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NYT Article: Why are so many people in their 20s taking so long to grow up?


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young people feeling less rush to marry because of the general acceptance of premarital sex, cohabitation and birth control;

 

I think this is a huge piece of the puzzle. Marriage forces you to settle down, and the cultural pressures to get married are greatly reduced now.

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I think this is a huge piece of the puzzle. Marriage forces you to settle down, and the cultural pressures to get married are greatly reduced now.

 

:iagree:Although I think economics also play a large role now. The average age that a young adult in America becomes self-supporting is 28. That means for about a decade between 18 & 28, young adults will be financially dependent on others (parents, roommates, etc.) as they get an education and start a career. Being financially dependent on someone else must also be a serious drag on the growing up process.

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Lowered expectations coupled with inflated self-esteem and overall sense of entitlement?

 

As a 28 year old I've found myself very frustrated with my peers over the past decade. I'm not implying that they should all get married at 18 and have kids right away, but there is an acute lack of dependence and sense of responsibility among them. I only see it getting worse though. I've met many 30 something year olds that transfer that dependence from their parents to the government. Please don't take me as coming across arrogant, I certainly have my own issues.:001_smile:

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:iagree:Although I think economics also play a large role now. The average age that a young adult in America becomes self-supporting is 28. That means for about a decade between 18 & 28, young adults will be financially dependent on others (parents, roommates, etc.) as they get an education and start a career. Being financially dependent on someone else must also be a serious drag on the growing up process.

 

But which comes first? Both of these relate to each other. Yes, the job market is worse for uneducated workers now than it was 30 years ago. But many men are unmotivated to go out and hunt for the good job until they are married and have children.

 

I'm Mormon. Among Mormons the marriage age is much younger than the modern general population. I don't know about official stats, but my Mormon friends got married at around age 21-22 for women, 23-25 for men. My non-Mormon friends got married about 5 years later than that.

 

Why the difference? It's the same economy for both groups. Mormons are strongly encouraged to get a good education, so that might be part of it. But I think most of it is two factors: (1) pre-marital chastity is encouraged and cohabitation is not accepted, and (2) missions encourage Mormon young men to grow up.

 

Maybe some parents support their young married children. I don't know about that.

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I started reading that article and didn't finish it yet. But what really struck me was the whole explanation of why the life stage of adolescence was created 100 years ago. That seems like it was a huge mistake, and now, instead of correcting that mistake, we're just expanding adolescence into the 20's.

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I think these may be some factors:

 

*The "parent" generation has become disenchanted with corporate 9-5 jobs that suck the life out of them with little fulfillment, little or no compensation for overtime, and not even the satisfaction of physical labor. It's basically a salary and benefits. This is supposed to be the "reward" for getting a college degree and growing up. It feels like 40 yrs of treading water. Their kids pick up on this. Why would they be a in a hurry to get started on it ?

 

*The "parent" generation has not financially been committed to putting their kids through college, or has not been able to keep up with the costs of college. The kids have to pay their own way or take out loans, leaving them less money to launch themselves with.

 

*The kids have become accustomed to a living standard with their parents that they cannot afford to create for themselves on their own, and having the option to stay with their parents, they prefer to do that than live on their own with just the basics, no spending money, and no luxuries

 

*Life with their parents was not restrictive or demanding. They have had such a high degree of freedom, privacy, and independence for a long time, perhaps from their preteen years, that they do not feel an internal need for "freedom" that drives their desire to "launch".

Edited by laundrycrisis
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Lowered expectations coupled with inflated self-esteem and overall sense of entitlement?

 

Sounds like they are trying to normalize immaturity. Another attempt to dumb down our culture.

 

:iagree:

 

Two things happened over the summer that really brought this home for me:

 

1. Back in June, DD had her college orientation. It was an over-night, two-day event. She went by herself. She was the only one in her group (about 30 in-coming freshman) that didn't have her parents with her. When she called me during her first break and told me this, I asked her if she wanted me to come. She immediately said, "no way!" She told me that the parents were more or less just sitting next to their kids watching them fill out paperwork. That there was really no point in parents being there.

 

2. Today, as we moved DD into her dorm, I was shocked by the number of parents who were lugging brand new flat screen TVs (new in boxes, and some on dollies because they were so large), larger-than-mini-sized fridges, and various other very expensive items. Now, we did bring DD's desktop computer, printer, and laptop. We also brought a coffee pot and a used microwave for her. DD and her roommate had been coordinating what they were bringing for over a month so that they didn't have to spend money on the same things. Neither one of them brought a tv.

 

I guess things were just different when I went to college. No one was bringing $1000 tvs to the dorms. Most of us were lucky to bring a boombox that played the radio AND tapes - and forget about a CD player. We certainly didn't have our parents show up with us on orientation days.

