Has the term "gifted" been marginalized?

[SailorMom]

ADHD has been so overdiagnosed that it's become more of a generic label for hyper kids than anything else. Not to say that there aren't ADHD kids with a legitmate medical need, because there are certainly many. QUOTE]

 

:iagree:

[EKS]

Not sure where it came from. I've read it so many times that I suppose there's info somewhere that backs it up, though I don't have the internet right now (I'm actually at the laundromat) and I don't have time to go dig up a link. It's certainly true in my own experience, and among many of the people I know.

 

I've read that it is a myth.

[zaichiki]

I've read that it is a myth.

 

:D

[delaney]

In my school district they pull out the over achieving teacher pleasers that get really good grades. For me that is NOT what gifted is. It is the low achieving, bored student who skirts the rules hates the norm. Truly gifted children are few and far between but it seems in our schools that if you have certain last names by golly the whole dang family is gifted!!! Seriously? What are the chances? Sounds like good genes is more in play. It really has been an overused label. I was labeled gifted in school and I'm not. Is my IQ high? yes, like 140 something. I'm just smart and a teacher pleaser but I don't think outside the box. I like standardized tests and logic, have a knack for math and music, I never studied and graduated college with honors. I just don't see myself with the like of the truly gifted.

[ShutterBug]

My oldest can play something on the piano by listening to it one time. I have a friend who's 10 year old is doing calculus. They are of average ability in all other academic aspects of their lives and do not possess any social anxieties. Are they gifted or just gifted in those particular skills?

 

 

 

It sounds like your dc and your friend's dc are both talented in a particular area.

 

I see the key factor in gifted/genius people is not just intelligence...not just ability, talent or skill, but the addition of extreme creativity..whether it be in math, science, language or the arts.

 

There are a lot of folks with high intelligence.

 

There are a lot of people with a talent or skill.

 

There are not many people who have these things and then have the extreme creativity that when combined with the previous two, come together in a genius way to create amazing works. DaVinci, Einstein, Edison, Shakespeare, Newton, Hypatia, G.W. von Leibniz, Curie, Agnesi, Kovalevskaya, Fischer, von Goethe...these are the true gifted, the true genius.

 

The kid down the street who has a knack for math and is working a few grade levels ahead..not so much.

[momtotkbb]

This has been an interesting discussion. If you are curious as to IQ scores and the classification of gifted you can look here: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

 

In our state we have a gifted mandate ---my oldest attended ps and the gifted mandate was a godsend for him. In our district w/out a gifted label (which required an IQ score in the 98%tile or above) kids were kept out of honors courses once they got to Middle school/high school. So in our case it was the one thing I fought for ---on the group administered IQ test he didn't score as well bec it was paper/pencil. But, we already had a private psychoeducational eval that placed his IQ in the 98%tile in the exceptionally gifted range. He had skipped K5 and 1st-2nd I had sent weekly folders of extra types of work, continued to read non-stop to him at home, get him science kits, books on tape, take him on field trips, etc. I knew that I had to get him in GT class so that he could go honors in middle school.

 

A previous poster asked if schools had programs or were equipped to work w/ twice exceptional --in my experience NO. My oldest ds's actual dx is exceptionally gifted/ADD-inattentive/LD - dyslexic/dysgraphic and no the school didn't have any idea how to handle that --thankfully my degree was Spec Ed and I could put together a program that addressed his giftedness for the ps.

 

By the time my next two came along I had looked into hsing and we decided that was an easier option than the ps. I really didn't expect to have any others dx --but so far I have two more all w/ twice exceptional dx. There are many day I would give anything to have "average" --whatever that is.

 

I do think gifted, LD, ADHD means something different to different people ---for me I only use the label if I need to explain my dc or to get them what they need and only bec I have a formal eval that classifies them as such.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Okay I just read through the hoagies site and also this site http://borntoexplore.org/gifted.htm. Along with all of the discussion on this thread I get it now. I understand the need for these labels in certain cases and I understand the variations in the use of the word gifted. I also understand the mis-use of these labels. This is from the site I linked above:

How is "Gifted" Defined? There is no consensus as to how "gifted" should be defined, except everyone seems to agree that people with an IQ of 130 or greater are definitely gifted. But people with lower overall IQs can also be gifted by other avenues:

 

 

• Creative-Gifted: Demonstrated creativity or high score on the Torrence Creativity test (above an IQ of 120 there is no correlation between IQ and creativity scores);
  
• Demonstration of exceptional skills in a domain, like math or art;
  
• Visual-Spatial thinkers are often gifted but may score below their actual level of intelligence on IQ tests (very high abstract reasoning, visual-spatial skills);
  
• Sometimes "gifted" is defined as the smartest two percent, which correlates to an IQ of 125.
  

