Tree House Academy Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I am just past my ability to get this figured out on my own. My younger son is very much a "dawdling" type and when it comes to math, we struggle. When I say "struggle," I don't mean he can't do it, I mean him doing it is TORTURE for both of us! He is pretty good at addition. He "gets" telling time, counting money, and he can even use a number line to do subtraction. HOWEVER, subtraction is lost on him without the "crutches." He can't remember when to count up, when to count down, and sometimes how to do it at all. We are currently doing CLE (which I love BTW and have really tried not to switch because I know that it is giving my older son, "who is mathy," a wonderful math foundation)...but I am starting to think it just isn't right for my younger child. He is not mathematically inclined in the least. He can read at a 4th grade or above level and is smart as can be...just not "mathy." Today, we are on day 3 back from summer break and he couldn't remember place value at all. He missed odd and even number exercises, and lost 9 points because he couldn't find the number that came between 35 and 45. *sigh* I feel like I need to remediate, but WHAT? And with what curriculum?? I have thought about MUS, but I hate how it doesn't teach other things and just focuses on one thing at a time. I wonder sometimes if I just can't "teach" math well at this level. It is like what I am saying is just not "clicking" with him. Please, someone send me to that magical place that will make this all better. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 This sounds to me like he is learning by memorization rather than by learning concepts. I would recommend considering a switch to a program that emphasizes the big picture and that initially teaches concepts over procedures. RightStart does this well--especially at the first grade level. Singapore is wonderful for grades 2-6. (I have not used Math Mammoth, but it may be similar.) For either of these programs, it is very important that the student become adept at doing calculations mentally before paper and pencil algorithms are introduced and this reinforces the concept of place value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homeschooling6 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I'm wondering if Saxon Math would work with cementing those facts. I know many people can't stand it but I have a friend who has used it with six of her dc (she would have used it with the two oldest but it wasn't around yet;)) and is very happy with it. I want to use it too but already purchased three levels of McRuffy Math three months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) I have a similar child here! Right now MM is on sale somewhere...there was a thread :( Sorry I'm not much help! But they have some place value worksheets, subtraction, and other things! I'll go look for the link and post it if I find it! Found it! http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203197&highlight=math+mammoth Edited August 16, 2010 by simka2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Get the Right Start abacus and the Activities for the AL Abacus book. Let him practice doing subtraction using the abacus until he visualize the "trading" in his mind. Using the abacus isn't a "crutch" but rather a tool that helps cement the concept until it becomes automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted August 16, 2010 Author Share Posted August 16, 2010 Get the Right Start abacus and the Activities for the AL Abacus book. Let him practice doing subtraction using the abacus until he visualize the "trading" in his mind. Using the abacus isn't a "crutch" but rather a tool that helps cement the concept until it becomes automatic. Are you suggesting doing this along with RS math or just in addition to CLE? Thank you all for the help, keep it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Have you Read Knowing and Teaching Elementary Math by La Ping Ma? It explained to me why my dd and I struggled so much in math that should have been so simple. The first section covers all the information that a child needs to understand in order to understand subtration with "borrowing." It is one of those topics that I have seen numerous homeschoolers fail when teaching. It is one of the first areas in which our grand ideas of teaching and perfect math curriculum meet an imperfect understanding of how to actually teach math. Anywho. My advice is to please don't change math programs or add to your math until you understand what he is missing. I'm seasoned enough to have failed teaching Pre-calc and borrowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I wonder if R&S would be a good fit for him? My son uses R&S and my daughter uses CLE. I'd love to switch my son to the workbook format of CLE but it is very clear to me that there is not enough practice on new concepts for him to succeed. There is also an oral drill component to R&S that I feel is very helpful in solidifying things with my son. The teacher book has wonderful lesson plans and sometimes I use them and sometimes I don't depending on how much help I think he needs with a new concept. I will also say that both of my children use a math fact software program to solidify those facts in addition to the drill and practice they get in R&S and CLE. I think that it is really key for them to get those facts down. My son used the software every day since kindergarten (including summers) and is just this year (5th grade) dropping down to using it 2 days a week. My daughter is following the same path. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 My 12yo loses concepts if she drops a subject for more than 2 weeks. When she was 5yo, I learned that we couldn't take a break of more than one week without losing months of progress. She really HATED having to relearn things. By 10yo, we could take breaks of up to 2 weeks without her losing what she'd already learned, but we couldn't go any longer than 2 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheryl in SoCal Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Well, we had the same problem after many years of Horizons and a year of Saxon our magic curriculum was MUS, LOL. I am using MM and MUS together (MUS my core) with my middle child and have been really liking it. With MM being so inexpensive (Curriclick has it on sale) I'd probably buy the Light Blue Series and start at the beginning, maybe skipping some of the things her does really understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Are you suggesting doing this along with RS math or just in addition to CLE? I don't think you need the full RS curriculum if it's just a few topics that need remediation. I would get the abacus and the Activities book and either take a break from CLE to work on subtraction or continue doing CLE during your regular math time and then a separate "catch up" session focusing on subtraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disney Dreaming Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 My 2nd grade dd is very much like your son. We tried A Beka, Saxon(we finished this one) and Horizons last year. I had read some posts on another site about BJU so I decided to give it a try. We are on lesson 14 and I really like it. It seems so much easier teaching this curriculum. Dd and I were having daily arguments about doing math but she seems to enjoy this math program a little more. It is pricey, but so far I say it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 My 12yo loses concepts if she drops a subject for more than 2 weeks. When she was 5yo, I learned that we couldn't take a break of more than one week without losing months of progress. She really HATED having to relearn things. By 10yo, we could take breaks of up to 2 weeks without her losing what she'd already learned, but we couldn't go any longer than 2 weeks. This is true for my son as well. We never take more than a week off of math. I think I remember SWB recommending that most children should not take more than a week off of math at a time. Even in the summer, we do math and the kids read for 30 minutes and I try to have them write a letter here and there. Otherwise, I swear my son would forget how to write. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryr Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I would encourage you to look at System Math at systemath.com. Watch one of the demo videos. You may be completely under-awed but I'm telling you this guy works! Our daughters have been watching the videos since the 6th grade and it has done wonders. The man, (Paul I think), explains things so you really get the concept. In fact as I watch the videos I am learning the whys behind math that I never knew before! No wonder I have had a hard time figuring out how to teach math all these years. I'm not sure what grade your soon is in. I know that he doesn't have videos for the real young set, but I would highly encourage you~ or anyone~ to consider this program as your kids progress. I am coming from having used Saxon, Abeka, Singapore, BobJones (briefly), Keys to, etc.... It really is a great program. No bells no whistles. mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 We are in the same boat going into 3rd grade. We added an abacus and it seems to be helping so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveBaby Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Are you suggesting doing this along with RS math or just in addition to CLE? Thank you all for the help, keep it coming! I think the abacus could be done easily alongside CLE. No need to actually switch programs! Mr. Demme on MUS explained things in a way that my DD finally "got" what was going on. I didn't think elementary math was that hard until I had to explain it to my youngsters! For some reason, Mr. Demme got through to them in a way that I wasn't able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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