NYT Article: Why are so many people in their 20s taking so long to grow up?

[QueenCat]

Oh, I certainly hope I didn't come across as labeling your DS a whiner. That wasn't my intent at all! My DD's best friend is one of those self-indulged, over-inflated self-esteem kids. She wants mom and dad to foot the bill for everything. She has no desire to get a job or volunteer at all, and she can't understand why DD's parents "make" her work. She's a bit clueless, but she's kind to my DD, so we tolerate her.

 

No, no.... I didn't think that.... but I constantly hear people say that teens that don't work aren't really trying..... I didn't think you were saying that....

[posybuddy]

Her BFF gets a $100/week in allowance.

 

:scared::scared::scared: Do you think her parents would adopt me??

 

 

 

I think there are tremendous media and marketing pressures in our society for people to advance to adolescence as soon as possible and then to stay in adolescence for as long as possible. Eight-year-olds who want to wear makeup and are "too old" to play with toys and 30-year-olds who don't feel ready to settle down yet are all part of the same phenomenon.

 

Eternal adolescence is a marketer's dream: adolescents are huge consumers of pop culture, have disposable income which they spend on themselves because they don't have responsibilities, are sensitive to trends and wanting to fit in, are pleasure-focused, seek out (and pay for) a lot of novel experiences, are image and brand conscious.

 

So of course there's going to be a multibillion-dollar effort to convince us that we should spend as much of our lives as possible in adolescence. Of course there is.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Yes, yes and yes. Add in the coddling that parents/schools do, the cultural paradigm that we should be having fun!! All the time!!, that work = pain (and our culture also goes to great lengths to avoid pain), and you can see where there would be zero incentive to embrace adulthood.

[idnib]

So much of this is based on cultural viewpoint. I have been raised in the Pakistani culture and I see many things that seem like they shouldn't go together, but in my culture, they do:

 

--Very involved parents, homeschool or other

 

--Children who live at home for a long time, even after marriage sometimes

 

--Parents who would not let their children go off on their own, nor tell them they have to leave the house at 18. (The joke I just received in email from another Pakistani American: "You know you're Pakistani when...your kids have to move back in with you and you're delighted.")

 

--Almost a complete absence of typical American adolescent behavior (rather, rebellion is considered an American marketing tool)

 

--Parents who insist on coming to orientations, college visits, etc. and review papers and homework in their child's senior year

 

--A lot of kids who have everything paid for and do not work part-time while going to school

 

AND

 

--Kids who are quite mature by college age and tend to marry younger than the average (or at least get engaged, if they are pursuing advanced degrees, which many of them are).

 

I think there is a place where parents can be really involved and the kids are quite mature. What makes the difference? IMHO, it mostly has to do with family expectations for success and an attitude that the success of one person in the family depends on everyone else as well. So there is a lot of time spent together and a lot of guidance and coddling. At the same time, the expectations are very high.

 

Yes, I'm generalizing. But in my generation (first born to immigrants) I was in the this culture. I was the only one out of our Pakistani friends who had a job before college, went to school far away, and had more independence. And in some ways I think it turned out better and in some ways worse. But I can say for sure that those coddled kids went to college and worked very hard, became surgeons and engineers, and married in their mid-20s (or a few years later after medical school residencies and such.)

 

So I wonder what the expectations are of the parents of these 20-somethings in the article? Is there little or no concern of how these children reflect on the family?

 

(And I have to admit I'm secretly a little happy that there are more diverse paths for people than there were a couple of generations ago.) :)

Edited August 21, 2010 by idnib

[jewellsmommy]

I was one of those teens that wanted to be all grown up right after high school and I experienced lots of roadblocks. I wasn't yet 18 and couldn't find a job. When dh and I got married at ages 19 and just shy of 21, we met with a lot of disapproval. Fortunately my parents were of the WWII generation so it was all OK with them...they married young too. But the message that we got from everyone else was "you are too young. You can't do this." It was very frustrating.

 

My eldest daughter and her husband experienced the same thing in regards to getting married at age 20. But they had it much worse. No support at all except from me. His parents and my dh were very unsupportive.

 

I think parents don't want to let go, and the age at which society considers one a "real" adult is being raised higher and higher. The whole higher education thing forces young adults to be financially dependent on their parents well into their 20s and this financial dependency gives the parents control, so the young adults are still being treated like little kids. And then we blame them for not growing up.

