chapter. Often I would re-read the chapter in Wheelock's again. I think if you use this resource, in addition to the one Jane recommended (which I also own and have used), you will be able to better cement the concepts in your memory.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Michelle in MO