Is there a Christian history program like this? (TOG users plz chime in)

[Annabel Lee]

I'm looking for World History, American History, or a program that does both simultaneously or combined. I want there to be at least an attempt at historical accuracy, but w/ missionary & saint biographies throughout time, woven into the main narrative thread; the main presentation. I don't want it as a side dish; another extra book that we don't really have time for tagged onto an already heavy schedule.

 

I want the weekly schedule to be able to be done like the SOTW or grammar stage history 3-day schedule as laid out in TWTM: Read the meat of the history presentation, narrate/illustrate, maps/globes, optional projects/movies, optional additional history books, biographies, and literature books from/about that time/place/people. I want there to be a main history reading that could stand alone if that's all we have time for that includes *real* history but also Christian (church/lives of saints & missionaries) history. I want to be able to do it in 60 - 80 min. MAX. per day, 3 days a week.

 

I've done WP. Too disjointed chronologically and schedule is too heavy; I tweak it to death. I don't want to do SL, it doesn't sound like me. I love SOTW but would love to not have to add things to include more Christian history; same with WTM logic stage history. I've already tried BF; it's a no-go.

 

TOG looks like it has the content I want but could I squish it ("it" meaning just the history/lit/worldview; not art, etc.) into my desired timeframe? Do you think TOG fits the bill for the content I'm looking for? After all the time & resources spent pulling together my own thing, I don't think planning from TOG's pre-planned framework could be any harder. Perhaps I'm naive in saying that; I've never used it.

 

I was considering either TOG or WTM history (with my own church/Christian history additions) for next year ('11-'12) anyhow. Which would be easier? I'm just looking for an out before I keep reinventing the wheel here. :D

 

Sorry for being so longwinded, and thanks if you read this far!

[dhudson]

Have you looked at MFW (My Father's World)?

[Annabel Lee]

I've looked at the MFW site & catalog but haven't done any in-depth research, like checking their spines or other books out from the library to review. I don't know why MFW always slips my mind!

 

Do you think MFW fits what I'm looking for? If so, what aspects of my wish list does it match up with best, and which does it fall short of?

Thanks!

[Annabel Lee]

I looked at ECC and CtG closely online again. We have a "fiddle around" year this year before we begin the 4-yr. cycle again when my oldest son is in 5th (because that's the "right" grade to begin a new 4-yr. cycle :tongue_smilie:). I get burned out thinking of all the planning for our American History this year. I like how much Bible there is in MFW, but is there enough just plain history? I believe the Bible is history, but I mean all the other stuff that happened in between some of the Bible topics or peripheral topics such as ancient China, ancient Japan, etc. that the Bible doesn't include much of or at all.

 

Would it be worth doing MFW for the 4-yr. cycle only and only using it for history/Bible/lit, with maybe their art & music if they line up chronologically? (It looks like they do).

 

I guess it's time for me to start figuring it out. I need to get out my TOG samples. Any TOG users want to chime in? :bigear:

[specialmama]

Sounds like TOG would be a perfect fit. It is as tweakable as you want it to be and contains everything you're looking for... plus AMAZING Teacher Notes.

[Momma H]

MFW has great history. It really sounds like it fits the bill that you are looking for. It is doable and fun too. I would write a bunch more but today is our first day back to school so I better focus on that. Check out the sample day on the website. Each level of history just gets better and better!

[Annabel Lee]

Sounds like TOG would be a perfect fit. It is as tweakable as you want it to be and contains everything you're looking for... plus AMAZING Teacher Notes.

 

I've got a sample of Yr 2 TOG and really like it. My sons will be 5th and 3rd grades when I'd begin TOG though; and my then-5th grader might not be up to Dialectic level for very many things, if any, until 6th grade. I see from my TOG sample that church history & worldview aren't touched on as much for LG & UG - is that right? Please correct me if I'm wrong, as this is an important point for me. Are the D level church hist./worldview selections too advanced to use as read-alouds for LG & UG? Too much to use as independent reading for UG?

 

I like the looks of TOG the most at this point, for the teacher's notes, the discussion questions & discussion outlines, etc. Are these aspects utilized in the UG level?

 

 

ETA: If I were to order the print versions (not now, next year), would there be anything that I have to rely on internet connection for? Our only ISP is patchy and unreliable, so I try to stay away from anything that I would *need* it regularly for.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Annabel Lee

[johnandtinagilbert]

Sounds like TOG using History Core and Church History would fit the bill for you. Cores are not too much reading and the Church history is full of bibliographies. It's very squishible :)

[Donna T.]