 

Susan in TX

 

Oh, same here! When dh and I got engaged, we had my parent's blessing, but other people... :glare: I had an aunt who told me "you know you don't have to get married to have s8x." She knew we were 'waiting for marriage' and honestly thought that was the reason we were marrying so young! I had graduated highschool a year early, had a job and a scholarship. It was rough but we made it work. I was 17 when we married and I was 22 when dd was born. Dh and I are still going strong!

 

My brother has been the classic 20 something of today, only he is married and they both live with our mom and dad. But, he just got a job with the state police and starts the academy in Oct. So, I think he might actually break free from this so-called new stage or whatever it is.

[WarriorMama]

Look at their parents. I am not pointing--I am saying. Because I am of the age to be the parents of this age group. The baby boomers (I am at the tail end of this crowd) refused to grow up. We all still walk around in sneakers and jeans, lifting our faces, trying to look like we are still in our 20s. Maybe 30s. Many people have written about this for years.

 

Take a look at movies of the 40s. No one was confused about who was grown up and who was not. Bette Davis, she looked like a grown up at age 40. Jennifer Anniston? Trying really hard to look...18.

 

Take a look at real life. My grandmother looked like...my grandmother. Orthopedic shoes, bosomy, hair in a bun, flowery dress. My son's grandmother looks a lot like me, except wrinklier. I look a lot like people who are the age to be my kids...except for the wrinkles. Youth is worshiped in this day and age, and old age is spurned.

 

How can the 20 somethings grow up to be older than their parents act? I am not talking about individuals here...but as a group, you have to admit, the Boomers are pretty child-like in their living.

 

That's an interesting point! I've also been thinking lately that with the super-busy two-income households baby boomers had going while they were raising kids, a lot of them didn't take the time to teach their children life skills. As the child of baby boomers, this has been my experience in my own life and that of most of my peers. I had to figure out everything the hard way - cooking, cleaning, shopping, bill paying, how to file my taxes, EVERYTHING. People a little less motivated to be independent just didn't figure it out at all. :glare:

[Impish]

My younger brothers are *classic* examples of what the article is talking about.

 

My parents supplied groceries, etc to my youngest brother while he was in college. Then he moved back in with them. He moved out when he got married, then promptly moved back in, wife in tow. They stayed until they had enough money saved for a hefty down payment on a house!

 

My 2nd youngest brother spent 2 yrs in Japan teaching English. He moved back in. He got married, and his wife moved in. They left recently, after saving enough for a hefty down payment as well, and he had become a police officer.

 

It just kills me. The idea that they shouldn't have to struggle to save for a house, that they're entitled to it. I was freaked out on by my mother when I moved out to go to college. She wanted me to marry my current boyfriend and move in. :eek: That I wouldn't even get engaged before going to college blew her mind. She even admitted that because I didn't agree with her made me wrong.

 

I hope my kids commute to college. Would be tonnes cheaper than dorm or renting. Other than that, get out and be independent!!!

[kalanamak]

Because they can.

[Danestress]

if your mom liked having them live at home, and if they were saving for that down payment, working, behaving well, why not?

 

I am an introvert, and it would not suit me to have my adult son move in with a wife. My 22 year old is living here right now, but he is working and is helpful. He drives carpools for me. Right now, I am fine with that, though it's temporary. A bride? FORGET about it. But if your Mom thought that was okay, i don't see the problem. My grandparents lived with my greats for many years - raised two children in their home. My grandfather worked very hard. But he adored his parents, was very good to them, and my mother has wonderful memories of her childhood. It was definitely hardest on my grandmother, though she did love her in-laws.

 

I have a problem with pressuring a child to stay home like your Mom did you. I would have been very proud to be your Mom and to have an independent child who has a vision for her future. But if I had a son who was responsible and hard working, and if I liked having extra people in the house and he liked being there and was using it to save money so that my grandchildren could have a better life, I would go along with that.

 

I guess in my mind, it is a mistake to enable children to be lazy and materialist. But if a parent has a nice big house, money enough to pay the extra utilities, etc, I don't see why it's such a problem for an adult child who has a job and is working hard and behaving well to move home. People all over the world have lived this way for generations.

[Matryoshka]

Look at their parents. I am not pointing--I am saying. Because I am of the age to be the parents of this age group. The baby boomers (I am at the tail end of this crowd) refused to grow up. We all still walk around in sneakers and jeans, lifting our faces, trying to look like we are still in our 20s. Maybe 30s. Many people have written about this for years.

 

Take a look at movies of the 40s. No one was confused about who was grown up and who was not. Bette Davis, she looked like a grown up at age 40. Jennifer Anniston? Trying really hard to look...18.