 

I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the parents.

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I think they are taking so long to grow up because they are allowed to.... My kids know that at 18 - they're pretty much out. We'll be supportive and help out when we can - but they are not living at home after high school.

 

Yes! This is what we told our kids too. We told them that when the graduated from high school, they had two options: college or the military. My friends (and some family members) think we are awful parents for expecting our children to leave home when they turn 18.

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Yes! This is what we told our kids too. We told them that when the graduated from high school, they had two options: college or the military. My friends (and some family members) think we are awful parents for expecting our children to leave home when they turn 18.

 

Yeah - we get that all the time - like we're just mean! But I've sat down with both of our sons and explained the "whys" of it all - and they seem to like the fact that we expect them to be independent (well - mostly) at 18.

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I know that, compared to their European peers, American high school students have a lot of ground to make-up. Perhaps the heavy academic load in high school, and even more so in college prevents other aspects of maturation from developing. We are hoping to distribute academic work more evenly, so that the high school years can be used for having a part-time job, responsibilities at home, and other "irritating" factors that encourage earlier maturation.

 

After all, if your mom cooks for you, cleans up after you, and gives you a generous allowance for "stuff," why on earth would you trade that for the poverty and hard-work of getting started?

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DD and her roommate had been coordinating what they were bringing for over a month so that they didn't have to spend money on the same things. Neither one of them brought a tv.

 

I had a TV, but it was a cheap 99 dollar CRT with a VCR player built in and a DVD player. The only reason I had it was I had been through military training prior to college. Since my AIT was a year and a half long I bought a cheap TV and DVD player for my room in the barracks. Initially I split the cost with my roomate, but I paid her back her half and kept it when she moved out. I would be afraid to bring an expensive TV into a dorm situation.

 

I did notice while I was there that I was one of the only ones who couldn't afford the 'extras'. I bought into chinese take-out once my whole semester, and it was a cheap 5 dollar thing. I was paying my own way and while thanks to the military and student loans I had enough to pay for school and books, I didn't have anything left over. And my parents couldn't help either, they didn't have money themselves.

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I started reading that article and didn't finish it yet. But what really struck me was the whole explanation of why the life stage of adolescence was created 100 years ago. That seems like it was a huge mistake, and now, instead of correcting that mistake, we're just expanding adolescence into the 20's.

 

:iagree: My thoughts exactly. I was going along, nodding my head on occasion--it was a fairly balanced article and brought up some good points on both sides, I thought--but my overwhelming reaction was the same as above. The law of unintended consequences. Teenagers-as-children seem to be the current normal. Teens who are mature and craving adult responsibility are told they are no longer allowed to extend themselves. I can see something similar happening with 20-somethings. Instead of pitying or ridiculing the 28yo couch surfer, God help us parents, that could be the new normal if this takes hold.

 

Barb

Edited by Barb F. PA in AZ
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I blame televisision. I'm only partly kidding. When I was growing up they had shows on like Cosby, Family Ties, Growing Pains, etc....television that celebrated the family. Then it was Friends. That show made it seem like your twenties were for hanging out drinking coffee. Add in Melrose Place, and it's great grandchild Sex in the City, and well, family just isn't cool anymore. The only family shows are ones where the dad is a bumbling idiot. What guy wants that? Heck, what woman wants to be married to that?

 

My hubby is a few years younger and he struggled a bit with this, but due to VERY challenging life circumstances he is much more mature than his friends. It is only now, after 30, they they are even considering settling down, not going out drinking all the time, etc. One of his friends is a new dad and word on the street is that he is having a very hard time with it. There are no cultural role models or support.

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I think these may be some factors:

 

*The "parent" generation has become disenchanted with corporate 9-5 jobs that suck the life out of them with little fulfillment, little or no compensation for overtime, and not even the satisfaction of physical labor. It's basically a salary and benefits. This is supposed to be the "reward" for getting a college degree and growing up. It feels like 40 yrs of treading water. Their kids pick up on this. Why would they be a in a hurry to get started on it ?

Yes, I think this is part of it. We no longer celebrate the responsibilities of a good job..or any job. My father told me over and over that there is no such thing as a bad job, as long as you work your hardest.

*The "parent" generation has not financially been committed to putting their kids through college, or has not been able to keep up with the costs of college. The kids have to pay their own way or take out loans, leaving them less money to launch themselves with.

I know that for the young people I know this is true, but not the only cause. My dh's friends have prepaid college tuition, but dropped out. Now at almost 30 they are finally realizing that mistake and going back to school.