 

The fuzzy nature of the term "gifted" is apparent when one considers an idiot savant who cannot handle simple math but is a gifted pianist.

 

Now what I am really curious about is what is (if any)the correlation between gifted, and dyslexia, ADHD, LD, social anxiety, or etc.? So far, from what I've read on this thread it seems that many children that have been clinically dx with some form of giftedness, have also been diagnosed with some type of learning disability. Twice exceptional...is that the correct term?

 

Is is that many times the behavior of a gifted person manifests itself in ways that seem like ADHD or LD? Perhaps a child that is highly artistic can't understand math not because of a LD but because she is visual-spatial and sees things in a completely different way. It's alot to wrap your brain around. I can see why it would be crucial to have a really good, thorough, reliable diagnosis done in order to determine how to help this child. And you certainly wouldn't want to assume that your child has ADD just because he exhibits those tendencies. What if you were medicating for that and it turned out that what you thought were ADD symptoms were just systemic of the giftedness? Or you did the opposite?:confused:

 

This has been a real education for me. I'm going to research this farther. Thanks for all the participation.

[Tap]

I think it means little outside of a clinical analysis. In our area the 'gifted' program at the area schools means they are in a special class that is one year ahead of their peers. Okay....well that doesn't mean much to me when you have average kids in a regular classroom who may be 12mths apart in age already. In our area, kids entering kindergarten this year can be born anytime August 31, 2004 to September 1, 2005. So, technically anyone with a summer birthday is already in a 'challenge class' compared to the those with a fall birthday. lol

 

To me, the benefit of the Challenge program in our area has less to do with the academics offered and more to do with the teachers being able to deal with a child's maturity while doing the same work as the next age group. ie Dealing with a 3rd graders maturity but doing 4th grade work. They are also open a bit more to letting kids think outside the box.

 

These aren't 'gifted' traits to me, these are normal bright kids who aren't being taught at an appropriate level in the classroom.

 

 

 

I agree with other posters who said basically, that gifted is a huge noticeable difference, not just ahead of the pack. I know truly gifted people, and I sometimes see that they have a hard time explaining themselves to 'regular folk' because they can't even think on the normal level to explain what they are talking about. They seem to 'see' ideas beyond our language's limitations. They see things that we don't even have words for thus, they can't describe what they see or maybe even know to be true. The imbalance between their mind and the outer world is immense and most of us mortals within this world, are ignorant beyond measure to them.

[Mom0012]

First of all, that middle part is totally Whacked!

 

 

I think that the actual term of "gifted" is the problem. It implies something else. It implies some sort of superiority. I wish there was a more precise word that explained it better. If people who are not "gifted" themselves or the parents of gifted kids knew the downsides that can come with that higher IQ, they might not be so quick to want to jump on board.

 

I have to get off this thing. ;)

 

good night!

 

:iagree: I think this explains the negative connotations that so many people have to the term. I don't know what would be better, but it's too bad that something other than gifted wasn't chosen.

 

And, yes, it does seem like everywhere I go, half the children are gifted. Then again, the other half are learning disabled.

 

Lisa

[Renee in NC]

This is definitely not entirely true. While the services available under the label "gifted" vary widely in their usefulness, some labels can be important to open doors to services not otherwise available to children whose parents have limited financial resources.

 

Special education services under IDEA (which does not include the category of gifted) can be extensive and expensive. Labels open doors to those services.

 

:iagree:

[zaichiki]

What if you were medicating for that and it turned out that what you thought were ADD symptoms were just systemic of the giftedness?