Have you considered Heart of Dakota? Sounds very much like what you desire except history is read everyday, though you could certainly squish it all you want! The younger children focus on American History, then there is a one year overview of World History, and then a four year stretch of World History. Right now, only two of those four years are written and available for purchase but the author will be releasing a guide each year until completion and then one year of a geography/world cultures that will bridge into high school.

 

I love it. Love it. The author does an incrediable job weaving history and literature together.

 

Creation to Christ -

http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for-him-packages.php

 

Resurrection to Reformation -

http://www.heartofdakota.com/rtr_hearts-for-him-packages.php

 

these two are the most recent additions to their product line and will give you an idea of where they are going with the four year history study.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Donna T.

[BlsdMama]

Sounds like TOG would be a perfect fit. It is as tweakable as you want it to be and contains everything you're looking for... plus AMAZING Teacher Notes.

 

From someone who has used TOG, then sold it later (in the second year) to go back to tweaking history herself, and then RE-BOUGHT Tapestry this week... Go Tapestry of Grace.

 

I sold it four weeks ago. And I spent 3.5 weeks of that thinking, "Kelly, you're an idiot." Thankfully we were able to remedy that. :D

 

Yes, Tapestry is what you're looking for to combine it all.

[siloam]

The great thing about TOG is you are given so much to play with. Now you do have to be someone who can say no to perfectly good stuff.

 

If you stick to the history readings (ignore the in-depth) and do the worldview readings (which is where you find the missionary/saint biographies). Ignore the rest if you want, you are in control!

 

The one thing to be aware of is if you want to use say SOTW that at times the schedule will be really heavy and some weeks it will be light. You just learn to adjust it. TOG arranged the weekly workload according to their main choices. They add the alternate list for those attached to specific titles, but it throws off the reading load sometimes. I really was used to tweaking everything, so I am not bothered by it. Some weeks we spend 2 weeks in, some only a couple of days, I just adjust the rest of the work accordingly.

 

That said to really know if it will work for you, the best thing to do is to give the three week sample a try.

 

Heather

[Annabel Lee]

Now you do have to be someone who can say no to perfectly good stuff...That said to really know if it will work for you, the best thing to do is to give the three week sample a try.

 

 

I can say no to things on a schedule, and I can tweak. Sometimes it's hard to see on paper how long all the reading or all the extras will really take. I'm getting the hang of it, so by next fall I should know how to do it more efficiently. I am hoping it will take more of the planning out of my hands. I know ppl here talk about planning TOG, & it's samples say you have to plan it. I imagine that like picking & choosing your way through WP, since that's a pre-planned curric. I've used.

 

About just using the samples - *sigh* I know, I guess that's why they give out the samples, so people will USE them.

 

I am hoping for something out there with enough of the planning done that it ends up being less work than what I'm doing now. I'm working from a framework of WP, Guesthollow, and anything from WTM that applies to Am. Hist. and adding church history and tweaking it all into WTM-style, all while trying not to overload the kids and utilize the library as much as possible instead of buying books, and it even involves alot more checking around than it sounds like. :nopity:hehehe OK, so I make it sound worse than it is... maybe. Is TOG easier to use than that? Please say yes. lol

[Michelle My Bell]

:iagree:

Sounds like TOG would be a perfect fit. It is as tweakable as you want it to be and contains everything you're looking for... plus AMAZING Teacher Notes.

[M&M]

Yes, TOG is absolutely easier than what you are doing.

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm looking for World History, American History, or a program that does both simultaneously or combined. I want there to be at least an attempt at historical accuracy, but w/ missionary & saint biographies throughout time, woven into the main narrative thread; the main presentation. I don't want it as a side dish; another extra book that we don't really have time for tagged onto an already heavy schedule.

 

I want the weekly schedule to be able to be done like the SOTW or grammar stage history 3-day schedule as laid out in TWTM: Read the meat of the history presentation, narrate/illustrate, maps/globes, optional projects/movies, optional additional history books, biographies, and literature books from/about that time/place/people. I want there to be a main history reading that could stand alone if that's all we have time for that includes *real* history but also Christian (church/lives of saints & missionaries) history. I want to be able to do it in 60 - 80 min. MAX. per day, 3 days a week.

Heart of Dakota. Notice that there are options as to which package you buy, so that you don't have to have a bunch of required additional reading.