 

*The kids have become accustomed to a living standard with their parents that they cannot afford to create for themselves on their own, and having the option to stay with their parents, they prefer to do that than live on their own with just the basics, no spending money, and no luxuries

YES! we have become so materialistic that being poor starting out is no longer acceptable in most circles. I don't know why but people seem to think you need to start out with matching furniture and a brand new car. When my parents started out they had almost nothing, except love of course. They worked hard and my dad went to technical school at night and now, after promotion after promotion they have a gorgeous house in a nice neighborhood. But I remember the lean years because I was growing up then. They didn't wait to have kids until financially secure. If they had I might only remember them having plenty of money. I don't think that is a good thing.

*Life with their parents was not restrictive or demanding. They have had such a high degree of freedom, privacy, and independence for a long time, perhaps from their preteen years, that they do not feel an internal need for "freedom" that drives their desire to "launch".

Very true. If your parents are strict the big incentive for moving out is to do what you want, when you want. My son just wrote an essay on why he wants to be 18 and move out, and I was very pleased.
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Well, the brain doesn't finish maturing until age 25, anyway,

 

But isn't the brain plastic? Isn't the development of the brain dependent on the experiences it goes through and the demands put on it? If the brain of a video-game addicted kid is different from a child restricted from video games (I think that's true), wouldn't it be possible that the brain of someone who is encouraged not to grow up be different from someone who has taken on responsibility?

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I blame televisision. I'm only partly kidding. When I was growing up they had shows on like Cosby, Family Ties, Growing Pains, etc....television that celebrated the family. Then it was Friends. That show made it seem like your twenties were for hanging out drinking coffee. Add in Melrose Place, and it's great grandchild Sex in the City, and well, family just isn't cool anymore. The only family shows are ones where the dad is a bumbling idiot. What guy wants that? Heck, what woman wants to be married to that?

 

My hubby is a few years younger and he struggled a bit with this, but due to VERY challenging life circumstances he is much more mature than his friends. It is only now, after 30, they they are even considering settling down, not going out drinking all the time, etc. One of his friends is a new dad and word on the street is that he is having a very hard time with it. There are no cultural role models or support.

 

Wow. Really good point about the change in popular TV sitcoms. I think we could also add the huge rise in snarky, know it all teens. The parents are totally inept and clueless and the kids are the smart, all-knowing characters. So, really, what is there to emulate?

 

I find, as the mom to two teenagers, it is incredibly difficult to raise those kids I thought I would raise. For example, my 16 yo dd *could not* find a job this summer. We even tried pulling strings with people we know. But, why would they hire a teen when an adult will do the same work? They require way less supervision and training. We require our kids do way more around the house and farm than their peers, but still, I worry that they'll go off the college without knowing the value of a hard-earned dollar.

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Thanks for posting the link.

 

My son's college uses the term "emerging adults" to describe the first year students, a label that I think is appropriate for those who are 17 to 19 years old. But for twenty somethings?

 

I often wonder if modern parents simply do not want to launch their kids. Perhaps others have heard of adult children moving back home and encountered parents wearing a wry grin who say, "Well, what can you do?" And certainly, in some cases, 20-somethings need help. Or can help the parents. (There are multi-generation households out there that rely on young adult children assisting with elderly family members.)

 

It is the self indulgence that some treat as owed to them that bothers me. There was an article in the NY Times or Boston Globe this summer about a young man who would not accept a job despite two years of unemployment because the position was beneath him. Daddy was still paying his cell phone bill so he could do that. I would have hated to be that dependent upon my parents in my twenties.

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What about Cheers, Dallas, Moonlighting, and that show (name escapes me) with Alexis and Joan Collins?

 

 

I blame televisision. I'm only partly kidding. When I was growing up they had shows on like Cosby, Family Ties, Growing Pains, etc....television that celebrated the family. Then it was Friends. That show made it seem like your twenties were for hanging out drinking coffee. Add in Melrose Place, and it's great grandchild Sex in the City, and well, family just isn't cool anymore. The only family shows are ones where the dad is a bumbling idiot. What guy wants that? Heck, what woman wants to be married to that?

 

My hubby is a few years younger and he struggled a bit with this, but due to VERY challenging life circumstances he is much more mature than his friends. It is only now, after 30, they they are even considering settling down, not going out drinking all the time, etc. One of his friends is a new dad and word on the street is that he is having a very hard time with it. There are no cultural role models or support.

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I've seen this in my own family. A child who's had total freedom, without any responsibility, will not embrace adulthood, because it's a loss for them. Why would someone choose to take on my responsibility, more work, with no gain in autonomy or freedom? I see this in my nephew, who had little supervision or restriction all through his childhood. Now at 21, he's totally failed to launch, because he spends his entire day watching cartoons and playing computer games, as he did for many many years when he was younger. He gains nothing at all by taking a job, at least, nothing he's willing to work for. Freedom and self-determination were already there, so it's no gain.