 

Take a look at real life. My grandmother looked like...my grandmother. Orthopedic shoes, bosomy, hair in a bun, flowery dress. My son's grandmother looks a lot like me, except wrinklier. I look a lot like people who are the age to be my kids...except for the wrinkles. Youth is worshiped in this day and age, and old age is spurned.

 

How can the 20 somethings grow up to be older than their parents act? I am not talking about individuals here...but as a group, you have to admit, the Boomers are pretty child-like in their living.

 

Well, exactly.

 

I love this monlogue by Craig Ferguson on this topic... he figured it all out. :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDuIvZkLun8

[Impish]

if your mom liked having them live at home, and if they were saving for that down payment, working, behaving well, why not?

 

I am an introvert, and it would not suit me to have my adult son move in with a wife. My 22 year old is living here right now, but he is working and is helpful. He drives carpools for me. Right now, I am fine with that, though it's temporary. A bride? FORGET about it. But if your Mom thought that was okay, i don't see the problem. My grandparents lived with my greats for many years - raised two children in their home. My grandfather worked very hard. But he adored his parents, was very good to them, and my mother has wonderful memories of her childhood. It was definitely hardest on my grandmother, though she did love her in-laws.

 

I have a problem with pressuring a child to stay home like your Mom did you. I would have been very proud to be your Mom and to have an independent child who has a vision for her future. But if I had a son who was responsible and hard working, and if I liked having extra people in the house and he liked being there and was using it to save money so that my grandchildren could have a better life, I would go along with that.

 

I guess in my mind, it is a mistake to enable children to be lazy and materialist. But if a parent has a nice big house, money enough to pay the extra utilities, etc, I don't see why it's such a problem for an adult child who has a job and is working hard and behaving well to move home. People all over the world have lived this way for generations.

My parents celebrated when the youngest first moved out. I joked about him moving in with his wife, and was told, "NO WAY!!" The youngest was chronically unemployed while living with them. They simply enabled him.

 

Since he and his wife moved out, had a child, my parents are pretty much ignored. I don't doubt that my mother brought it upon herself, she's some piece of work, but there was no thank you involved for what my parents enabled them to do.

 

I think if you're adult enough to be married, you should be adult enough to live on your own, pay your rent, utilities, budget, etc. Living with parents makes none of that happen...just lets them play house for a while.

[mcconnellboys]

Now why couldn't I have said that, LOL? That's precisely what I think, thanks!

[mcconnellboys]

With my college friends from other countries, what I saw was the influence that raising children in a "village" had on them. Small town culture of the pre-WWII Americas also used to lend itself to that sort of upbringing here.

 

Once upon a time, when you were raised in a large extended family environment, either your own family or the family of your small town neighbors or a tightknit neighborhood, most of the older/wiser folks talked to you regularly, gave you advice, admonished you when you were doing things you should not, taught you, and I could go on and on. Even when you got to that typical adolescent time of pulling away from your parents (necessary for leaving the nest at all, I think) and doubting their intelligence, sanity, etc. - you still had other adults or wiser, older youth saying the same things to you. For most folks that soon resulted in the aha! moment of understanding that their parents really did know/want what was best for them. This often happens sooner or later in today's culture, too, but it's generally later and after much angst on the part of everyone.

 

It really does, I think, take a "village" to raise a child in this sense. You're more likely to stay straight and flying right when you know that any misdeed or wrong turn seen or heard of by anyone who knows you will not only get back to your parents, but will be known shortly by all (many of whom will tease or admonish you about it).

 

I think this really does help in the maturation process of young people. All my foreign born friends in college were much more mature than any of my American raised friends of the same age (and this was 30 years ago, LOL!) What's more, they mimicked the extended family environment in which they had been raised by creating extended families of students who spent their free time together, ate together (day long events on many weekends), attended weddings and festivals together, traveled together, etc. The strong sense of family created for them not just a safety net while in college, but carried over into their adult lives afterward, too.

 

I'd like to see extended family living come back into play in the U.S. For a variety of reasons, I think we are going to see it start to occur more in the next decade, but I don't know that it's going to be the same as it once was.... As a matter of fact, I expect it to be pretty dysfunctional, at least at first. It's just not the same when everyone is attached to an audio/video device of some sort in a separate room, alone, as when families once were working together to grow food, store and prepare food, do cleaning chores, create clothing for the family together, etc. The sort of domestic and handwork that was once part and parcel of family life has, to a large extent, gone by the wayside. I feel that this was one form of useful work that helped children greatly in the maturation process....

 

Children need useful work and regular interaction with adults in order to mature. In cultures where this happens, or in individual families that still maintain strong extended family relationships, you still see this. For most of the rest of society, where family interaction has all but been replaced by some form of techno-nanny (among many other problems), it does not exist...

