Courts Condone Lying

[joannqn]

Did you see this and what do you think of this?

 

There is a federal law that says it is illegal to falsely claim you received a medal from the U.S. military. A California appeals court ruled that the law violated the right to free speech, and hey, these lies don't hurt anyone anyway. Story from our local newspaper here.

 

Agree? Disagree?

 

 

Personally, I disagree with the courts condoning lying in any form.

[Renee in NC]

I am in general against any law that limits what you say. If someone lies and says that they have a medal when they don't, then they are a liar. As despicable as this is, it doesn't equal criminal in my book unless they use at as a way to commit fraud (in which case other laws apply.)

 

I don't see it as the courts condoning lying so much as they are protecting our right to free speech (even if it makes us an idiot!:glare:)

[Tutor]

I heard that on NPR this morning. It's crazy! I'm trying to figure out how this is going to affect currently existing laws on hearsay and libel and where the line will be drawn (if any) between good lying and bad lying. I wonder if people are going to start suing potential employers for not hiring them because of false claims on their resumes since it is their right under the first amendment to make false claims which cannot be used against them?

[Harriet Vane]

:eek:

 

It certainly DOES harm, especially if those lies are used to gain employment or money in some way.

 

I'm flabbergasted. A judgment like that should end that judge's career.

[Renee in NC]

I heard that on NPR this morning. It's crazy! I'm trying to figure out how this is going to affect currently existing laws on hearsay and libel and where the line will be drawn (if any) between good lying and bad lying. I wonder if people are going to start suing potential employers for not hiring them because of false claims on their resumes since it is their right under the first amendment to make false claims which cannot be used against them?

 

Libel and slander are laws against lying about other people that leads to damage to the victim.

 

Employees who lie to employers generally are breaking the employment contract. If you fill out an application, you have to attest that certain things are true. If you just send in a resume, the employer does not have to hire you. Lying employees are not a protected class.

 

Lying about a medal *is* despicable, I just don't see how it is criminal to lie about yourself. What about women who lie about their age? Are we going to make that criminal as well? People who claim to have a degree when they don't? Unless it affects a legal relationship (ie. employer/employee) - it isn't criminal.

[Renee in NC]

:eek:

 

It certainly DOES harm, especially if those lies are used to gain employment or money in some way.

 

I'm flabbergasted. A judgment like that should end that judge's career.

 

Of course (to the bolded part)! In that case, there are already laws that apply. I see it as a slippery slope, but I prefer to have as few laws as possible.

[In The Great White North]

The majority said there's no evidence that such lies harm anybody, and there's no compelling reason for the government to ban such lies.

 

It does harm:

 

1. It cheapens the award for those who legitimately earned them

 

2. It changes decades of established law.

 

The dissenting justice insisted that the majority refused to follow clear Supreme Court precedent that false statements of fact are not entitled to First Amendment protection.

 

3. It harms those who placed more credence in his opinion, based on his having earned the Medal of Honor AS A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL AT AN OFFICIAL MEETING

 

This is not the same as some guy telling his neighbor over the fence that he won the Medal of Honor (which would have been bad enough.) This guy was a water district board member (ie. a government official), discharging his official duties at a public meeting. That's right up there with lying under oath and falsifying an official document.

[Laurie4b]

:eek:

 

It certainly DOES harm, especially if those lies are used to gain employment or money in some way.

 

.

 

Such as employment as an elected politician

[Harriet Vane]

It does harm:

 

1. It cheapens the award for those who legitimately earned them

 

2. It changes decades of established law.

 

 

 

3. It harms those who placed more credence in his opinion, based on his having earned the Medal of Honor AS A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL AT AN OFFICIAL MEETING

 

This is not the same as some guy telling his neighbor over the fence that he won the Medal of Honor (which would have been bad enough.) This guy was a water district board member (ie. a government official), discharging his official duties at a public meeting. That's right up there with lying under oath and falsifying an official document.

 

:iagree: Well said.