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We certainly didn't have our parents show up with us on orientation days.

 

Heck, my parents told me *I* needed to figure out how to get myself (and my stuff) to college. "There's the bus" (from Ft. Lauderdale to Lynchburg). Thankfully, I caught a ride with a family with 2 kids heading to the same school. I had never met them before... I went off to my first year of school with complete and total strangers.:tongue_smilie:

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I know that, compared to their European peers, American high school students have a lot of ground to make-up. Perhaps the heavy academic load in high school, and even more so in college prevents other aspects of maturation from developing. We are hoping to distribute academic work more evenly, so that the high school years can be used for having a part-time job, responsibilities at home, and other "irritating" factors that encourage earlier maturation.

 

After all, if your mom cooks for you, cleans up after you, and gives you a generous allowance for "stuff," why on earth would you trade that for the poverty and hard-work of getting started?

 

Where do you get that information about European vs. American teens? If true, what could cause it? Many European countries' schools are touted as more academic than American ones. ("Europe" is too diverse to really quantify anyway, but we'll go with it here.) Are you saying that European teens have more chores and more paid jobs? That they are less materialistic?

 

I was an exchange student as a teen and was often told that "American teens are 4 years less mature than European teens." I saw no evidence for that whatsoever. (I was 15 when I went, but I don't recall acting like the 11-yo's I met.) IME the teens I knew in Europe--and everyone else--were about as good, bad, mature and immature as the Americans I knew at home, even if they expressed it differently.

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A child who's had total freedom, without any responsibility, will not embrace adulthood, because it's a loss for them. Why would someone choose to take on my responsibility, more work, with no gain in autonomy or freedom?

 

Yep!

 

And they not only do not gain in autonomy or freedom, but also not in money. Most teenagers around here have way more spending money than adults. I do not have any recent numbers, but the last time I heard how much money the average teenager is spending on cellphone / texting / clothes / going out, I about keeled over. I never ever spend that much money on myself. And if you have been doing that for years, it is -I imagine- hard to give up.

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Where do you get that information about European vs. American teens? If true, what could cause it? Many European countries' schools are touted as more academic than American ones. ("Europe" is too diverse to really quantify anyway, but we'll go with it here.) Are you saying that European teens have more chores and more paid jobs? That they are less materialistic?

 

I was an exchange student as a teen and was often told that "American teens are 4 years less mature than European teens." I saw no evidence for that whatsoever. (I was 15 when I went, but I don't recall acting like the 11-yo's I met.) IME the teens I knew in Europe--and everyone else--were about as good, bad, mature and immature as the Americans I knew at home, even if they expressed it differently.

 

I grew up in France and I would consider high school more academic than the US. We had no "fluff" classes in high shool for sure and with the baccalaureat exam at the end of the senior year, it doesn't leave much time for other pursuits.

We had classes from 8am to noon and 1:30pm to 6pm (This is France, hence the long lunch break :)). Noone I knew had a part-time job during the school year, I have no idea how someone would be able to fit one in in between school and homework or even find one when you get out of school at 6pm and basically everything closes at 7-8pm (this was a small town it might be different in a large city)

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My parents were gone 7 am to 7 pm in the early 70s when there was no day care so I did everything on my own. I was expected to get good grades, keep the house and yard clean and have dinner on the table when they got home. I was figuring how to do and handle stuff on my own from a young age. Now, kids are in daycare or completely programmed activities all day everyday. This programming used stop at the end of elementary school, but now I see extensive activities through high school. Forget chores and self care, kids aren't even learning how to deal with their own scheduling for academic (homework) or social time. It's no wonder parents keep picking up slack in college arranging off campus leases and laundry service. It's no wonder that my college called us adults, but today students are "emerging" adults.

 

Partly people do it under the idea of safety. I rode my bike to week long day camp once. It was 3 miles away, part on a busy road. Now parents must show id and check the child in and out, people would say what I did was so bad for the child (me). People don't let their kids out of their sight anymore for unsupervised play, but I learned a lot of stuff on my own and with other kids with no parents checking on us.

 

As a parent I've had to find ways to help my dc develop independence. Because I've been home I also do a lot more for my kids and they are less self sufficient. We are working on that. They earn their own spending money. They are expected to have a regular summer job at 16, sooner if possible. I see a lot of kids who don't work and their parents give them money. I don't get that.

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I grew up in France and I would consider high school more academic than the US. We had no "fluff" classes in high shool for sure and with the baccalaureat exam at the end of the senior year, it doesn't leave much time for other pursuits.

