I'm hating Word Within the Word. Talk to me.

[Cindyg]

I'm supposed to start Word Within the Word tomorrow, but I think I hate it. Can somebody talk me through this?

 

First of all, I have both the regular book (which I bought thinking it was the student book. It's called "The Word Within the Word, Vol. 1") and the Home School Edition (which I bought thinking it was the teacher's edition. It's called "The Word Within the Word Home School Edition, Vol. 1). Do I have the right books?

 

Secondly, we're not using the entire language arts program. I was going to start with Word Within the Word for vocabulary for my 7th grader. We've been studying Latin and Spanish for a long time, and we know lots of roots.

 

Here's my complaint: I open the book to Page 1, and I encounter a list of 25 root words and perhaps 150 vocabulary words. Am I supposed to assign my son to look up the definitions of these 150 words before we proceed to the other activities? He'll die of boredom. This will kill vocab for us.

 

I started looking up all the definitions myself, but that's going to kill vocab for ME. I just don't want to look these up. Especially not after just buying a vocab curriculum.

 

Am I starting wrong? What should I be doing differently?

[EKS]

You have the right books.

 

I fully planned to used all of the books for MCT level 4 with my older son this year. But when I went through WWW, I decided that it just won't work for us. Too many stems per lesson, not enough reinforcement in the program.

 

We will be using Wordly Wise instead. And I'm a major MCT fan.

 

As for the word lists, I don't think you're supposed to have the student look up all of the words. I think they're supposed to figure out the meaning from the stems.

[ChemMommy]

I have this on order. Is it really awful? I'd love to hear how others have tweaked this book to make it work.

[Wildiris]

I feel your pain

 

I've had these books sitting on my shelf for two years because I just couldn't figure them out. I do not plan to use the MCT program, so I was baffled as to how to use these books.

 

I think learning word stems are important. I am going to use the stems, some of the activities, and add Sadlier Oxford vocabulary a grade above. Since we completed spelling, this should not be too heavy a burden. I was going to have DD write the stem list on index cards as a way to memorize the stems. I think the idea is that the student should understand the meaning of an unfamiliar word by knowing the word stem(s) within a word. Knowing the stems is supposed to aide in spelling too. The rest of the lesson can be done orally and discussed (there is some writing).

 

Hope this helps,

Iris

[Snickerdoodle]

I wonder if these books build upon the lower level vocab books? Hopefully someone who has used MCT from the beginning to this level will chime in.

[radiobrain]

I have yet to get that far (starting voyage this year) but from what I understand, that level is the hardest of them all. I am pretty sure that was the first level he wrote. Doesn't the teacher manual give you some guidance? I would think it should. I suggest asking on the yahoo group.

 

Is there a chance you can back up to Caesar's English? You would only need the TM. Those books are insanely great and although my 4/5th grader could do it, it is not beyond a 7th grader.

 

Other than that, maybe that dynamic literacy that some people were swooning over might fit you better. Or the one that has classical and vocabulary in the title (my brain is not finding the right name right now).

 

Good Luck. :D

[Melissa B]

You are only testing the stems (root words.) The vocabulary words are for discussion and to help the student understand the stems. Test 1, for lesson 1, is on page 22 of the home school edition (in my book.) It tests 20 stems.

[Matryoshka]

My current plan is to finish up CEII by October or so, then dive into WWW. I have to admit that my reason for this is less eagerness to get to WWW than eagerness to get to ML, and they are so intertwined that I feel I need to be doing WWW alongside ML. (I think it'd be fairly easy to do WWW sans ML, much harder the other way 'round).

 

My plan is to do WWW and ML more slowly over 1.5-2 years. There are 25 stems in a WWW lesson, so that'll bring it down to a more manageable 12ish a week.

 

I don't think it's intended that the kids look up all those words in the dictionary - as someone else said, they're supposed to intuit the meanings from the roots. I'd think it's intended to be done interactively, with the teacher. The instructions on how to deal with each component, are, in fact, in the Home School Edition (which is indeed a teacher/parent manual), specifically on pp. 3-12. Part of the key is that virtually all of this is supposed to be done interactively, with discussion between student/teacher - it's not a workbook program to hand the kid.

 

Stem Lists - memorize the stems not the example words.

Stem close-up - Exposure to the wide number of words a sample stem can be used in. Also not for memorization.

Sentences - Usage examples for reading aloud. To see how stems can be used to make different words in the context of a sentence.

Analogies - to be solved with open dictionaries - I wouldn't think you'd look up all the words, just the ones you'd need to.

