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right start math-grrrrrrrrrrr!


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my 7yo and 8yo don't remember anything from last year!!!!!!!!!!!! im so frustrated right now about it. we stopped when they were halfway through their levels...b and c. i've been reviewing strategies and playing games for the past weeks but they just don't get it. i really don't want to start over! but either i do that or switch...am thinking about math u see. i understand it's similar. another thing about right start. it just takes SO LONG! today it took us 2.5 hours to get through three lessons with each lesson requiring a game plus they did review practice sheets. 10 yo is doing ok with the curriculum just starting level E with her. i am concerned that she hasn't done much division now that she is in grade 5. but it looks as if she will get to that eventually this year! what should i do? start over or change? i'm sick of the games and 7yo doesn't really enjoy them though she will play them. 10yo loves the games. 8yo will do whatever i ask. but i have noticed that she doesn't really concentrate on them. so it is only working for 1 of my dc. i also have a kindergartener who needs to begin math soon! what to do? what to do?

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It sounds like RS isn't working well and you should change. I don't mean to bash it, because I know people like it. I've had it, but never really could get into it. If you are sick of the games and the kiddos don't seem to really like them either.......well, it just sounds like a change is in order. I would second you looking into Math Mammoth. I'm also considering it. If you do a search for Math Mammoth here, you'll find a lot of information.....and many of the posts are people asking to compare it to RS. The vast majority who have used both seem to prefer MM much more.

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"vast majority who have used both seem to prefer MM much more"

 

We use RightStart and started MM as well, but my daughter isn't keen on doing math worksheets all by herself. I'd love a break at least one day a week though, so we're going to try it anyway. I'm not sure that blanketing statement is true for all of us. ;)

 

I do agree to switch to a different program if it's not working out for you though!

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"vast majority who have used both seem to prefer MM much more"

 

We use RightStart and started MM as well, but my daughter isn't keen on doing math worksheets all by herself. I'd love a break at least one day a week though, so we're going to try it anyway. I'm not sure that blanketing statement is true for all of us. ;)

 

Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be a "blanketing statement". I have just done soooo much reading on these boards about MM the last few days (my head is spinning!). Most......not all, but most do seem to prefer MM over RS and have indicated that it was a relief to have their math time cut down and their children were enjoying MM. I didn't say that everyone who used RS and tried MM liked MM better. I just said that the majority seem to prefer it much more. But, I'm not including you Satori in this statement. :001_smile:

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RS and MM have very different approaches, and I think that the type that doesn't like independent worksheets wouldn't even consider Math Mammoth. So they're happy to stick with RS. Just saying they're very different, and of course people not liking RS are going to say great things about MM if they like it, in a thread about MM.

 

I've read all the posts too, and I ended up buying MM, but I know it will be a struggle for us. Nonetheless, I'd love if my daughter would end up loving at least one day of independent worksheets!

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RS and MM have very different approaches, and I think that the type that doesn't like independent worksheets wouldn't even consider Math Mammoth. So they're happy to stick with RS. Just saying they're very different, and of course people not liking RS are going to say great things about MM if they like it, in a thread about MM.

 

I've read all the posts too, and I ended up buying MM, but I know it will be a struggle for us. Nonetheless, I'd love if my daughter would end up loving at least one day of independent worksheets!

 

OK. Well, hopefully the OP will get some other suggestions then.

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I will be back later to post more, but please don't feel you have to do a lesson "as scheduled". Break it down into smaller pieces as need.

 

The way RS is laid out, if you do it at ideal pace:

 

1st grade B

2nd grade C

3rd grade D

4th grade E

5th grade Geometry and pre-Algebra

6th grade Geometry and pre-Algebra

7th grade Algebra I ??????? I don't think so!

 

You have plenty of room to take longer.

 

My oldest did:

 

3rd grade B

4th grade C

5th grade D

6th grade E

7th grade Geometry and pre-Algebra (this is where we are now)

8th grade Geometry and pre-Algebra

9th grade Algebra I

 

She is no math person. She is not ahead, but she is not behind either, and she has a solid understanding of math. She tests well and actually scores higher in conceptually than she does with computation. I am a happy and sane mom.