We had classes from 8am to noon and 1:30pm to 6pm (This is France, hence the long lunch break :)). Noone I knew had a part-time job during the school year, I have no idea how someone would be able to fit one in in between school and homework or even find one when you get out of school at 6pm and basically everything closes at 7-8pm (this was a small town it might be different in a large city)

It is different in large cities - I grew up in Rome - but I still don't know anyone of my generation that had a regular part-time job in high school. Usually when you finished with one school you went to another (conservatory, Hebrew school, ballet school, whatever you attended), MANY of us grew up with dual-school experience that way or with additional academic areas studied outside of the school setting - and had parents that were sane enough to know that the little truly free time we have left MUST be downtime, not work, in order for us to develop into healthy individuals.

 

We had a considerably more dense and more difficult high school load than the American students, had less hours per week to cover the same material if we studied the same material, plus we studied certain areas on a very high level that cannot be found on that level in American schools. I don't find American high school culture to be school-centered AT. ALL., and one of the main reasons why I homeschool is to keep my daughters away from incredibly low academic expectations around us.

And generally, the more "Eastern" you go on the map of the world, the more difficult the schools and the longer the school day. There might be exceptions, but that's my general impression.

 

I think part of the problem (other than in things others have brought up before me) lies in the 'culture' of American college experience, which emphasizes indulging oneself with heavy partying. That's definitely not the way to enter adulthood. When I went to university, most of us settled down gradually during that period and actually started to fool around less and less compared to high school. There was this whole culture of implicit rite of passage: "You're an academic citizen now, a different kind of behavior, thought and dress is expected of you, you're expected to attend different kind of events and hang in different social circles." It wasn't just a continuation of high school - there was something essentially different about university, and university in "European culture" (if we can generalize that concept) is a totally different concept (or at least was before certain fashions they introduced in the past decade).

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I find, as the mom to two teenagers, it is incredibly difficult to raise those kids I thought I would raise. For example, my 16 yo dd *could not* find a job this summer. We even tried pulling strings with people we know. But, why would they hire a teen when an adult will do the same work? They require way less supervision and training. We require our kids do way more around the house and farm than their peers, but still, I worry that they'll go off the college without knowing the value of a hard-earned dollar.

 

:iagree: It is very hard for teens and college students to find work in our area. My older son pounded the pavement for the past few years during summer breaks. He did get one job at a fast food restaurant..... for 5 hours a week. They wanted a few extras just for Saturdays. Thankfully, he started a pet/house sitting service when he was 16, and still does that during both the school year and summer breaks. I'd love it if he had something regular during the summer but it has yet to happen (and is typical for even very responsible, clean cut young adults in this area). Most employers either want you available any shift, even during the school year, or want you to be older. They can go for older because there are so many older workers available, and the employers perceive them as being more responsible. Thankfully, ds did find a semi-regular volunteer job at a local museum this summer, which gave him some responsibility, just not $ but he did earn some of that with his pet/house sitting. Younger ds has Aspergers so we haven't pushed him trying to find a job, but he does have one of his own dog sitting clients and helps his older brother with some jobs.

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I was one of those teens that wanted to be all grown up right after high school and I experienced lots of roadblocks. I wasn't yet 18 and couldn't find a job. When dh and I got married at ages 19 and just shy of 21, we met with a lot of disapproval. Fortunately my parents were of the WWII generation so it was all OK with them...they married young too. But the message that we got from everyone else was "you are too young. You can't do this." It was very frustrating.

 

My eldest daughter and her husband experienced the same thing in regards to getting married at age 20. But they had it much worse. No support at all except from me. His parents and my dh were very unsupportive.

 

I think parents don't want to let go, and the age at which society considers one a "real" adult is being raised higher and higher. The whole higher education thing forces young adults to be financially dependent on their parents well into their 20s and this financial dependency gives the parents control, so the young adults are still being treated like little kids. And then we blame them for not growing up.

 

Susan in TX

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When dh and I got married at ages 19 and just shy of 21, we met with a lot of disapproval. Fortunately my parents were of the WWII generation so it was all OK with them...they married young too. But the message that we got from everyone else was "you are too young. You can't do this." It was very frustrating.

 

My eldest daughter and her husband experienced the same thing in regards to getting married at age 20. But they had it much worse. No support at all except from me. His parents and my dh were very unsupportive.

 

 

 

My dh and I were 23 when we married (he was nearly 24) and we had people say that we were very young to be getting married!