Mystery Spelling (this is in the hs manual) - use knowledge of the stem to spell possibly unfamiliar word.

Mystery Question (also in hs manual) - Asks a question involving a word using one or more stems in the lesson - student has to use knowledge of stems to figure out the answer.

Notes - A closer look at some words using the lesson's stem, where they may be used in interesting or unexpected ways.

Classic Words - a guessing game. Child and parent do this together, and try to figure out which word an author actually used in a sentence. More than one may make sense. This is also in CEII, and we're finding it fun.

Ideas - Thinking about using words made with the lesson's stem in a number of different ways (synthesis, divergence, analysis, evaluation, intuition, emotion, aesthetics, overlap). This would also be done interactively.

Word Creation - Okay, you've got me. The hs manual says there are word creation pages, but I can't find them in the parent or student book - guess I'll have to ask on the MCT list abou this one... the idea, apparently is to give the kids a meaning, and have them come up with a word using the stems they've learned. Good idea, can't find it.

Flip side tests - appaear to start around lesson 21. Gives a sentence and a defintion of a word - child has to come up with word.

Tests - cumulative, one per lesson

 

Flipping through the book, it looks like a lot of lists and it isn't clear what to do with them. Virutally all of this is interactive. As with other elements of MCT, I think it's hard to figure out until you're actually engaged with it. I know many use Quizlet to help the kids practice the stems - I believe the lists are already entered there.

 

Now, admittedly we haven't started this yet, but I'm somewhat looking forward to it.

[Cindyg]

OK. I think I know what I need to do. I'll post back in a week or so and let you know if I get to liking it. (Let's hope...!)

 

Is there a chance you can back up to Caesar's English?

 

I don't think this WWITW is too hard for us. DS knows a lot of roots already. My gripe is not that it looks too hard.

 

Other than that, maybe that dynamic literacy that some people were swooning over might fit you better. :D

 

Yes, that certainly is tempting. But it moves considerably slower. But the biggest problem is that y'all didn't start swooning over Dynamic Literacy until I had already bought WWITW. :)

 

I don't think it's intended that the kids look up all those words in the dictionary - as someone else said, they're supposed to intuit the meanings from the roots. I'd think it's intended to be done interactively, with the teacher.

 

I guess this is my main problem. MCT (I guess) assumes the teacher will know all those words to be able to discuss them with the student. Sadly, I do not know them all. There's not going to be any discussion until somebody looks up the definitions. :glare:

 

The definitions should be in the TM, which I bought, and they're not. So that's a problem for me, and I would think it's going to be a problem for many others considering this vocabulary program.

 

But I thank you all for your thoughts. I'm going to give it a whirl, and I'll post back after I work it out.

[Beth in SW WA]

Do you have a link for Quizlet? Dd is starting WWtW soon. I have the 2 yellow books. It looks daunting. I hope dd is up to the challenge. We've never done formal vocab before (but have done Latin & Spanish).

[StephanieZ]

Here is a link to the full 750 word WWW 1 list on quizlet.com

 

http://quizlet.com/20653/www-lists-1-30-word-within-the-word-volume-1-yellow-book-flash-cards/

 

If you search "word within word" you'll find zillions of subsets, and you can always create your own using these lists or from scratch.

 

HTH

[Beth in SW WA]

Here is a link to the full 750 word WWW 1 list on quizlet.com

 

http://quizlet.com/20653/www-lists-1-30-word-within-the-word-volume-1-yellow-book-flash-cards/

 

If you search "word within word" you'll find zillions of subsets, and you can always create your own using these lists or from scratch.

 

HTH

 

Awesome!! Thank you!!

Edited August 18, 2010 by Beth in SW WA
typo

[swimmermom3]

I'm supposed to start Word Within the Word tomorrow, but I think I hate it. Can somebody talk me through this?

 

First of all, I have both the regular book (which I bought thinking it was the student book. It's called "The Word Within the Word, Vol. 1") and the Home School Edition (which I bought thinking it was the teacher's edition. It's called "The Word Within the Word Home School Edition, Vol. 1). Do I have the right books?

 

Secondly, we're not using the entire language arts program. I was going to start with Word Within the Word for vocabulary for my 7th grader. We've been studying Latin and Spanish for a long time, and we know lots of roots.

 

Here's my complaint: I open the book to Page 1, and I encounter a list of 25 root words and perhaps 150 vocabulary words. Am I supposed to assign my son to look up the definitions of these 150 words before we proceed to the other activities? He'll die of boredom. This will kill vocab for us.