 

Some kids can be a real puzzle. For a long time I suspected my oldest has some sort of attention issue (ADD perhaps?). As a preschool/Kindergarten- aged child he could NOT sit still unless he was reading. He would hyperfocus on his areas of interest, but I couldn't hold his attention for a conversation much of the time. He would run wildly around a gymnasium and play roughly for hours until I physically "caught" him or until he practically dropped. He had IQ testing done and the psychologist suggested further testing to get more information about certain things (subtest scatter and suspected attention issues). We didn't pursue it.

 

Well, he went to school --6th grade -- for the first time last year and had no trouble (behavioral, attention, organizational skills). It did take him about 4 weeks to get into the habit of remembering his homework, organizing his locker, and bringing the right supplies to each class (for a while I really felt this was proof of possible ADD). But it took 4 weeks and then he was fine. Totally on his own. He organized himself to complete his own homework each night (and/or set his alarm to complete it in the morning while we all slept). He got himself ready for school independently. His grades and teacher comments were nothing but wonderful. I realized ds could not have ADD. Whatever challenges he deals with are likely the overexcitabilities that often come with giftedness.

 

http://www.stephanietolan.com/dabrowskis.htm

 

Sometimes gifted kids may be mislabeled due to these overexcitabilities, but I know there are those out there who are not mislabeled. In our case, the overexcitabilities are fairly extreme -- enough to make a mother suspect a child has some other issues. Enough that I might have considered medication. (Looking back I am glad I did not.)

 

The most challenging aspect of raising a gifted child in my family is the overexcitabilities.

[MyThreeSons]

I'd say that in the pubLic schools around here, well over half of the kids are in some sort of gifted program.

 

When I was in school, I was in two gifted programs.

 

In elementary school, they pulled out the gifted 5th and 6th graders -- one classroom, combined grades, for the whole school district, which had 7 elementary schools. There were no more than 2 students per grade per school. And it was a separate, full time program -- all subjects, all day, every day.

 

In high school, there was a single period set aside each day for the gifted class. There was one class of juniors/seniors, and one class of freshmen/sophomores. There were maybe 12-15 of us in each class, out of 300+ students in each grade level.

 

In short, the definition of gifted is much broader these days.

[ktgrok]

WOW...thanks for that link!!! I totally recognized myself, and my son. The part about limping like your leg is broken when there is a wrinkle in your sock cracked me up...my poor poor mother! And those of you that read of my misery watching Walking with Dinosaurs know my over emotional traits. The imaginary friends (I had several, an imaginary best friend named Zero, imaginary twin girls named Juicy Juice and Juicy Fruit that lived in imaginary bunk beds, an an imaginary mouse that lived in my bathroom and would use the faucet of the sink for a slide), the over reation to sensory stimulation (I can almost explode with the joy of a breeze on my cheek), the extreme emotions (I will sit up at night worrying about homeless people and animals on a cold night, or not be able to sleep because I am so happy with my family)...it's all me. Just wow. I almost want to send it to my mother who was sooooo worried about me all my life because I was so different. She thought I was miserable, but I was happy, just different.

[radiobrain]

In my school district they pull out the over achieving teacher pleasers that get really good grades. For me that is NOT what gifted is. It is the low achieving, bored student who skirts the rules hates the norm. Truly gifted children are few and far between but it seems in our schools that if you have certain last names by golly the whole dang family is gifted!!! Seriously? What are the chances? Sounds like good genes is more in play. It really has been an overused label. I was labeled gifted in school and I'm not. Is my IQ high? yes, like 140 something. I'm just smart and a teacher pleaser but I don't think outside the box. I like standardized tests and logic, have a knack for math and music, I never studied and graduated college with honors. I just don't see myself with the like of the truly gifted.

 

The lowest rung (the mildly gifted) of gifted is also the largest population. So, yes, technically they are gifted but they aren't really as noticeably so as ones with higher IQs. The higher the IQ the fewer there are. It does not mean that they don't have needs that should be met. Also gifted girls tend to internalize all this much more than boys (maybe not anymore! ) as generally there is that phase of "dumbing down" with girls where they want to just fit in. So to you, a kid might not seem gifted... but you can't see what they are thinking and what they are internalizing, so you have no clue.