[Pongo]

I used TOG for 3 years. Loved it at times, and hated it at times...lol

Although we had a roller coaster ride relationship, it's a wonderful solid program. The problem for us was, I am a tweaker(I said it:)). I found my self switching out some of the books to many times, for VP, SL Greenleaf press etc. I disliked the prep time, and trust me by the third year my prep time was down to about 35 minutes a week. That included reading the teachers notes, making sure the maps, questions were printed out, books were assigned and crafts were ready.

So on a whim, I ordered Biblioplan (BP). It's simple, meaning virtually NO prep. The authors of BP admittedly picks it books from popular lists so that was done for me. Such as, books from, SL, Veritas, Greenleaf and more. It also schedules MANY of the Dave and Neta Jackson Trailblazer, a bunch of missionary books, SOTW and MOH.

I get my packet from BP. I go to Staples, copy 3 sets of maps, 3 sets of questions, copy the timeline pieces onto white sticky paper. I put my books in-order and I am done. My weekly prep consist of reading a couple of Parent Companion pages (10 minutes). Done. We do it 3x a week as scheduled it takes about 30 minutes to do. I LOVE it. I thought it was too simple, and I held off doing it for years. We are doing Year 4 this year. I have time to add if I want, I don't feel guilty for skipping stuff because it is a spine for me.

I was a huge TOG supporter, I have some of my childrens work in it (The Geography overlays) it's a great curriculum but, if you are a tweaker, it's REALLY hard not to add to an already over-the-top meaty curricumum.

[Donna A.]

I am hoping for something out there with enough of the planning done that it ends up being less work than what I'm doing now. I'm working from a framework of WP, Guesthollow, and anything from WTM that applies to Am. Hist. and adding church history and tweaking it all into WTM-style, all while trying not to overload the kids and utilize the library as much as possible instead of buying books, and it even involves alot more checking around than it sounds like. :nopity:hehehe OK, so I make it sound worse than it is... maybe. Is TOG easier to use than that? Please say yes. lol

 

I encourage you to take a closer look at MFW. Really. It's all planned out for you, laid out nicely in a week-at-a-glance format so you can tweak and rearrange as needed (or just go right down the grid each day, whatever works for you), look at the teacher's notes where appropriate, use the extensive Book Basket list as desired from the library (or just purchase a few extra titles for your home library, depending on your preference and budget), and run with it. Church history, related biographies, etc. are all included, either as part of the weekly scheduled lessons (which is what you see on the website), or as part of Book Basket (which is very flexible). There are approximately 300-400 titles from all reading levels and genres, as well as topic-related videos on the booklist.

 

Go to the website and print out all the sample lessons of each year of MFW and read through them in order, from ECC through 1850-Modern. That will be somewhat helpful for you to see the whole plan. Not entirely, but somewhat. Call them and ask lots of questions. Spend time browsing through the Archives and Ideas forums.

 

I'm not sure what you're doing for science, but you can either do the science that's scheduled in MFW, or buy the history and Bible components individually and do your own thing for science.

 

I like the idea of TOG, I really do. I came *thisclose* to switching to TOG at one point, but decided I like the layout of MFW much better. (Same with HOD; I don't care for all those boxes on the daily 2-page spread. My brain thinks in "week at a time" mode, even for grocery shopping. :tongue_smilie: ) Plus the MFW manuals (excluding K and 1st grade) don't have nearly as much flipping back and forth as the other program manuals do.

[Donna A.]

Oh, and while MFW has their lessons spread throughout the week in short spurts a la CM style, you could easily group them together in three longer timeframes the way you want. I've done that before on busy weeks, and may have to do it again this coming year because we've got a packed schedule ahead of us.

 

Book Basket and the music CDs are great for "on the road" time. :)

[specialmama]

I can say no to things on a schedule, and I can tweak. Sometimes it's hard to see on paper how long all the reading or all the extras will really take. I'm getting the hang of it, so by next fall I should know how to do it more efficiently. I am hoping it will take more of the planning out of my hands. I know ppl here talk about planning TOG, & it's samples say you have to plan it. I imagine that like picking & choosing your way through WP, since that's a pre-planned curric. I've used.

 

About just using the samples - *sigh* I know, I guess that's why they give out the samples, so people will USE them.