 

I started looking up all the definitions myself, but that's going to kill vocab for ME. I just don't want to look these up. Especially not after just buying a vocab curriculum.

 

Am I starting wrong? What should I be doing differently?

 

Cindy, be sure to read the instructions and explanations on pp. 1-12 in the Home School Edition if you haven't already. Initially, memorizing 20 stems seemed a bit overwhelming until I realized that many of them are reviews from CE I and II, but that I believe they are presented as part of new words. Our WWW for 7th grade will look something like this:

 

Monday: Go over new list and make index cards for any we don't already have. Do one exercise in one category (ie "synthesis") on Ideas page. Do 2 analogies. Read 2 notes. Answer one mystery question.

 

Tuesday: Read over stem close-up and discuss. Do one exercise in one category (ie "invergence") on Ideas page. Do 2 analogies. Read 2 notes. Answer one mystery question. Review stems.

 

Wednesday: Read over Sentences page. Student should be able to decode meaning. Do one exercise in one category (ie "analysis") on Ideas page. Do 2 analogies. Read 2 notes. Answer two mystery question. Review stems.

 

Thursday: Complete Classic Words page. Do one exercise in two categories (ie "evaluation and intuition") on Ideas page. Do 2 analogies. Read 2 notes. Answer one mystery question. Review stems.

 

Friday: Test

 

I may extend the number of days we spend on a lesson as our review list gets longer. We are using all of the other MCT components again this year so I know the words will get reinforced there as well. For MCT, after we have done a subject for a couple of days or weeks and I have a good feel for the flow, I'll set a time limit and stop when time is up. MCT states that you don't need to do every last question or exercise. HTH! Good luck. If you do end up disliking WWW, the Sadlier-Oxford program WildIris mentioned is very good. My kids all used it for several years before we found MCT.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I responded to your post on the MCT message board.

 

ETA: Here is MCT's reply to your post on the Message Board:

 

"Yes, the entire focus in Word Within the Word is on the stems, on the word construction set that they present. The example words are only provided as illustrations, giving students a sense of the variety of words that can come from a stem. By focusing on the stems, in exact contrast to focusing on lists of words, we wind up teaching students thousands and thousands of words, far beyond what could be in any list. Furthermore, the stems are profoundly interdisciplinary, making students immediately better in every subject. It is the best example of power learning that I know of. Each stem seems to lead, on the average, to a knowledge of fifty words. Beyond that, the stems give kids a sense of the beautiful metaphors and images that hide in words, the micropoems, that we never know from mere dictionary definitions. It is magic content."

Edited August 16, 2010 by The Dragon Academy

[radiobrain]

 

 

 

Yes, that certainly is tempting. But it moves considerably slower. But the biggest problem is that y'all didn't start swooning over Dynamic Literacy until I had already bought WWITW. :)

 

 

 

 

I didn't swoon... other people swooned. :D

 

I will be getting WWW next year.

[annabanana1992]

We have been using WWW for almost a year. We don't even worry about the long list of words. We read through them and may discuss a bit, but we really just focus on the stems. My son enjoys WWW, and we have not found it to be overwhelming. Like all MCT materials, we developed a schedule (like swimmermom), relaxed, and enjoyed it. The material has a richness to it that you will hopefully come to appreciate....

[swimmermom3]

I didn't swoon... other people swooned. :D

 

I will be getting WWW next year.

 

Korin, I haven't even visited the thread. You are all stunned, right?:D Guess I must be a happy MCT customer.

[Cindyg]

I responded to your post on the MCT message board.

 

ETA: Here is MCT's reply to your post on the Message Board:

 

"Yes, the entire focus in Word Within the Word is on the stems, on the word construction set that they present. The example words are only provided as illustrations, giving students a sense of the variety of words that can come from a stem. By focusing on the stems, in exact contrast to focusing on lists of words, we wind up teaching students thousands and thousands of words, far beyond what could be in any list. Furthermore, the stems are profoundly interdisciplinary, making students immediately better in every subject. It is the best example of power learning that I know of. Each stem seems to lead, on the average, to a knowledge of fifty words. Beyond that, the stems give kids a sense of the beautiful metaphors and images that hide in words, the micropoems, that we never know from mere dictionary definitions. It is magic content."

 

Thank you, Miss Dragon Academy. I thought no one answered my plea for help in that yahoo group, which is why I cross posted here. (I normally hate when people do that.) But I had my settings set wrong and didn't see the replies.