[Jane in NC]

With my college friends from other countries, what I saw was the influence that raising children in a "village" had on them. Small town culture of the pre-WWII Americas also used to lend itself to that sort of upbringing here.

 

Once upon a time, when you were raised in a large extended family environment, either your own family or the family of your small town neighbors or a tightknit neighborhood, most of the older/wiser folks talked to you regularly, gave you advice, admonished you when you were doing things you should not, taught you, and I could go on and on. Even when you got to that typical adolescent time of pulling away from your parents (necessary for leaving the nest at all, I think) and doubting their intelligence, sanity, etc. - you still had other adults or wiser, older youth saying the same things to you. For most folks that soon resulted in the aha! moment of understanding that their parents really did know/want what was best for them. This often happens sooner or later in today's culture, too, but it's generally later and after much angst on the part of everyone.

 

<snipped>

 

 

 

Regena,

 

Your post resonated with something that I was thinking about this summer. I was talking with friends, all of whom have children going to college or attending college currently. It was clear that many people seem to think that being "grown up" means being "independent"--the latter having more of a self centered ramification than a community oriented one. This bothered me. I don't think that the point of growing up is to live in a separate unit, isolated from family or society.

 

We spend a considerable amount of our summer with multi-generational families, some related by blood, some related by circumstances. My son has benefited greatly from his strong bonds to older individuals within these circles. In fact, when he made the rounds to colleges by himself last year, more than one admissions officer commented in a follow up phone call to me on my son's comfort level with adults. I have credited homeschooling for this, but perhaps there is more to it.

 

Perhaps we need a spinoff thread: what makes a "grown up"?

[rookie]

Lowered expectations coupled with inflated self-esteem and overall sense of entitlement?

 

 

This! :iagree:

 

I just had this conversation with the 20-something living in my house. She was telling me how hard she works in comparison with her peers. When we went through her list of peers, she realized - all on her own - that none of them actually have jobs!!! Of course she works harder - she works. But, boy, do they all have lots of time, energy, and money to PARTY. :glare:

[Kate CA]

This! :iagree:

 

I just had this conversation with the 20-something living in my house. She was telling me how hard she works in comparison with her peers. When we went through her list of peers, she realized - all on her own - that none of them actually have jobs!!! Of course she works harder - she works. But, boy, do they all have lots of time, energy, and money to PARTY. :glare:

 

I just want to say GOOD FOR YOUR 20-something! :001_smile: Tell her there are many out here who really respect her choices. :001_smile:

[mcconnellboys]

I agree. With my college friends, as with many homeschoolers I know now, we/they were/are comfortable interacting with a wide range of ages from babies to the very elderly. I think that comes from living in that sort of environment. And I think that sort of environment is mega beneficial.

 

There are lessons to be learned from people of all ages (even babies). Many kids who are kinesthetic learners would certainly benefit from this sort of immersive learning. In some ways, I think that we're all kinesthetic learners when it comes to this sort of socialization. This is one reason I never understand when people say that homeschoolers are "unsocialized". They're really some of the only truly socialized kids around in America today.

 

Being told about changing a baby; stages of infant development; stages of toddler development, etc. or learning about it in a book is completely different than living it. Talking or reading from a book about care of the elderly is totally different than living with the elderly or even volunteering in immersive environments such as nursing homes on a regular basis. I think there's something about living it that burns those neural pathways much deeper than just talking about things one has never really experienced. (And the same goes for any other sort of group of people who may be in our life sphere.)

 

Learning perhaps important life lessons from such divergent age groups through regular interaction with them can't be quantified in any way at all that I can think of. We just don't know when someone will do or say something that will etch itself into our being and stay with us forever (or hide in our memory and come back years later to floor us with its profundity).

 

Because these experiences are so very personal and unique, we just don't know how they may serve to impact our growth as humans; how they may influence our decisions about our own paths in life, etc. People can certainly live, and mature - eventually - without such influences. But we'll never know how much richer their lives might have been if they had experienced the opportunities of lost community that are yearly becoming more prevalent here in our country....

[LibraryLover]

My dh is from an 'old world' -type family; families of a couple + generations often live (d) under one roof, and it's common for young marrieds to live with parents as they save money for a house. One of the big selling points of our curent home for dh was the small two story guest cottage on the propertry. He imagines his children taking turns living in it if they want so that can save money to buy a house, travel and not worry about rent, go to grad school etc. He also imagines it might house our artist child for a time-- the light is good in there, says he. My dh is like this. :D

Edited August 22, 2010 by LibraryLover