 

All of my younger kids have taken longer to finish levels B and C, in particular. Usually by D we do a lesson in a day. Today, for example, my ds and I only played the game. Now that he knows the game he will play it with his siblings and not with me anymore. When he was younger I used to break out the warm ups, lesson, worksheets and games, doing each on separate days because he was a wiggly book who liked math but only for so long. :D

 

Heather

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If your dc work well on their own you could try Math Mammoth. You could just purchase a few sets and give it a try.

 

I use RS and we love it. My ds is strong in math and I credit that to RS.

 

I suggest *not* spending 2.5 hours on math in a day. Unless of course you're dc beg for more. ;) Set a timer for each lesson and stop when time is up. You can begin the lesson where you left off the next day. After a point your brain shuts down.

 

In K you should spend 10-15 min.

 

For 1st grade I'd do 20 min. For 2nd 20 to 30 min max. For 3rd and above I'd set the timer for 30 to 40 min.

 

They can play games without you. You can also set aside a day for games. For example you can do lessons Mon, Wed, Fri and play games Tue and Thur instead of lessons.

 

Both my boys needed extra time in the lower levels. Many times I would repeat a lesson and work on that topic until he understood. I never moved on until the lesson was learned. Sometimes I'm amazed that if I put math away for a few days, and then do the lesson again, ds has no problem understanding.

 

How long of a break did you take? Were your dc reviewing math during the break?

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I have failed a few times with RS. I've just decided that I can't stand it. It is a pretty different approach to go with Math Mammoth I would definitely switch to something else. The games are so integral to the program and if you don't like them and they aren't helping the retention, then it's not the program for you.

 

Heather

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First I'd like like to thank the op's who mentioned you don't have to do the whole RS lesson in one sitting. I have to keep reminding myself of that!! I try to do a whole lesson in 30 min and if we can't finish, I'm grouchy about it and math ends up taking FOREVER!!! Sigh.

 

I did notice that my ds seemed to not retain subtraction well over the summer w/ RS (he did great with it during the year :confused:) So I decided to add in ........(drum roll please...) Math Mammoth. lol! He does one page at a separate time per day just for reinforcement. I think the two of these complement each other well.

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I did try MM this summer. ALL of them HATED it--I think RS has spoiled them and they couldn't translate from the games to the worksheets! LOL! I feel like with my 7yo she just isn't getting it! I really HATE to go back to the beginning of B but that is really what I need to do. That is why i'm thinking of going with MUS. maybe something fresh? I do know that when we did math last year she loved it and caught on really quickly. Today we were reviewing counting by 5 and she just couldn't do it, even with the abacus! didn't understand even how the abacus works! it's been like that all week this week and last week too! She couldn't remember what makes 10 which is something she had totally MASTERED mid year last year and never batted an eye over it! I really really really don't want to go back and start over....

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my 7yo and 8yo don't remember anything from last year!!!!!!!!!!!! im so frustrated right now about it. we stopped when they were halfway through their levels...b and c.

 

Assuming you still want to try RS:

 

With the 7yo in B I would get him playing the memory games or Go to the Dump daily. At first allow him to use the Abacus then in a month try to wean him of it. Have him play the games with your 8yo as you only have so much time. With C I seem to remember their is some review, so I would go back and look at what is covered and look for lessons that target subtraction and multiplication. Especially try getting him playing a few games with your 10 to get them back into the swing of things.

 

While they have forgotten then should pick it back up more quickly than the first time, so don't loose hope. This can happen with any math program.

 

 

But either i do that or switch...am thinking about math u see. i understand it's similar.

 

I think they are only similar in that they are both mastery based programs. Beyond that my understanding is MUS the child watches videos and uses the rods as the primary hands on. If you have visual learners that probably would work better. If there are hands on learners it comes down to if they like the abacus/games or the rods better. If they are auditory learners....well that is a hard one. Both have auditory elements. The other big issue is MUS has a lot of worksheets compared to RS, so if there is a dislike of worksheets then it probably won't work well. That would go for MM too, as I understand it.

 

i am concerned that she hasn't done much division now that she is in grade 5. but it looks as if she will get to that eventually this year!

 

 

 

Have you potted the multivides yet? Those things rock! They give a lot of practice in long division, IMO. RS recomends doing one a day all year once you get to them, if I remember right. It is easy to forget them though once they are not formally scheduled.

