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Deschooling my 13yo dd - incomplete work - HELP!


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Ok, for those who havent read any of my recent posts, this is the first year we are homeschooling my stepdd. She is 13 and in the 8th grade this year. I also have 3 younger boys (2, 8, and 10) that have never been to ps, so this is a whole new experience for me.

 

She has never been a strong student and will tell anyone who asks that she hates school - anything related to school. She is also on the messy/disorganized side and can be very lazy. We just finished our 3rd week of our new year, and I sat down to grade things and enter them into HST+ to see where we were.

 

She has been half-finishing assignments, "losing them", and not even attempting others. Some of the curriculum we have chosen is challenging for her, but she knows I am right there to help her figure it out, but she also knows I will not do the work for her. The first week, I took her word for it that things were done and found out at the end of the week there were a few things that she didn't do. The second week, I asked her throughout the day - did you get abc done yet? Don't forget you are supposed to finish def today! Still with some unfinished work. this past week I thought we were doing pretty good. I had given her a short list of make-up work she needed to get to, she did about half of it. Then she didn't do/lost a few new ones through the week. I sat down Friday before I released her for free time, and went through everything in her planner and checked things off as I could see they were finished. She did complete 2 assignments she had missed.

 

By now, it is too late to make up any of the work from weeks 1 and 2, so I am trying to focus on making sure she gets things done DAILY. I want her to take responsibility for getting things done, but I think I am beginning to realize that after years of being 1 in a class of 25+ kids and getting away with missing assignments all the time, this is going to be a hard habit to break. i guess this is all a part of the deschooling process?

 

Is it too much for me to tell her what to do and then check it before she moves on? i don't want her to feel like I am treating her like a baby, but it's super important that we do this right.

 

I was thinking of something along the lines of: Ok, first thing I want you to do your math. The assinment is written here in your book, Make sure you do the mental math and the lesson practice after you are done watching your lesson. Today you are to do the odds. When you are finished, bring your work to me so I can look it over and then I will tell you what I want you to do next.

 

Is this too much? Anyone have a better approach?

 

I also think it's important to note here that with our situation, there is a third party (her mom) that is not crazy about homeschooling. She wants to be sure dd is doing well in this learning environment and that it is giving her better learning opportunites than ps has in the past. She is in agreeance with dd's decision (it was her choice to hs this year because she will be moving with us in the Spring out of state - army move) but very much wanting to see results.

 

HELP!!

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Not too much to require her to turn each assignment in to you and to cross it off. It doesn't have to be a "I don't trust you thing" but a "I need these turned in so that I don't get behind in my grading and so that we can catch things that need to be worked on together." You are grading her work, right? I don't mean assigning a letter grade but going over it to make sure that she understands what she's doing. I've found with ds13 that if I put off the grading too long (and believe me I've dug myself into some deep holes that way) that it is really hard to go back and pick up that math concept that he didn't just get or that history assignment that needs to be corrected.

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I had exactly the same thing when we pulled our (then) 13yo DS from school, and I tell you, I wish I had been much stricter about it then and I'm still paying for my laxness.

I would insist on the days work being finished in the day, the day is not over until it's finished and HANDED TO YOU. Don't take her word, check. And check for a long time, don't get lax about it.

 

I do think handing over responsibility is important, but you have a few years in which to acheive that, so for now I would make it your responsibility and hand over as she is ready. Our major mistake was doing so too early.

 

Whether you give her a list of work and she can choose the order, or you sit down together and come up with a timetable is up to you.

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My 12yo has to finish all his work before he can do anything else. I will make him re-do it if it is really bad - mostly incomplete, didn't read and follow instructions, etc. He only had one day this week where he didn't get to go anywhere and he knew it was his own fault, so there wasn't much of a fight.