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My parents were gone 7 am to 7 pm in the early 70s when there was no day care so I did everything on my own. I was expected to get good grades, keep the house and yard clean and have dinner on the table when they got home. I was figuring how to do and handle stuff on my own from a young age. Now, kids are in daycare or completely programmed activities all day everyday. This programming used stop at the end of elementary school, but now I see extensive activities through high school. Forget chores and self care, kids aren't even learning how to deal with their own scheduling for academic (homework) or social time. It's no wonder parents keep picking up slack in college arranging off campus leases and laundry service. It's no wonder that my college called us adults, but today students are "emerging" adults.

 

Partly people do it under the idea of safety. I rode my bike to week long day camp once. It was 3 miles away, part on a busy road. Now parents must show id and check the child in and out, people would say what I did was so bad for the child (me). People don't let their kids out of their sight anymore for unsupervised play, but I learned a lot of stuff on my own and with other kids with no parents checking on us.

 

As a parent I've had to find ways to help my dc develop independence. Because I've been home I also do a lot more for my kids and they are less self sufficient. We are working on that. They earn their own spending money. They are expected to have a regular summer job at 16, sooner if possible. I see a lot of kids who don't work and their parents give them money. I don't get that.

 

You know this is a good point too. Today your parents would be "bad parents." There is a general upping of the ante of parenthood from the earliest days on. I remember MFS used to refer to it as, "Parenting as Performance Art." "See how I don't allow my son to go across the monkey bars? See how I praise his sandcastle in high pitched tones? See how I pack a three course meal and a change of clothes whenever we leave the house?" Those parents who drove me up a tree when my big kids were babies are the same parents sitting there at college orientation. Conspicuously parenting. Now there is nothing wrong with having an individual or even protective parenting style...I mean look at us...we're homeschoolers! But anymore parents who encourage independence and maturity are criticized as neglectful.

 

I've spread my kids out quite a bit and I've noticed that each time one of my children begins to hit the teen years, I am expected to baby them a little more each time or risk looking neglectful.

 

Barb

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I've seen this in my own family. A child who's had total freedom, without any responsibility, will not embrace adulthood, because it's a loss for them. Why would someone choose to take on my responsibility, more work, with no gain in autonomy or freedom? I see this in my nephew, who had little supervision or restriction all through his childhood. Now at 21, he's totally failed to launch, because he spends his entire day watching cartoons and playing computer games, as he did for many many years when he was younger. He gains nothing at all by taking a job, at least, nothing he's willing to work for. Freedom and self-determination were already there, so it's no gain.

 

Excellent points and I totally agree.

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WRT to teen jobs:

 

I live in an area with 12% unemployment. My DD has been able to find and hold a job for the past 3 years. Granted, she's making minimum wage, and she's working jobs that most adults aren't interested in. Places like Burger King/McDonalds have very high turnover. She was relentless in pursuing a job once she turned in the application. She always followed up after turning in her application. Her BFF, OTOH, would drop the application off and when they didn't contact her right away, she whined that there weren't any jobs out there for her. DD was even able to get her friend a job at the Burger King she was working at, and the friend lasted 2 days (too hard!). DD has two jobs now - one at a kids' bounce house chain, and one at a restaurant chain.

 

ETA: We also cut off allowance once she hit 13. She was "paid" for doing odd jobs around the house until she was old enough for employment. Her BFF gets a $100/week in allowance. What is the incentive for that kid to get a job?

 

Also, if you can't find a job, there are many, many volunteering opportunities out there. Often times, a volunteering job can get your foot in the door for a paying job.

 

I think it's so important that our teens have a job (or volunteer) once they hit 15/16 years old. They learn so many life lessons on a job that parents just can't teach them.

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I think there are tremendous media and marketing pressures in our society for people to advance to adolescence as soon as possible and then to stay in adolescence for as long as possible. Eight-year-olds who want to wear makeup and are "too old" to play with toys and 30-year-olds who don't feel ready to settle down yet are all part of the same phenomenon.

 

Eternal adolescence is a marketer's dream: adolescents are huge consumers of pop culture, have disposable income which they spend on themselves because they don't have responsibilities, are sensitive to trends and wanting to fit in, are pleasure-focused, seek out (and pay for) a lot of novel experiences, are image and brand conscious.

 

So of course there's going to be a multibillion-dollar effort to convince us that we should spend as much of our lives as possible in adolescence. Of course there is.

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WRT to teen jobs:

 

I live in an area with 12% unemployment. My DD has been able to find and hold a job for the past 3 years. Granted, she's making minimum wage, and she's working jobs that most adults aren't interested in. Places like Burger King/McDonalds have very high turnover. She was relentless in pursuing a job once she turned in the application. She always followed up after turning in her application. Her BFF, OTOH, would drop the application off and when they didn't contact her right away, she whined that there weren't any jobs out there for her. DD was even able to get her friend a job at the Burger King she was working at, and the friend lasted 2 days (too hard!). DD has two jobs now - one at a kids' bounce house chain, and one at a restaurant chain.