 

I'm going to give it a go. I'll post back with the results.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Thank you, Miss Dragon Academy. I thought no one answered my plea for help in that yahoo group, which is why I cross posted here. (I normally hate when people do that.) But I had my settings set wrong and didn't see the replies.

 

I'm going to give it a go. I'll post back with the results.

 

I wondered why you didn't reply to the replies. :D

 

I think you will be very happy with MCT. There are plenty of us who have used it and enjoy MCT's philosophy.

 

 

(BTW - I am such a happy MCTer that I didn't even look at the 'other' thread.)

 

Also - we are beginning WWW2 today. I did the planning this weekend and it is so much more facile than WWW1. I am very happy that we made it through WWW1, though, and I am looking forward to WWW2.

[Kuovonne]

I didn't swoon... other people swooned. :D

 

I will be getting WWW next year.

 

Korin, I haven't even visited the thread. You are all stunned, right?:D Guess I must be a happy MCT customer.

 

I was wondering why no MCT people were visiting the Dynamic Literacy thread. When I finally looked at it, I was seriously underwhelmed compared to MCT. I'm sticking with MCT. On the other hand, some people seem to really like the DL approach; to each their own.

[Cindyg]

I did the planning this weekend and it is so much more facile than WWW1. I am very happy that we made it through WWW1, though, and I am looking forward to WWW2.

 

Fac = make or do. Facile = easy to do. Got it! :)

 

I'm going to go reply to the yahoo thread.

[Mert]

:bigear:

[In The Great White North]

I thought no one answered my plea for help in that yahoo group, which is why I cross posted here. (I normally hate when people do that.)

Please continue to cross-post!

 

I really dislike the Yahoo format so I hardly ever go there (although they do show up in a totally disjointed fashion in my email - enough to whet my interest.) And we'll be starting WWW in a few weeks.

[rafiki]

.

[rafiki]

.

[swimmermom3]

We are seeing the stems from Island in the Town level.

 

With Town level, lessons alternate between introducing stems and vocabulary words.

 

Yes, the books do continue to build on previous years but they can work as stand-alones as well.

[Cindyg]

I promised to report back on how I came to like Word Within the Word.

 

My son and I tried to use this. After the third day, we knew we hated it, so I pulled it out of our school day

 

However, I kept it; and I've been studying through the word list on my own. Several observations:

 

First of all, I love the simple (basic) roots that MCT included and the simple definition he gave each one. For instance, I love that he gave "Pend, hang" instead of "Pendo, Pendere, Pependi, Pensum "to cause to hang down; to weigh." Pondero, Ponderare, Ponderavi, Ponderatum, to 'to weigh'" -- which it is listed in another book I have. I prefer simple.

 

Secondly, I know you guys said just to memorize the roots and only glance over the sample words for each list. That's not going to cut it for me. There's no way you can glance at the word "pandemonium," for example, and understand the significance of the etymology, even if you do know that "pan" means "all."

 

So, my plan is to cover one root a day, five roots a week. That will make Lists 1-6 (150 roots) take a whole year. (We may never finish the book -- there are 20 lists.) But we're going to actually research the etymology of the words in the lists so that we can understand how they relate to the roots.

 

I hate that this work is not included in the book that I bought!!

 

But once I got over that frustration, there's a wonderful, simple word root study in the book. It just waits to be fleshed out.

 

So, we're going to use this but in a very different way than the author intended.

 

Do I recommend it for someone else? Well, I just don't see how it's a meaningful study without the discussion of all those example words. And that discussion is not provided. At all.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Cindyg

[Corraleno]

I was wondering why no MCT people were visiting the Dynamic Literacy thread. When I finally looked at it, I was seriously underwhelmed compared to MCT.

:iagree:

I'm guessing that the format would appeal to people who find MCT difficult to use, but I didn't think the program itself was even close to the level of MCT.

 

Jackie

[Miss Marple]

Admittedly, I cannot claim that the boys are excelling in WWtW1, but I can say that it is stretching them far beyond any other vocabulary program we've used. The tests start getting rather :willy_nilly: around list 5 because it is cumulative. But I find that the cumulative nature is beneficial. We're taking it rather slowly and I'm going to have the boys work through the quizlets (which we have not done previously).

 

We have had a lot of opportunity to practice the stems in our daily conversations. I will often have them take a word apart to figure out its meaning. We also get practice with our chemistry readings (endothermic, etc.). So, while I would say it isn't a favorite program, it is an exceptional one for building vocabulary skills.

 

The books are hard to correlate together. But I think we've finally gotten the hang of it.