 

I am hoping for something out there with enough of the planning done that it ends up being less work than what I'm doing now. I'm working from a framework of WP, Guesthollow, and anything from WTM that applies to Am. Hist. and adding church history and tweaking it all into WTM-style, all while trying not to overload the kids and utilize the library as much as possible instead of buying books, and it even involves alot more checking around than it sounds like. :nopity:hehehe OK, so I make it sound worse than it is... maybe. Is TOG easier to use than that? Please say yes. lol

 

YES, TOG is easier to use than this. Honestly, you can plan as much as you want, and you can also fly by the seat of your pants as much as want. There are weeks where I do not plan. Those weeks I can assign the books and SAPS and that's that. :lol: If we want more then we read some of the Teacher Notes together. If you're doing discussions (D & R level) then you can fly by some of those by looking at it for the first time as you discuss. Although that is not how it is designed to be used and it really will work better if you can spare a few hours leading up to discussion... but it CAN be done, I have done it myself and survived the guilt of not delivering an entire 6-course meal, but a quick overview of the menu. If you have the kind of personality that can handle that, but also enjoy really getting into it when time and life allow, then you'll really love TOG.

[siloam]

Well I re-do everything too. Start out with SL and re-wrote it, then did WP and re-wrote it, then add TQ, and eventually switched to TOG. I love TOG for all the pieces it gives me, but I still mess with it a lot. In my case it is often due to the fact that I have specific series that I like that aren't always scheduled, like MOH or Guerber.

 

I do know people who don't really plan at all. They use the main resources, have the kids read history on Monday, Worldview on Tuesday, do mapping on Wednesday, a project on Thursday and then writing on Friday. If you use TOG that way it is pretty open and go, just print out the student pages and the maps. You can even let the student choose the activity from the student pages.

 

TOG can be easier, but it really comes down to how you use it. I had almost a whole quarter planned in a couple of days. Now let me explain, that was choosing what books to use, breaking them into daily pieces and listing it all in my spreadsheet. I also like to look up all the books read the reviews. I am working on year 1, 1st quarter right now. I am just about finished, when I decided I wanted to go in MOH order instead of TOG. (If you want to know why ask and I will explain.) I spend another day re-arranging it, then peeked ahead and saw they had Usborne books scheduled for both LG and UG when covering Greeks. Ugh! Usborne books are not my thing. One is fine two is too much. After a discussion with my oldest, she told me she didn't like the other spine used for Egyptians either, so now I will spend another day scheduling in Guerber for her. I make everything complicated, the problem is me.

 

So why do I use TOG, why not just make my own thing? A couple of reasons. First being I do use their literature and mapping recommendations, so those are two big pieces taken care of. Next I love the teacher notes that let me go deeper, and last the discussion. Yes I do have to modify it, sometimes doing more of a lecture because the books I use don't cover a point, but we still can use it and I don't have to make it up as I go.

 

My problem is I get a picture in my mind of exactly what I want, then make whatever I am using fit it. TOG is just flexible enough to allow me to contort it into all sort of different things than it was created for with minimal effort. :D

 

If you are like me you will tweak anything, including TOG. But TOG makes it pretty easy. If you really are ready for something easier, I think TOG will do what you are looking for pretty easily, with room to tweak, I mean grow. ;)

 

Heather

[Annabel Lee]

LOL, Heather, we have alot in common. I too know what I like and don't like; what I want out of a curriculum. If it's not there, I sub., I add, I go half'n'half combining between 2 (or 3...) different ones. I don't know how to schedule that far ahead in 1 day though! That's impressive.

 

I am *so* done with what I've gotten myself into it's not funny. It's not even September for crying out loud. I've got a year of this left! It's hard to choose between which books to schedule when I'm relying on the library and would have to check them all out to do so. I've thought about doing that but breaking it down to 2 weeks at a time to schedule in advance, then turn them back in & pick up the next stack right away and keep going until the year is (finally!) planned. I'm planning while we've already started; I'm only about 2 weeks ahead of where we actually are on the schedule. This is the American History all in 1 year (well, 52 weeks) that I'm talking about. I'll learn to simplify and streamline as the weeks go by.

 

Donna, I can work with a daily 2-page spread, a weekly 1 page or 2 page... anything. Right now I've got my scrawly longhand that was written at O'Dark:Thirty (even harder to read), with additional notes, arrows, aterisks, and highlighting in various colors. Also there are the Guesthollow weekly schedule pages with 3 colors of highlighter circling things I intend to do in varying levels of priority and the WP schedule page which is marked, noted, and highlighted beyond recognition. LOL I can fly by the seat of my pants too, so it sounds/looks like TOG shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

After trying to simplify some LA issues in our homeschool I realized TOG's writing & literature exercises address some of this. By piecing things together myself I'm concerned the kids might miss some little thing. I thought of similes and realized we hadn't covered them. Oh the horror (j/k). I really don't want to get to 12th grade, though, and find alot of these little gaps. TOG would help (maybe not guarantee - I know they aren't a whole LA program) with this.