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Different kids are different. A LOT of 13yos who are homeschooled all the way through can't be handed a week worth of assignments to read and do (and then there is the discussion about whether this SHOULD occur) and have it all completed correctly. Even in college, you would GO to class, check understanding/assignments, turn something in, etc two or three times in a week! Most jobs even expect a little more checking up than that.

 

Now, it's perfectly fine for you to choose that you want to get to that point. I would start with her bringing the assignment to you for a spot-check (so you can catch any issues and keep up with the grading). Then in time, it could be, a day's worth. In time a week's worth with a check-off list visible (we used a white board for years; ds uses the planner from Donna Young).

 

At some point you may be able to sit down and discuss the goals for a time period (week, month, whatever). By the end of my daughter's homeschooling, we'd sit down and do this for her materials. Then we set up check points. We'd have a date to see if she's meeting her goals. Of course, she could come to me any time if she needed to change things up, needed help (well, by this point she was a bit beyond me in many things), etc. With classes she took with other people, I NEVER checked up. I heard her feedback along the way, got grade reports, etc (tests at the college, report cards at the private school, whatever at co-op). It was her business. These started at 13. She's almost 18 and is a sophomore in college (should move up in ranking next term). We've had a few times we've discussed her lack of responsibility in terms of her schoolwork. She had a rough beginning to full time college due to a situation there and it's taken her a year to recover, but she's well on her way.

 

Anyway, so it is possible to work your way up, but please don't feel you're catching up with any of us. If you polled at the high school board, I think you'd see that most of us have to keep some handle on our high schoolers.

 

ETA: You might look over at the other thread about this topic (slow/distractable 8yo).

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Different kids are different. A LOT of 13yos who are homeschooled all the way through can't be handed a week worth of assignments to read and do (and then there is the discussion about whether this SHOULD occur) and have it all completed correctly. Even in college, you would GO to class, check understanding/assignments, turn something in, etc two or three times in a week! Most jobs even expect a little more checking up than that.

 

Now, it's perfectly fine for you to choose that you want to get to that point. I would start with her bringing the assignment to you for a spot-check (so you can catch any issues and keep up with the grading). Then in time, it could be, a day's worth. In time a week's worth with a check-off list visible (we used a white board for years; ds uses the planner from Donna Young).

 

At some point you may be able to sit down and discuss the goals for a time period (week, month, whatever). By the end of my daughter's homeschooling, we'd sit down and do this for her materials. Then we set up check points. We'd have a date to see if she's meeting her goals. Of course, she could come to me any time if she needed to change things up, needed help (well, by this point she was a bit beyond me in many things), etc. With classes she took with other people, I NEVER checked up. I heard her feedback along the way, got grade reports, etc (tests at the college, report cards at the private school, whatever at co-op). It was her business. These started at 13. She's almost 18 and is a sophomore in college (should move up in ranking next term). We've had a few times we've discussed her lack of responsibility in terms of her schoolwork. She had a rough beginning to full time college due to a situation there and it's taken her a year to recover, but she's well on her way.

 

Anyway, so it is possible to work your way up, but please don't feel you're catching up with any of us. If you polled at the high school board, I think you'd see that most of us have to keep some handle on our high schoolers.

 

ETA: You might look over at the other thread about this topic (slow/distractable 8yo).

 

:iagree: I work with my ds twice a day. I actually *teach* him and then give him work to do on his own. Three of his classes are online (outsourced) so I just hold him accountable for getting it done (they are self-paced, but there is a pacing guide.)

 

I don't know that we will *ever* get to a "here's your weekly list see you Friday" kind of set-up. I know a lot of people are succesful with that, but I think teaching/interaction if very important.

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You are grading her work, right? I don't mean assigning a letter grade but going over it to make sure that she understands what she's doing.

 

Yes, I am grading her work. Because her Mom has requested a weekly progress report, I am using HST+ and giving letter grades for her assignments. A lot of things like notebooking and reading assignments don't get a point value, but I still enter them into tracker and mark them as complete. I would love to grade her work as she finishes, but with 2 other students (one who is moving towards a lot of independence and the other who still requires Mom at the elbow most of the day) I find it hard to do.