 

what should i do? start over or change? i'm sick of the games and 7yo doesn't really enjoy them though she will play them. 10yo loves the games. 8yo will do whatever i ask. but i have noticed that she doesn't really concentrate on them. so it is only working for 1 of my dc. i also have a kindergartener who needs to begin math soon! what to do? what to do?

 

If you can see they have different learning styles and why another program would work better with their personality and learning style, then I would switch. Because my kids are hands on learners I knew I really didn't have a choice. We had already done Miquon and my kids really didn't like Rods, so MUS was out. That leaves only a couple of other manipulative based programs. Thus I have learned how to make it work. If this had happened here (it doesn't because we hs year around with no more than 2 weeks off in a row), but I would go back and try to do two lessons a day. If they got hung up on a concept then I would camp out on it till they owned it. Both my younger two kids have had to camp out on "seeing" quantities work, and then really slow down when it hit double digit math, then in C (I think) when it starts doing double digit mental math. But if your kids have different learning styles then something else might work better.

 

Do consider having the kids play games with each other as much as possible, my current playing schedules looks like this:

 

Monday: 7th & 5th graders play a game on the 5th grader's level. 4th & 2nd graders play a game on the 2nd grader's level.

Tuesday: 7th, 5th and 4th grader play a game on the 4th grader's level, I play a game with 2nd grader (usually war, or a new game he is learning).

Wednesday: Same as Monday.

Thursday: 7th grader plays a solitaire game at her level (E), 5th and 4th graders play a game on 4th grader's level ©, and I may play an easy game with ds, or we may skip it.

 

My 7th grader is finishing level E, should be done in a couple of weeks. Then will do Geometry and Hands on Equations. My 5th grader is working on D, and will sometime during the year move to E. My 4th grader is finishing up C and will overlap with D for a while. My 2nd grader is on the down hill slide of B but probably will still be Christmas before he is in C.

 

Here what makes it worth it for me, and why I don't worry about being "behind". My 4th grader scored 75 total on her 3rd grade CAT 5 math last year. That means that if you lined up every child who took the test that score tells you where your child fell in line with all the other kids who took it. Only 25% of the kids were above her and 75% were below her. That is despite her not having covered some topics at all. How much better would she have done if she had covered them? She obviously has a good foundation. My 5th grader scored an 89% on her 3rd grade CAT 5. Now she is more methodical and farther ahead in the books so I wasn't surprised that she scored better. My oldest scored an 84% on her 5th grade CAT 5. I personally am pleased as punch with all those scores. It makes it all worth it, KWIM? Especially given none of my kids are math kids.

 

If you take the long term view, give yourself more wiggle room and adjust how you do the games, you might still be able to make it work. In the end though the program that gets done is the best one. If something else would get done more or appeal to your dc's learning style more, then go for a change.

 

Heather

 

p.s. We are required to test here at the end of 3rd, 5th, 8th and 10th grades.

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I agree with Siloam above. The problems with retention do not sound like a program problem, IMO. Honestly, it sounds like there should have been some intermittent review over the summer. I would review and reinforce and then trod forward. In public school, they do spend the first several weeks reviewing. Actually, if you had completed each RS level, the first several chapters of each new level are review too. (Not saying you necessarily should have finished each one, because we didn't finish last year either, just pointing it out.)

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I agree with Siloam above. The problems with retention do not sound like a program problem, IMO. Honestly, it sounds like there should have been some intermittent review over the summer. I would review and reinforce and then trod forward. In public school, they do spend the first several weeks reviewing. Actually, if you had completed each RS level, the first several chapters of each new level are review too. (Not saying you necessarily should have finished each one, because we didn't finish last year either, just pointing it out.)

 

:iagree: I think you could have had the same problem with any program you used if you took a long break for the summer. Another problem is that it sounds like you stopped in the middle of a level. Most programs have review at the beginning of each level to help the kids refresh their memories after summer break. However, RS so not a traditional program, so I'm not even sure it has this type of review at the beginning of the year. I just can't remember.

 

Here, we never take more than a week off from math if we can help it. Even if we just do math once a week over the summer, it makes a tremendous difference.

 

I hope you find something that helps you get back where you want to be as painlessly as possible. I can really understand your frustration and am sure I would feel the same.

 

Lisa

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