 

ETA: We also cut off allowance once she hit 13. She was "paid" for doing odd jobs around the house until she was old enough for employment. Her BFF gets a $100/week in allowance. What is the incentive for that kid to get a job?

 

Also, if you can't find a job, there are many, many volunteering opportunities out there. Often times, a volunteering job can get your foot in the door for a paying job.

 

I think it's so important that our teens have a job (or volunteer) once they hit 15/16 years old. They learn so many life lessons on a job that parents just can't teach them.

 

Where we live, the many older adults do take those jobs. My son is not a whiner, and did follow up on applications he turned in. Thankfully, he does have his pet/house sitting business and volunteer work. I just worry because some people (I'm referring in general, not to you) seem to think that a teen that doesn't have a job just didn't try hard enough. It's just not true.

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I think there are tremendous media and marketing pressures in our society for people to advance to adolescence as soon as possible and then to stay in adolescence for as long as possible. Eight-year-olds who want to wear makeup and are "too old" to play with toys and 30-year-olds who don't feel ready to settle down yet are all part of the same phenomenon.

 

Eternal adolescence is a marketer's dream: adolescents are huge consumers of pop culture, have disposable income which they spend on themselves because they don't have responsibilities, are sensitive to trends and wanting to fit in, are pleasure-focused, seek out (and pay for) a lot of novel experiences, are image and brand conscious.

 

So of course there's going to be a multibillion-dollar effort to convince us that we should spend as much of our lives as possible in adolescence. Of course there is.

 

Great post!

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I think there are tremendous media and marketing pressures in our society for people to advance to adolescence as soon as possible and then to stay in adolescence for as long as possible. Eight-year-olds who want to wear makeup and are "too old" to play with toys and 30-year-olds who don't feel ready to settle down yet are all part of the same phenomenon.

 

Eternal adolescence is a marketer's dream: adolescents are huge consumers of pop culture, have disposable income which they spend on themselves because they don't have responsibilities, are sensitive to trends and wanting to fit in, are pleasure-focused, seek out (and pay for) a lot of novel experiences, are image and brand conscious.

 

So of course there's going to be a multibillion-dollar effort to convince us that we should spend as much of our lives as possible in adolescence. Of course there is.

Bingo!!!

 

Jackie

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Where we live, the many older adults do take those jobs. My son is not a whiner, and did follow up on applications he turned in. Thankfully, he does have his pet/house sitting business and volunteer work. I just worry because some people (I'm referring in general, not to you) seem to think that a teen that doesn't have a job just didn't try hard enough. It's just not true.

 

Oh, I certainly hope I didn't come across as labeling your DS a whiner. That wasn't my intent at all! My DD's best friend is one of those self-indulged, over-inflated self-esteem kids. She wants mom and dad to foot the bill for everything. She has no desire to get a job or volunteer at all, and she can't understand why DD's parents "make" her work. She's a bit clueless, but she's kind to my DD, so we tolerate her.

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I think what you're saying is true, too. However brain imaging has shown for a good size group that's been being followed for a while now that their brains continued maturation (actual physical, gray matter maturation)through about age 25. I think this paper reports those findings, too, more toward the middle or end of it. Scientists are measuring this one aspect of brain maturation and drawing their conclusions from it....

 

The brain is so very, very complex that I think tons of things influence its development on different levels. All the chemicals coming into our bodies through our environments influence it; all our socialization influences it; and of course genetics will also play a role. If minor chemical changes can change the way that proteins in the brain interact with each other, then tiny things might cause myriad responses. If light and temperature can change the way in which proteins interact, then I think emotions, response to external stimulii, etc. also can do that.

 

I really don't think this is an evolutionary process that we're seeing unfold (as some scientists seem to be suggesting). I don't think that now we finally have time to relax and take the time our brains want for maturation because we're more safe and nurtured for a longer period of time, and so, voila, our brains now take longer to mature. Instead, I tend to agree with other writers, like Gatto, who have been saying for a while now that coddling tends to infantilize our young people.

 

I think the gray matter is still going to be continuing its maturation up until age 25, no matter the external triggers, but the social factors also make a difference that we can see in terms of behaviour patterns during the teen to 30 time frame. Clear as mud? I mean, I think that scanning the brains of even young people who "appear" very mature will still show that their gray matter is continuing its maturation process, but I don't think we understand all the factors that are involved in what we consider "maturation".