I would insist on the days work being finished in the day, the day is not over until it's finished and HANDED TO YOU. Don't take her word, check. And check for a long time, don't get lax about it.

 

This is our policy, however there have been days when I have been too busy to actually go through the work and check it. Those are the days we end up with unfinished work. I am going to have to find a way to institute a daily check-in with her before she is released from school for the day.

 

Different kids are different. A LOT of 13yos who are homeschooled all the way through can't be handed a week worth of assignments to read and do (and then there is the discussion about whether this SHOULD occur) and have it all completed correctly

 

As far as how we plan for the week, I printed off a bunch of weekly lesson plan forms (2pp) for each of my kids and comb-bound them into assignment books for each kiddo. Each weekend, I fill these out in pencil for the entire week. When Monday rolls around, they go through that days assigned work and check it off as they finish. My 10yo ds never has problems with this, he knows not to check something off until it's done. For some reason, I think she may be checking things off that are NOT yet done. There are two columns there and I think I will use one for them to check off, and one for a place for mom to check off that I have seen the completed work and it can then be officially considered finished.

 

 

I work with my ds twice a day. I actually *teach* him and then give him work to do on his own.

 

Dd does about half of her work independently. First thing in the morning, we sit down together and go through Art of Argument (Logic) and Latin Alive. We do the Latin exercises on the board together and she copies them onto her notebook. She has never studied a foreign language, so I want to make sure she gets the assignments and understands the new concepts, so we do them together. I also "teach" her Rod & Staff english lessons (she is doing r&s 6) most of the time unless it is an easy concept for her that she is already familiar with. For math, we use the Saxon teacher cd-roms. As she goes through her mixed practice, I have the solutions manual handy so I can help her with any difficult problems. She also likes to know if she did certain problems correctly before moving on. For history (TOG) we have a discussion time at the end of each week, before the evaluation, to make sure we have covered all the necessary material and tie everything we are learning together.

 

Most of her other work she does independently. EX: Science. We are doing BJU SPace & Earth science 8. She reads a few sections and does the section review questions and any related worksheets. She hasn't been doing well at all in Science so yesterday as I was preparing her work for the week, i went through with the test in hand and made a study guide, with questions for each day's reading. Some of these I took directly from the test, some came from the section review questions, some are vocabulary related. My goal is for her to be able to use the study guide at the end of the chapter to prepare for the test. She has trouble identifying the important information in a reading passage, so I am hoping this will train her eye so to speak. It's also handy to have all the info down on paper in one place.

 

Thank you ladies for sharing your advice and encouragement. I feel so much better and now feel like I am well-armed for the coming week.

 

Keep the suggestions coming!

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How are you "deschooling" her? My understanding of that term is that a kid comes out of structured school environment and decompresses at home for a bit following their own lead until they ease into homeschooling. Maybe I'm confused on that. Are you wanting to "deschool" her or start homeschooling? Maybe SHE is confused, too?

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Just a thought. She's always been a poor student, and probably has terrible self esteem along with all the other habits that you mentioned. It might help her more to give her a curriculum in which she can succeed and see some progress, rather than starting out with one which is challenging. Then if the work is easier, you can more easily expect her to complete the assignments and do "better" work.

 

But I think that de-schooling first might be a good way to go. There's all different ways to learn. Field trips to museums, reading aloud, playing games, all of those things can help her to begin to enjoy "school". Your other children are young enough that doing this shouldn't negatively impact their own education - they'll probably enjoy the break too. :) It would be great if you could all work on becoming a team and then the school work will come easier no matter what curriculum you use.

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1)I too am unclear about your use of the word deschooling. Deschooling is usually used to mean decompress from guided education & that means NO assignments/homework/workbooks/assigned reading etc.