 

I like how TOG adheres closely to classical methods. I'm not sure if I could teach my kids how to make those kinds of connections w/o hand-holding. But, their Yr 2 sample has 2 main books listed that I really don't want to use as main books for opposite reasons (not getting into that either, as I believe it's been thoroughly hashed out on this forum previously). Heather's idea of subbing books out sounds like a good solution to this. Maybe TOG included them on purpose for their opposing viewpoints to stir discussion. I'll call and ask.

 

Fay, I looked at Biblioplan a couple years ago and thought it looked like too much. Now that I've a little more experience under my belt to know what "enough" looks like on a schedule, I'll look at it again. 30 min. a day sounds amazing, esp. if you're covering "real" history and Christian history together. That would leave time for lots of extras w/o overwhelming anyone.

 

Lovedtodeath, I've never looked closely at HOD. Guess it's time to. I also didn't see the printable sample pages at MFW... off to find those too.

 

I've got a year to decide on what to use for ancients next year (thank goodness!) - hopefully we'll stick w/ the same thing for all 4 years (for ease of use) but I'm not glued to that idea. Thank you all for the input and I'll be checking out all of these thoroughly as time allows. Have you ever wished there was a way to have all of them in your hands, and their accompanying books too, in order to decide? hehe Money is an object here so that's not going to happen.

 

You know what'll be funny? If I end up back where I started, which is plain WTM history w/ more church history added. I'm just afraid it's going to feel like massive overload, coming apart at the seams, like I feel now. Maybe it's not so complicated. Note to self: add "reread WTM logic stage history" to to-do list. :)

Edited August 19, 2010 by Annabel Lee

[Lovedtodeath]

I am *so* done with what I've gotten myself into it's not funny. It's not even September for crying out loud. I've got a year of this left! It's hard to choose between which books to schedule when I'm relying on the library and would have to check them all out to do so.

Loving HOD. There is no need to drop or schedule anything and it is affordable to buy all of the books. :D

[mymonkeybug]

Have you thought of looking into a program like Truthquest History or Mystery of History? They are History guides more so than a full curriculum and you supplement them with living books and classics which they provide a spine list for. You can also add in your own things from places like Greenleaf, Memoria Press, and other places.

 

Also, KONOS has History packages that look nice, never used them myself, but they do look well put together.

 

Just a thought.

[Donna A.]

You know what'll be funny? If I end up back where I started, which is plain WTM history w/ more church history added. I'm just afraid it's going to feel like massive overload, coming apart at the seams, like I feel now. Maybe it's not so complicated. Note to self: add "reread WTM logic stage history" to to-do list. :)

 

:lol: Sometimes I think I might as well do this, too, but it freaks me out. I tend to do better having a starting point (manual) that I can chop up, mark up, color in, eat it for breakfast, or whatever I want to do with it. In the end, it may not look much like how it started, but it's MINE. ;)

[siloam]

LOL, Heather, we have alot in common. I too know what I like and don't like; what I want out of a curriculum. If it's not there, I sub., I add, I go half'n'half combining between 2 (or 3...) different ones. I don't know how to schedule that far ahead in 1 day though! That's impressive.

I like scheduling history, so it might not be as impressive as it sounds. Not only that but I love seeing where we are going. Thus I had already figured out how MOH works into TOG while watching TV at night. I also had already bought all the spines that I was interested in so I had them in hand. It is much easier to plan when you have the books. I don't have all of them, but the ones that I break into daily reading portions I do. Even with the switch to Guerber I had already started scheduling it into TOG using the TOC back when I was originally planning to use it. Basically I started my planning about a year ahead of time. This is stuff that we will probably finally get to in January. All the really hard work was done. All I needed to do was pull everything I already had and decide which books each child should read, how to break down page numbers in our group reading, and which crafts/activities to do on what days. Then type it all up in a daily schedule.

 

Plus I have been using TOG for several years and I know where everything is. When I first started using it I used it very simply and was discovering new parts for 6 months. :D

 

Heather

[MerryAtHope]

I'd look at Mystery of History. There are 3 readings per week, the history is integrated with Bible and Church History, and there is mapwork, timeline work, and activities you can choose from as you have time. They also have book suggestions, or you can get Illuminations to have it all scheduled out for you (www.brightideaspress.com). I use MOH and choose readers & read-alouds from SL and WP and DW & other places.

 

Merry :-)