 

Now, you might not see yourself as gifted, but your statement proves that you are. Your personality (and whatever other factors went into it) did not lead you down the more obvious or commonly assumed "ability to think outside the box", that's all. All "gifted/hyper cranial" people are different. Being able to do honors work w/o studying is not normal. It proves that you are, even if you don't accept it. I was able to get a 31 on my ACT without studying, preparing, caring and on 2 hours of sleep. That is just what I was able to do. Other people can study like crazy, try really hard and get mediocre grades and average to low scores. Your brain does work differently because your IQ is higher. It doesn't give you any magic ability, though. My ACT score could have got me into any number of colleges, where I would have promptly dropped out, as I wasn't able to work within that system.

[asta]

Regarding giftedness, I believe the word originally meant to have natural abilities beyond those of the average person. Hence, the gift part of the word. Nothing that a person worked for, just what I would call a God-given ability.

 

 

DS came home one day from from a friend's house and wrote out Einstein's concept of how gravity works according to the theory of curved space. He was ten. He'd read a description in a book and "noticed" it while jumping with several balls on the trampoline. He figured out string theory in a similar manner. That, to me, is gifted.

 

:iagree:

Everyone wants a special snowflake, people aren't content to have normal/average kids that do normal/average things. And if they can't be superior in brain function, then, by god, they better have some special malady. It irritates the crap out of me :glare: I had a friend who had a son who performed "normally"- C averages, nothing advanced, but nothing behind- and she dragged him around until she found someone who would label him with a learning disability.

 

Have you been on the website where I work? :001_smile:

 

As to Mergath's comment re: giftedness and madness, it is actually well documented:

 

Relation of mathematical ability to psychosis in Iceland

 

The fulfillment of promise: 40-year follow-up of the Terman gifted group "Suicide was responsible for the deaths of 14 men and 8 women."

 

Creativity & Madness Revisited from Current Psychological Perspectives

 

Sadly, I could link all day on that one. Just put "giftedness mental illness" into google scholar.

[Embassy]

The most challenging aspect of raising a gifted child in my family is the overexcitabilities.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: I am still trying to figure out how to parent effectively. And then if you have more than one of them and the overexcitabilities work against each other it is quite overwhelming.

 

I find this quote from the upside down world to define gifted well:

 

What I have found out, however, is that high intelligence entails not just being able to learn new things quickly and easily, but affects a person’s entire experience of life. People with unusually high intelligence take in and aquire information differently, process that information differently. They frequently experience emotions and physical stimuli more intensely than others. They have motivations and drives which others often find odd or bizarre. In short, being unusually intelligent tends to create a whole life experience which is markedly more complicated and intense than what most people experience.

[....]

Asta, I love your posts. You always have the greatest links. (Do you have some kind of magic link generator or something?) :cheers2:

[Impish]

I don't believe the term is marginalized as much as it is coveted; thus motivating parents to use it liberally.

:iagree:

I think a lot of 'gifted' labels have to do with parental competition.

 

As for me, I was tested in school. I wasn't told the results, but I frustrated my male teacher to tears. For what I tested out at, I should have been head and shoulders above the crowd...instead, I did just enough to keep from failing. He told me mother he really WANTED to fail me, so that I would be inspired to actually use what God had given me, but I'd done just enough that he couldn't.

 

I've been tested again recently. Top 4%. Frustrated the psychiatrist, because with everything else I'd done, he figured I'm in the top 1-2%, if I hadn't been distracted by RSD. He was almost in tears too.

 

I seem to have that affect on male authority figures who test my IQ. Maybe they should leave me alone :lol:

 

Gifted doesn't mean squat. I never did anything with it. I was a nursing attendant before I was assaulted and left disabled. I was finally on track to do something with what God had given me (plans for the LPN scholarship at work, already studying anatomy and physiology for the prereq, then on to the RN program, plans to be a Nursing Practitioner) but being attacked and left with RSD permanently sidelined that goal.

 

My kids are bright. We know this. I won't test their IQ. It doesn't matter to me. I want them to WORK with what they have, to apply themselves, to achieve. I don't care if they're 'gifted' or not...I want them to do the very best they can, so they have all the options possible. I want them to have a work ethic, the drive to apply themselves. All the stuff I wasn't taught, just expected to *poof* accomplish it.