 

2) Are you actually teaching her? One of the things that I see is a lot of people just hand a kid a book & say 'read that & do the assignment' HONESTLY? I think that for most kids that is a huge disservice & they'd be better off in school where a teacher at least presents 30 min of info & teaches a lesson. Some kids can handle this level of self-directed learning, but many kids can't. They either need a lesson, or a 'tutorial' which is an opportunity to talk about what they've read & orally go over the assignments.

 

3) there was a story in one of the WTM editions about SWB falling behing in an online or distance ed? course & JW realizing that she needed more guidance with scheduling & more assistance with someone helping her stay on track. And IIRC, SWB was older than 13 in that story.....

 

I think it's normal for her to need more hand holding at this age, esp if she's new to homeschooling & not self-directed or an auto-didact.

 

best wishes ~

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I don't know this child, of course, and there are kids who are simply lazy and try to cut corners on their work. But there are also kids who have pretty serious problems with organization on a whole number of levels -- and still have them as adults. My husband is like this. He is a careful, thorough, methodical worker, but he is physically incredibly disorganized and has trouble doing work on deadline. My daughter is also physically and spatially disorganized, loses things ALL THE TIME, has trouble figuring out how to keep things orderly. When she went to private school for several months she would come home with papers crumpled and scrunched and torn -- papers she cared about, which received A's -- and she struggled to figure out how to keep teacher handouts and schedules in order.

 

If you suspect this could be at work in your case, there are a few books about helping middle school-aged kids to organize themselves and their work. The one I liked was The Organized Student by Donna Goldberg; there's also one called Smart But Scattered by Peg Dawson. Just a thought.

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I was thinking about this thread and realized that as someone else mentioned that my ds13, while he is quite independent in his work in some ways, does need direct teaching some subjects and some assignments. I would take the fact that she's not doing some subjects and hiding that from you to mean that those things are too hard for her to do on her own right now. I would probably sit down with her and do those assignments orally, or perhaps leave more time to do them, or walk her through how to do them, or leave them off all together. In other words, you need to sit down and figure out what really is best for her right now because you're not going to be able to just guess at what she needs in order to really learn and be successful.

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I pulled my ds out of ps halfway through 4th grade. He had the same organizational issues. He would randomly stuff crumpled-up papers in his desk, folders, and his backpack. I would ask him if he needed to do the work or not, if it was already done, if it was already graded ... he never had any idea. When I brought him home, I discovered that he needed lots and lots of hand-holding.

 

We do one subject at a time and don't move on until the work is complete. At the end of the school day, he is responsible for putting all the books and notebooks away in the correct place. This is all that is expected of him at this point. I will gradually add in more responsibility.

 

Since she has had limited success in ps and you are trying to "deschool," you might also consider making the work a liitle less challanging for her. This could help build her confidence and you could put more focus on those pesky organizational skills.

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1)I too am unclear about your use of the word deschooling. Deschooling is usually used to mean decompress from guided education & that means NO assignments/homework/workbooks/assigned reading etc.

 

2) Are you actually teaching her? One of the things that I see is a lot of people just hand a kid a book & say 'read that & do the assignment' HONESTLY? I think that for most kids that is a huge disservice & they'd be better off in school where a teacher at least presents 30 min of info & teaches a lesson. Some kids can handle this level of self-directed learning, but many kids can't. They either need a lesson, or a 'tutorial' which is an opportunity to talk about what they've read & orally go over the assignments.

 

3) there was a story in one of the WTM editions about SWB falling behing in an online or distance ed? course & JW realizing that she needed more guidance with scheduling & more assistance with someone helping her stay on track. And IIRC, SWB was older than 13 in that story.....

 

I think it's normal for her to need more hand holding at this age, esp if she's new to homeschooling & not self-directed or an auto-didact.

 

best wishes ~

 

I guess when a say deschooling, I actually mean reschooling, lol. Meaning getting her used to learning in a new way in a new environment etc.