 

I think a 23 year old who has worked since age 12 in a family business (for instance) is going to - often, not always - "appear" to most folks to be "more mature" than a 23 year old who has never had such an opportunity. However, if you scan both their brains, I think that you're still going to see cortical changes occurring in a similar pattern for both of them. I don't think that they've found that cortical maturation patterns are different based on such external stimulii, or experiences, in one's life. They still don't really know how such stimulii affect what we consider to be "maturation".

 

So what I'm flubbering around in trying to say, I guess, is that I definitely think that such external stimulii DO influence maturity and ARE important in helping kids mature, gain a sense of purpose at an earlier age, etc. We've had this conversation before on these boards about providing our kids with real life skills and meaningful experiences as they grow up. Gatto talks about it quite often. We don't yet understand how this impacts brain development - but I think we can see that it certainly does impact it. That's not to say that doing this will change their physical maturation such that it concludes at an earlier age (not in a way we can measure at this time, anyway), but I think it definitely makes a difference in mindset for our kids through their 20's....

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I think what you're saying is true, too. However brain imaging has shown for a good size group that's been being followed for a while now that their brains continued maturation (actual physical, gray matter maturation)through about age 25. I think this paper reports those findings, too, more toward the middle or end of it. Scientists are measuring this one aspect of brain maturation and drawing their conclusions from it....

 

The brain is so very, very complex that I think tons of things influence its development on different levels. All the chemicals coming into our bodies through our environments influence it; all our socialization influences it; and of course genetics will also play a role. If minor chemical changes can change the way that proteins in the brain interact with each other, then tiny things might cause myriad responses. If light and temperature can change the way in which proteins interact, then I think emotions, response to external stimulii, etc. also can do that.

 

I really don't think this is an evolutionary process that we're seeing unfold (as some scientists seem to be suggesting). I don't think that now we finally have time to relax and take the time our brains want for maturation because we're more safe and nurtured for a longer period of time, and so, voila, our brains now take longer to mature. Instead, I tend to agree with other writers, like Gatto, who have been saying for a while now that coddling tends to infantilize our young people.

 

I think the gray matter is still going to be continuing its maturation up until age 25, no matter the external triggers, but the social factors also make a difference that we can see in terms of behaviour patterns during the teen to 30 time frame. Clear as mud? I mean, I think that scanning the brains of even young people who "appear" very mature will still show that their gray matter is continuing its maturation process, but I don't think we understand all the factors that are involved in what we consider "maturation".

 

I think a 23 year old who has worked since age 12 in a family business (for instance) is going to - often, not always - "appear" to most folks to be "more mature" than a 23 year old who has never had such an opportunity. However, if you scan both their brains, I think that you're still going to see cortical changes occurring in a similar pattern for both of them. I don't think that they've found that cortical maturation patterns are different based on such external stimulii, or experiences, in one's life. They still don't really know how such stimulii affect what we consider to be "maturation".

 

So what I'm flubbering around in trying to say, I guess, is that I definitely think that such external stimulii DO influence maturity and ARE important in helping kids mature, gain a sense of purpose at an earlier age, etc. We've had this conversation before on these boards about providing our kids with real life skills and meaningful experiences as they grow up. Gatto talks about it quite often. We don't yet understand how this impacts brain development - but I think we can see that it certainly does impact it. That's not to say that doing this will change their physical maturation such that it concludes at an earlier age (not in a way we can measure at this time, anyway), but I think it definitely makes a difference in mindset for our kids through their 20's....

 

:iagree: I think there's a tendency to hear those facts (about the brain not maturing until 25) and leap from that to thinking that we shouldn't expect mature behavior from late teens/early twenties. Just because their brains and thought processes are still developing doesn't mean we shouldn't expect increasingly mature behaviors as they grow. It's not like a switch is thrown at 25 and magically they're ready to be a fully functioning, independent adult.

 

It's like saying that kids aren't developmentally ready to read until 5 or 6, so we shouldn't worry with teaching them ABCs, letter sounds, reading to them, etc. until then. Poof--they reach the magic age and they should suddenly be able to read, right?

 

Those developmental years are for teaching and giving them the tools they need to learn and function as adults, and the best teacher is experience. Parents who don't expect their late teen/early twenty aged children to handle increasing responsibility and independence as they grow with the clear goal of being capable to live independently and run a household by the early twenties are doing their kids a huge disservice. You only have to go back 50 or 75 years or so to see that people of that age are perfectly capable of handling independence--it was the norm then. Obviously, it's not going to be perfect--I'm sure all of us had some "sink-or-swim" issues to deal with. But I'm baffled by parents who give their kids everything except responsibility (for anything, even themselves!) and then are mystified when the kids can't/won't/don't even want to move out.

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