 

I am doing a lot of teaching with her. Some of the assignments she's missing are Science, which she has a hard time with. When I sat down to do her prep yesterday I tried something different. I compiled a study guide based from the questions that will be in the chapter test and other important things I want her to "get" from the reading.

 

She is also missing a few math assignments, which is also a tough subject for her. She is doing Saxon with the teacher cd's. She does her lesson and the messon practice independently, then watches the lesson practice problems worked out on the cd. Then as she does her mixed practice, i sit with her (solutions manual in hand) and help her as needed. There have been a few instances where I wasn't able to do this (teaching/working with/ helping the other kiddos) and I'm wondering if these were the times she had incomplete assignments?

 

With 3 other kids in the house (one who is 2) it's really hard to sit down with her throughout the entire schoolday, but I feel like I am doing a decent job of being available for those subjects she needs guidance with. I just think the major issue is trying to break old habits.

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Just a thought. She's always been a poor student' date=' and probably has terrible self esteem along with all the other habits that you mentioned. It might help her more to give her a curriculum in which she can succeed and see some progress, rather than starting out with one which is challenging. Then if the work is easier, you can more easily expect her to complete the assignments and do "better" work.

 

But I think that de-schooling first might be a good way to go. There's all different ways to learn. Field trips to museums, reading aloud, playing games, all of those things can help her to begin to enjoy "school". Your other children are young enough that doing this shouldn't negatively impact their own education - they'll probably enjoy the break too. :) It would be great if you could all work on becoming a team and then the school work will come easier no matter what curriculum you use.[/quote']

 

I would LOVE to be able to do something like this but it just isnt an option right now, with her mother keeping a close eye on our progress. Especially since she has quite a bit of catching up to do from 4 years of struggling through ps. I am focusing on moving through the material she needs help with at a slower pace and making sure she is filling all those little gaps that have been left from 8 years of public schools passing her through when she probably should have been held back. Next year is high school and we really have to be sure we get things done in a timely manner so she doesn't end up not graduating when she should.

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I would actually teach her the science, and with math, I'd have her start with you, doing the mental math box (is it a colored box at the start of each lesson? Not sure of her level, and I've only used up to 7/8) together. Then let her see the dvd, and then check her understanding. THEN have her do the practice problems. THEN set the problems for her to do, and check in with her after 10 or so problems.

 

So, IOW, go back and forth between kids A LOT for a few weeks, and gradually give her a little more independence, but don't expect to hand her a text and let her have at it, because that doesn't seem to work for her at this point. The science, in particular, seems to overwhelm her--

 

It may seem like more than you can do, and it may add to the length of your day, but I think you should make her a priority and give your other kiddos time outside the normal time frame, i.e., maybe let her go home (is she living with you?) or finish school a half hour before the others are done--Maybe have the others do some chores or practice an instrument, or something, while you focus on her for math or science.

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I would actually teach her the science, and with math, I'd have her start with you, doing the mental math box (is it a colored box at the start of each lesson? Not sure of her level, and I've only used up to 7/8) together. Then let her see the dvd, and then check her understanding. THEN have her do the practice problems. THEN set the problems for her to do, and check in with her after 10 or so problems.

 

So, IOW, go back and forth between kids A LOT for a few weeks, and gradually give her a little more independence, but don't expect to hand her a text and let her have at it, because that doesn't seem to work for her at this point. The science, in particular, seems to overwhelm her--

 

It may seem like more than you can do, and it may add to the length of your day, but I think you should make her a priority and give your other kiddos time outside the normal time frame, i.e., maybe let her go home (is she living with you?) or finish school a half hour before the others are done--Maybe have the others do some chores or practice an instrument, or something, while you focus on her for math or science.

 

Ok, I will try doing Science with her this week and see how that works out.

 

Yes, she lives with us, technically we share custody, but she is here wayy more than her moms. We are moving out of state come spring (our first army move) and she is moving with us :)

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